LivingnLA

You guys are scary sometimes. Said with love.

I have no direct experience of him, but he seems familiar for some reason. He has an established presence online using kirktylerx, as mentioned on his rm page. There's twitter, instagram, and only fans. He claims to be in amateur porn, so maybe I've seen him in something.

@crazyivan thanks for replying. People often have preferences around condoms and lube. Make sure whatever you bring is what the escort likes. Even if the escort says they'll bring supplies, you should have some too. You don't want to be about to fuck and suddenly discover no condoms or lube. Regarding condoms, know your risks and make your choices. Oral without condoms is risky because of chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis. Infected men are often asymptomatic, especially if they have a throat or rectal colony which won't show up in blood or urine STI tests. Only swabs will discover them.

@former lurker offers great advice above. I strongly prefer meeting in public for an initial meeting, but that's because my first time was not a good experience and he'd been well reviewed. Only you know what you're comfortable with and how you want to handle things. Since you're meeting at a hotel, does the room have a safe? You may want to strongly consider having all your personal valuables in the safe, excluding an envelope with the payment in the bathroom or another discreet location.

If you're going to have a drink or something, don't get drunk. Being relaxed is okay, but you want to be sober enough to be aware of your surroundings and what's going on. Do not accept drinks you do not watch being made. I was slipped "something to help me relax." I was blacked out for 7 hours. I doubt that'll happen to you, but I mention it because it can and does happen. Also, if you are bottoming, know how to safely clean yourself and make sure he wears a condom unless you've explicitly agreed to bareback. If he pulls out, you'll want to touch his cock to make sure he didn't slip off the condom. It's called stealthing and some guys are into it. Again, I doubt this will happen especially since you mentioned he's well reviewed on Daddy's, but I'm covering the bases so you know the risks.

I'm sorry you're going through all of this @Gar1eth. It really sounds like the two of you are not compatible. The communication divergence is significant and without communication a relationship will not survive. Please think about your expectations and whether you really want to try and make this work because it seems like you will have to significantly shift your actions and thoughts to make anything work with this guy. Do you want to do that to yourself?

"Tantric massage" like American yoga has little historical basis beyond western cultural appropriation of some ideas from Indian philosophies. The "sacred intimacy" stuff is interesting regardless of any made up history. A decent session would take a couple hours to cover everything.

https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/article/tantra-and-the-west

http://www.sutrajournal.com/a-hippie-in-bhairavas-clothing-the-dangers-of-cultural-appropriation-by-christopher-wallis

@crazyivan, welcome to the forum! @azdr0710 provided some good links.

Have you been tested? Have you been vaccinated? Have you considered PrEP? Do you have condoms and lube? Have you communicated your interests and established the ground rules? How did you find this escort? How do you know they're real and trustworthy? Where are you meeting? Have you planned for your safety?

Sorry for the barrage of questions but the answers to these and many others is how you make sure you're informed and prepared for a great experience for you and the escort. My first experience wasn't great, but it was very educational. When I was ready for the next experience, I found an amazing guy who made it memorable. Good luck. I hope you have a safe hot time!

I think part of the reason is because gays have been discriminated against for so long as well, collectively a stereotype and reality exists to have their own clique exclusionary to others that ends up being 1950's -ish. I once was in Puerto Vallarta on a trip there with a client I had an semi long term arrangement with during the holidays. It just so happens all of San Francisco gay scene basically migrates there for the holidays as well. At dinner one night the conversation with another gay couple visiting turned so derogatory and insensitive towards trans individuals from the couples end...I am so happy that I am a happy drunk and the wine mellowed me out and numbed me to the nonsense and disgusting things I heard. I am pansexual and never have "came out"...I live my life though as openly being a freak...so whether your male, female, trans, cis, bi, straight, gay....if I feel an attraction towards you I am going to make that known...whether on a sexual level, emotional level, or both. But, I have never felt a need to come out, or moreover a want to come out particularly because of how prejudice and judgmental the gay male community and 'scene' can be at times.

Thanks for sharing. We are all human and every human has prejudices and bigotries. They're based on our cognitive biases and a lifetime of experiences and how it all fits in a society's social hierarchy. "Punching down" to feel better is a thing. My wife and I have a pretty diverse friend group because we wanted our kids exposed to as much diversity as possible. It's led to some weird experiences because the gay male couples in our social circles frequently are very politically and socially conservative with some challenging bigotries. We've never confronted them, but we have had very complex conversations with our kids after a dinner party or birthday party where they overheard something upsetting. The most important lesson we've tried to teach is the value of awareness because awareness enables us to respond and react in a more compassionate humane ways. Now I wonder if we should chat with some of these people, in private over a good glass of wine. I'm uncomfortable with how our polite silence may be mistaken for support.

https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/11/13/rise-gay-bigot

https://www.un.org/development/desa/dspd/2018/02/prejudice-and-discrimination/

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but does anyone have any opinions about how differences in height can either enhance or detract from an experience? Im not asking about a person's preference for taller or shorter, but more about the 'mechanical' implications. Are things generally better when two people are the same height? Are there advantages or challenges when one is 5-foot-6 and the other is 6-foot-5? For those who find that kissing is important during the activities I imagine height differences can affect how things 'line up' so to speak... and I fully realize I am revealing profound ignorance by even asking ?.

It depends. If you hire a well regarded professional, they are well versed in making the most of their assets to deliver a memorable experience. And sometimes we don't know what's going to be fun until we're actually doing it. Open minds help, but logistically speaking, some things simply aren't physically possible. For example, a client like me, well over 6' and weighing over 200lbs shouldn't expect to be carried around like an ingenue by every 5'5" guy who's 130lbs. If that were a fantasy I wanted to explore, I'd find a 5'5" wiry physique model who could easily toss around 200+ pounds and have some great fun.

What do you want to do? What are you physical stats? Communicate your fantasies and stats to the professional you're talking to so they can help create the fantasy or tell you what they can't do or better yet, suggest alternatives that you might enjoy.

Whoever they are, maybe they monitor this forum or something because that ad was gone in ninety minutes of this post. Impressive.

Wild means different things to different people. It's best to ask the escort what wild means to them. I suggest sharing some of your wild and asking if anything you mention is beyond them.

Had appointment last night with a guy from rentmen. His ad showed a pretty stunning physique.

 

When I got to his place he opened the door topless. He still looked good, but not nearly as good as in his ad.

 

I felt too bad to leave even though I was disappointed and got an ok massage.

 

Would I have been wrong to have left immediately without paying?

Yes, you would be stealing the service. If you don't like the person who opens the door, say so and walk away.

that also happens among clients, 8" is not what it used to be...

8" is still eight inches. Some guys just measure from their asshole.

Well not really. It's scary. If you are going to be close to someone, then it's a risk you have to take. I'm assuming if he knew he had been exposed, he would have told me. I'm sure the same thing goes for him. With the fact that asymptomatic people can spread the disease, every meeting is a crapshoot. There's just no way to know. [emphasis added]

Respectfully, like with STIs, it's important to not assume. Having an open discussion about where you're coming from and where they're coming from is an important way to gauge compatibility as well as risk. It's all about proactive communication, enthusiastic consent, and recognition of the shared responsibily for each other's health.

I've been with bisexual escorts -Andrew Justice for example-and probably some escorts who were g4pay although as much as I could I tried to avoid those guys. And I've been with guys who came out late and were previously married. And I'm sure I've been with some true bisexuals or guys still married to women. But I won't deny it weirds me out.

 

However I think the true answer on how much it will bother me is how "into him" I get. After all the majority of the people I've met on the apps to have sex with-I've known I wasn't their only partner. It's just I normally expect their other partners to be men and not women. So even if we became routine 'buds' -unless we had an agreement of exclusivity I wouldn't expect to be his one and only. If I felt I was falling deeply into like-or love, then his polyamory nature is going to bother me more.

All of that sounds reasonable to me. If you are serious about a relationship, I suggest looking into some of the writing about monogamists who have relationships with polygamists. Most of what's out there is from a hetero perspective, but the fundamental human psychology often still applies to same sex relationships. You may also want to look at research around bisexuality and polyamory. For example, this article about bisexuals tending to be more comfortable with polyamory compared to heterosexual and homosexual identified people. Though, plenty of bisexuals are monogamously oriented too.

1. How old is he? We're roughly the same age.

 

2. Not a Great Communicator? I'd say this goes beyond that to maybe being a bit too self-centered-or something. After all he said he was interested. And later events have borne that out. But to first contact someone in February, Then he doesn't follow-up until May? He's a nice guy. And I'll admit I'm not always the best at following up on things either. But unless he becomes more reliable, there's no way anything more than a casual f-buddy relationship is possible.

 

3. I'm fairly sure text is not a foreign concept to him. For some reason it just doesn't seem to register that sending a text apologizing for not texting earlier. Then not responding to a reply to that is really irksome.

 

Gman

Good points. Since he's your age, those communication issues are definitely yellow flags for anything beyond f-buddy, which you already know. I'd say relax and enjoy the unknown. See where it goes as life happens.

One thing I'd like to get some viewpoints on from our community here. This guy is bisexual. He says that with woman he has to be attracted to them physically. With men he has to be attracted to more to personality. For those of you who are bisexual or have dated bisexuals, I'm wondering if this is a common preference or idiosyncratic to this guy.

@Gar1eth, congratulations on the date. As I've said before, life goes on, even during a pandemic. I presume both of you discussed this extensively since you know the time you spent together, especially the necking, exchanged many droplets. If either of you were infected, the probability is high that both of you are now.

Regarding bisexuality, I identify as bisexual and even after many years of study, it's still an endlessly interesting topic for me because of the diversity of human interests. I have heard many answers from many bisexual people over the years about "why they're bi" or "what they're attracted to" because many monosexuals seem to struggle with the inherent complexity in bisexuality. Human sexuality is very complicated, even when we're discussing a heteo or homo rmonosexual.

Like identity, I would take him at his word about his attractions and go from there. I tend to be more into emotional relationships with women and physical relationships with men, but really it boils down to intelligence and personality for me, regardless of their physical attributes. Gender expression tends to strongly influence my level of attraction.

You mentioned polyamory, are you okay with him having multiple lovers? That strikes me as a more complex potential area of conflict for many people. If he's into you and you're into each other, go for it! Have fun and make sure both of you communicate clearly and regularly so there are no misunderstandings. Relationships are complicated, adding layers greatly increases the complexity, so communicate and explore together.

Funny you should ask. I do have one.

 

So to recap-this guy has never been a great communicator. I think he said he was first interested in getting together in February. He sent like two texts in February. Then basically went silent and didn't respond back to several texts I made until May. I didn't text him constantly or anything. But I probably sent him a couple of texts in March and April because I thought he was cute. And he had expressed an interest.

 

So he finally answered back in May, and we met. Then again pretty much radio silence even right after the meeting when I texted him that I had a nice time.

 

That's what made me think he wasn't that interested. But not being sure....

 

 

The Day After I texted him basic "hope your having a good day"

 

No response.

 

2 Days After-I text another Good Day Wish.

 

Yes, I know it sounds desperate. But it really irks me when I get ghosted. It may hurt to hear/read something unpleasant. But I hate things being nebulous.

 

3 Days After -I for a change didn't text. And he texts me saying "Good Morning,

 

I reply back. But he doesn't respond.

 

4 Days After-- He again texts out of the blue -says he wants to go out once things open up. I give a suggestion or two. He says "let's talk tomorrow"

 

That would have been yesterday. But I didn't hear from him.

 

My interpretation-

 

He likes me. He really likes me at least a little. He wants to do stuff-even outside the bedroom. But apparently is horrible at the follow-thru.

 

Gman

How old is he? It sounds like he's a very relaxed communicator and you should like a high touch communicator. You'll probably want to dial it way down if you don't want to spook him off.

He's been around LA for awhile. I've been curious about him, but there's something that makes me hesitate and I don't know why. Here's an older thread about him: https://m4m-forum.org/threads/bde-brad-los-angeles.145386/

Growing up in a military medical family, we were very casual about the human body. So much so, that my dad walked around the house in less than polite company would expect. I was the kid with Zeig Mal! (Show Me! in English) and the teen with Dr. Westheimer's first book. I was sexually active early but I was responsible compared to peers. It made for some unusual experiences in high school. I'll never forget standing in the locker room after practice with my team captain asking if the rumors were true. He'd just broken up with his girl after a fight about how bad he was in bed. She and I briefly dated the previous year. Discreetly checking out his body while he asked his questions made me realize I was sexually attracted to guys in a different but no less powerful way than my attraction to women.

All of this assumes they are already following all standard cleaning, sanitizing, and disinfection procedures for laundry and everything exposed during the session. It isn't primarily about surface contact, not if current research is right. The main way this blood disease appears to spread is respiratory droplets. Any time a human being is next to another human being, especially indoors, they are exchanging respiratory droplets if they're talking, singing, yelling, or even deep breathing. Two of those are done regularly in massage. Coughing and sneezing create many droplets with high velocity so the spread is greater. Add in duration, and the number of droplets exchanged goes up rapidly. The estimates I've seen suggest being in close proximity (within 6 feet) for 10-15 minutes is sufficient to transmit enough virus particles for infection. That's why some places limit sessions to 30 minutes because decent cloth masks reduce droplet transmission by 50-75% or better, which means 20-30 minutes is a reasonable time limit for some therapeutic benefit with reasonable risk. Beyond that, HEPA filtration per room is a good way to reduce transmission risk more. Another alternative is an outdoor space, so long as there's a breeze, transmission risk would be even lower.

I'm trying to think whether there is anyone who doesn't know I'm gay ? No, I don't think so.

They were actually close to a vaccine on SARS, but stopped because the virus stopped spreading in the population and there was no longer any need - so they couldn't ethically continue human trials with no gain to be had and unknown risk. And there are animal vaccines for different coronaviruses.

Yes, except the "close" SARS vaccine wasn't very effective in animals. Personally, I still remain cautiously optimistic, but we'll know more later this year. I hope they succeed. We really need a vaccine to return to some semblance of normal.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/will-there-be-a-coronavirus-vaccine-maybe-not.html

This post is too depressing. I know we're all hoping/praying for a vaccine to come out that will allow us to return to normal behaviors. But one of the things I remember reading last week in all the tributes about Larry Kramer is that AIDS has been with us since the 1980's and there is still is no vaccine for that and we all demanded that science buckle down and make it happen (for over 30 years). We act as though a vaccine will appear because, well, just because. It's our god-given right to expect such things, right? Not so, friends. It doesn't really work that way. My prediction is by the Fall (Christmas at the latest) people will be getting tired of social distancing-mask wearing, etc., and throw caution to the wind and start "taking a chance on love," however you define that.

Life is what it is and we just get to live it. There are very effective treatments now which enable people who can afford them, to live with HIV. And those same treatments have enabled a prophylactic for those who don't want to catch HIV. Those are vastly more profitable than a vaccine, which is part of why treatments are prioritized. Vaccines are often harder too. We've never successfully created a vaccine for any coronavirus. They're tricky. I have hope for a couple of the current vaccine candidates, but I won't be surprised if they ultimately fail. If we can get decent treatments, life will go on.

I am a big fan of some degree of transparency because it promotes accountability. The issues about power imbalance related to information are complex. Brin explores many issues in his writing around transparency. So, in theory, I support information sharing that promotes safety and doesn't compromise discretion. That's the tricky part. How do we do that?

I know I sound like a broken record that repeats--and yes I know many of y'all don't know what a record is because it's ancient tech, bear with this ol' fart--but I return to what brought me to this forum in the first place years ago. I'd researched for a long time and thought I found the right highly reviewed escort for my first time. I could've died, was likely raped, and had a couple grand stolen. I made mistakes in that situation, but I survived and I shared my story because I wanted to make sure no one else was hurt. I received multiple private messages from people who had similar or concerning situations with that escort, who'd apparently developed a drug addiction. Don't bother asking me about him now. He apparently went to jail for something else, got clean, and is hopefully living a better life now.

How do we protect each other from such situations? It doesn't help to publicly blame and shame. But, how do we warn each other? How do we teach each other about situational awareness, listening to our guts, and more to keep ourselves safe in this hobby? If that's the kind of site being discussed, I'm all for it. If it's a directory of truly criminal or dangerous people, I'm open to something like it. But, if it's a site to out clients or shame them for being "time wasters" or whatever, I'm not a fan. This is a customer service high touch business. "Flakes" are part of the business.

Massage is a high risk event. It includes close physical proximity, breath work, talking, physical contact, and extended duration in a typically small room. Leading experts in the field are suggesting masks are a must on everyone, talking must be minimized, strict cleaning and disinfecting of everything must be done between clients, new linens and supplies between clients, and the room must be completely aired out between clients. All of that just reduces the risk. There's no way to eliminate all of the risk given the nature of massage.

Remember, just like STIs, the risk isn't necessarily the person you're directly interacting with at the moment. It's all of the people they've interacted with during the previous week or two. Additionally, if you are engaging in any unprotected sexual contact, it's important to know that the coronavirus has been detected in saliva, semen, and feces. We don't know if the viral dose is enough for infection, but the possibility exists. So unprotected sexual contact may spread the coronavirus. Life is full of risk. Be informed. Know your risks. Be mature enough to discuss them with whoever you're interacting with and make your choice.

The closest I've ever come was a family contractor renovating a bathroom for us years ago. It was a father and his twenty something sons, one of which would joke with me about how often they were hit on by some customers. All three were good looking and fit, but beyond some jokes, looks and other flirting nothing ever happened. I still wonder what might have happened if I'd been more open back then.