Massageislife

It makes MORE than sense! Thank you for replying to my post!

Evdude, thanks for replying to this post! What situation are you describing? Is this hypothetical masseur someone advertising erotic massage? If so, then he is, I think, advertising that he massages in the nude. I don't think adding YMMV is helpful, unless you suspect that he doesn't get naked with others, despite his advertisement. If a therapeutic masseur gets naked for you, I guess it can be helpful to add YMMV, especially if you got the sense that he didn't ordinarily do this. I don't think it's necessary to add this, though, since others shouldn't be expecting someone they've hired (and paid) for therapeutic massage to get naked.

One of my only frustrations with this site, which is otherwise one of the greatest things I've ever run across on-line, is the confusing way that the phrase, "Your mileage may vary" (YMMV), is used. I don't use this phrase in my own postings because I'm not sure what it conveys to people, but perhaps a discussion might help clarify it. I welcome your input! My own understanding of "YMMV" is that it refers to things, beyond the basic services contracted for, that some clients may experience but others may not. This includes 1) ineffable things that are not possible for a masseur to advertise or guarantee (connection, enthusiasm, etc.) or 2) sexual things beyond what the masseur explicitly advertises: for therapeutic: anything sensual at all; for sensual: anything beyond non-sexual elements that give the body pleasure; for erotic: anything beyond mutual nudity, basic MT, and non-avoidance of the genitals and ass (most of us, I think, also see of HE as part of erotic massage). If we get something beyond what we contract for, perhaps it's appropriate to post something about it, and then, I guess, adding "YMMV" could be additional information. For me, however, there isn't a lot of value in writing "YMMV," since I think all of us understand that our individual interaction with a masseur will be unique in some way. If a therapeutic masseur got naked or an erotic masseur kissed us, I think it's a given that others can't expect the same. (Hope springs eternal though!) What YMMV does NOT mean, however, is that a masseur may offer what he advertises to some clients and not others (or to others for an additional charge), and I hope that we won't use the term that way. I go to this site, in part, to find out if masseurs' ads are honest (i.e., that their pictures are accurate and that they follow through on the services they advertise without upcharge). What I want, in this regard, from my brothers on this site is a warning about masseurs whose ads are dishonest; that is, the pictures are dated or not of them and if, specifically, they advertise and charge for erotic massage but don't follow through or attempt to upcharge for any of its elements. When someone has experienced this kind of "false advertising" with a masseur, I appreciate their posts about it. What is frustrating is when I get the sense that posters are covering up or avoiding the mention of such shortcomings by writing "YMMV." When we know that a masseur is not advertising honestly, I hope that we will let each other know.

There seems to be universal agreement that Rainer is sexy (i.e., looks like his pictures) and does offer an erotic experience (nude, MT, genital/anal contact), so I don't think "YMMV" applies here, but maybe I don't understand what many of us mean by that phrase. I'm going to start a thread.

There's one next Saturday. They're great!

That's annoying. His ad lists sensual and erotic massage at a price of $160. I don't know whether he has raised his price and hasn't changed the ad or is upcharging--which is a deal-breaker for me. It's one reason I don't ask, specifically, for a sensual or erotic experience when I make an initial outreach. He's advertising sensual and erotic massage for $160. Any additional charges means false advertising.

He's a really cute kid, but Newnew was advertising under a different name (Danger!), and, unfortunately, I don't remember what it was. I need to keep better records

Someone take the plunge. He's cute, and there are some provocative hints in there!

Looks like this thread isn't dying anytime soon, so I thought I'd pull back up Sean. His personality is quirky to the point of oddness, but the massage is the best in Hell's Kitchen: deep, with some nice hot stone moments. He performs nude, has a beautiful body, allows MT and is spectacularly sensual throughout. HE seems to be on the table too, if you like. Just a great experience overall

All these guys hav extensive commentary on this site. Have you searched individually?

cpnastro, you're obviously able to do whatever you want. You're continuing to do it. There's a difference, however, between posting a positive experience about a masseur and challenging another poster's experience. There is nothing misleading about what Mark wrote. He described it plainly, and you don't contest it. You weren't there, in any case. Your nitpicking the phase, "stand up," a phrase everyone understands the meaning of, is your putative reason for coming to Max's defense, but he does not need your defense. Our role is not to recruit clients for masseurs.

Yep! They're all three equally valuable elements of the perfect massage experience.

Inkdanaija, thanks for posting on this thread! I don't generally go for masseurs only advertising therapeutic/sensual because I find myself using too much mental and emotional energy wondering where the massage might go because you're right: it sometimes takes off! I'm okay if an erotic massage doesn't go any further than us both being naked, me being able to touch him throughout, and he doesn't avoid my ass and cock altogether, but it almost always goes farther than that.

LookingAround, I'm not sure which of us you are referring to (I'm sure I'm one of them), but you aren't characterizing the issue correctly. I don't hear anyone describing "playing footsie" or "beating around the bush." We don't "secretly" want erotic massage (i.e., both nude, HE). If we reach out with a text, "Hello, my name is X. I saw your ad on rentmasseur and would like to schedule an appointment." Many of us don't want to write, in our initial outreach, that we want a masseur to be nude and provide HE. (No one is criticizing you for doing so.) There are several, non-paranoid reasons for this. Given the legal precariousness of erotic massage, I don't like putting myself and a stranger in an awkward position in our first communications. I also think that asking a masseur one hasn't met to perform naked and jack one off will chase of masseurs who otherwise might do these things. Meeting completely changes the dynamic. Like you, I'm virtually never disappointed, and I use a combination of reading the masseur's ads (he advertises "erotic," he has shirtless or nude photos, and posts an "erotic" rate ($150-160)) and reviewing what my brothers on this site report about their experiences. That is why I'm frustrated by the unusual, defensive/protective treatment of masseurs like the one this thread is devoted to. I'm frankly suspicious that any criticisms of him immediately brings out defenders. People are clearly having mixed experiences with him. I wish we'd leave it at that.

cpnastro, it does come across as an apology, if you say that say that a poster's experience isn't what he says it is (a stand-up). If I hadn't already had a negative experience with Max myself, hearing about Mark's experience would be a deal-breaker for considering him. NYC is too full of attractive, nice, responsible masseurs. I'm glad you had a good experience with Max, and you should post it--and you have now. Hearing about positive experiences are one of the reasons we use this site. Hearing about bad ones is another reason, and I'm concerned when people weigh in in ways that sound like defenses of or advocacy for masseurs. You weren't there and don't challenge the substance of what MarkNY describes, so please let the rest of us do with that information what we will.

cptnastro, there's no need to be an apologist for this behavior. Arriving on time and being told to come back an hour later is a form of being "stood up." Why would one believe that when one returned things would be any different, especially given what you call the "messy" texting?

And hairy he be!

No upcarges for basic erotic service. Maybe the upcharges were for requests beyond the basics?

Onamission, in my journey, there's been a lot more good ones than bad ones. Really only a couple have left me feeling bad about the experience, and all of the we're masseurs advertising erotic who didn't deliver that in any way. And please don't hesitate to make recommendations. I plan on getting out to LA sometime. I have a couple real fantasy guys advertising out there, but I would always prefer one with good guy's seal of approval.

Just966, thank you for posting on this thread. I think you've got some beautiful times ahead of you! I agree with you: if the masseur is advertising and charging for erotic massage, I would like him naked and engaging with me sensually, even in the therapeutic part of the massage.

Sexypee, thank you for posting on this thread! Yeah, treasure a masseur that rims you--or let's you rim him!--it's definitely not something that can be expected as part of an erotic massage. Both do happen sometimes, though!

Onamission, I live in the heart of m4m massage: Manhattan. Maybe that's what made me believe that massage is life! You're as corny as me. Many of these masseurs are miracles: beautiful gay men who can (and probably do) have all the men they want but still give their all to my poor body. Their earnest desire to give me pleasure has made me want to look better, even though I would never become the young, fit man they'd pick up in a bar. Most of all, I aspire to be their best client, which doesn't just mean tipping them very well (which I do) but treating them with respect and making sure they know how much of gift, a miracle, it is that they give to me.

Dear Sam, thanks for posting on this thread! Wow, I long for ads like that. There are a few masseurs currently who are pretty explicit about their services on rentmasseur, but their actual delivery has unfortunately been pretty debunked by posters on this site. I agree with your list of erotic basics. The majority of my erotic massages went beyond those three in one way or another. Strangely, oral (performed on me) has almost never happened. The reverse (performing on them), kissing, massaging them, and fucking even have happened more often. I guess my dick doesn't look tasty.

Dear Terp, thanks for posting on this thread. Sadly, we all know that younger and "hotter" guys get more on the table and everywhere. My question, however, is what is the minimal we, no matter what we look like, can expect from a massage advertised as erotic. More than wanting to hear how many extras a specific masseur gave a poster, what I really want from my brothers on this site is a heads-up from them on masseurs who advertise and charge for erotic massage but don't follow through, based on their "chemistry" with the client.

Dear Aeikaryoko, thank you for posting on this thread; the longer the better! Your comments are useful to me, at the very least! I really appreciate your openness. The courtesy you describe--I aspire to be that client--accounts, I think, for the generally positive outcomes you've had. In my experience, most masseurs have pride in their work and the particular ways they do things. It's one reason why I'm hesitant to ask for specifics before we've met. Most of them give the services their ads say they will but on their own terms and in concert with the chemistry we have. As for your description of sensual massage, I'm reluctant to hire a masseur who doesn't list "erotic" as one of their massage types, since I'm afraid they won't be nude, allow MT, and/or stay away from my cock and balls. Some of the responses in this thread, however, indicate that I may be misunderstanding what "sensual" implies. Your descriptions of "sensual" and "erotic" pretty much track with mine, though. And I agree: DIY release is for masturbation at home and nowhere else!