Three Benjamins

[Despardo]

Consider alternative sources besides Rentmen. In my personal experience you can get excellent service at lower rates from Adam and from you local strip club. I do hire now and then premium escorts from RM (Sean Xavier, Isaac Powers, Max Gianni, Singlefordanite, etc.) and believe me, they are not better or hotter than the guys I get from Adam and Rockhard Sundays by 140 to 200 the hour, and they are very generous with their time.

Oh, for a local strip club!--if only. And yes, I have hired some really hot guys for $150 to $200. Other time, I got what I paid for.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Oh, for a local strip club!--if only. And yes, I have hired some really hot guys for $150 to $200. Other time, I got what I paid for.

Sorry, may be you should keep trying. One of my favorite regulars is from my local club, his service is excellent. I hooked up with two more guys and their services were standard. And I have more to try. Many more.

[Despardo]

Sorry, may be you should keep trying. One of my favorite regulars is from my local club, his service is excellent. I hooked up with two more guys and their services were standard. And I have more to try. Many more.

Do you know of any male strip clubs in Seattle? The closest one I know is in Portland, OR--almost 4 hours away by car.

[+ José Soplanucas]

No, sorry, I am relatively new and only know DC.

[mattr]

I'm sorry. I don't understand this comment. FlyerTalk?

FlyerTalk is a forum for frequent fliers...

[mattr]

Based on several of the responses, advertisers are treated as commodities which ain't so.

 

In the case of my rate its simple supply and demand. My rate started out at $250 / hr and went up to $300 / hr to help balance out supply and demand. It may go up to $350 / hr for new clientele here soon because demand has outgrown supply. Right now I'm just telling folks tough luck, schedule further in advance next time.

That's not entitlement, that's business. Several guys who charge much higher than I do apply the same principal, they don't want 10 clients in a day, they may only want 1 and as a result the rate reflects that. Supply and demand.

 

If you're looking for something that fits your budget, then look for those advertisers. But please don't complain about the advertisers that charge more or complain those advertisers are just "typical millennials who are entitled" because it does not fit within your budget. The rate is set to weed out clients to a point where advertisers can maintain a happy medium.

 

Exactly right... I am quite sure there are a number of employers who would like to hire me for less than my current salary but why should I discount my services when I have someone willing to pay the premium? I would not expect an escort manage his finances any differently than I manage mine. This may seem unfair to those that are priced out of the market but capitalism isn't always fair. I can't afford a Bentley but that doesn't mean that Bentley's should be cheaper.

[Juan Vancouver]

As regularly as a crackhead loses a tooth, this dear old thread visits us, yet again. Hello, dear friend!

 

The gist is the same: "Economy is at an absolute low, people are dying of hunger, unemployment at 50% rates, yet escort prices keep steadily getting higher. I have a budget (and or I don't want to spend more than ___) therefore all escorts must keep their prices where I want them to be or they will stop working. Why do escorts think they can charge those prices! Why don't they see that working ten times more charging half they would make more money! I absolutely set my absolute -this time for real- (no, but I'm serious, you guys) and will not pay more than ____ ever! If prices go higher than ____ then I'll stick to my own hand... no, seriously guys... this time, this is the absolute limit!"

 

One can bemoan and theorize as much as one can, which maybe has its cathartic properties, but the truth is prices for everything else are steadily rising, often at a higher rate than escort prices, and -in spite of what our in house economists predict- escorts are having no problem staying afloat with their new rates.

 

It is possible that for some clients with limited incomes this will mean that some escorts will become unavailable to them, but the market at large will not see any major change.

 

Escorts are charging more because EVERYTHING else is more expensive, and because the market is big enough to support that.

 

I sincerely empathize with those of you who fear are being pushed out of the market, which interestingly is a sentence that is being used by everyone in reference to all sorts of markets. Things are moving fast, and some of us are having trouble keeping up, but some of us are doing well and expecting those to change their lives to please the others is not only strange but terribly unrealistic.

 

Which brings me to Dominik.

 

I strongly suggest you run for the hills and stop reading any of the well intentioned advise you have received here. Client oriented rate setting advise will only push you to send confusing messages that will destroy your brand. DO NOT EVER lower your rates. DO NOT EVER come up with specials and specially DO NOT EVER advertise those specials on your ad. The "maximize revenue by lowering prices and moving more product" model is not a model that is applicable to escorting. There is only one of you, there is only so much really focused, loving and caring attention you can bestow on others every day, there is a limit of the hours you can possibly devote to sell an outstanding product.

 

It is not your duty to make yourself affordable for anyone who wants you. Your duty is to manage your product and your time in a responsible way that keeps you healthy, buoyant and busy. Your duty is with yourself.

 

I do not know of any escort that has tried to sell more at a lower price that has not burned out, resorted to drugs, ended with serious emotional and physical problems and was forced out of escorting. If your intention is to stay in this business for a while, set your rate (doesn't matter where, it's all relative) work well enough so that your service merits your rate, build a successful looking brand that people want a taste of and when times are tight, hang in there knowing that if you re doing your work well, things will be good again.

 

Lastly...

 

I think an escort who has a VIC (Very Important Client) program or something similar could really be on to something if such a program provided a clear differentiation. So, say certain services or features were ONLY available to VICs. That could be very interesting. It would have to make sense and be consistent with the escort's brand and not alienate potential clients. Given the nature of this business, it's a tricky proposition, but could be very compelling.

 

Wow! I felt so sad reading that.

 

The reason I am doing this job is because it is so exciting to go to every single session, every day, with the intention of treating every single client (whether he has hired me thousands of times or will only hire me today) as the most important person in the world. Not one of the very important ones, not a member of an exclusive club, but the single most important person to me at that time. That is what makes me sleep tight at night, that is what keeps me loving my work. The simple idea that I should run my business starting by discriminating against some of my clients because some of them are more important actually made me feel a little sick in my stomach.

 

But let's be honest; Truth is if I were charging 150 as some of you would want me to, if I had to see ten clients a day just to barely make meets end, if I had to put my physical and mental health at risk just to be able to make myself affordable to everyone, then it is likely that my clients would not feel very special. Ever. How soon it would be till I start going through the motions. How soon would it be till I start ascribing people value depending on the money they are paying me. How soon till I start seeing clients as wallets?

 

People are not a commodity. Neither clients nor escorts. Both clients and escorts that understand this and keep focusing on the human component of the relationship will continue growing closer and healthier.

 

I honour you. At all times. If you are not willing to honour me by trying to make me fit an imaginary model that commoditizes me and makes me more available to you then we don't belong together.

 

This doesn't mean, however, that you don't find people who belongs with you. There will be many.

[LivingnLA]

Thanks @Juan Vancouver for the thoughtful post where you tell [uSER=12155]@Dominiking[/uSER] exactly what I've been saying in my posts and then single out my hypothetical spitball idea tossed out purely in response to a question @latbear4blk. I said earlier this was an interesting thread and thought experiment and it continues to be so.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Thanks @Juan Vancouver for the thoughtful post where you tell [uSER=12155]@Dominiking[/uSER] exactly what I've been saying in my posts and then single out my hypothetical spitball idea tossed out purely in response to a question @latbear4blk. I said earlier this was an interesting thread and thought experiment and it continues to be so.

 

I agree. And the whole point is the "market" works for everyone, considering the diversity of business models and rates in place. The key strategy from the clients point of view is diversifying your sources if you have limited funds.

[MikeyGMin]

capitalism isn't always fair

 

Yep. Capitalism is brutal. Keeping in mind that this is a service -- not a commodity -- the escort / client relationship seems to me to be capitalism in its purest form. Pure supply and demand. (But I could be wrong. I don't claim to be that smart.)

 

I don't usually comment on KW's posts because I am completely and unapologetically biased. And I know this will draw the ire of some of the members (thank God I have a certain person on ignore) but, while I can afford it, I am fine paying a premium to get him fresh, relaxed and fully present -- not scrambling to fit in the next client. (Apologies for the run-on sentence.) It's a great luxury. One that I might not always be able to afford, but I'm sure going to enjoy it while I can.

[Juan Vancouver]

Thanks @Juan Vancouver for the thoughtful post where you tell [uSER=12155]@Dominiking[/uSER] exactly what I've been saying in my posts and then single out my hypothetical spitball idea tossed out purely in response to a question @latbear4blk. I said earlier this was an interesting thread and thought experiment and it continues to be so.

 

So... you are not really thanking me?

[LivingnLA]

So... you are not really thanking me?

 

I'm totally thanking you and just wondering why was I called out? Yes, my terminology was business-like, but that doesn't invalidate the humanity, compassion, intimacy, or authenticity of the interaction.

[Juan Vancouver]

I'm totally thanking you and just wondering why was I called out? Yes, my terminology was business-like, but that doesn't invalidate the humanity, compassion, intimacy, or authenticity of the interaction.

 

I am getting a little stuck with "called out". If I wrote what I wrote is because I feel that what you proposed would only further commodifying both the escort and the client. In that light, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that that anyone expecting more of me because he gives me more money would not feel like a human, intimate, authentic and compassionate interaction.

 

Also, (and in this case I am just guessing, since I am not an assiduous client) I think it would feel pretty shitty to me if I were a client and I had to fork out a lot of money, (a lot more than other clients fork out) in order to get a comprehensive experience.

 

If I wrote what I wrote it's because I think commoditizing a human being AND being compassionate and intimate are not compatible and are mutually exclusive.

 

And I have to clarify that it is not your language being business-like. It's the proposition itself and the paradigm from which the proposition comes. You can use airy fairy new age language to propose a Very Important Client special package agreement and my response would still be the same.

 

You either deal with a human being or a thing that gets sold.

 

You cannot have your cake and commodify it.

[mattr]

One day I hope to be @Juan Vancouver 's VIC

[Juan Vancouver]

One day I hope to be @Juan Vancouver 's VIC

 

All you have to do is show up. Im that easy!

[LivingnLA]

I am getting a little stuck with "called out". If I wrote what I wrote is because I feel that what you proposed would only further commodifying both the escort and the client. In that light, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that that anyone expecting more of me because he gives me more money would not feel like a human, intimate, authentic and compassionate interaction.

 

Also, (and in this case I am just guessing, since I am not an assiduous client) I think it would feel pretty shitty to me if I were a client and I had to fork out a lot of money, (a lot more than other clients fork out) in order to get a comprehensive experience.

 

If I wrote what I wrote it's because I think commoditizing a human being AND being compassionate and intimate are not compatible and are mutually exclusive.

 

And I have to clarify that it is not your language being business-like. It's the proposition itself and the paradigm from which the proposition comes. You can use airy fairy new age language to propose a Very Important Client special package agreement and my response would still be the same.

 

You either deal with a human being or a thing that gets sold.

 

You cannot have your cake and commodify it.

 

Ah, so you were replying to the hypothetical VIC concept in your reply. Fair enough. Commodification is about the race to the bottom. Everything I wrote is the exact opposite of that, so I imagine we're aligned, we simply use very different language.

 

The client / escort relationship is a business relationship. I'm sure there are exceptions, but don't the majority of escorts do what they do to make a living, just like most of us? Yes, the truly good/great escorts love their work and that translates into the incredible experiences they offer; but, if they weren't able to make a living doing it, wouldn't they find other gainful employment?

 

I don't deny that the empathy and authenticity that some bring to their profession isn't real. In fact, that's precisely what makes such people great fits for this work. But, as I tried to say in multiple previous posts in this and other threads, every business should play to its strengths. If someone isn't an empathetic and caring person by nature and they don't wish to become one, they probably shouldn't advertise as offering a BFE for example because most clients will sense the lack of authenticity and be disappointed. This disappointment will result in far fewer regulars and potentially a bad brand reputation online and elsewhere.

 

I bet if someone asked the top 100 most successful escorts around the world (male & female), they'd find many common traits and while some would be physical, I imagine most would be behavioral and emotional given the intimate nature of the business.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Why would it be, for instance, offering extra time for your bucks to "VIC" (let's call them "regulars" if that is an issue), diminishing in anynway? @Juan Vancouver , you have your business model, it works great for you (I would hire you if I were around), but there other arrangements in the market that also please me. Because this is, whether or not we like it, a market with a diverse offer and a diverse demand.

[BasketBaller]

On my budget I can only hire occasionally. I usually hired for an hour but recently had preferred two hour sessions. $300 an hour I can handle, but $600 is tough. A few escorts offer multi-hour discounts or 90 minute sessions. I'm grateful to those guys.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I just read the thread "Empty Bed", so let me add one more thing just to illustrate a little bit more what I mean by a diverse demand.

I never hire overnights or extended times, not because of their costs but because that is not what I am into. Many clients look for companionship, I just want good, old, raw sex. If you are looking for spending more than a couple of hours with a guy, I understand you need (I would) somebody educated, sophisticated, a good conversationist, etc., which of course carries an extra cost.

Of course I do enjoy the company of an educated guy, but I can get that for free. I have enough friends and a few lovers, although they are not escort hot. I may hire a premium escort and pay premium rates, but I only want the sex, I do not need more than two hours for that.

If the guy I hire is very ignorant and a conversation with him is torture. I do not mind, as long as he is damn hot, damn good lover, and I can keep his mouth busy. There is no shortage of these guys at affordable rates.

[Juan Vancouver]

Ah, so you were replying to the hypothetical VIC concept in your reply. Fair enough. Commodification is about the race to the bottom. Everything I wrote is the exact opposite of that, so I imagine we're aligned, we simply use very different language.

 

I apologize because maybe I have not explained myself clearly enough. No, I know we are not saying the same thing using different language.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

"How are we doing, Howard?"

"Well, doctor Stein, however, I have been really stressed, plagued by the unresolved memories of my late father..."

"I'm going to stop you right there, Howard. You know you haven't purchased the VIP Therapy package, so we can only talk about your job related stress."

"Oh, sorry Doctor Stein. Maybe next month I'll be able to afford the VIP package."

"Very well, so how are you doing AT WORK?"

 

A VIP treatment where the service provider opens a wider array of services that are not available to the lower tier clients is only conceivable when one is selling products or impersonal services. The more product a customer purchases the higher status he has.

 

A personal service based on a human, intimate interaction cannot be de-humanizingly commodified like this. One has to start from the assumption that one will receive a fully intimate, personal and satisfying service regardless of how many hours I am able to purchase. The mere fact that a someone is using this service entitles this person to a fully devoted service. Every single time.

 

A therapist, a nurse, a nanny, a long term care worker cannot -because of the nature of their work- create different tier clients because that would immediately mean the lower tier clients are not getting the service they should be entitled to receiving.

 

A manicurist, a blowjob giver, a personal trainer, they can create different tier clients because the interaction with their clients doesn't have to come from an intimate, human contact. They provide an impersonal service.

 

Either you de-humanizingly reduce a worker and his skills to a product and then try to sell it as much as you can, or you honour the intimate human interaction of the service he is providing and treat him like a person, understanding that a person has different needs than a product.

 

You cannot see the same person both as a thing and as a human being.

[LivingnLA]

I apologize because maybe I have not explained myself clearly enough. No, I know we are not saying the same thing using different language.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

"How are we doing, Howard?"

"Well, doctor Stein, however, I have been really stressed, plagued by the unresolved memories of my late father..."

"I'm going to stop you right there, Howard. You know you haven't purchased the VIP Therapy package, so we can only talk about your job related stress."

"Oh, sorry Doctor Stein. Maybe next month I'll be able to afford the VIP package."

"Very well, so how are you doing AT WORK?"

 

A VIP treatment where the service provider opens a wider array of services that are not available to the lower tier clients is only conceivable when one is selling products or impersonal services. The more product a customer purchases the higher status he has.

 

A personal service based on a human, intimate interaction cannot be de-humanizingly commodified like this. One has to start from the assumption that one will receive a fully intimate, personal and satisfying service regardless of how many hours I am able to purchase. The mere fact that a someone is using this service entitles this person to a fully devoted service. Every single time.

 

A therapist, a nurse, a nanny, a long term care worker cannot -because of the nature of their work- create different tier clients because that would immediately mean the lower tier clients are not getting the service they should be entitled to receiving.

 

A manicurist, a blowjob giver, a personal trainer, they can create different tier clients because the interaction with their clients doesn't have to come from an intimate, human contact. They provide an impersonal service.

 

Either you de-humanizingly reduce a worker and his skills to a product and then try to sell it as much as you can, or you honour the intimate human interaction of the service he is providing and treat him like a person, understanding that a person has different needs than a product.

 

You cannot see the same person both as a thing and as a human being.

 

I understand precisely where you're coming from now, thank you for the example and the detailed explanation. Generally speaking, I agree with what you're saying with a few differences.

 

In your example, I would say that's a terrible experience because "Doctor Stein" failed to establish clear expectations prior to the session beginning.

 

Let me try something here, my apologies if it's unclear. Let's look at about those escorts who vary their rates? Say $300 for one hour but $500 for 2 hours or $1.2k for an overnight. That's an implicit prioritization of a client willing to spend more time.

 

As I said previously, the VIC idea was a hypothetical thought experiment. But, it is important for escorts to recognize the business aspects of what they do, why the do it, and how to make a healthy living while doing it.

 

Private Therapists, nurse, nannies, and more "personal services" professionals in my area do have tiers in the sense that they charge a baseline for their baseline service. But, there would absolutely be an upcharge for greater access or higher touch. For example, being able to call the therapist 24/7. Expecting the nurse to do more than just nursing. Nannies who travel with the family. All of these are add-ons or bolt-ons to their baseline service.

[+ Keith30309]

I apologize because maybe I have not explained myself clearly enough. No, I know we are not saying the same thing using different language.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

"How are we doing, Howard?"

"Well, doctor Stein, however, I have been really stressed, plagued by the unresolved memories of my late father..."

"I'm going to stop you right there, Howard. You know you haven't purchased the VIP Therapy package, so we can only talk about your job related stress."

"Oh, sorry Doctor Stein. Maybe next month I'll be able to afford the VIP package."

"Very well, so how are you doing AT WORK?"

 

A VIP treatment where the service provider opens a wider array of services that are not available to the lower tier clients is only conceivable when one is selling products or impersonal services. The more product a customer purchases the higher status he has.

 

A personal service based on a human, intimate interaction cannot be de-humanizingly commodified like this. One has to start from the assumption that one will receive a fully intimate, personal and satisfying service regardless of how many hours I am able to purchase. The mere fact that a someone is using this service entitles this person to a fully devoted service. Every single time.

 

A therapist, a nurse, a nanny, a long term care worker cannot -because of the nature of their work- create different tier clients because that would immediately mean the lower tier clients are not getting the service they should be entitled to receiving.

 

A manicurist, a blowjob giver, a personal trainer, they can create different tier clients because the interaction with their clients doesn't have to come from an intimate, human contact. They provide an impersonal service.

 

Either you de-humanizingly reduce a worker and his skills to a product and then try to sell it as much as you can, or you honour the intimate human interaction of the service he is providing and treat him like a person, understanding that a person has different needs than a product.

 

You cannot see the same person both as a thing and as a human being.

 

I concur. "Intimate human interaction" in a profile tells me I'd be very likely to feel very good after spending time with that person.

 

And, to take it a step further, if I know that Escort A has VIP clients then what kind of person does that me? I'm a Very Kinda-sorta-maybe-important client? I've seen profiles that cite different rates for an "ordinary session" and "extraordinary session" and something tells me that I'd be unlikely to enjoy either.

[Juan Vancouver]

LivingnLA,

 

I am puzzled by your vehement insistence on the fact that we are agreeing and saying the same thing. Disagreeing and having different points of view is nothing to be ashamed of. If I disagree with you, this is not a personal attack on you and your moral fibre.

 

No, we are not saying the same. At all. And your resistance or inability to accept that suggests to me that maybe you are on one side of the river, while wanting to get praise for being on the other side.

 

Nannies, therapists, long term care workers do not have different tier clients where some clients are better than others. Clients sometimes have the ability to purchase further access into the service providers' time. Travel, live in, more hours, 24-7 access, you name it. The nature of the interaction, the quality of the service, the compassionate, present, loving, caring nature of the service provider MUST continue to be exactly the same whether he is hired for one hour or indefinitely till nana dies.

 

A prostitute can throw in an extra blowjob after you pay for ten. He can only bottom for clients who pay the premium rate. He can try to cram as many people as his body allows (and sometimes a couple more) to make sure he makes the most out of his product. He is selling a product, a thing.

 

A personal companion devoted to providing a fully devoted personal, human, compassionate interaction can't, under any circumstance see some clients as better or worse depending on how much money they spend on him. There is no gray area in here.

 

If you are able to mix these two entirely different paradigms in your mind without making it explode, then power to you.

 

I can't, and I won't. I have to choose the paradigm that best reflects my nature and instincts and make all my choices with the intention to respect and honour that paradigm. And as far as I am concerned, being observant this way has not worked against my ability to make a living and take care of myself. I am able to run a successful practice, while showing congruence between my beliefs and my actions.

 

I think we have reached an impasse. I leave this conversation. God knows I attempted to explain my point of view as clearly as I was able to.

 

Peace to everyone! (And Peace AND Love to all of you who purchased the VIP distinction plan.)

[LivingnLA]

LivingnLA,

 

I am puzzled by your vehement insistence on the fact that we are agreeing and saying the same thing. Disagreeing and having different points of view is nothing to be ashamed of. If I disagree with you, this is not a personal attack on you and your moral fibre.

 

No, we are not saying the same. At all. And your resistance or inability to accept that suggests to me that maybe you are on one side of the river, while wanting to get praise for being on the other side.

 

Nannies, therapists, long term care workers do not have different tier clients where some clients are better than others. Clients sometimes have the ability to purchase further access into the service providers' time. Travel, live in, more hours, 24-7 access, you name it. The nature of the interaction, the quality of the service, the compassionate, present, loving, caring nature of the service provider MUST continue to be exactly the same whether he is hired for one hour or indefinitely till nana dies.

 

A prostitute can throw in an extra blowjob after you pay for ten. He can only bottom for clients who pay the premium rate. He can try to cram as many people as his body allows (and sometimes a couple more) to make sure he makes the most out of his product. He is selling a product, a thing.

 

A personal companion devoted to providing a fully devoted personal, human, compassionate interaction can't, under any circumstance see some clients as better or worse depending on how much money they spend on him. There is no gray area in here.

 

If you are able to mix these two entirely different paradigms in your mind without making it explode, then power to you.

 

I can't, and I won't. I have to choose the paradigm that best reflects my nature and instincts and make all my choices with the intention to respect and honour that paradigm. And as far as I am concerned, being observant this way has not worked against my ability to make a living and take care of myself. I am able to run a successful practice, while showing congruence between my beliefs and my actions.

 

I think we have reached an impasse. I leave this conversation. God knows I attempted to explain my point of view as clearly as I was able to.

 

Peace to everyone! (And Peace AND Love to all of you who purchased the VIP distinction plan.)

 

Thank you for the very thoughtful post. I apologize for being insufficiently skilled in text communication to convey my thoughts in such a way as to reveal how we agree. Such is life and text is a woefully inadequate form of communication for such nuanced and complicated topics.

 

We actually do agree. I admire your intellect and where you're coming from, but I am unable to adequately convey my point of view. Be well and thank you for the thoughtful exchange.

[bigvalboy]

I just read the thread "Empty Bed", so let me add one more thing just to illustrate a little bit more what I mean by a diverse demand.

I never hire overnights or extended times, not because of their costs but because that is not what I am into. Many clients look for companionship, I just want good, old, raw sex. If you are looking for spending more than a couple of hours with a guy, I understand you need (I would) somebody educated, sophisticated, a good conversationist, etc., which of course carries an extra cost.

Of course I do enjoy the company of an educated guy, but I can get that for free. I have enough friends and a few lovers, although they are not escort hot. I may hire a premium escort and pay premium rates, but I only want the sex, I do not need more than two hours for that.

If the guy I hire is very ignorant and a conversation with him is torture. I do not mind, as long as he is damn hot, damn good lover, and I can keep his mouth busy. There is no shortage of these guys at affordable rates.

 

LOL...I think we agree on most things @latbear4blk, but on this I have a different approach to hiring, not better, just different, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate your honesty in how you approach this topic. I think if more people had that much clarity, and understood what they wanted/expected from a hire, then there would be far less failures...Kudos to you.