Massageislife

Very interesting thread. Thank you for reviving it! It raises a lot of questions about the massage scene that are nuanced and worth talking through. First, I have to say that it is painful to hear about the incident described in the initial post. The freezing up is an understandable response for someone who is not expecting anal entry, and it is unfortunate that the masseur was not a better reader of what was going on in the client's mind. The poster does not describe anything he did to let the masseur know that the penetration was unwanted, however, so the question is whether an explicit verbal request for penetration followed by verbal or non-verbal consent is always required in advance. For me the context of m4m massage culture is the key to if not answering, at least considering responsibly this question. It's a mistake to quickly conflate what is described in the post with rape involving restraint or threat of harm, rape of drugged or unconscious persons, heterosexual rape (which involves a gender dynamic that has to be taken into consideration), etc. It seems to me that the most thoughtful posts here which designate as rape what the initial poster describes rely on ideas of consent most relevant to date or spousal rape, wherein the issue of consent is complicated by taking place in a setting where the parties have expressed some degree of sexual or romantic interest in each other. If a person in a marriage or dating situation says no to a sexual advance, it is unambiguously sexual assault or rape if the other proceeds. Reading non-verbal cues, however, is a much thornier issue, and, legally, is much harder to prosecute. Lack of cues, including an affirmative one, however, is, I think, what we're discussing, and that is the murkiest area of consent of all. As some have testified to here, many welcome anal penetration during an erotic M4M massage, and a non-verbal cue or even a lack of cues is considered sufficient permission for a masseur to proceed. Many threads in this forum discuss preferences for explicitness in advance versus "playing it by ear" in how far the sexual dimensions of a massage proceed, and I think this issue falls painfully within that difference. Any masseur who doesn't respond to a client indicating that the anal entry is unwelcome is committing sexual assault, but given the complexity of sex work dynamics, penetration that is not objected to either verbally or non-verbally shouldn't be immediately equated with rape. Of course, I hope masseurs reading this will take seriously those, including the original poster, who indicate that they would prefer an explicit request for anal penetration and that even when a client being penetrated doesn't object verbally that checking in that they are okay is advisable. That seems a good idea for all sexual exchanges. I think that it's unfair, however, to describe as a simple rapist an erotic masseur who wrongly reads a client as welcoming anal penetration. Those of us who have specific preferences and boundaries within the highly charged scenario of M4M erotic massage need to communicate those things explicitly. To say this is not the same thing as blaming the victim; it is to recognize the complex, particular communicative structures of gay sex work. I understand, for example, campus codes that require verbal consent in sexual interactions between (in particular heterosexual) students. M4M massage and other types of gay sex work have particularities that should be considered--and are considered in this thread--before we strictly invoke other sexual scenes to describe what happens. I think most of us cherish many of the differences between M4M massage and other forms of sexuality. People have been pretty open in this thread, so I'll say that a masseur penetrated me without a condom without asking. I had sent plenty of non-verbal cues that I was enjoying his hands and then his penis brushing against my asshole, but I was still surprised when his penis went in, without a condom. I had never been fucked without a condom, and the whole thing was disorienting. I wish he had said something like, "I want to fuck you," and had worn a condom, but I didn't say anything. I enjoyed the experience but even if I hadn't, I wouldn't have called him a rapist. He wasn't a particularly empathetic person, but he was responding to the expectations of the sex work context and the non-verbal cues that I was enjoying the things he had done up to that point--none of which he got specific, individual permission to do. Afterwards, I worried about my silence and about the chance that I could have been infected, but I had to own both things and grow from the experience.

Harry and I disagree on John. He's one of my biggest disappointments ever

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=NuVqmzAy%2FKzeC6xvVdVKkoh4l5k2TGxc

Y Nick is a nice and interesting guy and a good masseur. His body looks exactly like his pictures. He massaged me in only boxer shorts and let my hands wander freely (although I stayed away from his privates ☹️ out of respect for his clothing choice). He used an interesting device at the end as part of the HE. It was intense. I've been torn about returning, since the boxers made me self-conscious in what otherwise would have been a relaxed vibe. More importantly, he stopped many times, I think to text, when I was face down.

It is the same guy

I've never seen him. He's good-looking, but I recall deal-breaker things in previous posts

There's a thread about him somewhere, with a very sexy picture of him as a stripper

I've never met him, and I won't. He sounds awful!

Dominik: https://rent.men/DomNiCk

Omar gives a good massage and seems open to extras

"Culture of outrage" seems unnecessarily political (and anti-Left). Everyone got his meaning. I just think there is a lot of good will towards Kenzo--I obviously need to see him!--and no one wanted him to feel anything but a welcoming embrace. Here's a hug, Kenzo: MMMM!

Irony is notoriously tricky figure, since it involves communicating the opposite of what you actually write. (Or does it?)

Jeffrey provided me a good strictly therapeutic massage, but his rentmasseur ad suggested that there were more possibilities. He took his shirt off half way through the massage

He's on Rentmen: https://rent.men/DomNiCk

Thank you for bumping this thread. I wasn't around when it got started. I don't go to spas, so my history and expectations are for private masseurs. I rarely choose therapeutic only masseurs, since m4m massage is a sexual (in the broadest sense) and emotional experience for me. If the masseur explicitly advertises sensual/erotic or charges (as of Aug 2019) $150 or higher per hour, the understanding is that he will be partly or (usually) completely nude, that I will touch their body in some ways, and that they will probably handle my ass and cock. If those conditions aren't met, I feel misled. There's a wide range of possibilities in these three things, however, and that, for me, is where respect for the masseur's desires and limits come into play, as well as the chemistry between us. Most masseurs are good at signaling their boundaries and desires. I have never asked about mutual touch (I think most m4m masseurs in the range I am describing assume most clients would like it) and I believe that not asking has created a more organic experience of mutual touch. I've only had a couple experiences of disappointment. Ah, he is performing a stretch, and when he places my hand on his chest, his waist, or his thigh, I slowly start to carress. My arm is hanging off the side of the table, and he rests a hairy legs against it for me to stroke. And when I flip over, after his hands have been so kind to me, so, so much beautiful body to touch.

Yeah, the only place I ever saw Ivan was at the Adonis naked parties several years ago. Lap dances, etc.

This Daniel is Brazilian (and really nice): https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/36428/

I appreciate the response. I guess that's what always keeps from reaching out to Pasha. There seems to be general agreement that he doesn't get aroused, which isn't ideal, if there is MT, but not a dealbreaker for me. The "shy" or "reserved" description is, however. I don't really understand (not that I have to) that emotional stance in as intimate an endeavor as M4M massage, especially for an experienced masseur as Pasha seems to be.

He looks sufficiently muscular to me!

If that's the case, he doesn't belong on this thread.

People rave about Pasha. Which requirements DOESN'T he meet?

What you describe, Dutchal, is rare, but there are a couple of horned horses out there who, in my experience, meet those criteria. Marco is just great. I like to see him every time he's in town: https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/28055/. Caleb also fits your description, but currently he doesn't seem to be advertising. Ah, you are making me want to get a unicorn massage today...

I seem to remember a fairly negative thread on him: https://rentmasseur.com/Alextravelerxx

It turns out George was out of the country. He got in touch with me, and we got together for an absolutely incredible therapeutic massage. I prefer for there to be sensual/erotic elements, but I will probably go back. It was that good. I didn't get the sense that he was straight, but it didn't matter, given the type of massage it was. Although (sadly) he was fully clothed, he is great looking, the same guy in his modeling pictures. He's nice too.

I'm not sure I understand your answer. My sense was that he didn't provide HE. Did you receive one?