Advice, Please

[Ryan]

I have a situation for which I am asking advice. Please help.

I have been a regular with a guy for about 5-6 years. We connect about once a month, and its almost always for an 24-hour period. The money that gets exchanged between us is casual. By that, I mean that I typically give him anywhere between $1100 - $1600 a month. We have a good time, and in many ways, we have become friends. A few months ago, he mentioned that we are fuck buddies and that I just happen to be helping him out financially. Well... not sure we'd be fuck buddies if there wasn't the financial help.

Anyway, I am forseeing some significant changes in my financial situation in the next couple months and I am not going to be able to continue this arrangement. I simply have other pressing matters (helping my single-mother sister try to get out from under some serious debt).

The problem is that I know my "fuck buddy" has become dependent on the money I pay him. In many ways, he's pretty lazy and seems satisfied with just getting by. I have avoided since day one telling him how to live his life or how to plan. I made one attempt at it and it was very clear from his response that I was over-stepping a boundary.

He used to have a boyfriend (an older guy) who understood his relationship with me. My "fuck buddy" was/is and escort, but he now says I am the only person whom he sees. I think that this is true. He split up with his boyfriend about a year ago, and through the grapevine, I found out that my "fuck buddy" tried to sue him for palimony. They had only been together for two years, and my connection with this fellow has been considerably longer.

So, I'm worried. I don't know how to end this without it causing me a lot of embarrassing and public problems. My instincts are telling me to be very careful. In truth, I have been wanting to end this relationship for over a year, but have been unwilling to really confront what it will take.

I totally own that I got myself into this situation. Truth be told, I am concerned about how he will manage financially. But more than that, I need to make a clean break. Any suggestions? I'm pretty sure that I'll get some stern talk or lecture here, but what I really need is some sound advice.

Thank you guys. I need your wisdom and experience.

[Guest RandyRon]

First, cover your ass and talk to a lawyer.

[trilingual]

I don't suppose there's anything you could do to forestall a palimony suit, but I don't think it would go far. You haven't been living together, you're not considered a couple by everyone who knows you, you haven't referred to him as your lover to your friends/acquaintances. There aren't a lot of indicia of the type of relationship that could justify a palimony suit.

 

I'd give him 30-days notice that the money is being decreased or eliminated. That should give him time to make alternative plans, like finding a legitimate paying job or going back into escorting, or both.

[happyguy2]

You are right, tri, but I must admit, after reading this, that small conversation where he told him he was a fuck buddy that gave him financial help is very troubling. Maybe he should consult a lawyer, given past behavior and the manner in which he told him he ws a fuck buddy....

 

What do our lawyers from this board think? It will be helpful to many on this board....

 

hg

[woodlawn]

>The problem is that I know my "fuck buddy" has become

>dependent on the money I pay him. In many ways, he's pretty

>lazy and seems satisfied with just getting by. I have avoided

>since day one telling him how to live his life or how to plan.

> I made one attempt at it and it was very clear from his

>response that I was over-stepping a boundary. He used to have a boyfriend (an older guy) who understood his

>relationship with me. My "fuck buddy" was/is and escort, but

>he now says I am the only person whom he sees. I think that

>this is true. He split up with his boyfriend about a year

>ago, and through the grapevine, I found out that my "fuck

>buddy" tried to sue him for palimony.

 

>So, I'm worried. I don't know how to end this without it

>causing me a lot of embarrassing and public problems.

 

There is no way to prevent someone from suing you, whether or not he has any legal basis for doing so. The one thing you can try is to make a formal settlement agreement with him under which you give him some sort of "severance" payment in return for his promise to give up any and all claims he may have against you forever. That still won't prevent him from suing you if he changes his mind later, but it will mean that a subsequent suit brought by him will be dismissed right away and he will get nothing else from you. Such an agreement should be in writing of course, drawn up by a lawyer who is expert in the law of domestic relations in your state.

 

It should not be impossible to persuade him to sign such an agreement if the facts are as you have described. If he has no money of his own, it may not be easy for him to find an attorney who will agree to front all the money for a palimony suit. Unless you cave in to such a suit, it could be a very long, drawn out affair, and in the meantime he would be getting nothing. Don't forget that publicity cuts both ways -- if your buddy becomes known as someone who files palimony suits, no one with any money will be willing to hook up with him in the future. Your buddy may well agree that it would be better for him to get some money now, rather than go through all that and perhaps end up with nothing.

 

Failing such an agreement, the only thing you can do is put together whatever evidence you can to counter any suit he might bring in the future so that you would win. Again, you should consult an expert domestic relations attorney about the law regarding palimony in your state, and he can tell you how to go about that. Generally speaking, courts grant palimony where it is demonstrated that one person has made a promise of continuing support in order to induce the other person to remain in the relationship, and especially where the person receiving the support has given up other financial opportunities in reliance on the promise of support. You would need to be able to come up with evidence to counter any such assertion in order to win. For more, see your own attorney.

[skins1]

well if he doesn't sue you he may, (depending on how well he knows you and knows about your life) he may go a different route: the public route. he may try to embarrase you on the job, in your personal life. he may try to bribe you. i guess you have to think of all these things. hopefully he's a nice guy and will understand your situation though.

[joel304]

>There is no way to prevent someone from suing you, whether or not he has any legal basis for doing so.<

 

Very true Ryan.

 

>The one thing you can try is to make a formal settlement agreement with him under which you give him some sort of "severance" payment in return for his promise to give up any and all claims he may have against you forever.<

 

I would not recommend this. I would put nothing in writing. I would, however, suggest that you phone him (recorded, if allowed in your state) and tell him that due to personal reasons, you no longer want to be in contact with him. If any threatening words or situations occur as a result, you have grounds for a Restraining Order (which can be applied for cheaply, and accomplished without counsel) to prevent future communication. This will (assuming that it is granted, and respected) protect you from harassment at work, home, or in public.

 

I would plan your actions based upon your initial response from the TELEPHONE conversation. If you came to me with this (which I am not advocating, or accepting) issue, having previously received threats of litigation from your "fuck buddy," I would send a letter to him outlining our countersuit intentions. In addition, I might intimate our option of pursuing charges against him for extortion and prostitution, while subtly reminding him how local papers often print these charges in their local section.

 

However, should you receive threats, consult counsel in your area. Good luck.

 

P.S. I wouldn't necessarily believe that there was a previous lawsuit. Maybe a threat of one? He would have a hard time convincing an attorney to take the case, contingent upon a future settlement. These cases are expensive if they go to trial. For instance, I would require an initial retainer of $10,000 to take on this case for trial. I can't imagine a semi-retired prostitute financing this suit. Nor can I imagine an attorney representing him contingent upon payment from a future, very doubtful settlement.

 

Joel

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Wow, what excellent advice from both Woodlawn (as usual) and Joel. Its nice to see others offering their expertise and time here to help someone out. I cant help but feel that if this guy actually is a threat and subsequently follows through on this threat, it's important to be prepared to take immediate and swift action. I agree with Joel, feel this guy out as quickly as possible and be prepared with an immediate response. I believe that with scum, intimidation, based on a well thought out plan is effective. If this guy smells weakness on your part, it will be like blood in the atlantic during feeding hours. Obviously, through your kindness and generousity, you have created your own worst monster. This will be the second time this week I have said this, but here goes....No good deed goes unpunished. I wish you well.

[Luv2play]

The first thing I would do is decide whether you truly want to sever relations with this guy. You have been seeing him for over 5 years and you must have some emotional bonds. Can you analyse how these will be affected by a permanent rupture?

 

Secondly, you must take into account that you have been providing him with an income of between $13,000 and $19,000 a year TAX FREE. Many people live on this amount and it is evident your "fuck buddy" is doing just that. A sudden cessation of payments is going to cause him major discomfiture.

 

Thirdly, you must know how this guy is going to react to a decision to cut him off, physically and financially. Is he the aggressive type? Do his actions regarding his former fuck buddy/boyfriend represent a likely pattern of action towards you?

 

Fourthly, consider your own circumstances carefully. You say you are going to be tight over the next couple of months. Is this going to persist? Do you have a lot of assets that are liquid (eg. money in the bank, stocks and bonds) or is most of your wealth tied up in your home, car, pension, IRA's and other illiquid assets.

 

Similarly, how secure is your employment, are you self-employed or are you in a sensitive occupation such as school teacher? Are you in a small town?

 

What about your fuck buddy? How old is he? Does he have much education? I know you have said he is lazy but if he had to, is there some type of gainful employment he could take that doesn't involve more of the same (ie. escorting/personal companion)?

 

You need to assess all these things before proceeding, even before you contact a lawyer. Have them all straight in your mind. Then you may want to get some legal advice before contacting your fuck buddy on this matter. Since the rent is always around the corner, if you are going to terminate his free lunch, you better get hustling.

 

And good luck. The important thing is to proceed rationally. You sound like a reflective type person. Be up front in your dealings as much as possible but have a good plan of action.

[Guest ncm2169]

< he may try to bribe you.

 

Ummm, don't you mean "blackmail?" :+

[Rick Munroe]

>cover your ass

 

Those are three words I never want to hear.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Munroe...you ####!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skins1]

LOL. yes blackmail. my bad HEH HEH

[joel304]

Rick, please contact me again regarding the Restraining Order my office is pursuing on your behalf against chgoboy.

 

I'm sad to report that he is still running the streets with no pants, sporting your signature tan line. Moreover, he's secured a voodoo doll of Derek. With your continued participation, I'm confident that we can have this before the judge as early as tomorrow.

 

Regards,

 

Joel ....., esq.

[JT Brooklyn]

IMHO..Trilingual has said just about everything you should consider doing. If this has been on your mind for quite awhile, I doubt your feelings about his "Companionship" are going to get anything but more Stressful to you! Unfortunately donot be surprised if and when the "Financial Assistance" Stops, so will your Relationship! That is the way your Relationship STARTED and has been for 5 yrs! IF it hasn't changed by now, it isn't going to.. Apparently, and Unfortunately, it is "up to you" to do the Moving On! :+ :+ :+

[Guest ChgoBoy]

>Rick, please contact me again regarding the Restraining Order

>my office is pursuing on your behalf against chgoboy.

>

>I'm sad to report that he is still running the streets with no

>pants, sporting your signature tan line. Moreover, he's

>secured a voodoo doll of Derek. With your continued

>participation, I'm confident that we can have this before the

>judge as early as tomorrow.

>

>Regards,

>

>Joel ....., esq.

 

 

 

My tan line is real, not baked (ahem) I never run in the streets as I carry scisors and the only doll I have ever poked...well, I was drunk and somebody else blew it up for me.....

[Ryan]

First, thank you for taking my problem seriously and giving what I hope is sound advice. I must admit, though, that I am now even more concerned given some of the things some of you have outlined.

I have a successful and relatively public business. I would lose my business if this became public. This fellow is pretty much a tough guy. At least that is his persona in public. I've gotten to know a softer side, but the "danger" side is always there. If what he has told me of some of his exploits are even a third true, this guy could be a problem. Regarding the palimony suit against his former boyfriend. He was overheard mentioning to a third party that he wished he could figure out a way to sue so-and-so for support, since he had done so much work on the boyfriends house. He never actually acted on it.

The only people who know of us publically, are the guys who run a bathhouse we frequent. And a couple of his friends who are in and out at times.

He is a high school dropout, and has only done menial jobs. He is a pretty talented musician, and I have helped him out in that. I cannot see him actually ever really taking a job, though.

I'm anxious, no doubt. This is really my only outlet for talking about it. I'm embarrassed and feeling foolish. I own it responsibility for this and I want to do the right thing, and protect myself.

Again, thank you for your thoughts.

[Txpaytoplay]

It's obvious he was escorting when he met you....I think giving him 1 to 2 month notice is a very good severance package. Better than I would get with my job!! Maybe also help him find a job...after 5 years together I think it is time to discuss the topic of helping himself.

 

Just my two cents worth.

[joel304]

Restraining Order. Now. Protect yourself, and your business. I'm sure you'll have grounds following your discussion.

[BigK]

Do you enjoy the time spent with him, or would you if you did not have these concerns? It's a possibility, although remote (but only you can determine this), that he truly considers you a buddy. If so why not tell him you are under some severe financial constraints for the forseeable future, and you would like to continue seeing him, but can only afford $500.00 per month.

 

Maybe you can continue your meetings of 5 years, or, more likely, you will stop hearing from him if he believes the gravy train is ending.

 

Nothing lost in giving him the impression that you have financial difficulties if he would really consider a lawsuit. Also his case might seem less promising still to a potential lawyer.

 

Good luck.

[Boston Guy]

Ryan,

 

I'm sort of surprised that no one has suggested simply telling him the truth: that your financial circumstances have changed and that you can no longer afford to see him. Perhaps you could suggest that you might be able to afford one more month. Then you might even ask if he wants to continue getting together once a month for free. :-)

 

If he thinks the well has run dry, perhaps that would also tend to discourage a suit for support?

 

Finally, if he threatens to cause problems, you might ask gently if he has reported all of the income you've paid him to the tax authorities.

 

BG

[joel304]

I advocated the truth from the start. But, be prepared with a survival plan if the worst case scenario is realized.

[ErikMcAlister]

>Regarding

>the palimony suit against his former boyfriend. He was

>overheard mentioning to a third party that he wished he could

>figure out a way to sue so-and-so for support, since he had

>done so much work on the boyfriends house.

 

Quantum meruit? Unjust enrichment? Neither is palimony & it doesn't sound like he's bright enough to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

 

>I own

>it responsibility for this and I want to do the right thing,

>and protect myself.

 

Well, if something getting out could lead to you losing your business, you might re-consider trips to the bathhouse.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Ryan, we should talk...I have an unlimited long distance phone package...I'd be glad to make the call....this scum punk can be easily dealt with...please email me and we will talk about putting this lame horse down....Nobody with this scums past can prevail in this situation...Let's talk and develop a plan...

 

ChgoBoy

[eastbayguy]

Ryan,

 

Can not add any advice to the wise counsel you've already received from several people here. I'm glad so many have stepped in to the breach to offer you some support. Know that you're not alone and on your own. The fact is, any relationship can deteriorate. One of the happiest straight couples I ever knew ended up with all sorts of troubles when the wife developed a severe mental illness.

 

As gay men, we don't have the comfort of a legal relationship, so we sometimes have to turn to situations which are a tad, ahem, untraditional. Sorry to hear of your woes. The best of situations do sometimes go astray.

 

Best wishes, hope it goes well, and do keep us posted. Let's hope you're able to work out some sort of amicable parting and that no drama ensues. Good luck.

 

--EBG