I think I have been discriminated against at work

[Tommygunzz]

After 7 months at a new job, I was let go for "job performance issues". No other clarification. No warning. No previous discussion about job performance. Not even a 6 month review. My employment was "at will" meaning that they could let me go for any reason without warning. But, I don't think discrimination---ageism, sexual orientation and sex---is covered.

 

Some things happened during my tenure that I recorded in my notes:

• My boss's boss made a comment the first time that she met me that I was "nothing like she expected." I kind of laughed and pressed her why and she said that she didn't expect my gray hair and Dad-bod.
  
• Same person continually addressed me (and others) as "Love". Like "How are you today Love?" "Yes, Love, what is it?"
  
• My immediate supervisor told me the reaction of two other people who interviewed me. They didn't think I was "gay enough for (her boss). "You know how she likes her Gays."
  
• In a group conversation at work, one co-worker asked if I had ANY non-white friends.
  
• Same co-worker asked to see my driver's license picture one day and checked out my birth date, then remarked that she had no idea I was that old.
  
• Another co-worker, who knew I was Gay (I was open with everyone at work), made a comment to me one day in the hallway when I almost ran into her on my way to the men's room. Another man had just walked by us and I was checking him out. The co worker suggested that I should watch where I was going and not to be looking at other men.
  

There's a few more, but that's the general idea.

 

I just had a phone-review this week with a Senior VP about my concerns. I worked in his group, but only with limited exposure. He is high enough up in the organization to make a decision on this, or at least high enough to influence HR. I had sent him (and the VP of HR) an email 2 weeks after my termination and listed all of the above in the email. He agreed to talk to me. The HR VP said that she would speak to him after the conversation. The discussion went well and I kept bringing up "discrimination" and "diversity." I told him that I felt I had been discriminated against. His only response was that he would look into this and get back to me. No time frame.

 

This company is the world's largest in it's field. The workforce is diverse and inclusive, so I'm surprised at the comments that I received from people who should be more sensitive. They are protective of their image and would not welcome any adverse publicity that this might cause them.

 

I don't want my job back. I do want to be compensated for what I feel has been an injustice. My question is how much should I go for. One friend suggested starting at 3x annual salary. I would be willing to accept much less.

 

I am not sure I would ever go as far as to actually take them to court. (They are based in another Country.) However, I would ask an attorney friend to write a letter intended to make them think I was serious. I am prepared to make comments in social media (Facebook, Instagram, blogs, Linked In, Glassdoor, etc.) to turn up the heat. I also don't want this to drag on too long, so I want them to make a decision quickly--let's say in a couple of weeks.

 

Advice?

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Are you making these claims in a Right-To-Work state?

 

If so, it's an uphill battle. I don't know if I'd spend the time and money, instead opting to move on and find something better.

[Tommygunzz]

Hi Ben: Yes, Nevada is a right-to-work state and I was employed at-will. Even so, I didn't think that anti-discrimination covered by Federal law (age discrimination) would be included.

[sincitymix]

Hi Ben: Yes, Nevada is a right-to-work state and I was employed at-will. Even so, I didn't think that anti-discrimination covered by Federal law (age discrimination) would be included.

yeah you have a huuuuuuuuuge up hill battle in Nevada. you'll need more concrete proof then what you have (pretty much the burden of proof is all on you to provide.) .. and good luck on the compensation. i don't think its going to happen, unless the employees in question admit to what they did.. and if they have any ounce of self preservation they wont.

[+ sync]

To the point in the title of the thread, I would say you were definitely discriminated at work. It takes time to train yourself to be constantly on guard, but it's worth the effort. At the very first remark about grey hair and dad bod, I would have asked if I should expect age discrimination from everyone here at (company name)? Any non-white friends--I don't ask friends for DNA information, do you? Driver license picture--you show me yours, I'll show you mine. I detest confrontation, but sometimes you won't get any respect until you release the bitch in you.

[+ Topseed]

Move on. Focus your energy on finding your next position.

 

This is not to excuse discrimination in any form. But, your former employer has the upper hand in terms of dollars and time. They can, and will, play a war of attrition.

[FurryDude]

You might want to consider consulting with a plaintiff-side employment lawyer in the area where you worked. They can tell you what realistic expectations are, whether you have a claim worth pursuing, and the various avenues open to you, such as an EEOC complaint process, a state employment discrimination process, or other avenues. Many will offer a free consultation, although whether the good ones where you are, I can't say. If you can get a free consultation, which is usually 30 minutes to an hour, you should present yourself well, have any relevant paperwork organized, and be prepared to give a coherent capsule summary of what happened in very concrete, linear chronology. Including the parts that might not be favorable to you. Good luck!

[LaffingBear]

Move on. Focus your energy on finding your next position.

 

This is not to excuse discrimination in any form. But, your former employer has the upper hand in terms of dollars and time. They can, and will, play a war of attrition.

I tend to agree. But if you're determined to follow up, get an attorney.

 

Speaking as a former manager, VP in a publicly-traded corp, I didnt read anything that sounds like actionable discrimination. Inappropriate - yes. Perhaps borderline harassment or hostile... They'll respond that you had a duty to address the matter while employed, and "spin" it as sour grapes after termination.

 

With an attorney, you might get a settlement as a nuisance... But then you won't be able to list that employer. Depending on where you are in career plans, that may not matter.

 

It's a huge energy drain to pursue a settlement,potentially expensive, and you may never get the outcome thats truly helpful. Give serious thought to moving on.

[+ Avalon]

Always ask high so they can compromise lower.

[Tommygunzz]

To the point in the title of the thread, I would say you were definitely discriminated at work. It takes time to train yourself to be constantly on guard, but it's worth the effort. At the very first remark about grey hair and dad bod, I would have asked if I should expect age discrimination from everyone here at (company name)? Any non-white friends--I don't ask friends for DNA information, do you? Driver license picture--you show me yours, I'll show you mine. I detest confrontation, but sometimes you won't get any respect until you release the bitch in you.

 

Thanks for the advice Sync. I am currently 63 and only a couple of years away from when I thought I would retire. My planner says I can retire now and still be OK to live to 95, so that is a comfort. It also puts me at a point in my life where I feel like I would like to release that inner-bitch and not have to worry about some other retaliation. I'm back in Texas now, so it could be a costly out-of-state fight, but I would delight in taking this a bit farther, if only to make a few former co-workers miserable.

 

The company is owned by investors and they would like to spin the company off. I think that this might be some publicity that they would not enjoy. I'm also not above reaching out to the CEO of the company in Montreal and the CEO of the investment group in Ft Worth.

[Tommygunzz]

Always ask high so they can compromise lower.

 

That's what I was thinking. I would be completely satisfied with much less.

[Tommygunzz]

yeah you have a huuuuuuuuuge up hill battle in Nevada. you'll need more concrete proof then what you have (pretty much the burden of proof is all on you to provide.) .. and good luck on the compensation. i don't think its going to happen, unless the employees in question admit to what they did.. and if they have any ounce of self preservation they wont.

 

Thanks Sincitymix. I agree that my "evidence" is a bit thin, but am counting on this to create enough of a nuisance and distraction that they might want to settle with me and move on.

[Tommygunzz]

I tend to agree. But if you're determined to follow up, get an attorney.

 

Speaking as a former manager, VP in a publicly-traded corp, I didnt read anything that sounds like actionable discrimination. Inappropriate - yes. Perhaps borderline harassment or hostile... They'll respond that you had a duty to address the matter while employed, and "spin" it as sour grapes after termination.

 

With an attorney, you might get a settlement as a nuisance... But then you won't be able to list that employer. Depending on where you are in career plans, that may not matter.

 

It's a huge energy drain to pursue a settlement,potentially expensive, and you may never get the outcome thats truly helpful. Give serious thought to moving on.

 

Thanks LaffingBear. I wondered if anyone thought this sounded like actionable discrimination, so I appreciate your perspective. Totally agree about the inappropriateness of the comments. I had moved to Nevada for this position based on my conviction that this would be a wonderful end to my working career, totally doing something that sounded interesting, rewarding and different. It turned into a nightmare, and I've packed up and moved back to Texas.

 

I'm not above going out poking the bear--no pun intended--and think I might stick on this a while longer.

 

Thanks for all the comments.

[+ Funguy]

If you decide to keep working, perhaps the guarantee of a really good letter of recommendation would be worth more $ than you will probably get.

[Tommygunzz]

You might want to consider consulting with a plaintiff-side employment lawyer in the area where you worked. They can tell you what realistic expectations are, whether you have a claim worth pursuing, and the various avenues open to you, such as an EEOC complaint process, a state employment discrimination process, or other avenues. Many will offer a free consultation, although whether the good ones where you are, I can't say. If you can get a free consultation, which is usually 30 minutes to an hour, you should present yourself well, have any relevant paperwork organized, and be prepared to give a coherent capsule summary of what happened in very concrete, linear chronology. Including the parts that might not be favorable to you. Good luck!

 

I had not considered an EEOC complaint, or filing with the state. Both good suggestions and might just be enough to bring attention to my claim and get the company to settle with me as a nuisance. Thanks FurryDude.

[Tommygunzz]

If you decide to keep working, perhaps the guarantee of a really good letter of recommendation would be worth more $ than you will probably get.

 

Thanks FunGuy. I don't plan to ask them for a letter of recommendation. I will request one from the woman who hired me, and who by the way, was also released on her six-month anniversary with the same vague reason of "job performance issues."

[LaffingBear]

If you decide to keep working, perhaps the guarantee of a really good letter of recommendation would be worth more $ than you will probably get.

Just one guy's perspective.

 

After 25 years in management, I transitioned to consulting. I do a lot of recruiting.

 

Written reference letters mean nothing to me - I tend to disregard them. I tell candidates not to bother sending them.

 

Its a frustrating and contradictory world. Employers want references. But all sizeable employers have policies saying they won't give references - they'll merely confirm employment .

 

I use an employment application. I insist candidates complete and sign the sections regarding honesty and references... tell them they can complete the rest or attach a resume. The reference section includes a hold-harmless release regarding reference requests of contacts. (Probably worthless,but better than nothing...and it helps me get info.)

 

I only accept verbal references. Want verbal confirmation of employment. And frequently get people to say more than their policy permits... particularly when they want to give a good reference. Stated differently, when every previous employer defers to their no-reference policy, refusing to say anything - particularly if I reach former managers outside the HR department - its a potential bad sign.

 

If candidates provide a letter, but dont want me to contact an employer... its a red flag.

 

....just my way, my industry....

[sincitymix]

Just one guy's perspective.

 

After 25 years in management, I transitioned to consulting. I do a lot of recruiting.

 

Written reference letters mean nothing to me - I tend to disregard them. I tell candidates not to bother sending them.

 

Its a frustrating and contradictory world. Employers want references. But all sizeable employers have policies saying they won't give references - they'll merely confirm employment .

 

I use an employment application. I insist candidates complete and sign the sections regarding honesty and references... tell them they can complete the rest or attach a resume. The reference section includes a hold-harmless release regarding reference requests of contacts. (Probably worthless,but better than nothing...and it helps me get info.)

 

I only accept verbal references. Want verbal confirmation of employment. And frequently get people to say more than their policy permits... particularly when they want to give a good reference. Stated differently, when every previous employer defers to their no-reference policy, refusing to say anything - particularly if I reach former managers outside the HR department - its a potential bad sign.

 

If candidates provide a letter, but dont want me to contact an employer... its a red flag.

 

....just my way, my industry....

I didnt get a job i was really aiming for a few years back due to this. my previous employer does not allow references, they even fired a supervisor who gave a reference for another coworker. she violated company policy. they only allow verification of employment. even the job i was applying for said they dont give references either but require it. so stupid

[510guy]

I agree that letter of references are basically useless now. When I was a reference I was told to just refer to HR. With social media it is hard to get anything of substance in writing as you never know when a letter could show up on Facebook. Even a glowing letter could end up on social media for co-workers to see which an employer may not want seen by employees.

 

The fact that the person hiring you also was let go for a vague reason probably makes your case harder.

[OCClient]

Sorry to hear you had to work with people like that.

For all of the crushing, frustrating challenges my organization unleashes on us, at least there is no tolerance for the kind of behavior you describe. It rarely happens, and I'm thankful for it.

I've worked around people like you describe years ago, but now I'm not sure I'd have the tolerance for it on a daily basis.

[DiscoveringMe]

I think @LaffingBear has hit the nail on the head, especially about the issues not being reported at the time they occurred. If you are serious about this, please heed the advice of seeking council.

 

One question I have is... was there any severance provided? If so, you likely waived any rights to legal action. That said, in the case of age discrimination you have 7 days to revoke a signed severance.

 

Based on the information provided, the one thing that most strikes me as odd is a performance based termination without any prior discussion. Most companies, especially large ones, will document performance issues in excruciating detail and put an employee on a performance improvement plan prior to termination. It's worth noting that in Nevada you have 60 days from termination to inspect your personnel file. Perhaps that is your first step.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Hi Ben: Yes, Nevada is a right-to-work state and I was employed at-will. Even so, I didn't think that anti-discrimination covered by Federal law (age discrimination) would be included.

 

No matter how you decide to handle it, I'm sorry you're dealing with it.

 

We should be past these things in this day and age, but we're not. Sadly, I don't think there's a silver bullet for ignorance.

[bigvalboy]

After 7 months at a new job, I was let go for "job performance issues". No other clarification. No warning. No previous discussion about job performance. Not even a 6 month review. My employment was "at will" meaning that they could let me go for any reason without warning. But, I don't think discrimination---ageism, sexual orientation and sex---is covered.

 

Some things happened during my tenure that I recorded in my notes:

• My boss's boss made a comment the first time that she met me that I was "nothing like she expected." I kind of laughed and pressed her why and she said that she didn't expect my gray hair and Dad-bod.
  
• Same person continually addressed me (and others) as "Love". Like "How are you today Love?" "Yes, Love, what is it?"
  
• My immediate supervisor told me the reaction of two other people who interviewed me. They didn't think I was "gay enough for (her boss). "You know how she likes her Gays."
  
• In a group conversation at work, one co-worker asked if I had ANY non-white friends.
  
• Same co-worker asked to see my driver's license picture one day and checked out my birth date, then remarked that she had no idea I was that old.
  
• Another co-worker, who knew I was Gay (I was open with everyone at work), made a comment to me one day in the hallway when I almost ran into her on my way to the men's room. Another man had just walked by us and I was checking him out. The co worker suggested that I should watch where I was going and not to be looking at other men.
  

There's a few more, but that's the general idea.

 

I just had a phone-review this week with a Senior VP about my concerns. I worked in his group, but only with limited exposure. He is high enough up in the organization to make a decision on this, or at least high enough to influence HR. I had sent him (and the VP of HR) an email 2 weeks after my termination and listed all of the above in the email. He agreed to talk to me. The HR VP said that she would speak to him after the conversation. The discussion went well and I kept bringing up "discrimination" and "diversity." I told him that I felt I had been discriminated against. His only response was that he would look into this and get back to me. No time frame.

 

This company is the world's largest in it's field. The workforce is diverse and inclusive, so I'm surprised at the comments that I received from people who should be more sensitive. They are protective of their image and would not welcome any adverse publicity that this might cause them.

 

I don't want my job back. I do want to be compensated for what I feel has been an injustice. My question is how much should I go for. One friend suggested starting at 3x annual salary. I would be willing to accept much less.

 

I am not sure I would ever go as far as to actually take them to court. (They are based in another Country.) However, I would ask an attorney friend to write a letter intended to make them think I was serious. I am prepared to make comments in social media (Facebook, Instagram, blogs, Linked In, Glassdoor, etc.) to turn up the heat. I also don't want this to drag on too long, so I want them to make a decision quickly--let's say in a couple of weeks.

 

Advice?

 

Find a good lawyer. Period

 

If what you are saying is accurate, regardless of the state, laws governing discrimination, whether it is race, age, sexual orientation, religious, often comes with zero tolerance.

 

I had the identical situation at work a number of years ago. I was the victim of harassment over being gay, and over my race. The harassment was subtle and often with innuendos. The first time it happened I pushed back very hard. I filed a complaint with corporate, pursued complaints with HR, but the situation escalated.

 

I finally got a lawyer. Some lawyers will tell you that you need to show that you have been damaged in some way, either financially or emotionally. Denied a promotion, salary cut, transferred to another area making it difficult to commute , layed off, forced into early retirement, demoted unfairly, or they want you to show that you have been emotionally damaged in some way, needing therapy, medication, the severity impacting your ability to perform your job... however that is not necessarily the case. None of those things had happened to me, I was just being harassed, which is why you need the right lawyer.

 

A year later, when the lawsuit was finally settled, one of the guys in the office was terminated. I took a year off work on their dime, with full benefits, and then they had to pay me an additional year of disability, and they allowed me to retire early without being penalized, and then they wrote me a big fat check. Two days later I packed my bags and headed to Florida.

 

Good luck...

Edited March 2, 2018 by bigvalboy

[Tommygunzz]

I think @LaffingBear has hit the nail on the head, especially about the issues not being reported at the time they occurred. If you are serious about this, please heed the advice of seeking council.

 

One question I have is... was there any severance provided? If so, you likely waived any rights to legal action. That said, in the case of age discrimination you have 7 days to revoke a signed severance.

 

Based on the information provided, the one thing that most strikes me as odd is a performance based termination without any prior discussion. Most companies, especially large ones, will document performance issues in excruciating detail and put an employee on a performance improvement plan prior to termination. It's worth noting that in Nevada you have 60 days from termination to inspect your personnel file. Perhaps that is your first step.

 

 

Thanks DiscoveringMe:

Severence. I was provided an additional two weeks of regular pay, in addition to what I was owed, plus my unused vacation. It was not referred to as "severance" in my termination letter and no severance was offered.

 

I agree with you about the termination based on job performance when there was no discussion or documentation to that claim. The employee handbook does outline 5 pages of procedures to improve an employee's performance when it's determined to be lacking. That procedure was not followed in my case. But, it's kind of a catch-22---they outline a procedure, but then state in the next paragraph that employees are hired "at will" and "<the company> retains the right to end the relationship at any time for any reason."

 

Good suggestion about inspecting my personnel file. Might have a look.

[Tommygunzz]

Find a good lawyer. Period

 

If what you are saying is accurate, regardless of the state, laws governing discrimination, whether it is race, age, sexual orientation, religious, often comes with zero tolerance.

 

I had the identical situation at work a number of years ago. I was the victim of harassment over being gay, and over my race. The harassment was subtle and often with innuendos. The first time it happened I pushed back very hard. I filed a complaint with corporate, pursued complaints with HR, but the situation escalated.

 

I finally got a lawyer. Some lawyers will tell you that you need to show that you have been damaged in some way, either financially or emotionally. Denied a promotion, salary cut, transferred to another area making it difficult to commute , layed off, forced into early retirement, demoted unfairly, or they want you to show that you have been emotionally damaged in some way, that impacted your ability to perform your job... however that is not necessarily the case. None of those things had happened to me, I was just being harassed, which is why you need the right lawyer.

 

At the end of the day, when the lawsuit was finally settled, one of the guys in the office was terminated. I took a year off work on their dime, with full benefits, and then they had to pay me an additional year of disability, and they allowed me to retire early without being penalized, and then they wrote me a big fat check. Two days later I packed my bags and headed to Florida. On the day that I flew out of LA, I hired a limo to take me to the airport. At 7am I passed our office, the driver asked if I wanted to stop at Starbucks for a coffee. He pulled the car right up to the front door and let me out. When I walked up, three of the guys from the office were sitting at a table just outside the door, when I looked down they were just sitting there staring at me with this look of bewilderment. I looked down and said "Yes gentlemen, it's me, y'all have a nice day now". I got my coffee and the driver opened the door for me. When I got inside, I said to the driver, "Take your time pulling out of here" He just started laughing.

 

 

Thanks Bigvalboy. Good advice and an uplifting story. Thanks for sharing.