Brojobs now a trend

[AdamSmith]

As I always understood it, one of the consequences of gay liberation would be the vanishing of gayness. Once all different ways to express sexuality are equally accepted, it is reasonable to expect the melting of all those categories that oppress us now, and the development of the ability to feel attraction for people beyond gender.

Power to Broevjobs!

THIS!!!

 

I see just these fresh new attitudes among the young -- say, under-25 definitely, and even most under-30 -- men and women escorts alike whom I hire nowadays.

 

And then there is the thought: how 'new' are they, really, in the light of history? We in the U.S. have lived, since the Victorian era, under those rather strange and historically anomalous indeed strictures on 'proper' sexual and relational behavior. Products, in significant part, of the directions that notions of property rights took in the British early and mid Industrial Revolution. There is a view that U.S. society (with many others far advanced beyond us) is now at last rediscovering layers of sanity and realism about sexual relations that were not that remote to us even 150 years back.

[P Gren]

I have a straight friend who every month or so texts me to say he is very horny. We meet up, blow each other and leave. He continues to maintain he is totally straight. I don't care. I like giving and getting.

Some people manage elements of a double life quite well.

[AdamSmith]

Why don't believe he is straight? He may not be into dicks, only into yours. If you think that kind of people don't exist, you need to hit the streets. (I am using the impersonal "you", not addressing you, @Chuckball ).

I had a dear friend like that in NYC. He loved me not romantically, but as a friend. I was not 'in love' with him romantically either. But that bridge of friendship made the blowjobs I gave him meaningful to both of us.

 

He was Puerto Rican, and I think it is an observed fact that men from many countries of Hispanic cultural origin know who they are, and are far less hung up with 'orientation' anxieties and insecurities than people originally of European -- especially English/Scots/Irish (my own forebears) -- lineage.

[+ FreshFluff]

THIS!!!

 

I see just these fresh new attitudes among the young -- say, under-25 definitely, and even most under-30 -- men and women escorts alike whom I hire nowadays.

 

And then there is the thought: how 'new' are they, really, in the light of history? We in the U.S. have lived, since the Victorian era, under those rather strange and historically anomalous indeed strictures on 'proper' sexual and relational behavior. Products, in significant part, of the directions that notions of property rights took in the British early and mid Industrial Revolution. There is a view that U.S. society (with many others far advanced beyond us) is now at last rediscovering layers of sanity and realism about sexual relations that were not that remote to us even 150 years back.

 

I understand @latbear4blk 's point, but I think that "straight, gay, bi" is a useful set of classifications. It allows us to sort ourselves so that we can more quickly find people with complementary interests. Would you really like to go on a dating app and end up seeing a bunch of men who may not even be interested in other men?

 

If a man wants to have sex with other men but identify as straight or if a gay man wants to try having sex with women, that's his prerogative.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I understand @latbear4blk 's point, but I think that "straight, gay, bi" is a useful set of classifications. It allows us to sort ourselves so that we can more quickly find people with complementary interests. Would you really like to go on a dating app and end up seeing a bunch of men who may not even be interested in other men?

 

If a man wants to have sex with other men but identify as straight or if a gay man wants to try having sex with women, that's his prerogative.

 

Nop, Fresh, you are trapped in your sexual identity logic. I can imagine an app and a world where people would feel attraction beyond gender labels.

[AdamSmith]

I understand @latbear4blk 's point, but I think that "straight, gay, bi" is a useful set of classifications. It allows us to sort ourselves so that we can more quickly find people with complementary interests. Would you really like to go on a dating app and end up seeing a bunch of men who may not even be interested in other men?

 

If a man wants to have sex with other men but identify as straight or if a gay man wants to try having sex with women, that's his prerogative.

Y0u are an academic.

 

Yet you readily accept 'straight' and 'gay' and their many ilk as objective, unquestionable categories of fixed reality.

 

Untouchable by either fluidity within an individual person's identity across the course of a life, which slow shifting across orientations has long now been accepted as a commonplace by the research community; or by the shifting course of historicity-specific location of an individual person feeling an emotion or lust within his or her context of cultural times, settings, constructions.

 

Have you not read one single word by Foucault; or Bourdieu; or such as William M. Reddy (one studied, very productively, under him, very early in his career at Duke); or Eco, somewhat different but not really that different, see his great source Charles Sanders Pierce; or Peter Gay whom again one had (this is getting immodest but sourcing calls for it) there in New Haven; or dozens and dozens of similar others?

 

The amygdala is the least part of it.

 

P.S. The amygdala, come to think just this moment, really seems to have pretty puny resources to deploy against enacting all the impulses that those, after all, pretty compelling cerebrum- and then cerebellum-driven forces call forth from it.

 

Poor thing!

[+ José Soplanucas]

Y0u are an academic.

 

Yet you readily accept 'straight' and 'gay' and their many ilk as objective, unquestionable categories of fixed reality.

 

Untouchable by either fluidity within an individual across the course of a life; or by the shifting course of historicity-specific location of an individual feeling an emotion or lust within his or her context of cultural times, settings, constructions.

 

Have you not read one single word by Foucault; or Bourdieu; or such as William M. Reddy (one studied, very productively, under him, very early in his career at Duke); or Eco, somewhat different but not really that different, see his great source Charles Sanders Pierce; or Peter Gay whom again one had (this is getting immodest but sourcing calls for it) there in New Haven; or dozens and dozens of similar others?

 

The amygdala is the least part of it.

 

Let me add the works of Nestor Perlongher, the father of Latin American Queer Theory.

[AdamSmith]

Let me add the works of Nestor Perlongher, the father of Latin American Queer Theory.

Thank you! I must investigate. I knew the name but have been lazy about seeing into.

[+ José Soplanucas]

@AdamSmith He is more recognized as a poet, but he did amazing anthropologic field studies in Brazil, researching male street prostitutes. Here you have an article about his more important anthropologic book:

 

https://www.questia.com/library/journal/1G1-301775325/mapping-the-gay-ghetto-perlongher-s-o-negocio-do

[+ FreshFluff]

Y0u are an academic.

 

Yet you readily accept 'straight' and 'gay' and their many ilk as objective, unquestionable categories of fixed reality.

 

Untouchable by either fluidity within an individual person's identity across the course of a life, which slow shifting across orientations has long now been accepted as a commonplace by the research community; or by the shifting course of historicity-specific location of an individual feeling an emotion or lust within his or her context of cultural times, settings, constructions.

 

Have you not read one single word by Foucault; or Bourdieu; or such as William M. Reddy (one studied, very productively, under him, very early in his career at Duke); or Eco, somewhat different but not really that different, see his great source Charles Sanders Pierce; or Peter Gay whom again one had (this is getting immodest but sourcing calls for it) there in New Haven; or dozens and dozens of similar others?

 

The amygdala is the least part of it.

 

I didn't say that sexual orientation is fixed. People who shift across orientations would fit into whatever category describes them at that time. (I'm referring to sexual orientation here, not gender identity.) That said, I feel self conscious about dictating labels to people who don't want to be labelled.

 

I also think the stigma on bisexuality plays a role here.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I didn't say that sexual orientation is fixed. People who shift across orientations would fit into whatever category describes them at that time. (I'm referring to sexual orientation here, not gender identity.) That said, I feel self conscious about dictating labels to people who don't want to be labelled.

 

Dear, your labels affect more yourself than me.

[+ FreshFluff]

Dear, your labels affect more yourself than me.

 

In what way?

[+ José Soplanucas]

In what way?

 

Your thinking keeps you trapped in your binary logic and your imagination cannot fly to understand the beauty of a fluid sexuality.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/210d11c65b24f6ef099c7521ce2044c7/tumblr_mymjoquSHm1slwrsuo1_400.gif

[Good Grief]

[AdamSmith]

I didn't say that sexual orientation is fixed. People who shift across orientations would fit into whatever category describes them at that time. (I'm referring to sexual orientation here, not gender identity.) That said, I feel self conscious about dictating labels to people who don't want to be labelled.

 

I also think the stigma on bisexuality plays a role here.

Your categorization of it all as 'stigmatization' I think gives the whole story away.

 

It's yours, personally not professionally. That is absolutely an intellectual categorization, not a personal one; I will, and would not ever, do that. And, again, see Foucault, Bourdiuex and Peirce: all are essential. You know them professionally; do the work and report back.

[AdamSmith]

Your categorization of it all as 'stigmatization' I think gives the whole story away.

 

It's yours, personally not professionally. That is absolutely an intellectual categorization, not a personal one; I will, and would not ever, do that. And, again, see Foucault, Bourdiuex and Peirce: all are essential. You know them professionally; do the work and report back.

Actually I just said above the exact wrong thing:

 

What you said is ENTIRELY personal.

 

Wasn't it?

[+ FreshFluff]

Your categorization of it all as 'stigmatization' I think gives the whole story away.

 

 

Wait, what? You yourself once posted a bisexuality bingo that focused on this very topic. It was very similar to this.

 

http://i.imgur.com/09Gl6KN.jpg

[AdamSmith]

Wait, what? You yourself once posted a bisexuality bingo that focused on this very topic. It was very similar to this.

 

http://i.imgur.com/09Gl6KN.jpg

Have you never read Swift? Or, close to ham-referenced above, Wilde?

 

Or, god forbid, Swinburne?

[P Gren]

Nop, Fresh, you are trapped in your sexual identity logic. I can imagine an app and a world where people would feel attraction beyond gender labels.

We are a long way from that yet. We are no more post-gender than we are post-racial. And those aren't really going to melt away until a lot of social/economic power imbalances are solved. Nice thought though.

[+ FreshFluff]

Have you never read Swift? Or, close to ham-referenced above, Wilde?

 

Or, god forbid, Swinburne?

 

The bingo image is intended to poke fun at the stereotypes people associate with bisexual people. Can we agree on that?

 

You appear to view my statement about the stigmatization of bisexuality as normative.

[+ sniper]

35%? where is that number from?

My ass, mostly.

 

But also a vague recollection I'd seen somewhere that estimates of people who had some level of same-sex attraction was between 30 and 40%, which kind of tracked with the percentage of prison inmates that fool around, so I found it credible. Now that also counts people whose interest is so low they are not likely to feel moved to explore it in "mainstream" society.

[AdamSmith]

The bingo image is intended to poke fun at the stereotypes people associate with bisexual people. Can we agree on that?

 

You appear to view my statement about the stigmatization of bisexuality as normative.

It is your acceptance and normativization of such a category as 'bisexual' that I find not in accordance with current research- and evidence-based understanding of the involved phenomena.

[+ FreshFluff]

My ass, mostly.

 

But also a vague recollection I'd seen somewhere that estimates of people who had some level of same-sex attraction was between 30 and 40%, which kind of tracked with the percentage of prison inmates that fool around, so I found it credible. Now that also counts people whose interest is so low they are not likely to feel moved to explore it in "mainstream" society.

 

Kinsey estimated that about 40% of men had had same sex experiences at some point, but there were huge issues with his sampling technique.

[+ sniper]

It is your normativization of such a category as 'bisexual' that I find not in accordance with current research- and evidence-based understanding of the involved phenomena.

I think of the term bisexual as basically an "all other" - it doesn't mean 50/50 attraction. It just means not 100% gay nor 100% straight.

[+ FreshFluff]

It is your normativization of such a category as 'bisexual' that I find not in accord with current evidence-based understanding.

 

Earlier, you said you had an issue with my statement about stigma. That was what I was responding to over the last few posts.

 

As for the rest, I'm not contesting your point that orientions can change over time. The debate is about what category, if any, should be applied to people whose orientations change--or to anyone at all. I gave my own impression, but my word isn't law.