studchaser

I have come to face facts there is heavy denialism in many factions of the LGBT community. Transgender women genuinely believe they are real women when they are not and will never be and gay men genuinely in their hearts of hearts believe there are nothing to those stereotypes. Now it doesnt mean every gay man fits the stereotype but I will say a good majority of out gay men are identifiable as gay men to onlookers even if not walking hand in hand with another man. Its like a gaslighting brand of denialism. In large metros where gays congregate they are every bit of the stereotype and then some. 
All those """yaaaas bitch" ,"you betta work bitch", "fierce honey",etc etc. Just jump on the subway in NY and you will see it all exhibited. I am sure going to a pride parade will confirm everything i say( someone tell me cuz ill never be there). The same ppl who think there are no differences are the same ppl who prob thought they were fooling ppl in the closet when like other posters said ppl know who most the gays are from school days even if they dont talk about it. How would they have known?

Riiiiiiiite!!!!!!!

As is often quoted and is true:  All stereotypes are based in some truth.
Does everyone from any group NEED to follow the stereotype ? NO. But do stereotypes come from commonality within the group ? YES

Benji,
Do you believe someone is a racist for not liking Black men or Asian men?  Alot of Black lives matter types are Jim Crow in the bedroom. They like what they like and dont give two fuks. 
I can say this if good looks matter to you or cok size is  the pinnacle then you will find other gay men will wok just fine. However if you are looking for that Rob Gronkowski dumb jock,Mike Tyson/50 cent bad ass type, etc you have a slim to none chance of inding it outside the straight community and its just how things are. The vibes are just different. Sonme ppl dont see it,dont wanna see it or pretrnd they dont. Those that do cant pretend and cant be shamed outta of it. 
 
Some will call it loathing,internal homophobia or...fill in the blanks. It probably doesnt matter one bit to them because for them sex is only sex if its with a certain type. After lusting after Brian Bosworth,The Rock,John Cena, Joe Manganiello ,Gronk there is no turning back. If you could meet with god like creatures of that caliber(maybe without the fame) with the attitude to match do you think anyone on earth could tell you anything? 
 

Benji,
Do you believe someone is a racist for not liking Black men or Asian men?  Alot of Black lives matter types are Jim Crow in the bedroom. They like what they like and dont give two fuks. 
I can say this if good looks matter to you or cok size is  the pinnacle then you will find other gay men will wok just fine. However if you are looking for that Rob Gronkowski dumb jock,Mike Tyson/50 cent bad ass type, etc you have a slim to none chance of inding it outside the straight community and its just how things are. The vibes are just different. Sonme ppl dont see it,dont wanna see it or pretrnd they dont. Those that do cant pretend and cant be shamed outta of it. 
 
Some will call it loathing,internal homophobia or...fill in the blanks. It probably doesnt matter one bit to them because for them sex is only sex if its with a certain type. After lusting after Brian Bosworth,The Rock,John Cena, Joe Manganiello ,Gronk there is no turning back. If you could meet with god like creatures of that caliber(maybe without the fame) with the attitude to match do you think anyone on earth could tell you anything? 
 

I don't dress like Rip or Liberace, don't speak like Paul or CNR, and I don't have any interest in Barb, Liz or Judy. But I am proudly gay. Stereotypes are what you are presenting.

straight-acting? I thought we (as gay men) had advanced beyond this stereotype. 

I was saw it on Will and Grace where Sean Hayes character finds out he has a son and is teaching him the important things in life and says those lines "Barbra liza judy beth these are bames i shabt forget". I assume its Bett Midler. 

Barbra Liza Judy Beth
Those are names I shan't forget.
You are out of touch BottomBesr it would be all Beyonce and Lady Gaga now. 
 
 
 
 

What "self loathing " ?  People are attracted to who they are attracted to.
You can't apply modern social justice theory to sexual attraction.
Sexual attraction doesn't spend time thinking about what's "fair" or equal.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-022-01332-y

When I was in High School, ( 1980s) nobody talked about being gay. But everyone knew who was gay. It's not that difficult.
What you couldn't pick out were the bisexuals.

Some would say this entire hobby is "self-serving and commerce-related". 

Many Gay men get their panties in a bunch when they hear that though. How dare you not like other gay men? You see it on this very board. The bottom line is if masculinity is your thing then straight men are the epitome of that both on average and in the extreme. 

Many Gay men get their panties in a bunch when they hear that though. How dare you not like other gay men? You see it on this very board. The bottom line is if masculinity is your thing then straight men are the epitome of that both on average and in the extreme. 

I don't find this controversial at all. In fact, it makes COMPLETE SENSE!!!!

Going to say something controversial.Some gay men ONLY deal with straight men.t
There are alot of gay providers who know this and try to take advantage by misrepresenting themselves. A world renowned chef is likely to buy brand specific ingredients for most of their dishes they make, similarly there is a nuance to straight men I find is just rarely duplicated. Whether its the dumb jock type like Rob Gronkowski or the hypermasculine bad boy type. 
When gay men are inquiring with other gay men they need to make sure the other is masculine. You wouldnt go to a sports bar and need to ask that question or anywhere where straight men are known to congregate. 
For some the imprinting of their earlier years never goes away. The prize is the captain of the football team or wrestlibg team. Or the badass who hops on their motorcycle after a bar fight. There needs to be something else than it just being a good looking guy. For those not afflicted with that butden they have it easy they can just get aroused by alot more offerings and the others unfortunately just can't 

You would make an amazing fiction writer.

I see both but how is it relevant?

I see both but how is it relevant?

Does anyome consider them a guilty pleasure? Im talking about the lean ones. I have found the dollar goes much farther with them and many are not as rowdy and conservative behind closed doors. Alot of their job situations are super volatile i.e. coalmines oilfiekds etc etc. A whole town revolves around one industry and if things change entire towns can go unemployed. I have lucked out in virginia west va kentucky and west pa. Anyone with similar experiences?

Jamie. I think this is from an era where paradigms were much different. Nowadays I woukd agree men hanging out in parks and bathrooms probably would be reliably labeled as gay. However maybe the culture of those times were that working class straight men knew you could make a quick buck at the park with a "fairy" if your baby is home hungry and crying. Some of that culture is present still only difference is alot more misappropriation and cosplaying that causes the cynics to believe they are all gay and pretending. The experts know how to tell the difference.
 
Warning: Do not try to evaluate on your own. Seek the counsel of an experienced straight whisperer.

Because for you sex is about a physical activity standard. Trust me for guys who seek out straight men exclusively it can get deeper than any physical act can provide.

studchaser. i dont quite understand your reasoning for our modern definition of straight. Gifford's "mindset" was not exclusive or a minority thought of gifford's alone. according to gifford, EVERY gay thought this way. a sort of inherent norm of the "elegants" was to only have sex with straight men. this completed and justified the mental and physical circuit of the gays so to speak. no other gay would be able to fulfill that. think of how much of a "sisterhood" of sorts this would allow towards other gay men. your friends were just that. true friends. no cat fighting, bitchy, manipulative cockblocking going on as it does today to jockey a date or a sexual romp. gays lived their lives with getting sex when needed by random men that totally fulfilled their definitions and needs of the male during sex. and went on with their lives. their "relationships" truly became relationships with their friends.
looking back at my life i sort of lived this lifestyle without knowing of gifford and his ilk. it was inherent. i ran successful businesses for many years with my focus on those businesses. when i wanted sex i usually hired "straight" men as i was drawn to their mannerisms, masculinity and quite honestly their muscular bodies. sex for sex sake, shake hands and go on with my life. it worked well. i dabbled with relationships a few times. when i saw the desire of  gay men to so openly want to cheat, have three ways etc, as if the partner was not good enough to fulfill the sexual needs solely of the gay  i bowed out of the relationships and went on my way. im sure there were many monogamous men at the time but i as well felt that boring. i didnt want to stay home and watch t.v. on a friday night! i was in my early 30's, hot as hell and i wanted the attention that i got on a daily basis in the gay community.
i felt that being true to this way of sexual life was mine and mine alone. and as long as i didnt hurt another life i was good. i understood monogamy as a parallel to a relationship...end stop. my mother was a virgin to my father till the day she died. a religious woman that went to church weekly and had faith and virtue imbedded in every facet of her life. were there some bad times in my parents relationship? sure thing. she could have left my father many times...and probably should have. but her faith and virtue towards her matrimonial vows meant something to her. a trait i highly admire still to this day.
i mean if there is a revolving door of men coming and going in a committed relationship then is it a true relationship per my parents definition? i think not. what it really is is a deep friendship bonded together towards stability and security. hmmm... isnt this what our dear friend gifford was all about. stability within relationships with  friends and going freely to have sex whereever and whenever for sex sake. maybe modern gay "relationships" are really more in tune with the days of old than many gays think.
 

very interesting documentary about being gay in the 1930"s in london. around the 7 minute mark, Gifford was talking about having sex with straight men. he was asked by a "bit of trade" he paid for sex, usually being a working class man or a soldier "why dont you go home with jim, your friend? he is quite elegant." his reply sums it all up here. he said (paraphrasing) "oh dear no. we want real men. we never go home with anyone one of our own. thats like having sex with your sister". Gifford stated it would be absolutely impossible to have sex with another gay man. he wanted "the real thing or nothing".
so it seems quite natural from the start of queer life that gay men were a sisterhood of sorts but only looked at straight men as masculine and attractive enough for having sex with.
now yap all you want on here guys but this instinct seems to be the cornerstone for the gay ideology that so many bitter at this thought process on here call "self loathing". i for one understand Gifford's point perfectly as to the true masculinity of the straight man. hmmmm..... must have been a lot of self loathing like our friend Gifford going around in the 1930's eh?

I think the bigger issue here is that many men don’t want the “gay”, or “homosexual” label. And I understand why. 
People want to have sex without labels, and I completely agree with that.
But since we live in a world where people are defined by gender, race, and sexual orientation, one has to simply “own their shit”.
You can call yourself “non-binary” , and desire to live a gender-less life, but don’t be mad at the world for obviously seeing the body parts and genitals that clearly define your gender and accidentally acknowledging you as such.
Being a homosexual isn’t easy either. It’s filled with world-renowned hate, based on religion, laws, personal biases and other factors that makes being a homosexual very hard; so I understand why someone wouldn’t want to be a homosexual. But trying to “cop” out of it, by simply verbalizing that you are straight, when you love every metaphysical aspect of another man, and are actively participating in homosexual acts, is just flat out contradictory. 
 
And as it should be obvious from my photo, I’m black. Being black is rough. It’s rough in business, in academia, in general aspects of society, in the LGBT world, and sometimes even in this forum. But I’m not going to wake up tomorrow, and tell the world “I’m white”, and expect people to acknowledge and respect by “self-definition”, just because I said so. 
 
That’s simply ridiculous to me.