Kevin Spacey Accused of Sexual Misconduct, Confirms Rumors He Is Gay

[+ Avalon]

Spacey lives in NY, which has a superb selection of gay escorts-why not just hire?

 

EXACTLY!!! There was no need to pick upon the innocent!

[Despardo]

[+ stevenkesslar]

Spacey lives in NY, which has a superb selection of gay escorts-why not just hire?

 

Actually, that's the point.

 

I'm not a psychologist, but I think that's what makes it a disorder, a sickness, whatever. He can't control it.

 

You could argue the same with a rapist - why not just hire an escort?

 

And I don't mean they can't control it in the sense that I'm defending it. I mean it in the sense that they are probably sick, and they need help. The picture emerging of Spacey sounds a lot like Weinstein - just over the top, and out of control.

 

I've made the point already, but I can't resist repeating. The nice thing about this all coming out at once is that it should make it clear that this kind of predatory behavior has nothing to do with being Gay or Straight - it has to do with being a predator.

 

And that's also what makes this different than a voluntary "casting couch" relationship.

 

If some young Gay stud who is 18 wants to sleep with a Director to get ahead, as far as I'm concerned, that's his choice.

 

If some young Gay stud who is 17 wants to sleep with a Director to get ahead, maybe it will work out okay. But the Director better be aware that he is making himself jail bait and jeopardizing his career if it doesn't.

 

If some young Gay stud who is 14 doesn't want Kevin Spacey on him, that's a no brainer. This should not be confused with consenting adults who voluntarily put it out - because they are an escort, an aspiring actor, whatever.

Edited November 3, 2017 by stevenkesslar

[Whitman]

Do not waste your time... Let them enjoy the blaming.

"Enjoy the blaming" ... ??? ... Man, you really don't get it.

They have their witch to torch.

Not a witch. A predator. A man who takes advantage of those who are younger, less successful, less powerful, for some of whom Spacey was a mentor or a boss. A man who is sexually inappropriate with children.

 

... And then he -- HE! -- does the blaming. And he blames being gay like you.

[Whitman]

... that's also what makes this different than a voluntary "casting couch" relationship.

Is there any such thing as a voluntary "casting couch" relationship? I think that's an oxymoron.

If some young Gay stud who is 18 wants to sleep with a Director to get ahead, as far as I'm concerned, that's his choice.

Wants to? Or, is willing to? And if it's just a matter of being willing to, why? For what? Because he wants a job? Because he needs a job to pay for food and rent?

 

And why, in your construction, does he have to be a "gay stud" ... what if he's a nervous, inexperienced 18-year-old with a history of bad decisions ... does that make a difference?

 

When one person has all the power, it raises legitimate questions about wants to vs. willing to, about choice, about consent. Even if both parties are of age.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Yeah, just like that time a president in the 1990s was held to a higher standard.

 

List of accusations over last 40 years.

Juanita Broaddrick (AR)- rape

Eileen Wellstone (Oxford) - rape

Elizabeth Ward Gracen - rape - quid pro quo, post incident intimidation

Regina Hopper Blakely - "forced himself on her, biting, bruising her"

Kathleen Willey (WH) - sexual assault, intimidations, threats

Sandra Allen James (DC) - sexual assault

22 Year Old 1972 (Yale) - sexual assault

Kathy Bradshaw (AK) - sexual assault

Cristy Zercher - unwelcomed sexual advance, intimidations

Paula Jones (AR) - unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault

Carolyn Moffet -unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault

1974 student at University of Arkansas - unwelcomed physical contact

1978-1980 - seven complaints per Arkansas state troopers

Monica Lewinsky - quid pro quo, post incident character assault

Gennifer Flowers - quid pro quo, post incident character assault

Dolly Kyle Browning - post incident character assault

Sally Perdue - post incident threats

Betty Dalton - rebuffed his advances, married to one of his supporters

 

 

[rogerG]

Spacey lives in NY, which has a superb selection of gay escorts-why not just hire?

Famous actors and actresses are notoriously cheap. They tend to believe they deserve everything for free because they're "famous." It should be your pleasure to service them. They are often flooded with free gifts and perks, so it's easy to get spoiled and feel entitled.

[caliguy]

Yeah, just like that time a president in the 1990s was held to a higher standard.

I notice that quite a few of them worked with Republicans and had their own agenda's. The most notable one (Monica Lewinsky) went there willingly and was framed.

[+ sniper]

Is there any such thing as a voluntary "casting couch" relationship? I think that's an oxymoron.

 

I have to think out of 300 million people, there are some willing to sleep with anyone for the prospect of a career worth millions of dollars. I'm not saying that makes it "right" and I am not saying I do not believe the people coming forward now who were not willing. I'm just saying that there are people willing to sleep with someone for $250. Why is it so hard to believe that someone would be willing to give it up for a job paying hundreds to thousands of times that much? Lots of actors seem more interested in being wealthy celebrities than the art of acting. Look at all the people on the reality TV garbage shows out there.

[P Gren]

Yeah, just like that time a president in the 1990s was held to a higher standard.

 

List of accusations over last 40 years.

Juanita Broaddrick (AR)- rape

Eileen Wellstone (Oxford) - rape

Elizabeth Ward Gracen - rape - quid pro quo, post incident intimidation

Regina Hopper Blakely - "forced himself on her, biting, bruising her"

Kathleen Willey (WH) - sexual assault, intimidations, threats

Sandra Allen James (DC) - sexual assault

22 Year Old 1972 (Yale) - sexual assault

Kathy Bradshaw (AK) - sexual assault

Cristy Zercher - unwelcomed sexual advance, intimidations

Paula Jones (AR) - unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault

Carolyn Moffet -unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault

1974 student at University of Arkansas - unwelcomed physical contact

1978-1980 - seven complaints per Arkansas state troopers

Monica Lewinsky - quid pro quo, post incident character assault

Gennifer Flowers - quid pro quo, post incident character assault

Dolly Kyle Browning - post incident character assault

Sally Perdue - post incident threats

Betty Dalton - rebuffed his advances, married to one of his supporters

Why would you think it makes a difference if its a Republican or a Democrat? Wrong is wrong. No one has excused predatory behavior because of politics. This is a red herring of a post, trying to goad someone into an argument that would be a waste of time. It's about predatory behavior. That's all.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Is there any such thing as a voluntary "casting couch" relationship? I think that's an oxymoron.

 

Wants to? Or, is willing to? And if it's just a matter of being willing to, why? For what? Because he wants a job? Because he needs a job to pay for food and rent?

 

And why, in your construction, does he have to be a "gay stud" ... what if he's a nervous, inexperienced 18-year-old with a history of bad decisions ... does that make a difference?

 

When one person has all the power, it raises legitimate questions about wants to vs. willing to, about choice, about consent. Even if both parties are of age.

 

Sure. I'll go there.

 

You could ask the same question about escorts. Does any escort really volunteer to do what they do? Are they really willing? If so, why? Is it because they need the money? Like to pay the rent? And if so, isn't it true that in some sense everyone who hires an escort is forcing them to do something involuntarily?

 

You could take it to the extreme, and argue all sex is rape. Or anything that happens between an escort and a client is inherently forced. After all, why would anyway be paid if it was "consensual?" Doesn't the fact that you are getting something - money, a role in a movie, whatever - indicate that this is, in effect, a form of rape?

 

There are lots of ways to confuse the issue. You could say that unless there is a written agreement indicating affirmative consent, there is no consent. Therefore, it is rape.

 

This is what lawyers are for. You can make any argument you want, in court. You might win, you might lose. But you can argue whatever you want.

 

I once had a tenant apply to rent a room in my house in Portland. He was maybe 21, but he looked 18. I lived across the street from a school. Even though I was open to renting to this guy, he asked me whether that was a school. Once I said it was, he said he couldn't live there. It turned out he was a registered sex offender, and he could not live within a certain distance of certain places, like schools. As I recall, when he was 18 he had a boyfriend who was 15 or 16, and they had sex together. That landed the 18 year old in jail, in part because (as he described it) his boyfriend's parents reported him to the cops and went after him. If he had been 17 rather than 18, he would not have gone to jail. A few months later I ran into this guy - who was not my tenant - and his current boyfriend at Portland Gay Pride. I have no idea how old his boyfriend was, but he looked like he was 15. My point is that the prospective tenant had told me he was always into guys that looked like boys, and that was absolutely clear. The legal definition though, that caused him to end up in jail, is that one of the two was considered a boy, the other an adult. So at the end of the day there are legal definitions for these things.

 

If both guys had been 17, neither would have been adults. This kind of argument was actually used against rentboy - it was alleged that some Asian advertisers may have been underage.

 

You could also argue that, by definition, if a 20 year old man marries a 50 year old man, it is an abusive relationship. You could argue that no 20 year old would marry an "old" man, or no "mature" man would marry an "immature kid."

 

You can also argue whether someone like Keanu Reeves, who was rumored to sleep his way to the top, is a "stud." Is he really a "stud?" Maybe for some people, the young Keanu Reeves did not have sufficient muscle mass to be a "stud." Maybe at the time he was too old, not pretty enough, whatever. My point in using the word "stud" is that the perception is that predators prey on attractive, studly young men. But maybe that's not true. Maybe some predators prefer obese senior citizens.

 

And if you assume Keanu Reeves benefited from a "voluntary" casting couch relationship as an adult, you could argue that is an oxymoron. You could argue that Keanu Reeves was abused, even if he was over 18, and regardless of whether he became a rich movie star. You could argue that David Geffen, who he allegedly "voluntarily" slept with, is an abusive Gay man who preyed on young innocents like Keanu, and that Keanu was raped by Geffen "involuntarily."

 

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. My point is that there are certain legal distinctions that should be clear, relating to age and consent. But maybe not. Your point seems to be that everything is relative, and it is what people want it to be, in their perception.

Edited November 3, 2017 by stevenkesslar

[Whitman]

I have to think out of 300 million people, there are some willing to sleep with anyone for the prospect of a career worth millions of dollars. I'm not saying that makes it "right" and I am not saying I do not believe the people coming forward now who were not willing. I'm just saying that there are people willing to sleep with someone for $250. Why is it so hard to believe that someone would be willing to give it up for a job paying hundreds to thousands of times that much? Lots of actors seem more interested in being wealthy celebrities than the art of acting. Look at all the people on the reality TV garbage shows out there.

You're talking about being willing to do something for a specific advantage. Or because one thinks he has to in order to have/keep that advantage. That may make the encounter something less than rape, something seemingly consensual, but is it voluntary?

 

At least one of the women who has accused Bill O'Reilly talked about a long term sexual relationship she didn't want to have but felt she had to. She didn't accuse O'Reilly of rape. She ... participated ... apparently without yelling, "No! Stop!" And maybe O'Reilly actually believes that the relationship was consensual, that the woman was willing. What she says is that the "relationship" was entirely unwanted on her part. She participated because she feared for her job. I wouldn't call that voluntary.

 

I also wouldn't call sleeping with someone for $250 voluntary. Nor would I call my own job--which I do for a paycheck--voluntary.

[+ sniper]

You're talking about being willing to do something for a specific advantage. Or because one thinks he has to in order to have/keep that advantage. That may make the encounter something less than rape, something seemingly consensual, but is it voluntary?

 

At least one of the women who has accused Bill O'Reilly talked about a long term sexual relationship she didn't want to have but felt she had to. She didn't accuse O'Reilly of rape. She ... participated ... apparently without yelling, "No! Stop!" And maybe O'Reilly actually believes that the relationship was consensual, that the woman was willing. What she says is that the "relationship" was entirely unwanted on her part. She participated because she feared for her job. I wouldn't call that voluntary.

 

I also wouldn't call sleeping with someone for $250 voluntary. Nor would I call my own job--which I do for a paycheck--voluntary.

I didn't say there aren't abusers and I wasn't commenting on any specific case. I said there probably are SOME who more or less happily chalk it up to the cost of doing business.

Powerful people trading money/power for sex will always be with us in some fashion. And it's part of why those who are unwilling participants often struggle to be believed.

[Aaron_Bauder]

Spacey was being whispered about back when I was a kid working on a studio lot. That was a long time ago. Clinton was President. So Netflix got out of dodge before the shoes started dropping, and it's all very predictable.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Why would you think it makes a difference if its a Republican or a Democrat? Wrong is wrong. No one has excused predatory behavior because of politics. This is a red herring of a post, trying to goad someone into an argument that would be a waste of time. It's about predatory behavior. That's all.

 

No, it's not. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If we're going to call out the sitting president for harassment then it's necessary to acknowledge that his predecessors have been accused of similar harassment. To claim that a fictional president is held to a higher standard than the current one is pure BS. Powerful men think they can get away with pretty much anything. Doesn't matter if they are movie producers, actors, journalists, or CEOs, and most especially elected officials.

Edited November 3, 2017 by ArVaGuy

[P Gren]

No, it's not. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If we're going to call out the sitting president for harassment then it's necessary to acknowledge that his predecessors have been accused of similar harassment. To claim that a fictional president is held to a higher standard than the current one is pure BS. Powerful men think they can get away with pretty much anything. Doesn't matter if they are movie producers, actors, journalists, or CEOs, and most especially elected officials.

I didn't hear about the police investigation of Donald Trump's predatory behavior. And this is a distraction. I think people are more concerned about his incompetence and narcissism - which would be a different thread for you to start.

Edited November 3, 2017 by P Gren

[+ José Soplanucas]

Do not get distracted with Trump. We were casting out Spacey. Please, get back on track.

http://www.editoriallapaz.org/apocalipsis_extracto_torturas_autodefe.jpg

[Whitman]

Your point seems to be that everything is relative, and it is what people want it to be, in their perception.

No. That's a delusion of predators, especially powerful predators who use their power and then deny (maybe even to themselves) that there was any coercion involved ... that their victims were willing ... that they volunteered. Repeating what I already posted:

When one person has all the power, it raises legitimate questions about wants to vs. willing to, about choice, about consent. Even if both parties are of age.

Being intimidated into a sexual encounter by a more powerful person -- for whatever reason -- is not volunteering; a victim who doesn't fight back -- for whatever reason -- is not consenting.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Whitman

[+ WilliamM]

Being intimidated into a sexual encounter by a more powerful person -- for whatever reason -- is not volunteering; a victim who doesn't fight back -- for whatever reason -- is not consenting.

 

You and several other people have been the voice of reason throughout this thread. For me, you are one of most impressive people on that site. @Whitman, it's not fake flattery, completely true.

[Kenny]

If there is any judgment I would rush to, it's that when you corner a serial predator, he or she is always going to be unprepared. I guess it goes with the territory that they just don't think this shit through, do they?

There has been a standard line of thought, if that’s not too fancy a word, that the victims of sexual predators were “asking for it.” She was wearing a miniskirt and showing cleavage! He climbed into Spacey’s bed during the party! Etc.

 

In reality, it is the sexual predator who is “asking for it.” Asking to be caught and humiliated. The depths of insecurity and self-loathing that drive a sexual predator to exert bodily power and take total control over another person are fulfilled and confirmed most profoundly by public discovery and disgust. The predator truly is who he believes he is in his deepest, darkest heart.

 

Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, Donald Trump, Bill Cosby, Tyler Grasham...

[Kenny]

Of course, Top Gun had to have the mandatory heterosexual bedroom scene involving Kelly McGillis to prove Tom Cruise wasn't... you know.

Of course, Kelly McGillis is a lesbian, so...

[Kenny]

Do not waste your time. They have their witch to torch. Let them enjoy the blaming.

Spacey is the one who ignited the gay/pedophilia tempest by his calculated decision to muddy the waters through diversion by appending a coming-out paragraph to his apology for an assault he says he doesn’t recall. In effect, he wrote, “I am a witch.”

[Moondance]

First they announced that the next season of House of Cards would be the last. Then they announced that they had suspended production on that season. And now, this from Netflix:

 

1. "Netflix will not be involved with any further production of House of Cards that includes Kevin Spacey." And ...

2. "We have also decided we will not be moving forward with the release of the film Gore, which was in postproduction, starring and produced by Kevin Spacey."

 

Source: The Hollywood Reporter, November 3, 2017

 

Oh the irony. Out of the closet just when no one wants to see or know him anymore.

 

[caliguy]

First they announced that the next season of House of Cards would be the last. Then they announced that they had suspended production on that season. And now, this from Netflix:

 

1. "Netflix will not be involved with any further production of House of Cards that includes Kevin Spacey." And ...

2. "We have also decided we will not be moving forward with the release of the film Gore, which was in postproduction, starring and produced by Kevin Spacey."

 

Source: The Hollywood Reporter, November 3, 2017

 

Oh the irony. Out of the closet just when no one wants to see or know him anymore.

Wow. What a spectacular downfall though. He'll never work in Hollywood again. The upside is that he's worth 80 million so he doesn't have to either.

[Kenny]

Not that I am making any excuses, mind you, but he did apologize. All gays are required to apologize, after all. If you are straight and doing far worse, either Miramax or Murdoch will pay off your legal fees

Harvey Weinstein apologized the day his story broke: “I cannot be more remorseful about the people I hurt.”