Penn State frat members face manslaughter charges in hazing case

[TruthBTold]

Ace you have obviously done a great done with your children and we all know it is not that easy. However, it was very hard to appreciate those facts when my mind could hardly get past thoughts of you with a group of several other built, testosterone laden fellow students living in very close quarters and just having to walk into a fellow house member's room to be "hazed".

[+ TylerandAce]

Ace you have obviously done a great done with your children and we all know it is not that easy. However, it was very hard to appreciate those facts when my mind could hardly get past thoughts of you with a group of several other built, testosterone laden fellow students living in very close quarters and just having to walk into a fellow house member's room to be "hazed".

And it was usually done with few clothes...initiation was naked! .

[TruthBTold]

And it was usually done with few clothes...initiation was naked! .

 

(Please hear the sound of a body slumping to the ground, hand against the forehead)

[+ TylerandAce]

(Please hear the sound of a body slumping to the ground, hand against the forehead)

Lol...unfortunately I was SO straight at the time!! Yeah, right

[Kippy]

Think of the happy day at the big house when all that "frat boy" ass is paraded around for welcome. Hazing will take on a new daily meaning for these college boys!

 

Kipp

[samhexum]

More than a dozen members of a Penn State University frat are facing additional charges in the highly-publicized hazing death of Tim Piazza after investigators were able to retrieve deleted surveillance footage, prosecutors announced Monday. Investigators were quick to add that TylerandAce's kid had nothing to do with any improper behavior and remains a source of pride for his parents and school.

 

Piazza, a 19-year-old sophomore from New Jersey, died after tumbling down a flight of stairs and fracturing his skull during an alcohol-fueled pledge ritual at the Beta Theta Pi house on Feb. 4.

 

Flanked by Piazza's parents, Centre County district attorney Stacy Parks Miller told reporters that 12 new defendants, as well as five old ones, were facing new criminal charges, including involuntary manslaughter, hazing and giving alcohol to minors. The new charges are based on surveillance footage that authorities managed to recover after a frat brother deleted it. Another 11 frat members are already facing similar charges.

 

"It's time to man up, fellas, and be held accountable for your actions," Piazza's father, James, told reporters, his voice cracking.

 

Piazza's tragic death made national headlines after it was revealed that frat members didn't alert authorities until about 12 hours after he fell down the stairs. Before the fall, Piazza had been forced to consume at least 18 drinks in less than an hour and a half, according to prosecutors.

 

"Brothers were coming up to him and giving him those drinks," Miller said.

 

When Piazza was finally brought to the hospital on Feb. 3, he had a damaged spleen. He was pronounced dead less than 24 hours later.

 

The Beta Theta Pi house was shut down shortly after Piazza's death and remains empty.

[TruthBTold]

For some reason I would think there would have to be some sort of conspiracy charge. At some point they had to know he was injured and they conspired not to notify the police or get immediate medical help. Things will not go well for them.

[+ sniper]

If most of them were passed out drunk themselves it's not clear they could form the intent. This is one of those things where some of them are definitely guilty of something but pinning it on specific members is trickier.

[+ WilliamM]

I lived close to a Penn State frat house in State College, PA many years ago.

 

The pledges were treated very badly then, and apparently nothing has changed.

 

Given the length of this thread and the positive comments about fraternities, I have to be more blunt about Penn State years ago.

 

It was not unusual to see a bloody and hurt pledge wandering around my street in State College, PA. Looking back, I deeply regret not notifying the police. I attended a Jesuit university that did not allow fraternities, so I was shocked by what I saw.

 

To @TylerandAce, you do not have to belong to a fraternity to have lifetime bonds with your classmates. I audited classes at the University of Pennsylvania for 11 years (2006-2016), and only remember one Jewish student who belonged to a fraternity. I believe Penn has the most Jewish students of any Ivy university.

 

Since I do all the reading in courses, it's very easy to get to know the students, despite the large age difference.

Edited November 13, 2017 by WilliamM

[+ sniper]

Given the length of this thread and the positive comments about fraternities, I have to be more blunt about Penn State years ago.

 

It was not unusual to see a bloody and hurt pledge wandering around my street in State College, PA. Looking back, I deeply regret not notifying the police. I attended a Jesuit university that did not allow fraternities, so I was shocked by what I saw.

 

To @TylerandAce, you do not have to belong to a fraternity to have lifetime bonds with your classmates. I audited classes at the University of Pennsylvania for 11 years (2006-2016), and only remember one Jewish student who belonged to a fraternity. I believe Penn has the most Jewish students of any Ivy university.

 

Since I do all the reading in courses, it's very easy to get to know the students, despite the large age difference.

There are fraternities that are predominantly Jewish. In fact, there was a mini-scandal at MIT in the early 1990s when the national of AEPi "reorganized" the MIT chapter ostensibly because they had a keg or something, then re-invited all of the Jewish brothers plus one non-Jew and kicked the other 70% of the house out.

[+ TylerandAce]

Given the length of this thread and the positive comments about fraternities, I have to be more blunt about Penn State years ago.

 

It was not unusual to see a bloody and hurt pledge wandering around my street in State College, PA. Looking back, I deeply regret not notifying the police. I attended a Jesuit university that did not allow fraternities, so I was shocked by what I saw.

 

To @TylerandAce, you do not have to belong to a fraternity to have lifetime bonds with your classmates. I audited classes at the University of Pennsylvania for 11 years (2006-2016), and only remember one Jewish student who belonged to a fraternity. I believe Penn has the most Jewish students of any Ivy university.

 

Since I do all the reading in courses, it's very easy to get to know the students, despite the large age difference.

I’m not sure where the Jewish angle entered, but there are Jews in fraternities...even in Mississippi. Gays and blacks, too. I spent two years as an independent on campus before I pledged. I have lots of very close friends who deplore Greek organizations and couldn’t understand why I wanted to be involved. I just didn’t care what they thought and decided to make up my own mind from first-hand experience. I’m still friends with them and with my brothers. It’s possible to have a foot in both.

 

That being said, crimes were committed at Penn State and those men deserve to pay a heavy price.

[Derrick Rigg]

Agreed. They men need to be held accountable. Deaths like this have been going on since the 1980s and no frat organization is taking permanent changes to address this issue head on.

[+ WilliamM]

That being said, crimes were committed at Penn State and those men deserve to pay a heavy price.

 

Since my only real experience with fraternities is 18 months at Penn State, what other conclusion could I make.

 

Yes, I did attend fraternity parties at the University of Virginia.

And I probably should know more about fraternities and Jewish students at Penn before writing anything.

[+ quoththeraven]

WTF? These two situations have essentially nothing in common, except that they both involved fraternities. The Duke case was a complete fabrication, and the only crimes were the filing of false police reports, the perjury, and the prosecutorial and police misconduct. In this case, the frat brothers killed a promising young man, and callously left his body to rot overnight, when a call to 911 might have saved the man's life. I hope the perps rot in prison--and get raped a number of times while they're there. Their lives should be completely ruined. Never in my life would I behave in such a horrid fashion--not even when I was a college undergraduate. Those frat bros are repulsive excuses for human beings. Immaturity, my ass. It's just sociopathy.

I'm sorry, how is more abuse (rape) going to help? Or is rape no longer rape if the victim is not innocent?

 

My perspective on fraternities is similar to yours, but your suggestion that he should be raped is morally inconsistent.

[+ quoththeraven]

There is at least one national Jewish fraternity.

 

The question is how likely the fraternity system is to be abused., they're not all bad, but I'm not sure it's only a matter of bad apples and reform.

 

Probably it depends on the campus and the extent to which a particular fraternity is primarily a healthy, mature community or a place to party. The vigilance @TylerandAce describes is a lot of work. I doubt every fraternity is willing to go that far.

[samhexum]

My son is a 4.0 student in the most difficult major on campus...

 

and the day he left for college...

[+ TylerandAce]

Yes, that’s his thought process about most things in which he’s involved. Lol

[Bearofdistinction]

These situations are horrible, for everyone involved.

 

Unfortunately, it's been going on for as long as I can remember.

 

It's easy to blame the brothers....but there are so many other

factors involved. At the end of the day, they're just a bunch of

immature morons in their early 20's.

 

I wish I could take the moral highroad and say I was different,

but I wasn't....I was just a whole hell of a lot luckier.

 

Yes they are in there teens and 20s - but even 3 year olds are able to call 911 when someone is in trouble - Falling down a flight of steps head first then not moving is a good indication that something is wrong.

[+ sniper]

I recall reading in some psychology book that people who had been through hazing tended to score HIGHER on various tests of psychological well-being. Now many would argue that's a problem with the test, but there are those who believe in the "that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger" stuff and that is probably why hazing persists in so many group situations.

[TruthBTold]

I recall reading in some psychology book that people who had been through hazing tended to score HIGHER on various tests of psychological well-being. Now many would argue that's a problem with the test, but there are those who believe in the "that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger" stuff and that is probably why hazing persists in so many group situations.

 

I think it is the same instinct that used for sexual assault. The hazers seek power over someone and this quenches it for a time. And the fact that it is in a group both enhances it and also makes them feel as there is less of a chance of getting caught (if indeed they even feel there is something wrong in doing it).

[samhexum]

My son is a 4.0 student in the most difficult major on campus, he serves in elected office for the student body, and keeps a part-time job in addition to everything else... My son’s life revolves around his brothers and I have seen him grow into a wonderful, caring, sensitive, others-focused man...

 

[+ azdr0710]

since it wasn't posted yet, the latest on the case....developments last month and since:

 

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pennsylvania/penn-state-hazing-death-timothy-piazza-state-appeals-dismissals-20180426.html

[Guest]

It's pretty amazing that a judge can just dismiss such serious charges, resulting in someone's death no less. If I had a son who had been killed by those frat members, and the judge just dismissed the charges, I don't know what I might do...

[+ quoththeraven]

Pennsylvania's involuntary manslaughter statute says:

 

2504. Involuntary manslaughter.

 

(a) General rule.--A person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when as a direct result of the doing of an unlawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, or the doing of a lawful act in a reckless or grossly negligent manner, he causes the death of another person.

 

(b) Grading.--Involuntary manslaughter is a misdemeanor of the first degree. Where the victim is under 12 years of age and is in the care, custody or control of the person who caused the death, involuntary manslaughter is a felony of the second degree.

 

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=25&sctn=4&subsctn=0&mobile_choice=suppress

 

So in Pennsylvania, involuntary manslaughter has to rest on an act of commission, not an act of omission. What happened here may well meet the definition of a lesser included charge. I invite everyone else to go digging for what that might be, which will take more effort than googling "involuntary manslaughter PA" did.

[+ E.T.Bass]

So sad to hear about continuing tragedies. I just finished watching the Frat Boys documentary on Netflix. I'd be afraid to let my kid get near a fraternity.

 

As a new hire out of college I was suspicious of coworkers that made a point of their Greek history. On campus we judged Greek life as contemptible and selfish. I still have ill feelings towards their behavior. They claim to carry on their traditions into the business world, as if that is a good thing. How can they expect to be looked upon as noble? The hazing and their selfish nature towards the rest of students on campus was nothing to be proud of. Still, some want to wear that kind of behavior as a badge of honor.

 

I was bombarded with invitations to visit and pledge but somehow knew not to try. I'm glad I didn't.