Masseurfinder Heal vs Relax - New Changes

[+ tassojunior]

Is it possible for them to go after CL too then?

 

Wikipedia's even worried. I'm sure Craiglist is.

[m4same]

This has me worried about what is next...

[Guest InthePines]

This seems to be happening under an umbrella with other prosecutorial actions taking place simultaneously.

 

Almost every county in metro Atlanta has reported arrests the past three months resulting from prostitution sting operations. Beyond the normal moral obstruction and pandering charges, local agencies are working with the Feds and the accused, (a least some), are being charged under Federal racketeering laws, carrying up to a twenty year jail sentence.

 

Beyond prostitution charges, one masseur told me he was up from Florida, hiding out, after being tipped off that they were being investigated for operating a massage business without a license or certification.

 

Until this plays out, I wouldn't assume any site is a safe place, for you could be contributing information that lands your favorite masseur in legal trouble.

[Dmitri]

No, although no net neutrality gives service providers even more discretion as to whom they will carry.

 

In gay life this is more about BackPage and RentMen.

 

DOJ and states are shutting down BackPage's escort and massage ads and of course, they did close down RentBoy. But that's because both were in the US. RentMen and numerous other sites are based overseas and their servers are overseas. So SESTA's solution is to force internet service providers to block these sites or face up to 10 years in federal prison and lawsuits for damages brought by US citizens. It's especially hard for small internet providers who can't afford any expensive sort of filtering and even the big guys usually err on the side of too much caution and when in doubt....block.

 

It's as if the telephone company could be charged with a serious crime if someone called you with something illegal. Until now the internet has been treated that way, like a telephone service not responsible for what others use it for. Now there will be an internet exception to that rule for anything dealing with selling sex.

 

@tassojunior , I have to compliment you. You are brilliant! You explain things so well, and really know your stuff. 2 questions: 1) Will SESTA impact Daddy's Reviews and these forums where we exchange information? Will we be shut down here? 2) I am in NYC. If I Google "erotic gay massage New York" or "Gay Escorts NYC" tons of links come up.....including Masseurfinder and MassageM4M. When SESTA is signed into law, will these same links come up or be blocked?

Edited March 23, 2018 by Dmitri

[+ tassojunior]

@tassojunior , I have to compliment you. You are brilliant! You explain things so well, and really know your stuff. 2 questions: 1) Will SESTA impact Daddy's Reviews and these forums where we exchange information? Will we be shut down here? 2) I am in NYC. If I Google "erotic gay massage New York" or "Gay Escorts NYC" tons of links come up.....including Masseurfinder and MassageM4M. When SESTA is signed into law, will these same links come up or be blocked?

 

I think @bigjoey is good on this and I hope he's right that a quick appeal will come and maybe halt enforcement of SESTA pending review.

 

Personally, I think the internet providers will err on the side of caution and start filters to block any escort talk anyway. I know Google has already been deleting nude photos from Google Photos and today I heard they're deleting porn from Google Drive. That MassuerFinder is deleting shirtless photos today means they expect filter blocking soon.

 

No one really knows what's going to happen and how soon. There is Hide.Me that will switch your location out of the US. We've already been using that to see written review comments on RentMen reviews. But again, I don't know if that would matter if your provider is US. I'm trying to get WhatsApp and text numbers for guys I know and ones I'm interested in just in case it does go dark.

[Dmitri]

This whole SESTA situations proves the saying "You don't know what you've got till it's gone." Never thought I would see this day.

[bordeauxfan]

Craigslist personals are history, as of this evening:

 

https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA

[Dmitri]

But CL massage ads are still online.....VERY overtly sexual (?)

[hardjohnny]

What date exactly did Masseurfinder notify the masseurs that their ads needed to be changed?

 

Does anyone know what was specifically said in its message about SESTA?

[+ EVdude]

Almost every county in metro Atlanta has reported arrests the past three months resulting from prostitution stink operations.

Yes, they do stink!! Freudian auto-fill! The whole damn thing stinks.

[IntuitiveTactile]

""The bright side is that there's a strong chance this bill will run into trouble in the courts. "Unlike the SAVE Act, which prohibits the knowing advertisement of trafficked sexual services, this statute implicates constitutionally protected speech," points out Notre Dame law instructor Alex F. Levy. (Read Levy's guest post at Eric Goldman's blog for all the legal nitty gritty on why.)"

https://reason.com/blog/2018/03/21/senate-passes-fosta-sex-trafficking-bill

[Dmitri]

What date exactly did Masseurfinder notify the masseurs that their ads needed to be changed?

 

Does anyone know what was specifically said in its message about SESTA?

 

I went for a massage today with my regular guy (been using him 3 years so we are friends now, apart from client/masseur) and got the scoop. And it is bullshit. He showed me alot of what is going on with MF. The masseurs got NO advance notice. They just went into their accounts and got a message that SESTA would now dictate their ads. My masseur had many shirtless photos and they were all gone. With NO advance notice. Online at 9am....shirtless photos offline at 10am. That quick. Pity the masseurs that have not checked their ads, since masseurs don't check them every day. So those masseurs have question marks for photos, or very few pics left that pass the test. And many masseurs on MF are STILL unaware of the changes. On top of this, Masseurfinder now has a system that when the masseur posts a photo, it is screened by software from Google. If Google rejects it (shirtless, suggestive, etc.) then MF has no control.....it is all up to Google. MF cannot overide Google. If Google accepts it, then MF does their OWN sniff test to decide if they will post it in the masseur's ad. He showed me....he put a photo in with no shirt. It instantly came back declined because it was to quote Google "barechested". It even declined a tank top photo that showed to much skin. The weird part is my guy also has an ad on MassageM4M. They do not have the Google software. He posted an outdoor shirtless photo (M4M has an outdoor shirtless policy....no indoor shirtless photos) and it was accepted and posted. So MF must have signed up for the Google software. The thing that sucks is that MF should have respected the masseurs and sent them emails explaining the new policy....and give them 1 week to comply. But they did NOT. They pulled the rug out from under these guys and made it instant, with no advance notice. That really sucks and shows no respect for their advertisers. (sorry for the War And Peace post....but alot of info to convey.)

[hottk29]

Craigslist personals are history, as of this evening:

 

https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA

 

WTF?!

[Redwine56]

I went for a massage today with my regular guy (been using him 3 years so we are friends now, apart from client/masseur) and got the scoop. And it is bullshit. He showed me alot of what is going on with MF. The masseurs got NO advance notice. They just went into their accounts and got a message that SESTA would now dictate their ads. My masseur had many shirtless photos and they were all gone. With NO advance notice. Online at 9am....shirtless photos offline at 10am. That quick. Pity the masseurs that have not checked their ads, since masseurs don't check them every day. So those masseurs have question marks for photos, or very few pics left that pass the test. And many masseurs on MF are STILL unaware of the changes. On top of this, Masseurfinder now has a system that when the masseur posts a photo, it is screened by software from Google. If Google rejects it (shirtless, suggestive, etc.) then MF has no control.....it is all up to Google. MF cannot overide Google. If Google accepts it, then MF does their OWN sniff test to decide if they will post it in the masseur's ad. He showed me....he put a photo in with no shirt. It instantly came back declined because it was to quote Google "barechested". It even declined a tank top photo that showed to much skin. The weird part is my guy also has an ad on MassageM4M. They do not have the Google software. He posted an outdoor shirtless photo (M4M has an outdoor shirtless policy....no indoor shirtless photos) and it was accepted and posted. So MF must have signed up for the Google software. The thing that sucks is that MF should have respected the masseurs and sent them emails explaining the new policy....and give them 1 week to comply. But they did NOT. They pulled the rug out from under these guys and made it instant, with no advance notice. That really sucks and shows no respect for their advertisers. (sorry for the War And Peace post....but alot of info to convey.)

Totally ridiculous! All of a sudden, we've all become puritans. Since when is it a crime for a guy to be shirtless? How about the crotch shots on "Rentmasseur.com"? Some of those are a lot more risqué than pics on masseurfinder. Can there be no happy endings between 2 consenting adults?

[AC Kreamer]

Is this because of the Net Neutrality bs?

This is about combatting human trafficking, but done in an overly broad fashion -- partly because the tech companies have lost their clout on capitol hill with their turning a blind eye to Russian interference in the 2016 election.

[Nvr2Thick]

And yeah, masseurfinder already screwed everything up when they changed "Sensual" to "Relax" -- because then just about all the masseurs advertised in both Relax and Heal. So no biggie, if they merged the two sides.

 

But the new photo policy sounds absolutely ridiculous.

 

I went for a massage today with my regular guy (been using him 3 years so we are friends now, apart from client/masseur) and got the scoop. And it is bullshit. He showed me alot of what is going on with MF. The masseurs got NO advance notice. They just went into their accounts and got a message that SESTA would now dictate their ads. My masseur had many shirtless photos and they were all gone. With NO advance notice. Online at 9am....shirtless photos offline at 10am. That quick. Pity the masseurs that have not checked their ads, since masseurs don't check them every day. So those masseurs have question marks for photos, or very few pics left that pass the test. And many masseurs on MF are STILL unaware of the changes. On top of this, Masseurfinder now has a system that when the masseur posts a photo, it is screened by software from Google. If Google rejects it (shirtless, suggestive, etc.) then MF has no control.....it is all up to Google. MF cannot overide Google. If Google accepts it, then MF does their OWN sniff test to decide if they will post it in the masseur's ad. He showed me....he put a photo in with no shirt. It instantly came back declined because it was to quote Google "barechested". It even declined a tank top photo that showed to much skin. The weird part is my guy also has an ad on MassageM4M. They do not have the Google software. He posted an outdoor shirtless photo (M4M has an outdoor shirtless policy....no indoor shirtless photos) and it was accepted and posted. So MF must have signed up for the Google software. The thing that sucks is that MF should have respected the masseurs and sent them emails explaining the new policy....and give them 1 week to comply. But they did NOT. They pulled the rug out from under these guys and made it instant, with no advance notice. That really sucks and shows no respect for their advertisers. (sorry for the War And Peace post....but alot of info to convey.)

 

Masseurfinder likely changed their terminology to protect themselves in the wake of the Rentboy shutdown. They didn't screw things up -- things got screwed up in an ambiguous way, and they reacted by scaling back on presentation that could be construed as sexual. MassageM4M reacted similarly.

 

It's also likely that Masseurfinder has been waiting to see whether legislation would pass, and had their plan defined in case it did pass. They wouldn't implement if it didn't pass, but they're taking a risk if they provide advance warning before they implement.

 

These are actions of self-preservation. There's no need to demonize these businesses for reacting quickly to legislation that could put them at risk.

[IntuitiveTactile]

These are actions of self-preservation. There's no need to demonize these businesses for reacting quickly to legislation that could put them at risk.

 

THANK YOU NVR2THICK for your leveled astute and pragmatic response

Edited March 23, 2018 by IntuitiveTactile

[Dmitri]

Masseurfinder....MassageM4M...and most other gay massage website owners KNOW the services the majority of their advertisers provide. (i.e. massage with "other" activities....nude, HE, etc.) So even if everyone is wearing a business suit in all their pics, the massage rates the masseurs post is the HUGE red flag for the internet service providers and the feds. The going rate in the outside world for a one hour therapeutic massage is not in the $120-$180/hr range as on the gay massage sites. ( I just Googled it and the going rate for a 1 hr. massage is $60 in the real world) On these sites the rates they charge is the biggest red flag, not the photos. So with the owners having full knowledge of the services their advertisers provide, at very inflated rates, it is a huge risk. After reading up on SESTA, and the fines and prison terms incurred, I would not want to be in their shoes and take the risk. Even running this site...Daddy's Website.... and this forum is a risk. To scary for me. I think we are all heading to the back of newspapers again to find our masseurs.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Dmitri

[eastietop]

I’m a similar vein, it looks like Craigslist has removed the personals section. Text from the page when you try to access any category within the personals section is pasted below:

 

“US Congress just passed HR 1865, "FOSTA", seeking to subject websites to criminal and civil liability when third parties (users) misuse online personals unlawfully.

 

Any tool or service can be misused. We can't take such risk without jeopardizing all our other services, so we are regretfully taking craigslist personals offline. Hopefully we can bring them back some day.

 

To the millions of spouses, partners, and couples who met through craigslist, we wish you every happiness!”

[+ EVdude]

I’m a similar vein, it looks like Craigslist has removed the personals section. Text from the page when you try to access any category within the personals section is pasted below:

 

“US Congress just passed HR 1865, "FOSTA", seeking to subject websites to criminal and civil liability when third parties (users) misuse online personals unlawfully.

 

Any tool or service can be misused. We can't take such risk without jeopardizing all our other services, so we are regretfully taking craigslist personals offline. Hopefully we can bring them back some day.

 

To the millions of spouses, partners, and couples who met through craigslist, we wish you every happiness!”

CL removes Personals yet leaves “Therapeutic” under Services where we see all of our favorite spa ads and individual male and female massage ads. I don’t get it.

 

Backpage still running full steam ahead.

Edited March 23, 2018 by EVdude

[Ajac]

Well with the legalization of marijuana the prisons may not meet their quotas so let's replace them nasty potheads with masseurs who provide happy endings or the heads of companies that advertise them showing above the waist skin. When the pendulum swings it swings wide. I think I may cash in by designing a line of victorian men's swimwear. We wouldn't want Karen Pence to blush at the beach would we?

[+ ButchAtl]

SESTA passed Congress today making escort sites federally illegal to carry (10 yrs in!) so expect a lot of changes.

YES, and now this morning Craigslist has removed ALL personal ads.

[+ Jamesp]

YES, and now this morning Craigslist has removed ALL personal ads.

Does that mean A4A and others will follow that suit too? I guess they want to boost economy and trade but no good ol' occational fun.

[Inkdnaija00]

Masseurfinder likely changed their terminology to protect themselves in the wake of the Rentboy shutdown. They didn't screw things up -- things got screwed up in an ambiguous way, and they reacted by scaling back on presentation that could be construed as sexual. MassageM4M reacted similarly.

 

It's also likely that Masseurfinder has been waiting to see whether legislation would pass, and had their plan defined in case it did pass. They wouldn't implement if it didn't pass, but they're taking a risk if they provide advance warning before they implement.

 

These are actions of self-preservation. There's no need to demonize these businesses for reacting quickly to legislation that could put them at risk.

 

Very very well said

[carnalvore]

This is about combatting human trafficking, but done in an overly broad fashion -- partly because the tech companies have lost their clout on capitol hill with their turning a blind eye to Russian interference in the 2016 election.

 

I think they dressed up this bill as being about human trafficking, which made it hard to vote against, but the goal is to enforce the sexual Puritanism of the social conservatives. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been written so broadly.

 

Small government for corporations, big brother for the little people.