Addiction Treatment

[MikeBiDude]

The Higher Power bullshit is an entire ridiculous product of AA having been cooked up in the 1930s, by two lay not even doctors, based on what tattered remains of the very real, very spiritually valid Cain Ridge Revival in the 1830s yet still lived so very many decades longer still in the American spirit. And yet today!

 

That very great Americanization of Christianity was welcome, needed, and indeed required!

 

But AA is not. It is only and horribly a "Church" that wants to preserve and extend its power, against the face of all clinical evidence that its "principles" are a vastly, deadly, connivance against the interests of its sincere, needing, desperate supplicants.

 

A more horrible power play -- for no benefit whatever to its "winners" -- has seldom ever been seen.

Well...agree to disagree on this one?

[wisconsinguy]

Well...agree to disagree on this one?

I have been one of the "recovering" group for decades. My many drug/alcohol addiction have ravaged my life in many ways, ie: multiple overdoses, diverting controlled substances, lying to health providers, (I was good at this), lying to family and friends, going to prison for 2 1/2 years, and a marriage ending of over 40 years. And yet, I came away with a former wife and 5 children who still love me, a job that I love, and I believe my patients love me. I found great friends and someone to love the forum.

Sooo, where I'm I going with this little personal epilogue?

I believe that it's our power, and our power alone,

to make the decision to become and abstain from our addictions. In the throes of using, that power starts to reduce. We may have to be aided for a few days, but once the fog

starts to lift, tbat power returns to me. Regarding support mtgs. I am an atheist. Always new it from when I could question it. I also at intervals, one for about 2 1/2 yrs, I attended a support group. It was really easy on my non-belief side. I didn't use the word God

and didn't say the Lord's prayer. So why did I go? There were a group of 6 or so that are great people that I simply liked. Good, kind, bright, and not bible thumpers! I will use a quote from one of the members. He was a staunch AA supporter and had been clean for over 40 years. His comment one day... "I don't care how anyone gets clean. If they want to get off the booze, and we can help them, we should." That's what I think support groups should be about!!!

How anyone decides to take on their addictions, will be a matter of choices. AND, constantly weighing your own definition of wants and needs.

My personal saga could fill volumes. I won't, but to say this. A therapist that I believe to be one of the best said, " I truly believe if you hadn't found drugs, you would have killed yourself." I hadn't seen the toddler I care for about a week. When I was getting him dressed after his bath, we were laughing a lot over goofy things. He stopped for a few seconds, leaned over and just rested his head on my chest for several seconds, and then gave me a mess of kisses on my cheek. I'm still a bit overwhelmed. As Julie Andrews said, (only using guy), "How lucky can a guy get?"

All may good thoughts to those that want to leave there addictions in the past, bravo to those who found their answers!

Edited April 26, 2017 by wisconsinguy

[AdamSmith]

Well...agree to disagree on this one?

Sure.

 

Ditto on laudanum, leeches and bloodletting, dunking women to test for witchcraft...

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by AdamSmith

[Kenny]

Generally speaking, the addict's core belief: "I am the piece of shit at the center of the universe."

 

The false "piece of shit" half is a mental health problem, which is addressed through therapy.

 

The false "center of the universe" half is a spiritual problem, which 12-step addresses.

 

Belief in "God" is irrelevant to relieving either the mental health problem or the spiritual problem.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Kenny

[MikeBiDude]

Sure.

 

Ditto on laudanum, leeches and bloodletting, dunking women to test for witchcraft...

 

And political fantasies too...but that's for another area of the forum

[Rudynate]

I do not understand his second sentence either. Perhaps it is a core belief of AA.

 

 

There are no core beliefs in AA. There are a lot of truisms and maxims that you hear over and over again - "stinking thinking," "one day at a time," "alchoholism is an equal-opportunity illness," "don't get too hungry, angry, lonely or tired," etc. etc., but they are not "core beliefs." Even the 12 steps are not beliefs, but decisions or actions that one takes on the road to recovery. AA also has 12 traditions that are principles by which the AA organization conducts itself.

[Rudynate]

I don't think that I am being grandiose. I'm just saying that because I'm an atheist I have trouble with the concept of a higher power when it is interpreted as that being God. The Serenity Prayer begins with God. That's a turnoff for me. I prefer to think that my God is personal and the power to change is within myself. And I'm not saying I AM God or that I realm over over others. Now THAT is grandiosity!

 

Even atheists usually have no issue with the notion that the AA group is a higher power.

[Rudynate]

The Higher Power bullshit is an entire ridiculous product of AA having been cooked up in the 1930s, by two lay not even doctors, based on what tattered remains of the very real, very spiritually valid Cain Ridge Revival in the 1830s yet still lived so very many decades longer still in the American spirit. And yet today!

 

 

AA was an offshoot of the Oxford Group movement.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Rudynate

[Rudynate]

The Higher Power bullshit is an entire ridiculous product of AA having been cooked up in the 1930s, by two lay not even doctors.

 

Incorrect. Dr. Bob was a physician. And in the early days of AA, much of his service work involved attending to the health-care needs of newly-sober alcoholics.

[+ WilliamM]

There are no core beliefs in AA.

 

I understand. Thank you, @Rudynate.

[AdamSmith]

Even atheists usually have no issue with the notion that the AA group is a higher power.

THIS is true.

[LADoug1]

Even atheists usually have no issue with the notion that the AA group is a higher power.

 

I'm cool if the AA group is the higher power. But when you call the higher power God I'm not with the program.

[Rocky93]

I'm cool if the AA group is the higher power. But when you call the higher power God I'm not with the program.

 

I always suggest to people using a small network of sober people a higher power because they can many times help us see things about ourselves that we are blinded to and can help us make better decisions and also call us out on our bullshit. For those who believe in a God, this hopefully would lead them there. For those who don't, there is no problem remaining with others or even the group or the program being the higher power ( I just don't believe that crap about a chair or a tree being a higher power)

[MikeBiDude]

Note the use of the word "sometimes". Reflecting on a higher power "as you understand it" works for many, many people.

 

"Higher Power is a term coined in the 1930s in Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and is used in other twelve-step programs. ... It is also sometimes referred to as a power greater than ourselves.... The term sometimes refers to a supreme being or deity, or some conception of God"

[Rudynate]

Note the use of the word "sometimes". Reflecting on a higher power "as you understand it" works for many, many people.

 

"Higher Power is a term coined in the 1930s in Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and is used in other twelve-step programs. ... It is also sometimes referred to as a power greater than ourselves.... The term sometimes refers to a supreme being or deity, or some conception of God"

 

Lots of people in AA have sort of a vague, quasi-agnostic idea of a higher power and it seems to work for them. I don't have a real clear idea of what a higher power is for me, and I haven't drank alcohol in over 35 years, so it seems to have worked, such as it is.

[Rudynate]

I'm cool if the AA group is the higher power. But when you call the higher power God I'm not with the program.

 

It's surprising what you can put up with with a little willingness. My first exposure to AA was at the York Street Club in Denver, somewhat famous in AA circles. Drag queens, bikers, investment bankers, skid row drunks soccer moms and bull dykes attended the same meetings and found a way to get along.

[Scottmm]

Modern technology evolves, and today we can use new devices to fight with our old enemies, like drug or alcohol addiction. The DBS chip can help win against this addiction, but I'm very skeptical. The chip doesn't help to solve the psychological problems, and it can be a worse decision than a classic treatment in the clinic. Modern technologies can be dangerous, and we should never forget about the Terminator scenario, haha. In my opinion, the better treatment today can provide modern clinics like Abbeycare, not chipping all people with addiction.
 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Scottmm