Couple of things...

[killianjamesnyc]

Maybe I'm being overly literal, but "the client is always right" is not equivalent to "do everything you reasonably can to meet the client's needs," which is the customer service ethos I want. I have seen, in retail situations, unreasonable and abusive customers catered to and policies broken because "the customer is always right."

 

I feel like from this and other posts on this thread you (and maybe some others) don't understand my position, so I'll spell it out. Of course the escort should be helpful and polite even if the person calling is asking about information that's in the profile the escort has spent time crafting and should stay helpful and polite to the end unless the caller becomes abusive, at which point hanging up may be the only option. But that doesn't mean the caller gets to keep the escort on the phone for as long as he pleases, either. There is a point -- and those of us who are not escorts don't know where it is because we don't have experience with it -- past which even the most well-intentioned call affects the escort's ability to deal with other clients, appointments, and the like. Time is not infinite.

 

The distinctions Killian makes between people who ask specific questions and open-ended one makes sense to me as a way of separating out who's ready to commit to meeting and those who aren't. Some proportion of the latter category are people who never intended to hire and are deliberately wasting the escort's time. Others need time to think about the situation. It may not be easy to distinguish. "Take a look at my ad and e-mail or text me specific inquiries" is a great way to end the conversation, but I'll bet it doesn't always work.

 

By the same token, once a caller has gotten a response like "no, I don't/can't do incalls," arguing with the escort about it suggests that the caller is not a good fit for that escort both because the caller is looking for an incall (as is his prerogative even if he could possibly do an outcall) and because the caller is being an ass about it. Ending the conversation then with a "then this isn't going to work" is more respectful of the caller's time (because now he's wasting his time arguing with the escort rather than moving on) as well as the escort's. That kind of client -- the one who won't take "no" for an answer -- is the type I suggested in my original response was not worth having anyway.

 

As others have said, ultimately it's a matter of what arrangements work for each person involved. Each is free to walk away and move on to the next caller or escort. There are times when escorts response to inquiries are rude, unreasonable or not conducive to obtaining business. There are times when clients are rude, unreasonable, or act in a way not conducive to transacting business. It's not all one way or the other.

 

Hey QTR,

 

When I said open ended questions I should have been more specific. The most popular are "what are you going to do to me" "tell me more about yourself" and "what are you into". It's very easy to put the ball back into the court of the client and make meeting more likely. By simply saying things you're here to fulfill a fantasy for them. It's not about what I want it's about what you want. I want to do as less talking as possible, make the conversation 90% listening and simply let them know if there's an issue meeting an expectation. I don't think of the open ended questions I mentioned as a lack of commitment. it's just that weird gray area that's not productive in the client getting across what they want, and the confirmation it can happen, leaving the train at a stand still. Specific questions versus open ended questions are always a sure sign for me. If someone asks me if I can fuck them, that's cool. Yes I can. But I can't entertain open ended questions such as how hard, what positions and other details we can hash out in the moment. That's getting into the realm of phone sex, I don't have a 1-900....yet. At the point when I need to describe a fantasy on the spot and describing specific acts I then redirect them to the reviews that mention some stuff they're looking for.

[+ WilliamM]

One wouldn't expect anything "less" from Jimbo. He's one charming guy.

 

Clearly, he's not particularly interested in make any friends here --- and that's an understatement.

[jjkrkwood]

That gets into territory that is beyond the question at hand. So does the comment about enabling or spoiling escorts to which I responded.

 

That said, maybe "abuse" is the wrong term. "Counterproductive criticism," maybe? Criticism of the body or look of an escort ("he should hit the gym") as if the comments were made in a room he didn't have access to. Some of the negative discussions of escorts in the Deli. Some questions that it would be useful to have answers to being no win situations for escorts to answer honestly because too many clients don't want to hear the answers. - I believe people behave here the way they would if they were talking face to face with a friend. If my friend and I were discussing an escort, I would have no hesitation in describing the escort as out of shape or small dicked if that were the case. I think we tend to forget that the escort is privy to our comments HERE.

 

An example that is not abuse or criticism but which shows that escort participation around here can be a no-win situation: A client/potential client contacting an escort to complain about him spending time posting on the forum rather than responding to his inquiry -- an example that ties into the original topic. (Hey, I got to use this as Exhibit A even sooner than expected!)

 

It's not extending to escorts the same level of courtesy for having a viewpoint that is extended to other clients and the attitude that client posters here can say whatever they want about escorts however hurtfully they want. They're human beings with feelings too and their own points of view, not taxis or widgets.

 

It's often been expressed here that providing a satisfying experience to people who are older, overweight, or otherwise unattractive is the most difficult part of being an escort. I think having to put oneself out there for public consumption without letting that mess you up is the most difficult part of being an escort and that if any client were subjected to the kind of responses that putting oneself out there elicits (see link above for some mild examples), they'd run for the hills.

the escort has CHOSEN to do this as his work, and certain things come with the territory. Most of us have jobs that are difficult at times: we deal with it .

[jjkrkwood]

Clearly, he's not particularly interested in make any friends here --- and that's an understatement.

 

 

Why does he need friends, he's got Benjamin ? :p:p

[JamahlBrandon]

I'd rather have a robot spout off initial information for new clients than y'all deal with cheaply hired labor to talk to y'all.

 

I concur...for atleast for the first 3 questions. Maybe just put a 1 minute delay in between responses. I can't remember what site it was back in the day, maybe gay.com...you'd message a bot and they'd immediately respond with a bunch of info. Actually, Grindr does that too. Something like, "that was fast dude".

 

I like all the ideas presented so far. However, some of it can be dealt with accordingly. I often ask people who barrage me with texts and questions to call. It's really annoying when someone you've never met, they just contacted you out the blue, blowing your phone up...then they say stuff like, "hope I didn't offend you or say the wrong thing" before you can even see the first message out of the 5 they sent you in a 1 minute timeframe." And those same ones are the very type to hang up on YOU when you answer their questions and then decline some outlandish service they're asking for.

 

As has been said before, text culture has contaminated many forms of communication. However, I also feel the websites don't always clearly explain info. Or maybe they do, but there's so much information distraction going on. When someone is looking at your ad, they're also seeing rentman of the day, sponsor ads, men4sexnow ads all glistening on the same page. Whereas back in the stone ages, a magazine like hotspots would have just 3 lines of texts with rate, phone number, and in or outcall and 1 headline neatly positioned in a little box.

 

My 2 main questions that relate to this thread are: when people call and immediately ask, "where are you staying". They've not offered any information on themselves, haven't confirmed rate, have no idea even what they're name is.

 

The other is when my ad is another city and its automatically assumed I'm there now and can meet right now. It's like, how does one convey to someone that an ad in a city doesn't mean I'm there right now. Even when I put it in my ad, it still seems to not be understandable that I first need to put an ad up before I can travel there.

[killianjamesnyc]

Being able to drive a conversation isn't easy, but very possible, I do it often. When you signed up to be an escort, publicly disclosed a number and an email you made a decision that gave everyone with the ability to use a phone or a PC the right to get in touch with you. Any time for any reason. It's just the reality. Part of the job is filtering. Its called sales. You talk to leads, some are hot some are Luke warm just needing a little extra fire, and some are totally Cold and make you laugh. How often do you walk into a store, look around and ask a commision based rep about an item. You took up 5 minutes of her time, only to walk out empty handed. She can't get pissed because she knows that eventually she'll make a sale to offset the item you didn't buy. Accept that silly questions and filtering arejust a part of what you signed up for. Accept it, but don't go the distance to entertain it only to get burned.

[jjkrkwood]

Being able to drive a conversation isn't easy, but very possible, I do it often. When you signed up to be an escort, publicly disclosed a number and an email you made a decision that gave every ding bat the right to get in touch with you. Any time for any reason. It's just the reality. Part of the job is filtering. Its called sales. You talk to leads, some are hot some are Luke warm just needing a little extra fire, and some are totally Cold and make you laugh. How often do you walk into a store, look around and ask a commision based rep about an item. You took up 5 minutes of her time, only to walk out empty handed. She can't get pissed because she knows that eventually she'll make a sale to offset the item you didn't buy. Accept that filtering is just a part of, but don't go out of your way to get burned.

 

http://centralfloridainvestigations.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ColdCaseReview_slide.jpg

[killianjamesnyc]

I believe everyone in a sales based position ( like all escorts ) should treat it like this and for most potential clients that contact me, this is the case. However, you wouldn't walk into Barneys, ask a bunch of questions and then get offended when its not Walmart prices. That later situation I can see happening more if I comply with RentMen's request to remove my rate information.

 

No I personally would not do that, but I can see it happening. Rates never came to mind when chiming in on all this. It's posted and visible 99% see it and the other 1% forgot what it was but knew it was okay because they called for an appt. I can't recall someone ever being offended by my rate, as I ask them to acknowledge my posted rate before we make plans to meet, often wiggled into the conversation very early on. When has rentmen asked anyone to remove rates? That's news to me. If it's able to be input but they're encouraging you not to post it, that seems contradictory if they're worried about anything legal. Not posting rates is a good way to drum up inquires and have your ad show up in a max rate filtered search potentially leading to more business. As they say, You never know until you try.

[killianjamesnyc]

Ah, I heard something about that, anything exclusive always leaves the little guy with the shit end of the stick. It's restrictive and not too much of a benefit. You worked to make a profile that works for you, let others figure out what works for them. The point is to stand out. RENTBOY used to do something similar. Every ad on cocos account would have the escort introduce themselves by name, and include a blurb about education, open mindedness and some mention of a hobby. You could go through pages of consecutive ads saying almost the same thing. I kid you not.

[+ not2rowdy]

I'd rather have a robot spout off initial information for new clients than y'all deal with cheaply hired labor to talk to y'all....

 

Oh…I don’t want to talk to cheaply hired labor either… or are we talking about you … I digress… that was nasty… but you are so damn cute… so maybe not so nasty… hmmm……

 

 

I just got an email from RentMen this morning and they're asking me to remove about half the info in my profile now ( all of my rate information as well as whether I do in or out calls )....

 

It’s a tough situation providers are facing. RB is gone. M4RN has removed rate info. RM seems to be moving that direction too. Hourboy is loaded with ancient profiles. CL and BP are loaded with scams (with some rare jewels intermixed). GayRomeo has a very small presence here. Maybe there’s a business opportunity for retiring providers for a new startup for advertisers. Probably based overseas in a “friendly” jurisdiction.

 

 

We're almost at that point where it'll be cheaper and easier for me to just advertise a phone number on Twitter and I have a bot send you about 10 text messages in a row with booking information.

 

Don’t know about Twitter. Never used it. Not very up on most social media. Suspect I’m not alone. It took a long time to get comfortable texting. But I guess if the incentive is there I can try to learn to adapt.

[down_to_business]

...

 

 

 

Don’t know about Twitter. Never used it. ....

 

Don't feel bad. Look at its stock price and performance and you will see you are in the definite majority on this one!

[down_to_business]

For the ones that get offended on the location question, and believe me I get it... sometimes a general reply can resolve the issue without giving away your privacy. Like 90210, or uptown, or the financial district. That question isn't necessarily meant to be as it might be taken "I am one nosy son of a bitch who is demanding to know exactly where you are staying right now". It could just be a poorly worded attempt by a real potential client to ascertain if he is anywhere in the ballpark of doing an in call with you. This annoying question can get to the heart of that issue in one question. It might take 3-4 questions being less forward/direct to ascertain the same information including a long boring introduction about how I am traveling, not familiar with the area, don't have my own transportation-- all likely stuff you probably don't give a fuck about and would get angry at me for wasting your time bringing it up in a conversation anyway!

 

On the other hand, he could be just one nosy time wasting son of a bitch after all.

[killianjamesnyc]

For the ones that get offended on the location question, and believe me I get it... sometimes a general reply can resolve the issue without giving away your privacy. Like 90210, or uptown, or the financial district. That question isn't necessarily meant to be as it might be taken "I am one nosy son of a bitch who is demanding to know exactly where you are staying right now". It could just be a poorly worded attempt by a real potential client to ascertain if he is anywhere in the ballpark of doing an in call with you. This annoying question can get to the heart of that issue in one question. It might take 3-4 questions being less forward/direct to ascertain the same information including a long boring introduction about how I am traveling, not familiar with the area, don't have my own transportation-- all likely stuff you probably don't give a fuck about and would get angry at me for wasting your time bringing it up in a conversation anyway!

 

On the other hand, he could be just one nosy time wasting son of a bitch after all.

 

There's nothing wrong with asking where someone is. How else is someone supposed to be able to get there? If your an escort in midtown on a Friday afternoon in June, I'd have to plan on baking in time for traffic to be on time. If took 2 seconds to say 55 & 9 it took a lot more energy getting annoyed. If you're getting bothered by someone asking where you live or if you're in town right now so they can come to you and hire you, get a grip most people don't understand the travel date feature or how to navigate a profile, and they can care less.

[jimboivyo]

"these guys?" Good way to insult everyone in such a sweeping general statement.

 

did you also flip your hair when you wrote that?

[jimboivyo]

One wouldn't expect anything "less" from Jimbo. He's one charming guy.

Clearly, he's not particularly interested in make any friends here --- and that's an understatement.

 

you both need more in your lives if you're concerned about making friends on an online message board

[jjkrkwood]

you both need more in your lives if you're concerned about making friends on an online message board

 

 

 

 

Its not about making friends, its about Not making enemies. If you choose to be an Asshole, I'm OK with it. Afterall, since Rockhard is no longer here, we need someone to take his place. Someones gotta be the court Jester... Good Work Jimbo...

[+ WilliamM]

you both need more in your lives if you're concerned about making friends on an online message board

 

I'm surprised by your response.

 

There are many way to make friends, sometimes life-long friends. I met my three-four closest friends in ways that did not seem, at the time, to predict 40-50 year friendships.

[bigvalboy]

Poor Zach...if he only knew.

[AdamSmith]

If you choose to be an Asshole, I'm OK with it.

OTOH In Case Of Emergency...

http://www.sassysanta.com/wp-content/themes/sassysanta/products/images/asshole-repellent2-250x250.jpg

[bigvalboy]

OTOH In Case Of Emergency...

http://www.sassysanta.com/wp-content/themes/sassysanta/products/images/asshole-repellent2-250x250.jpg

 

I wonder if this comes in 30 gal drums...

 

[AdamSmith]

I wonder if this comes in 30 gal drums...

It must. Everything else seems to!

 

http://www.11points.com/images/ingredients-lube.jpg

[jjkrkwood]

I wonder if this comes in 30 gal drums...

 

 

 

 

Probably at Costco ?

[killianjamesnyc]

Anyways, if we go back to the original post because everyone here has ADD/ADHD..

 

 

 

I attribute the issue about travel dates more so to the awful layout for travel information on the RentMen site. I have repeatedly asked them to make things a bit more user-friendly but repeatedly get an unconcerned / not a priority answer. This is probably where the industry could use another big time competitor to RentMen to help things along.

 

However, the one thing that I don't understand are potential clients getting upset or furious about someone either not in a particular location or not taking in / out calls when it is in the ad. Normally a few here and there is no big deal, but recently it seems to be much more

common to have to answer to rudeness. Oh well, more folks to go on the client blacklist.

 

To be honest I don't see what's wrong with the layout. The same complaints that are being discussed are echoes of RENTBOY. Someone sees a photo, gets excited and calls the listed number. They have the cash, you turn them on, they want to Smush with you and any details beyond that are over looked. We love it when it's working and hiring is happening but use scapegoats and blame the site when theres a dry spell or run into some rude people along the way. Ive accepted that sometimes it'll be busy and sometimes it'll be slow. It's not the site that's at fault, all it means is no one was horny enough to hire that day. What do you mean by upset or furious? Like do they yell at you? Are they in tears? Do they call you a whore and hang up in your face? I've gotten a tone of disappointment but never what I'd call furious or made to feel like I ruined someone's day. Although it would be interesting to listen to someone having an epic melt down from being too cock hungry I can't say I've been a victim of any rude behavior, or the last time was so long ago I can't remember. maybe I'm so numb to it, it all it goes completely over looked. Whatever it is im just happy that it IS.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I have repeatedly asked them to make things a bit more user-friendly but repeatedly get an unconcerned / not a priority answer. This is probably where the industry could use another big time competitor to RentMen to help things along.

 

To be honest I don't see what's wrong with the layout. The same complaints that are being discussed are echoes of RENTBOY.

 

Exactly! And how well did that work out for Rentboy?

 

As I stated on the post about the "Traveling Pack," I wouldn't give RentMen an A+ for their handling of consumer protection and ad verification. So it's interesting to read that on even more basic issues like how user-friendly their format is to people who pay to advertise, they are less than A+.

 

Part of my 30,000 foot level conclusion, from a political perspective, is that same sex marriage and prostitution are world's apart. In the first, we could summon up a sense of moral decency or moral outrage to accomplish our goals. On the second, if anything, the sense of moral outrage works against us. Sites like Rentboy and RentMen are viewed as sleazy moral backwaters, and it's been difficult to summon up urgency when the people who run them are hung out to dry.

 

For that reason alone, I would argue that RentMen would want to do a better job of listening to both clients and customers, so that if they are hung out to dry, they have people who will want to defend them. But then I might just appear argumentative. So better to keep my mouth shut.

 

[down_to_business]

There's nothing wrong with asking where someone is. How else is someone supposed to be able to get there? If your an escort in midtown on a Friday afternoon in June, I'd have to plan on baking in time for traffic to be on time. If took 2 seconds to say 55 & 9 it took a lot more energy getting annoyed. If you're getting bothered by someone asking where you live or if you're in town right now so they can come to you and hire you, get a grip most people don't understand the travel date feature or how to navigate a profile, and they can care less.

 

Well that's what I originally thought until I learned from this message forum that whatever I asked I shouldn't have asked, whatever I didn't ask I apparently should have asked. When I communicate too much, its my fault for wasting an escorts time and when I communicate too little its also my fault because escorts aren't mind readers and how were they supposed to know what I want if I don't tell them because good communication is so important.

 

I think that about sums it up!