HIV Undetectable

[youngboldone]

I could really use some advice guys. Considering hiring a local daddy type who is the ideal guy to get me going. He also has a sweet personality, and I can tell by his response to my initial contact that he is an honest, intelligent, empathetic human being. So here's my dilemma. During our back-and-forth correspondence, he told me he is HIV undetectable. As ashamed as I am to say, I almost pretty much shut down when I read that. I have always been borderline paranoid when it comes to sexual health and staying disease free, which is probably why I've had so little sex in my life.

 

This guy assures me that we can play safe, that kissing, oral, rimming and even anal with a condom are all safe and pose no risk to me. That seems too good to be true to me. But I admit on being a bit ignorant about HIV transmission issues. ( Still not sure I've found a reliable answer on whether or not swallowing can pose risk of transmission. ) This guy is sexy as hell, but I can't get over the thought that I'm absolutely crazy for even considering seeing him.

 

Am I being too cautious here, or should I heed my gut instinct to stay away?

[starman05]

Go with your gut.

 

Do you 'have' to have anal? That seems to be the one that is most unsafe.

 

Me? I'd pass. But maybe nothing would happen.

 

Except a fun time, of course.

[evensteven]

Am I being too cautious here,

 

Yes, you are being too cautious. Full stop. The research is clear. There is zero risk of HIV transmission from someone who is undetectable.

 

It's still a good idea to use a condom though, just in case he really isn't undetectable. Plus, it can protect you from gonorrhea.

[caliguy]

I too would go with your gut. I mean why did he even have to say anything and go and ruin it.

[j0ck7]

Don't believe HIV undetectable nonsense.

1) that's been told by him. You never know it's true or not.

2) Even he's HIV undetectable. It means he's taking medicine to fight HIV, controlling the viral load to a low level. But this could be changed anytime. e.g. He is sick or he forgets to take medicine. Then the viral load level will start to rebound.

 

You still can protect yourself by condom though. Avoid to take his sperm in the ass or in the mouth. Don't do french kiss if you have an open sore in the mouth although the viral load level in saliva is pretty low.

[Guy Fawkes]

You need to read this: http://i-base.info/htb/30108

 

ZERO: no linked HIV transmissions in PARTNER study after couples had sex 58,000 times without condoms

 

I could really use some advice guys. Considering hiring a local daddy type who is the ideal guy to get me going. He also has a sweet personality, and I can tell by his response to my initial contact that he is an honest, intelligent, empathetic human being. So here's my dilemma. During our back-and-forth correspondence, he told me he is HIV undetectable. As ashamed as I am to say, I almost pretty much shut down when I read that. I have always been borderline paranoid when it comes to sexual health and staying disease free, which is probably why I've had so little sex in my life.

 

This guy assures me that we can play safe, that kissing, oral, rimming and even anal with a condom are all safe and pose no risk to me. That seems too good to be true to me. But I admit on being a bit ignorant about HIV transmission issues. ( Still not sure I've found a reliable answer on whether or not swallowing can pose risk of transmission. ) This guy is sexy as hell, but I can't get over the thought that I'm absolutely crazy for even considering seeing him.

 

Am I being too cautious here, or should I heed my gut instinct to stay away?

[gallahadesquire]

Don't believe HIV undetectable nonsense.

1) that's been told by him. You never know it's true or not.

2) Even he's HIV undetectable. It means he's taking medicine to fight HIV, controlling the viral load to a low level. But this could be changed anytime. e.g. He is sick or he forgets to take medicine. Then the viral load level will start to rebound.

 

You still can protect yourself by condom though. Avoid to take his sperm in the ass or in the mouth. Don't do french kiss if you have an open sore in the mouth although the viral load level in saliva is pretty low.

 

A long-time friend and AIDS survivor somehow went a little bonkers on his HIV medications. I think something else was probably involved.

 

At any rate, they took him off all of his medications. His HIV levels promptly sky-rocketed. He had a nasty AIDS neuropathy, and was, for the rest of his life, in a wheel chair.

 

He passed on, having become a raging alcoholic. He was very careful whilst on his HIV medications.

 

Needless to say, our health care system failed him there ... big time.

[+ JEC]

I could really use some advice guys. Considering hiring a local daddy type who is the ideal guy to get me going. He also has a sweet personality, and I can tell by his response to my initial contact that he is an honest, intelligent, empathetic human being. So here's my dilemma. During our back-and-forth correspondence, he told me he is HIV undetectable. As ashamed as I am to say, I almost pretty much shut down when I read that. I have always been borderline paranoid when it comes to sexual health and staying disease free, which is probably why I've had so little sex in my life.

 

This guy assures me that we can play safe, that kissing, oral, rimming and even anal with a condom are all safe and pose no risk to me. That seems too good to be true to me. But I admit on being a bit ignorant about HIV transmission issues. ( Still not sure I've found a reliable answer on whether or not swallowing can pose risk of transmission. ) This guy is sexy as hell, but I can't get over the thought that I'm absolutely crazy for even considering seeing him.

 

Am I being too cautious here, or should I heed my gut instinct to stay away?

The only thing zero risk is abstinence. You should govern your own behavior as if everyone you come into contact with has a transmittable disease. That way, you are 100% comfortable with, and responsible for, whatever happens. I do think it's naive to play in this space and assume zero risk of any form of transmission (of many things)....some things can even be shared by kissing. The responsibility is all on you, not the other guy, to educate yourself and determine what your boundaries and acceptable risk are. Don't let someone else try to talk you into changing your risk. I would note there is a lot of info out there (some conflicting, some not accurate), and that the science has changed a lot over time (and continues to), so suggest relying on (1) current/recent and (2) reliable sources. Good luck.

[wolfgangdc]

The CDC did a large study and showed that there is no HIV transmission when the viral levels are undetectable.

There are of course plenty of other things you can get so using a condom is always in your best interest.

 

You said you like to swallow, the risk of infection is very low (I read less than 1% transmission rate in a hospital though the CDC article below doesn't cite numbers), and even lower (effectively zero) if they are undetectable

 

Yes of course you should be safe and protect yourself, but I'm not sure why people in this thread are so skeptical he might be lying.

It is in his own best interest, for his own health to take his medication and remain undetectable. I think most of all he would never EVER want to infect someone else, and burden them with the same stigma.

 

If you say you are scared but want to get together I am sure he would be able to guide you through and make you feel safe while providing an enjoyable experience. It's likely something he may deal with regularly.

 

I'm not even poz but I have many friends that are and education helps overcome stigma!! I have some sources below so you can read for yourself and not take it from me. They're dot gov sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source:

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html

"When ART results in viral suppression, defined as less than 200 copies/ml or undetectable levels, it prevents sexual HIV transmission. Across three different studies, including thousands of couples and many thousand acts of sex without a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), no HIV transmissions to an HIV-negative partner were observed when the HIV-positive person was virally suppressed. "

 

 

On oral:

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/oralsex.html

"The risk of HIV transmission through oral sex is even lower if the HIV-negative partner is taking medicine to prevent HIV (pre-exposure prophylaxis or PrEP) or the HIV-positive partner is taking medicine to treat HIV (antiretroviral therapy or ART) and is virally suppressed."

[Guy Fawkes]

Either way You are relying on his honesty about his status.

 

You should treat him the way you would treat any intimate relationship and practice safer sex.

 

Remember we only have treatments, not a cure. We've been waiting for half a century for a cure with countless "We almost have it" announcements. Coming up with a anti-viral is very time consuming.

 

You need to read this: http://i-base.info/htb/30108

ZERO: no linked HIV transmissions in PARTNER study after couples had sex 58,000 times without condoms

[LADoug1]

Consider too the anxiety level you might feel after the encounter. For myself it’s not worth taking the chance. I remember the 80’s and am still traumatized by it.

[Pepper Young]

Undetectable = Untransmittable

But if you feel uncomfortable knowingly have sex with a poz guy, then move on.

[youngboldone]

Thank you all for the educational responses. You've provided me good reasons for and against going through with it, but at the end of the day, I know my anxiety level would probably prohibit me from having a carefree, fun time, and since that is supposed to be the main goal of hiring someone, I'm going to let my big head rule the day.

[KennF]

Wow. I'm amazed any the amount on conflicting information being shared.

 

@youngboldone there are several things going on at once. Let's break them down for you:

 

1) You have an absence of information on HIV with a general fear of it. This is easily overcome. The information is out there in the CDC, and regardless of whether you hire this guy, you should get yourself informed.

HIV is controllable. HIV transmission can be prevented. HIV is not the death sentence it was in the 80's & 90's.

For sexual purposes, in your situation, an undetectable HIV viral load means that the chance of being infected is effectively zero.

 

2) The fact that this escort informed you was a responsible thing to do. Unnecessary, but forthcoming and honorable. He didn't need to come forth. Those that have disparaged his integrity should consider the flip side... what if he hadn't said something? Wouldn't you have been upset if you found out your sexual partner had a disease after the fact?

 

3) He informed you of this, you can easily add the extra layer of protection and use a condom in order to avoid the transmission HIV or of any other STI/STD.

 

4) You need to understand, that everyone or anyone can lie to you about their HIV or other conditions. It is your responsibility to be safe for yourself and only accept the risks you are willing to accept. If you don't trust that he's on his meds, then a condom will do the job.

 

5) Only you can overcome your fear. There is a LOT of myth and misperception out there. But only you can feel comfortable with yourself.

[KennF]

In answer to your specific question...

 

The guy is giving you accurate information. Kissing, Oral, Rimming, and Anal (with a condom) pose no risk of transmission of HIV.

[LaffingBear]

I believe everything the escort is saying regarding risks is accurate. I believe there is very very little risk in the activities presented.

 

Safe practices are advisable no matter what you're being told by any partner. Theres no way for a partner to verify undetectable in most situations, short of showing very recent lab results.

 

Personally, I wouldnt be worried for myself, and I dont even bother to ask HIV status. But my advice to someone with the worry is to not ignore emotional concerns. Follow your gut instinct.

 

Not all fears are illogical. If its genuine, irrational paranoia, find a qualified method to deal with it.

 

And dont judge yourself based on some perceived norm of how much sex you should have had. Theres nothing wrong with being sexually less active, and exploits described on a forum about sex are not necessarily norms. If the concern is having a major effect on you, consider professional therapy, perhaps a sexual therapist.

 

No one is going to gossip walking away from your funeral service "he was a great guy, but its too bad he had so little sex in his life."

[jawjateck]

Thank you all for the educational responses. You've provided me good reasons for and against going through with it, but at the end of the day, I know my anxiety level would probably prohibit me from having a carefree, fun time, and since that is supposed to be the main goal of hiring someone, I'm going to let my big head rule the day.

 

There are many reasons why and many people for whom this hobby is not a good fit, and can even be detrimental. That has played out openly on this forum many times previously. No need to agonize over it. Pursue and enjoy peace of mind, live well, and you're way ahead of most other people anyway.

[Philly50]

I can tell by his response to my initial contact that he is an honest, intelligent, empathetic human being.

 

Scratching my head on this. You can tell that he's honest from his response? You have a built-in lie detector or something? Sorry to be snarky, but many con artists excel at imitating honest, empathetic humans. Best to be a bit skeptical.

[caliguy]

Scratching my head on this. many con artists excel at imitating honest, empathetic humans. Best to be a bit skeptical.

Me too. More about why you felt the need to post that.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I could really use some advice guys. Considering hiring a local daddy type who is the ideal guy to get me going. He also has a sweet personality, and I can tell by his response to my initial contact that he is an honest, intelligent, empathetic human being. So here's my dilemma. During our back-and-forth correspondence, he told me he is HIV undetectable. As ashamed as I am to say, I almost pretty much shut down when I read that. I have always been borderline paranoid when it comes to sexual health and staying disease free, which is probably why I've had so little sex in my life.

 

This guy assures me that we can play safe, that kissing, oral, rimming and even anal with a condom are all safe and pose no risk to me. That seems too good to be true to me. But I admit on being a bit ignorant about HIV transmission issues. ( Still not sure I've found a reliable answer on whether or not swallowing can pose risk of transmission. ) This guy is sexy as hell, but I can't get over the thought that I'm absolutely crazy for even considering seeing him.

 

Am I being too cautious here, or should I heed my gut instinct to stay away?

 

 

Good advice here, but here's one more thought:

 

Do you trust a total stranger to be 100% honest about his viral load? Unless you're on PrEP already, I'd hesitate too.

[youngboldone]

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm not on PrEP. If I were, I'd probably feel better about taking the risk.

[rvwnsd]

While I disagree with your gut, it is your gut feeling and not mine so you have to go with it. I think you should do what is right for you.

 

However, if he told you he is HIV - would you believe him, despite knowing that he could be lying or have unknowingly seroconverted and, therefore, be HIV+?

[youngboldone]

I guess I'm more willing to believe him because he told me his poz status. Who would lie about being poz? Plus, he's been incredibly understanding in our correspondence about my hangups, hasn't pressured me at all, and even sent me a link to an NBC news report about risk of transmission when undetectable.

[rvwnsd]

I guess I'm more willing to believe him because he told me his poz status. Who would lie about being poz? Plus, he's been incredibly understanding in our correspondence about my hangups, hasn't pressured me at all, and even sent me a link to an NBC news report about risk of transmission when undetectable.

That's my point. I am sure there are guys who will say they are undetectable when, in fact, they are not. However, you stated you would use a condom, which significantly reduces the risk of transmission if your partner is HIV+ but not undetectable. The fact that he has sent you links to information about the risk of transmission when undetectable tells me he is legit.

 

HOWEVER, if you are still not comfortable take a pass.