Sunset Boulevard

[actor61]

The film is one of my all time favorites. I'm a fourth generation Angelino, and the film's glimpses of L.A. in the late 40s are of special interest to me. The many parodies of the film often depict Norma Desmond as an old crone. Gloria Swanson was only 49 when the film was made. Silent Film stars often made huge salaries. When Colleen Moore, one of the top box office stars of time, decided to retire with the arrival of " talkies" an interviewer asked why she wasn't inclined to continue. She replied frankly " I'm too rich to care". She was making $25,000 a week at the height of her career in 1926. She went on to be a very successful investor, and wrote several books encouraging women to become investors.

You've hit on a very important point. Apart from Lupone in the original London production, Norma in the musical has been played as an aged, demented hag and that makes it very difficult for me to believe that Joe Gillis would sleep with her, even for big bucks. Joe is always cast as a young, hunky leading man in the musical, and to me it's implausible that their relationship could be sexual more than once. In the film, Gloria Swanson is rather glamorous and oddly, ethereally beautiful in a great, old fashioned movie star way. She's nuts, but she's also funny and alluring and Holden is by no means in the full bloom of youth. She's on the brink of inevitable old age, and Holden knows that he's probably past his sell-by date, which is what makes him bitter and desperate enough to accept what Norma offers. In the musical, Norma is almost always played as a mad old lady and that's why it has never worked for me. What I also love about the movie and which is missing in the play is that Norma is very much the aggressor and knows exactly what she wants. This is a woman who still loves sex. There are scenes in the film when it's very obvious that Ms. Desmond is pretty horny, and it's so much fun watching Swanson play the lust and Holden recoil and then give in to it. Judy Holliday won the Oscar that year for her delightful performance in "Born Yesterday" and Anne Baxter and Bette Davis were both nominated for "All About Eve." Many people thought that year's award was Davis's for the taking but that Baxter's nomination in the same category canceled her out. I think the actress who was robbed was Swanson. It is truly one of the great screen performances of the ages.

 

The film's history is very interesting. When you read the list of the actresses Wilder considered seriously before locking in Swanson, your jaw drops - Mae West, Mary Pickford, Pola Negri were all contenders, and Montgomery Clift was the original choice for Joe. I can't imagine anyone better than Holden in the role, though. Just the way he lights a cigarette conveys everything you need to know about his disillusioned Joe Gillis.

[hornytwells]

I always thought that Bette Davis and Gloria Swanson cancelled each other out that year for the oscar because it was so hard to choose one over the other-two of my favourite movies of all time, altho Holden and Holliday also wonderful in Born yesterday

[+ WilliamM]

My parents took me to "I've Got A Secret" around 1960. I knew the panel from watching the show on TV, but otherwise I was not much interested. One of the people with a secret was Gloria Swanson. All of these years later, I may be one of the few people around who saw Swanson in person. I forget her secret; it had nothing to do with her long relationship with Joe Kennedy, Sr. though.

[actor61]

I always thought that Bette Davis and Gloria Swanson cancelled each other out that year for the oscar because it was so hard to choose one over the other-two of my favourite movies of all time, altho Holden and Holliday also wonderful in Born yesterday

Oh, you could be right! There's an author whose name I forget who writes books on the making of various classic films, and I read his on "All About Eve" (I think it's called "All About All About Eve"), and he cites sources that said when Baxter's people proposed pushing for a nomination in the Best Supporting category, virtually ensuring a win, she vehemently refused, saying she'd already won an Oscar in Supporting for "The Razor's Edge", and felt that she should be in the Best category since the film was titled "All About Eve" and she played Eve. According to the author, voters split over her and Davis for "Eve" and threw their votes to Judy Holliday instead. The book was also interesting for the inside stories about Davis's behavior on the set. Celeste Holm detested her and there are various interviews on You Tube in which she says that Davis was one of the rudest people she'd ever met. Davis was pretty much hated in Hollywood by that time, and maybe there was a backlash against her in spite of her fabulous performance. Holliday was adored, and she had played over 1,000 performances of "Born Yesterday" on Broadway before making the film, so the Oscar was sort of a Miss Congeniality award, although her performance is wonderful and certainly deserved the award on its merits alone.

 

Did you know that Swanson was trying to get a musical version of "Sunset Boulevard" produced long before Lloyd Weber got into the picture? She had a wonderful singing voice, and had put together a score for the show with a composer whose name I can't remember. I'm sure somebody on here knows much more than I about it. It would have been fabulous to see THAT version. Swanson was a well respected and well liked pro in Hollywood and it's a shame that she was considered a relic by the 1950s as I think she could have done some superb work. It was so much more important to many of the stars of the slient era to maintain that stardom rather than to be working actresses, and consequently many of them wouldn't play character roles or age in public. Pickford became a recluse, Mae West became a parody, Norma Shearer turned down "Mrs. Minniver" because she didn't want her fans to acknowledge that she was old enough to have a teenage son, and although Crawford kept on, she became a gargoyle in later years. Davis didn't mind getting older, it would seem, and grabbed character roles but she was such a monster to work with that she continually shot herself in the foot. The stories about her mistreatment of Lilian Gish while filming "The Whales of August" are legendary. Lindsay Anderson kept a diary during that shoot and Davis comes off as a real Baby Jane. Apparently, Katherine Hepburn could be monstrous too, but she wasn't reluctant to play mothers or grandmothers if they were good roles and I think she calmed down if she had a strong director or costar. Cukor and Olivier certainly took no shit from her when they shot "Love Among the Ruins" and Anthony Hopkins relates that on the set of "The Lion in Winter", she admired O'Toole so much that she let him get away with a lot of hammy tricks and steal a few scenes. Of course, she won her third Oscar for that film, so she knew what she was doing.

 

I once worked with an aging Hollywood legend who was so Godawful to the cast and crew that people handed in their 2 week notices after opening night. She kept excusing her disgusting discourtesy with the phrases "I'm a perfectionist" or "I'm a pro", to which one of the chorus boys yelled out at a notes session, "No, you're not. You're a bitch." He was fired on the spot but his notice was already sitting on the Stage Manager's desk, so the gesture was redundant. I guess the fear of aging makes these stars crazy and it's really sad to witness.

[corymonroe]

I never liked the movie. I could never get beyond Norma Desmond being nothing more than a caricature.

 

I saw Glenn Close on Broadway the first time. Her acting was fine, but I did not enjoy her singing voice at all. I saw a performance with her understudy, Karen Mason, and Karen ripped through the ceiling with her voice. Really fantastic. I saw Diahann Carroll in Toronto. I thought her performance was better than Close's.

[hornytwells]

Oh, you could be right! There's an author whose name I forget who writes books on the making of various classic films, and I read his on "All About Eve" (I think it's called "All About All About Eve"), and he cites sources that said when Baxter's people proposed pushing for a nomination in the Best Supporting category, virtually ensuring a win, she vehemently refused, saying she'd already won an Oscar in Supporting for "The Razor's Edge", and felt that she should be in the Best category since the film was titled "All About Eve" and she played Eve. According to the author, voters split over her and Davis for "Eve" and threw their votes to Judy Holliday instead. The book was also interesting for the inside stories about Davis's behavior on the set. Celeste Holm detested her and there are various interviews on You Tube in which she says that Davis was one of the rudest people she'd ever met. Davis was pretty much hated in Hollywood by that time, and maybe there was a backlash against her in spite of her fabulous performance. Holliday was adored, and she had played over 1,000 performances of "Born Yesterday" on Broadway before making the film, so the Oscar was sort of a Miss Congeniality award, although her performance is wonderful and certainly deserved the award on its merits alone.

 

Did you know that Swanson was trying to get a musical version of "Sunset Boulevard" produced long before Lloyd Weber got into the picture? She had a wonderful singing voice, and had put together a score for the show with a composer whose name I can't remember. I'm sure somebody on here knows much more than I about it. It would have been fabulous to see THAT version. Swanson was a well respected and well liked pro in Hollywood and it's a shame that she was considered a relic by the 1950s as I think she could have done some superb work. It was so much more important to many of the stars of the slient era to maintain that stardom rather than to be working actresses, and consequently many of them wouldn't play character roles or age in public. Pickford became a recluse, Mae West became a parody, Norma Shearer turned down "Mrs. Minniver" because she didn't want her fans to acknowledge that she was old enough to have a teenage son, and although Crawford kept on, she became a gargoyle in later years. Davis didn't mind getting older, it would seem, and grabbed character roles but she was such a monster to work with that she continually shot herself in the foot. The stories about her mistreatment of Lilian Gish while filming "The Whales of August" are legendary. Lindsay Anderson kept a diary during that shoot and Davis comes off as a real Baby Jane. Apparently, Katherine Hepburn could be monstrous too, but she wasn't reluctant to play mothers or grandmothers if they were good roles and I think she calmed down if she had a strong director or costar. Cukor and Olivier certainly took no shit from her when they shot "Love Among the Ruins" and Anthony Hopkins relates that on the set of "The Lion in Winter", she admired O'Toole so much that she let him get away with a lot of hammy tricks and steal a few scenes. Of course, she won her third Oscar for that film, so she knew what she was doing.

 

I once worked with an aging Hollywood legend who was so Godawful to the cast and crew that people handed in their 2 week notices after opening night. She kept excusing her disgusting discourtesy with the phrases "I'm a perfectionist" or "I'm a pro", to which one of the chorus boys yelled out at a notes session, "No, you're not. You're a bitch." He was fired on the spot but his notice was already sitting on the Stage Manager's desk, so the gesture was redundant. I guess the fear of aging makes these stars crazy and it's really sad to witness.

 

 

yes, Sam Stagg wrote those book, very entertaining! I also worked with ahollywood legend/dragoness on a movie and have voicemails and anecdotes for days.......

[foxy]

All of this history is very fascinating but I'm curious to know if I'm the only one whose actually seen this latest production?

[foxy]

BTW Max pretends to play the organ in the show since that's such a popular instrument.

[handiacefailure]

All of this history is very fascinating but I'm curious to know if I'm the only one whose actually seen this latest production?

 

It's only been on broadway a couple weeks hasn't it? I'm planning on seeing it in late March when I'm in NYC

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

All of this history is very fascinating but I'm curious to know if I'm the only one whose actually seen this latest production?

 

I saw it in London in late April last year. I still say that while Close is a great actress (huge Damages fan here), I want more vocally from the role. This is still musical theater. I wasn't a fan of the soundboard sweetening some of her money notes. I hear it's being done, still, at the Palace.

[Tommygunzz]

I'm going on Saturday night. With a young man that I met on Seeking Arrangements. He's coming in from Kansas, and we are both musical theatre enthusiasts. Can't wait for this weekend of Glenn Close and being close with him.

[Marlfox]

Foxy, thanks for the review. A friend and I are seeing the show on the 23rd of this month. I'm not a big ALW fan either and was uncertain, but my friend wanted to see it, so I agreed to go along. After reading your review I'm looking forward to it.

[actor61]

yes, Sam Stagg wrote those book, very entertaining! I also worked with ahollywood legend/dragoness on a movie and have voicemails and anecdotes for days.......

Do tell!!!

[hornytwells]

hahahah, not terribly professional of me to do that here, but pvt me if you really want to know!

[foxy]

I saw it in London in late April last year. I still say that while Close is a great actress (huge Damages fan here), I want more vocally from the role. This is still musical theater. I wasn't a fan of the soundboard sweetening some of her money notes. I hear it's being done, still, at the Palace.

 

Since all musicals are so overmiked these days, some painfully so, I've just come to expect and live with it. I think the days when a performer's voice could fill a theater unaided are over. Serious opera is probably the exception. Theater goers these days like their music loud I'm sorry to say. I often wish I had ear plugs with me.

[MrMiniver]

My absolute hatred and abhorrence of all things Andrew Lloyd Webber prevent me from commenting much here so all I'll say are my favorite Lloyd Webber songs are the ones that were written by Puccini.

[N13]

My absolute hatred and abhorrence of all things Andrew Lloyd Webber prevent me from commenting much here so all I'll say are my favorite Lloyd Webber songs are the ones that were written by Puccini.

 

Surely there must be one 'tune' that you like!

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

... Lloyd Webber songs are the ones that were written by Puccini.

 

This comment for the win. It's funny because it's true.

[bostonman]

Since all musicals are so overmiked these days

 

Not all. With all due respect, that's a very uninformed generalization.

 

I have only had the chance to get to NYC once during each of the last 3 years, and for the 3 shows I saw - On The Town, A Gentleman's Guide To Love And Murder, and Falsettos - I will go out on a limb and say that NONE of them felt "overmiked" to me. In fact, seeing On the Town from the back row of the orchestra section, I was really pleasantly surprised at how under-processed the sound seemed - a nice, clear, "acoustic"-feeling sound from both cast and orchestra. I heard every note and every word, at what felt like a reasonable, "normal" volume, and though I may have quibbled with elements of the production itself (I've done the show 4 different times and it's very close to my heart, so I'm bound to have opinions lol), I had no complaints at all for the sound design.

 

Now, some of the pop/rock-oriented shows are bound to be different - I remember seeing the touring production of American Idiot in Boston, and left with my ears ringing (and couldn't begin to imagine how the onstage band hadn't all lost their hearing) - I did feel that show was too loud even for an audience expecting loud rock.

 

But please, don't tell me that ALL shows are overmiked. That's fake news.

[N13]

But please, don't tell me that ALL shows are overmiked. That's fake news.

 

Probably true that not 'all' are overmiked. What bothers me is that they are miked at all. I remember many, many great shows - all prior to "The Rink" that were not miked, yet every word could be heard all the way to the back of the back balcony. There was an immediacy that inhabited them that is now all but gone.

[bostonman]

Probably true that not 'all' are overmiked. What bothers me is that they are miked at all. I remember many, many great shows - all prior to "The Rink" that were not miked, yet every word could be heard all the way to the back of the back balcony. There was an immediacy that inhabited them that is now all but gone.

 

I'm not sure why The Rink is your defining point - that was the mid 80's, and shows were routinely being miked way way before that.

[N13]

I'm not sure why The Rink is your defining point - that was the mid 80's, and shows were routinely being miked way way before that.

 

It is the first one that I remember where the mike was used. That is why I date it from there. Can you elucidate as to some shows that were miked before that?

[bostonman]

It is the first one that I remember where the mike was used. That is why I date it from there. Can you elucidate as to some shows that were miked before that?

 

General stage miking of various sorts had already been used for decades before that. And there are various stories about who might have been the first stars to wear primitive forms of body mikes, but that too goes back a ways. If you're wanting to make the distinction between stage miking and the first shows to begin to rely on each actor being amplified individually, I still think that was starting to happen before the mid 80's. (Individual hand-held mics had been used in rock-oriented shows as far back as Hair, but lavalier and eventually "headgear" mics started coming more into use after that. If I'm not mistaken, the original 1971 Broadway mounting of Jesus Christ Superstar also used handheld mics for the leads. Someone can check me on that, though.)

 

Certainly the first NYC productions I personally saw - the 1980 West Side Story revival with Debbie Allen, the original run of A Chorus Line (which I saw that same year) and the Papp revamp of The Pirates Of Penzance (with Linda Ronstadt, Kevin Kline, etc) were all thoroughly and noticeably miked, whether just with area miking or with body mics as well. of those 3, the only one that I thought was handled badly was Pirates - but I think that barn of a theatre (then the Uris, now the Gershwin) was harder to mic well in those days. My memory for that show was that everything sounded like it was coming out of one speaker somewhere - sitting far from the stage, it was often hard to tell who was singing/speaking in group scenes, because there was no sense of localization in the sound.

 

(The best miking of those 3 shows surely was A Chorus Line, where the pop-based score benefitted from the edge that mics can give. I don't ever remember feeling that the miking was intrusive - rather, that it added a certain sense of authenticity to the music. I feel that mics should always be used in pop/rock musicals, because the sound of miking is truly an expected part of the sound of that musical style.)

 

Doing shows as a kid in the 70's and early 80's, I remember some shows that were done with floor mics, and some that were done with visible booms across the front of the stage, and/or hanging mics. Though I loved to sing (and still do, though I don't perform as a singer much anymore), I never had a loud voice as a kid, and I remember having a cordless (lavalier) body mic to sing in my middle school production of Fiddler (which would have been 1979). We did Guys And Dolls in high school (1981), and all of us playing leads had corded body mics, which made for a lot of cumbersome staging around the cords, as I recall. (I can't remember what they did for the dance numbers lol). So - if my suburban CT school system was using equipment like that, surely Broadway was already onto the next toys by then, lol.

[N13]

Well-said! Thanks. None of the theater (amateur) that I did back in the 50's was miked, however. We had to project.

[+ WilliamM]

General stage miking of various sorts had already been used for decades before that

 

Floor miking was apparently used as far back as "South Pacific" in 1949.