Sunset Boulevard

[bostonman]

Floor miking was apparentlyused as far back as "South Pacific" in 1949.

 

Amplification was also undoubtedly also being used for other reasons back then, like boosting softer orchestral instruments (especially guitars and the like). The Samuel French script for the Mary Martin version of Peter Pan (1954) reveals that the original sound of the crocodile "tick" was a metronome amplified by a microphone.

 

Also somewhat related - 1954's Pajama Game may have been the first musical to use prerecorded vocals, and in a very dramatic, unique way - the show's famous song "Hey There" was, in context, sung as a message left by Sid (John Raitt) to himself on a dictaphone machine. Sid then plays the message back (which we hear) as he makes wry comments on his own "advice I hand you like a brother" on the playback, ultimately making it a bit of a duet with his prerecorded self. Not bad for 1954, eh?

[Marlfox]

Saw Sunset Boulevard last night and loved it. First time I've seen it, so can't compare Glen Close's performance to other actresses, but thought she nailed it. The voice isn't great, but fits with the character she's playing. She received a sustained standing ovation at the end, as did the rest of the cast. In my opinion well deserved.

[hornytwells]

Well-said! Thanks. None of the theater (amateur) that I did back in the 50's was miked, however. We had to project.

Are you talking about theater, or musical theater? And projecting in what size houses? Interesting article here for those interested in such things...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/22/theater/theater-musical-theater-is-discovering-a-new-voice.html?pagewanted=all

[edjames]

Better than I expected! I never saw the original or any other production of this now classic show. Glenn Close was amazing.

 

Interestingly, she made a pre-curtain announcement that her voice had given out on Sunday and she had missed several performances and yesterday was her return to the show. She begged the audience's forgiveness as she was not back to 100% and she hoped the audience would enjoy "this journey together." Needless to say, I saw no indication she was suffering from any vocal problems. My guess is that they might have trimmed a few notes here and there but it in no way impacted on the brilliance of her performance.

3 standing ovation curtain calls.

Of note is UK actor, Michael Xavier, who plays writer Joe Gillis. While not the greatest of singers., at times, I found his voice lacking in power. However, in the opening scene of Act 2, he appears on stage in a skimpy mini-boxer bathing suit, and well, what a bod! He obviously has been to the gym.

[actor61]

I don't know if this is accurate but I seem to remember that Carnival was the first Broadway musical in which the leads wore cordless body mikes but again, I'm just going on a rather hazy memory of reading that somewhere.

 

The most effective use of hand held mikes with cords I've ever seen was in the stage version of The Rocky Horror Show. The micography was ingenious. Flashlights were also used to great effect.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I wanted to like Close.

 

Sure, her acting is great. She clearly knows her Norma. It's just that pesky little singing thing... Call me old fashioned, but if you're the lead in a musical, you damn well better be able to sing the score. Sunset can be a thrilling show to listen to with the right voice (Betty Buckley). Exhibit A:

 

 

I appreciated her very good acting choices, but Close was better in the role when she played it years back. I don't think age has helped her on this one. High points: Sunset has never sounded better (great orchestra) and the costuming was superb.

[foxy]

There's sometimes something of a trade off with live theater. With movies or tv they can do multiple takes but you don't have that with a live performance obviously. When I think of actors who perform 8 times a week I give leeway. I would make a terrible critic because I'm frankly in awe of people who can do this. Sing, dance, act on a stage and not die of fright. Night after night and still keep it fresh or give the appearance of it. It can't be the money, especially when you get major stars willing to go through this ordeal. I hope the applause is worth it. I suppose it must be otherwise why bother? I read reviews of the people who are paid to do that but more often than not I'm most interested in the reviews I read here. So glad this forum exists.

[+ WilliamM]

It can't be the money, especially when you get major stars willing to go through this ordea

 

Occasionally major stars have invested as producers in their own shows. If the show is successful and eventually results in a hit film, the small initial investment pays off very well.

[Bayman4Fun]

My absolute hatred and abhorrence of all things Andrew Lloyd Webber prevent me from commenting much here so all I'll say are my favorite Lloyd Webber songs are the ones that were written by Puccini.

1990. In NYC for a job interview, I score an excellent single seat for Phantom. I'm enjoying it, close enough that the fog from the stage flows over my 3rd row seat. It does feel a little like they went to the prop warehouse and yelled "give us everything ya got, and we'll work it into the production somehow!"

 

Intermission... standing outside among the crowd. And a guy nearby exclaims loudly "oh, come on! The big number is a rehash of the childhood ditty 'school days, school days, dear old golden rule days'"

 

An Ah-hah moment, forever changing my thoughts on Webber.

[bostonman]

And a guy nearby exclaims loudly "oh, come on! The big number is a rehash of the childhood ditty 'school days, school days, dear old golden rule days'"

 

An Ah-hah moment, forever changing my thoughts on Webber.

 

Others would say the same melody was "stolen" from the song "Come To Me, Bend To Me" from Brigadoon (so, does that mean that Loewe stole "School Days" as well???). Though frankly, in both cases, it's just the first 5 notes and that's it. The history of music is about composers stealing bits of melody from one another. Frankly, I think the accusations are overrated. It happens.

 

Direct deliberate quotes are much more fun to discover. A lot of people may not realize that the recurring "Unlimited" theme in Wicked is a literal steal of the opening phrase of "Over The Rainbow" (phrased differently, so the comparison isn't immediately so obvious). Or that when Elaine Stritch's character toasts Mahler in the middle of "The Ladies Who Lunch," the trumpets actually play a phrase from a Mahler symphony (thanks to the whimsy of orchestrator Jonathan Tunick, who also deftly stuck the opening horn passage from Der Rosenkavalier into the score of A Little Night Music). And on and on...

[Bayman4Fun]

Others would say the same melody was "stolen" from the song "Come To Me, Bend To Me" from Brigadoon (so, does that mean that Loewe stole "School Days" as well???). Though frankly, in both cases, it's just the first 5 notes and that's it. The history of music is about composers stealing bits of melody from one another. Frankly, I think the accusations are overrated. It happens.

 

Direct deliberate quotes are much more fun to discover. A lot of people may not realize that the recurring "Unlimited" theme in Wicked is a literal steal of the opening phrase of "Over The Rainbow" (phrased differently, so the comparison isn't immediately so obvious). Or that when Elaine Stritch's character toasts Mahler in the middle of "The Ladies Who Lunch," the trumpets actually play a phrase from a Mahler symphony (thanks to the whimsy of orchestrator Jonathan Tunick, who also deftly stuck the opening horn passage from Der Rosenkavalier into the score of A Little Night Music). And on and on...

And Roger will attempt to write a bittersweet, evocative song that doesn't remind us of "Musetta's Waltz"

[bostonman]

And Roger will attempt to write a bittersweet, evocative song that doesn't remind us of "Musetta's Waltz"

 

LOL

 

 

[hornytwells]

Others would say the same melody was "stolen" from the song "Come To Me, Bend To Me" from Brigadoon (so, does that mean that Loewe stole "School Days" as well???). Though frankly, in both cases, it's just the first 5 notes and that's it. The history of music is about composers stealing bits of melody from one another. Frankly, I think the accusations are overrated. It happens.

 

Direct deliberate quotes are much more fun to discover. A lot of people may not realize that the recurring "Unlimited" theme in Wicked is a literal steal of the opening phrase of "Over The Rainbow" (phrased differently, so the comparison isn't immediately so obvious). Or that when Elaine Stritch's character toasts Mahler in the middle of "The Ladies Who Lunch," the trumpets actually play a phrase from a Mahler symphony (thanks to the whimsy of orchestrator Jonathan Tunick, who also deftly stuck the opening horn passage from Der Rosenkavalier into the score of A Little Night Music). And on and on...

 

 

I know ALW is a plagiarist, but its a bit of a stretch to say the "melody" is stolen from "Come to me, bend to me' it's actually only the first 4 notes/two chords that are similar. The real stolen parts from from Puccini's Fanciulla (Ricord publishers sued and "allegedly" settled out of court, and the blatant rip off of Pink Floyd for the Phantom of the Opera number. Then there are these:

[bostonman]

I know ALW is a plagiarist, but its a bit of a stretch to say the "melody" is stolen from "Come to me, bend to me' it's actually only the first 4 notes

 

First 5, actually.

 

"Come (to) me bend (to) me kiss" = "School days school days dear" = "Night-time sharp-ens height-"

 

Chord-wise, the 2 musical theatre songs share 3 identical chords in this same passage (even up to the use of pedal tone in the bass), the children's song can be and is probably harmonized various ways.

[hornytwells]

First 5, actually.

 

"Come (to) me bend (to) me kiss" = "School days school days dear" = "Night-time sharp-ens height-"

 

Chord-wise, the 2 musical theatre songs share 3 identical chords in this same passage (even up to the use of pedal tone in the bass), the children's song can be and is probably harmonized various ways.

My point was 4 or 5 notes is not my idea of a whole melody, The melody he really stole rather shockingly, was the theme from the Apartment, for the title song of Love Never Dies ( or Paint never dries, as it was rather wittily named after a disastrous premiere in London)

[bostonman]

My point was 4 or 5 notes is not my idea of a whole melody.

 

Yes, I knew that.

 

The melody he really stole rather shockingly, was the theme from the Apartment, for the title song of Love Never Dies ( or Paint never dries, as it was rather wittily named after a disastrous premiere in London)

 

That's only a four-note steal. After the first 4 notes (which are not quite identical in rhythm), the tunes are quite different. So I'm not sure what your distinction is.

 

Those same 4 notes are also the start of the melody of the "Non mi tentar" section of the Nedda/Silvio duet in Pagliacci. Musc that I'm sure both Webber AND Charles Williams (who wrote the song that eventually became that theme for The Apartment) knew well.

[hornytwells]

Yes, I knew that.

 

 

 

That's only a four-note steal. After the first 4 notes (which are not quite identical in rhythm), the tunes are quite different. So I'm not sure what your distinction is.

No the harmonies and the melody are the same for the first 9 notes- the rhythm I didnt include as we were discussing melody)

 

(go to 3.30) and compare to (0.17) in this

[bostonman]

Ok - I see what you did there. I was comparing the beginning of both tunes, You're comparing the beginning of the Apartment theme with the 3rd A of "Love Never Dies." Fair enough. Although again, it's really about 4 notes twice - the way both songs restate the same 4-note theme twice as part of an upward harmonic sequence isn't anything extraordinary or uncommon. But ok.

[hornytwells]

Ok - I see what you did there. I was comparing the beginning of both tunes, You're comparing the beginning of the Apartment theme with the 3rd A of "Love Never Dies." Fair enough. Although again, it's really about 4 notes twice - the way both songs restate the same 4-note theme twice as part of an upward harmonic sequence isn't anything extraordinary or uncommon. But ok.

Yes because I think thats a more cunning way to disguise plagiarism, not to make it overly obvious. It only ocurred to me as I had to work on it for an hour one day and couldnt think where I had heard that melody and harmonies before........

[bostonman]

and couldnt think where I had heard that melody and harmonies before...

 

And likewise, when starting to listen to both of those tunes as we were discussing them, my mind went "where else have I heard that" and then remembered that same 4-note passage in Pagliacci.

(first 4 notes of the soprano melody)

[hornytwells]

And likewise, when starting to listen to both of those tunes as we were discussing them, my mind went "where else have I heard that" and then remembered that same 4-note passage in Pagliacci.

(first 4 notes of the soprano melody)

haha yes, and funny you picked the above recording-I met Joan Carlyle! Also I made a stupid typo which I corrected-I meant a cunning way to disguise, not discuss! DUH!

[+ Gar1eth]

I agree with you 100% - it IS a bad show. So is Phantom of the Opera, and it has been running for 30 years. Cats is deplorable and I say that having been in one of the major companies of the show in the 1980s, but again, it ran for over 10 years in New York and even longer in London. Go figure.

 

I'm not that fond of Cats except for the Jellicle Cats song. But I like Phantom. I've never seen Sunset Blvd.

 

Gman

[+ Gar1eth]

I'm not sure why The Rink is your defining point - that was the mid 80's, and shows were routinely being miked way way before that.

 

Don't I remember seeing or reading an interview with Andrew McArdle saying that Annie was the last unmiked show?

 

Gman

[bostonman]

Don't I remember seeing or reading an interview with Andrew McArdle saying that Annie was the last unmiked show?

 

Annie was most certainly miked. But again, I think the question is whether there were individual body mics in addition to the more general stage mics that were almost certainly always used in shows by that point. That I don't know.

[+ Gar1eth]

Here's a discussion on miking.

 

http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.php?thread=893130

 

Gman