Massageislife

BostonTom is a skilled poster, but the "SJW" snipe isn't funny or necessary. Without what rightwingers and "liberals" like Bill Maher dismiss when they dismiss this term is exactly the kind of activism that has made, among many other essential things, gay rights and the safety of websites and gay massage services possible. Know your enemies!

This post is problematic, particularly in the context of m4m massage. What the linked article designates as "enthusiastic consent" may be the ideal for some people--particularly in non-remunerative kinds of sexual exchange (which m4m massage isn't)--but it is not only wrongheaded but a refusal to engage in dialogue to call all other kinds of sexual exchange "wrong" and any form of consent that doesn't involve detailed questions and answers about all aspects of the encounter "coercion," "intimidation," and "assault." One thing that strikes me here (and, honestly, in many of the threads on this forum) is the implicit condemnation of providers and expressions of perceived superiority by many of the clients who post. I've heard just as many complaints from masseurs about clients who grab their dicks or expect sex when that is not agreed to or advertised, as well as clients who don't show up, show up late, or refuse to pay the agreed upon price. Many clients who post on this site gleefully describe what they get away with or how they got escort service for the price of a massage. The disjuncture between the acceptance of these behaviors and attitudes on the behalf of clients and the outrage-more-than-outrage (calling for an unnamed masseur to be publicly shamed, to have his business ruined, even to be reported to the police) suggests a denial about the actual power dynamic at work in m4m massage and the sense of entitlement many of us bring to the scene. It’s not to say that masseurs are angels or victims; they’re people and workers who are more or less good at their jobs. We clients are the ones, however, holding the purse; the ones who get to scroll through pages of (usually younger and better-looking than us) possible masseurs and select the one who suits our fancy; the ones who get to say, "I want this and this kind of intimacy but not that kind or that kind" (Masseurs only have the right of refusal); and the ones who feel free to go on this public forum and ridicule masseurs in every possible way. It all smells of the classic disrespect (to use the mildest word possible) for those who provide the body and sex work that is so valuable to all of us. I've tried to stick to the post that originated this conversation in my comments. That post does not describe a person with a history of abuse (although there might be) that made him vulnerable in particular ways. It does not describe an incident of drugging ("Massage bliss" does not deprive a person of the power to consent). It does not describe being physically overpowered or a fear of being physically overpowered. It does not describe a masseur who ignored an expression of lack of consent (“no means no”). Most of all it DOES describe a context in which a sexual encounter (erotic massage) was requested and agreed to. It describes a masseur who did any number of acts that pleased the client which, apparently, were not cleared in advance (and which were they to be non-consensual, would be sexual assault). The post suggests that the non-verbal refusal of consent (turning the head to the other side) to the offer of oral sex was respected by the masseur. The non-refusal of consent in the non-verbal request to penetrate anally (the brushing of the penis against the ass, while on top of the client) was apparently taken by the masseur to mean consent. The non-refusal of consent once the penetration began was apparently taken by the masseur as affirmation of consent. The value of this thread, for me, is not to trash an anonymous masseur--and especially not to trash the poster--but to discuss the m4m massage experiences we have. The initial post made me thoughtful about my expectations from men who are only in the room with me because I am paying them, about my comfort level around sex generally, and about my relationship to sexual spontaneity, including the use of condoms. Something has seemed not quite right about the perhaps majority opinion on this site that one should be clear in advance about exactly what one expected from the massage. Reading and thinking about this thread has helped me understand that my discomfort with communicating explicit requests to a masseur who has not met me and expecting him to match them is not because I'm excited by the unknown (I actually wish I could always count on certain things in an erotic massage). I think it's because it's dehumanizing to treat a masseur like someone who doesn't have their own sexuality, dignity, or moods. It's my privilege as a client to not only have a strong sense in advance of who and what I'm getting (unless their ad is misleading, in which case I can just walk away) but also to punish them economically if I'm not satisfied (by stiffing them or trashing them on a site like this). In our dehumanizing imagination of masseurs, however, we expect that, sight unseen, we are entitled to require them to do precisely this and precisely not that in the massage. It's why I try to accept the broad parameters of an erotic massage. There are minimum, generally understood things that define a massage as erotic (partial, usually total nudity), mutual touch of some kind, and contact of some sort with the clients ass/penis. Once we meet and--especially the masseur who is getting a look at me for the first time--begin to get a sense of each other, those parameters get specified. Beyond the bare minimum implied by the term "erotic," I have to accept what occurs when they do or don't respond to my signals. Too many of us feel that a couple of hundred bucks entitles us to anything with another human being. I hope every client reading this thread and this forum understands that some erotic massages lead to fucking, which many of us, many times, desire, and that many people fuck without a condom, unless one asks otherwise. I hope every masseur reading this thread understands how attentive he needs to be to a client's signals (and lack of signals), especially regarding something as fraught as anal sex.

Please always post the link

Billy is the best! https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/13043/ https://rentmasseur.com/BodyworkbyBilly

Very interesting thread. Thank you for reviving it! It raises a lot of questions about the massage scene that are nuanced and worth talking through. First, I have to say that it is painful to hear about the incident described in the initial post. The freezing up is an understandable response for someone who is not expecting anal entry, and it is unfortunate that the masseur was not a better reader of what was going on in the client's mind. The poster does not describe anything he did to let the masseur know that the penetration was unwanted, however, so the question is whether an explicit verbal request for penetration followed by verbal or non-verbal consent is always required in advance. For me the context of m4m massage culture is the key to if not answering, at least considering responsibly this question. It's a mistake to quickly conflate what is described in the post with rape involving restraint or threat of harm, rape of drugged or unconscious persons, heterosexual rape (which involves a gender dynamic that has to be taken into consideration), etc. It seems to me that the most thoughtful posts here which designate as rape what the initial poster describes rely on ideas of consent most relevant to date or spousal rape, wherein the issue of consent is complicated by taking place in a setting where the parties have expressed some degree of sexual or romantic interest in each other. If a person in a marriage or dating situation says no to a sexual advance, it is unambiguously sexual assault or rape if the other proceeds. Reading non-verbal cues, however, is a much thornier issue, and, legally, is much harder to prosecute. Lack of cues, including an affirmative one, however, is, I think, what we're discussing, and that is the murkiest area of consent of all. As some have testified to here, many welcome anal penetration during an erotic M4M massage, and a non-verbal cue or even a lack of cues is considered sufficient permission for a masseur to proceed. Many threads in this forum discuss preferences for explicitness in advance versus "playing it by ear" in how far the sexual dimensions of a massage proceed, and I think this issue falls painfully within that difference. Any masseur who doesn't respond to a client indicating that the anal entry is unwelcome is committing sexual assault, but given the complexity of sex work dynamics, penetration that is not objected to either verbally or non-verbally shouldn't be immediately equated with rape. Of course, I hope masseurs reading this will take seriously those, including the original poster, who indicate that they would prefer an explicit request for anal penetration and that even when a client being penetrated doesn't object verbally that checking in that they are okay is advisable. That seems a good idea for all sexual exchanges. I think that it's unfair, however, to describe as a simple rapist an erotic masseur who wrongly reads a client as welcoming anal penetration. Those of us who have specific preferences and boundaries within the highly charged scenario of M4M erotic massage need to communicate those things explicitly. To say this is not the same thing as blaming the victim; it is to recognize the complex, particular communicative structures of gay sex work. I understand, for example, campus codes that require verbal consent in sexual interactions between (in particular heterosexual) students. M4M massage and other types of gay sex work have particularities that should be considered--and are considered in this thread--before we strictly invoke other sexual scenes to describe what happens. I think most of us cherish many of the differences between M4M massage and other forms of sexuality. People have been pretty open in this thread, so I'll say that a masseur penetrated me without a condom without asking. I had sent plenty of non-verbal cues that I was enjoying his hands and then his penis brushing against my asshole, but I was still surprised when his penis went in, without a condom. I had never been fucked without a condom, and the whole thing was disorienting. I wish he had said something like, "I want to fuck you," and had worn a condom, but I didn't say anything. I enjoyed the experience but even if I hadn't, I wouldn't have called him a rapist. He wasn't a particularly empathetic person, but he was responding to the expectations of the sex work context and the non-verbal cues that I was enjoying the things he had done up to that point--none of which he got specific, individual permission to do. Afterwards, I worried about my silence and about the chance that I could have been infected, but I had to own both things and grow from the experience.

Harry and I disagree on John. He's one of my biggest disappointments ever

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=NuVqmzAy%2FKzeC6xvVdVKkoh4l5k2TGxc

Y Nick is a nice and interesting guy and a good masseur. His body looks exactly like his pictures. He massaged me in only boxer shorts and let my hands wander freely (although I stayed away from his privates ☹️ out of respect for his clothing choice). He used an interesting device at the end as part of the HE. It was intense. I've been torn about returning, since the boxers made me self-conscious in what otherwise would have been a relaxed vibe. More importantly, he stopped many times, I think to text, when I was face down.

It is the same guy

I've never seen him. He's good-looking, but I recall deal-breaker things in previous posts

There's a thread about him somewhere, with a very sexy picture of him as a stripper

I've never met him, and I won't. He sounds awful!

Dominik: https://rent.men/DomNiCk

Omar gives a good massage and seems open to extras

"Culture of outrage" seems unnecessarily political (and anti-Left). Everyone got his meaning. I just think there is a lot of good will towards Kenzo--I obviously need to see him!--and no one wanted him to feel anything but a welcoming embrace. Here's a hug, Kenzo: MMMM!

Irony is notoriously tricky figure, since it involves communicating the opposite of what you actually write. (Or does it?)

Jeffrey provided me a good strictly therapeutic massage, but his rentmasseur ad suggested that there were more possibilities. He took his shirt off half way through the massage

He's on Rentmen: https://rent.men/DomNiCk

Thank you for bumping this thread. I wasn't around when it got started. I don't go to spas, so my history and expectations are for private masseurs. I rarely choose therapeutic only masseurs, since m4m massage is a sexual (in the broadest sense) and emotional experience for me. If the masseur explicitly advertises sensual/erotic or charges (as of Aug 2019) $150 or higher per hour, the understanding is that he will be partly or (usually) completely nude, that I will touch their body in some ways, and that they will probably handle my ass and cock. If those conditions aren't met, I feel misled. There's a wide range of possibilities in these three things, however, and that, for me, is where respect for the masseur's desires and limits come into play, as well as the chemistry between us. Most masseurs are good at signaling their boundaries and desires. I have never asked about mutual touch (I think most m4m masseurs in the range I am describing assume most clients would like it) and I believe that not asking has created a more organic experience of mutual touch. I've only had a couple experiences of disappointment. Ah, he is performing a stretch, and when he places my hand on his chest, his waist, or his thigh, I slowly start to carress. My arm is hanging off the side of the table, and he rests a hairy legs against it for me to stroke. And when I flip over, after his hands have been so kind to me, so, so much beautiful body to touch.

Yeah, the only place I ever saw Ivan was at the Adonis naked parties several years ago. Lap dances, etc.

This Daniel is Brazilian (and really nice): https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/36428/

I appreciate the response. I guess that's what always keeps from reaching out to Pasha. There seems to be general agreement that he doesn't get aroused, which isn't ideal, if there is MT, but not a dealbreaker for me. The "shy" or "reserved" description is, however. I don't really understand (not that I have to) that emotional stance in as intimate an endeavor as M4M massage, especially for an experienced masseur as Pasha seems to be.

He looks sufficiently muscular to me!

If that's the case, he doesn't belong on this thread.

People rave about Pasha. Which requirements DOESN'T he meet?