Oral Using a Condom

[caliguy]

Well head and neck cancers among men are on the rise and it's due to HPV and oral sex so I don't think people are being silly who insist on it. It's not a super high risk of getting that cancer, but if you do, it's one of the more horrible ways to go.

Queerty featured a guy who got the oral HPV. Good read.

http://www.queerty.com/doctors-failed-diagnose-hpv-related-oral-cancer-left-dead-20160703

[+ sync]

Perhaps the skill level of the oral service giver is a factor. I was once fellatioed while I was wearing a condom, and it was amazing (Danny, a stunning blond French-Canadian muscleboy). Escorts requiring a condom for oral services would not deter me from engaging them.

[WolfRamNHard]

Queerty featured a guy who got the oral HPV. Good read.

http://www.queerty.com/doctors-failed-diagnose-hpv-related-oral-cancer-left-dead-20160703

 

Thanks for sharing this. Screening for this is challenging for several reasons.

 

Bottom line - Get vaccinated! Even if you already have HPV.

[LADoug1]

Well head and neck cancers among men are on the rise and it's due to HPV and oral sex so I don't think people are being silly who insist on it. It's not a super high risk of getting that cancer, but if you do, it's one of the more horrible ways to go.

Not on topic exactly but I have a friend who contracted anal sex and it may have been from HPV. There is a correlation there too.

[LADoug1]

Thanks for sharing this. Screening for this is challenging for several reasons.

 

Bottom line - Get vaccinated! Even if you already have HPV.

 

Why vaccinate if you already have it?

[+ sniper]

Why vaccinate if you already have it?

 

Because there are many different strains of the virus and the vaccine works against the several strains that are most likely to cause cancer. You might be carrying one or more but not all of the strains covered by the vaccine, so getting the vaccine would still reduce your cancer risk.

[caliguy]

Not on topic exactly but I have a friend who contracted anal sex and it may have been from HPV. There is a correlation there too.

"Not on topic exactly but I have a friend who contracted HPV and it may have been from Anal Sex. There is a correlation there too."

 

I think you meant that and yes there is a correlation. I had my bottom friends get it on a somewhat regular basis. No biggie. Just another trip to the STD clinic. This was in our slutty days. Hopefully, they're not experiencing any ill effects yet or ever.

[Bart]

Thanks for the discussion this thread has generated. This is why this site proves to be a valued resource. Open and frank discussions with forum members that gets to the point. Truvada is great and I will continue to take, but I am going to make sure condoms continue to be a part of my life. I do think the lack of condoms has increased STD spread. While I guess in some places trips to STD clinics may seem like a walk in the park, at least where I live STD's are reported to the County/State health commissions and you are brought in for up to an hour conversation and investigate your sexual habits and partners. The labs are required to send positive results to the county. While all is under the guise of "keep your information private" it is still on file. I am concerned about oral sex. Honestly oral is my least favorite part of the meeting with a gentleman and I am the odd duck here as I do not like receiving oral or cumming in someone's mouth. I won't swallow either as I cant stand the taste of cum. I love to get fucked and have a guy jack me off. As much as I dislike oral, most of the guys I am with enjoy how I give oral and love to fuck my mouth and throat. I may consider just not offering to do it any more.

[coriolis888]

 

In my opinion, not only as an expert but also as a gay man who prefers *not* to use condoms for oral sex, everybody should get the HPV vaccine. In the US, if you fall outside the age range prescribed in the FDA guidelines, you'll have to pay for it out of pocket because it will not be covered by insurance. But it's well worth mitigating the risk with not much downside besides the cost.

 

 

Your advice appears logical and well intended, and it is very thought provoking.

 

However, I am puzzled by the claimed effectiveness of the vaccine for (approved for) very young people, beginning at age 15 - 26. The following excerpt appears to contradict your advice:

 

"All HPV vaccines are extremely effective at preventing infection by the HPV types they cover. Getting the HPV vaccine reduces a woman’s risk of cervical cancer and precancerous growths substantially. Men cannot develop cervical cancer, but the HPV vaccine may prevent genital warts, anal cancer, and the spread of HPV to sexual partners. Gardasil is approved for males ages 9 through 26 and Gardasil 9 is approved for use in males ages 9 through 15."

Are you saying that although the FDA and medical protocol claim that the vacinne is effective and intended primarily for the very young, the vaccine can benefit most adults?

[+ saminseattle]

Are you saying that although the FDA and medical protocol claim that the vacinne is effective and intended primarily for the very young, the vaccine can benefit most adults?

 

While I would defer to @WolfRamNHard and those with actual expertise in this stuff, based on my research, the age cut-off is more about financial than health considerations. From a pure health perspective, everybody should probably get vaccinated regardless of age. But in the real world, public health officials have to think about cost too and the most efficient use of limited resources. (Keep in mind that once a vaccine is recommended, insurance starts covering it, which drives up premiums for everybody, or taxes if it's a public insurance program). And you definitely get more bang for your buck by focusing the HPV vaccine on young people, preferably virgins. This is because, on average, the older you are, the more likely you are to have had more sex with more people and been exposed to more HPV strains, and the more strains you’ve been exposed to, the less effective the vaccine will be. But averages, by definition, don’t apply to all individuals. And just because the government doesn’t think it’s worth the cost to vaccinate everyone, doesn’t mean that you as an individual can’t reduce your cancer risk by getting the vaccine. It's also worth bearing in mind that this vaccine is only about 10 years old, it was originally only recommended for girls (the focus was on preventing cervical cancer), but it has gradually expanded (boys were added in 2011) and improved (it now covers 9 strains instead of 4). With the rise of oropharyngeal cancers, mainly among men, and ongoing research, I would not be surprised if they keep expanding the recommendations as more widespread benefits are confirmed. Here are some additional sources on this topic, the first one of which I think quite persuasively argues for expanded vaccination, particularly for gay men:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/01/who_should_get_the_hpv_vaccine_more_men_and_women_could_be_protected_from.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/left-out-why-is-it-so-hard-for-older-women-to-get-the-hpv-vaccine/258611/

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/hpv-vaccine-over-age-26-is-it-worth-it/

http://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/infectious-agents/hpv-vaccine-fact-sheet#r6

[WolfRamNHard]

saminseattle - thank you for the thoughtful response and the resource links. FDA decisions indeed often take economic factors into account, and the decisions sometimes have more of a political component than they would care to admit. Insurance companies also like to limit the amount that they have to pay out, and they have an incredibly powerful political lobby. For all these reasons, FDA guidelines often lag behind medical research. In fact, it is not uncommon for us (physicians and surgeons) to prescribe beyond FDA guidelines (off-label use) so long as it is medically appropriate and justifiable. There's nothing wrong with doing that from professional ethical standpoint, and in most states I believe it's legal to do so (although I'm not an attorney, obviously).

 

Coming back to the medical issues, here's why it's a good idea to get vaccinated even when you already have HPV - -

 

There are about 150 different strains of Human Papilloma Virus. Being infected with any given strain does not protect you from becoming infected with a different strain in the future. Only about a dozen of them are associated with cancer. Specifically, HPV-16, 18, 31, 33, and 35 are the strains that are implicated in orophryngeal SCCA.

 

There are some other strains that are associated with anal cancer and even penile cancer in men. But I won't get into that because it's slightly off-topic and also because my area of expertise ends below the clavicles.

 

Hypothetically let us assume that you contracted HPV sometime in the past. Chances are that you most likely do *not * know which of the 150 strains you already have. Let's say in this example that you've been sexually adventurous in the past and are already infected with not one or two, but five strains and they are HPV-6, HPV-31 HPV-47, HPV-49 and HPV-52. In this scenario, you are still at risk for being infected with HPV-16, which is the one that is most commonly linked to oropharyngeal cancer. But if you get vaccinated, that will afford you protection against HPV-16.

 

So unless you know for fact that you've already been infected with each and every one of the following strains -- HPV-16, 18, 31 and 33, you're better off getting the vaccine. The latest vaccine protects against 9 different strains of HPV, of which four (HPV-16, 18, 31 and 3) are associated with oropharyngeal SCCA. HPV-35 is not covered, but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

Then there's also the concept of "herd immunity" which bears some relevance here, but that's probably best explained by someone with Epidemiology or Infectious Disease background.

 

Finally, here's a news article from cancer.org, it's slightly dated but still appropriate - http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/hpv-vaccine-shown-to-protect-against-oral-form-of-infection

 

To reiterate, if you enjoy oral sex without a condom like I do, get the vaccine. You'll be doing yourself, your sexual partners, and the rest of us a favor.

 

ETA - the latest vaccine is Gardasil-9, which is the one you want to get. The older ones are called Gardasil (without the "9" at the end) and Cervarix.

[+ WilliamM]

This is an absolute and total deal breaker for me. I don't give a damn how hot the guy is if he insists I wear a condom for oral sex I'm gone. I always email an escort regarding my sexual wants prior to a meeting. I write that I require mutual oral sex WITHOUT condom and if that isn't possible then our getting together isn't possible. Thus far I have NEVER been refused.

 

One of my best straight friends insisted on using a condom for all sexual activity when he was meeting women on match.com during the years he was between marriages. He was fine with discussing it even when I wrote a new profile for him for match.com and included the condom situation.

 

We have been friends since freshman year in college, so I know he is 100% straight.

 

Any comments?

[LADoug1]

"Not on topic exactly but I have a friend who contracted HPV and it may have been from Anal Sex. There is a correlation there too."

 

I think you meant that and yes there is a correlation. I had my bottom friends get it on a somewhat regular basis. No biggie. Just another trip to the STD clinic. This was in our slutty days. Hopefully, they're not experiencing any ill effects yet or ever.

I meant what I wrote. He was HPV+ before the cancer.

[caliguy]

I meant what I wrote. He was HPV+ before the cancer.

READ what you wrote again.....

 

"Not on topic exactly but I have a friend who contracted anal sex and it may have been from HPV. There is a correlation there too."

[nycguy]

This is the only reason I can think of for sucking a condom covered cock

 

http://dallascondom.tumblr.com/image/141328222641

[sincitymix]

This is the only reason I can think of for sucking a condom covered cock

 

http://dallascondom.tumblr.com/image/141328222641

 

I dont know if this is going to make me wierd..i love to suck, and i swallow.. but the thought of sucking the cum out of a condom like an otter pop.. well.. doesnt appeal to me..

[+ glennnn]

I dont know if this is going to make me wierd..i love to suck, and i swallow.. but the thought of sucking the cum out of a condom like an otter pop.. well.. doesnt appeal to me..

 

I agree. I love cum, but prefer to take my refreshment directly from the spigot.

[liubit]

I agree. I love cum, but prefer to take my refreshment directly from the spigot.

My thoughts, exactly.

[Yeahman]

Being a risk averse person, I usually insist on condoms for oral sex. Based on prior discussions, I am not alone in this, but I am in a distinct minority: http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/when-you-hire-or-hook-up-do-you-give-or-get-head-with-a-condom.112340/, http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/unprotected-oral.112722/

Me too. I am extremely worrisome of STD/HIV. I am an oral bottom. That is, I am only interested in sucking off a hot young guy. Even though I read that oral only is very low risk, I still can't help worry about it every time I suck off a guy. So I have actually started to suck on condom covered cock. Have just just done it once so far. What turns me on is the reaction of my man while I fellate him. I do agree that it feels much better to me without the latex, but I am much less worried afterwards.

[ZCochrane]

Never... the risks is there but you're highly unlikely to get a disease that way. Unfortunately now because of PrEP a lot of guys are fucking without condoms and getting diseases (while so far avoiding HIV) and that might increase the risk of getting something by oral sex because there are more guys who have STDs.

 

Unlikely is not never. It happens.

 

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/rocephin-250-mg-im-zithromax-1-gram-orally.112051/

[pubic_assistance]

Never... the risks is there but you're highly unlikely to get a disease that way. Unfortunately now because of PrEP a lot of guys are fucking without condoms and getting diseases (while so far avoiding HIV) and that might increase the risk of getting something by oral sex because there are more guys who have STDs.

Not a "might" ...it's already a problem. Syphilis epidemic in NYC gay community.

[marylander1940]

Not a "might" ...it's already a problem. Syphilis epidemic in NYC gay community.

 

I hope you'll join me in the defense of condoms next time I'm "pack attacked" by the PrEP crowd!

[Yeahman]

I hope you'll join me in the defense of condoms next time I'm "pack attacked" by the PrEP crowd!

.

 

I support oral with condom, but also wish I didn't need to. It feels so much better without the plastic. U agree?

[marylander1940]

.

 

I support oral with condom, but also wish I didn't need to. It feels so much better without the plastic. U agree?

 

I give and receive head without a condom... I fuck and get fucked with condoms. Am I alone?

[liubit]

I give and receive head without a condom... I fuck and get fucked with condoms. Am I alone?

Oh no, you are not. That makes at least two of us.