Couple of things...

[killianjamesnyc]

Exactly! And how well did that work out for Rentboy?

 

As I stated on the post about the "Traveling Pack," I wouldn't give RentMen an A+ for their handling of consumer protection and ad verification. So it's interesting to read that on even more basic issues like how user-friendly their format is to people who pay to advertise, they are less than A+.

 

Part of my 30,000 foot level conclusion, from a political perspective, is that same sex marriage and prostitution are world's apart. In the first, we could summon up a sense of moral decency or moral outrage to accomplish our goals. On the second, if anything, the sense of moral outrage works against us. Sites like Rentboy and RentMen are viewed as sleazy moral backwaters, and it's been difficult to summon up urgency when the people who run them are hung out to dry.

 

For that reason alone, I would argue that RentMen would want to do a better job of listening to both clients and customers, so that if they are hung out to dry, they have people who will want to defend them. But then I might just appear argumentative. So better to keep my mouth shut.

 

 

Im trying to find a flaw big enough to place blame on when it comes to the site but I honestly say I can't. It works perfectly fine and it serves it's purpose. To be honest I'm impressed with how swiftly they stepped in, upgraded their servers to handle capacity and gave us the answer for business continuity we needed. Improvements take time to Implement. I think with every complex site and operation like rentmen they will improve in ways most customers can benefit overall first, then years later focus on fine tuning the details. RENTBOY was around for 20 years before they finally let users upload videos. If you traveled you spent thousands and thousands for ad upgrades, and now we pay $100 a month for three travel locations. Before anyone complains about user friendliness and updated technology, stare at what site you are on right now, it hasn't been upgraded in 15 years. Some users can't figure out how to upload a picture or insert a GIF

[jjkrkwood]

Im trying to find a flaw big enough to place blame on when it comes to the site but I honestly say I can't. It works perfectly fine and it serves it's purpose. To be honest I'm impressed with how swiftly they stepped in, upgraded their servers to handle capacity and gave us the answer for business continuity we needed. Improvements take time to Implemment. RENTBOY was around for 20 years before they finally let users upload videos. If you traveled you spent thousands and thousands for ad upgrades, and now we pay $100 a month for three travel locations. Before anyone complains about user friendliness and updated technology, stare at what site you are on right now, it hasn't been upgraded in 15 years. Some users can't figure out how to upload a picture or insert a GIF

 

It couldn't be easier

[jjkrkwood]

Well that's what I originally thought until I learned from this message forum that whatever I asked I shouldn't have asked, whatever I didn't ask I apparently should have asked. When I communicate too much, its my fault for wasting an escorts time and when I communicate too little its also my fault because escorts aren't mind readers and how were they supposed to know what I want if I don't tell them because good communication is so important.

 

I think that about sums it up!

 

http://blogs.music.indiana.edu/jumpstart/files/2014/06/CliffNotes-120.jpg

[killianjamesnyc]

Oddly though I hadn't ran into such problems when I was advertising on RentBoy, even with travel ads. Simple requests that I could literally code in less than 5 minutes include text formatting and even a simple overlay if wanted when clicking on a travel ad to confirm travel dates as they are subject to change, blah blah blah. If anything, my original post about the site layout is more so a jab at the RentMen staff for now becoming more idle about some things. They're still making improvements but in talking with them it has certainly slowed down because they have no competition now.

 

 

 

Haha, I've gotten passive aggressive and bitchy responses about not being in a specific city. One I actually got yesterday was "Then why are you wasting my time?" when I responded that I was not yet in San Francisco. Though now that I think about it, its only been specific to my San Francisco ad more recent. Maybe its a west coast thing. I never get bitchy or passive aggressive comments from my NYC or Austin clientele.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd really like to believe not, I think that they are so busy right now with picking up the slack due to no competition that it's hard to engage them, they simply don't have the time. I'm pretty good at picking up on being intentionally dismissed, I just don't feel that with them. They can't satisfy every customer complaint, but they can prioritize them and fix what makes sense for most users. What makes sense for most users is the unknown, but I'm sure its justified somehow.

[killianjamesnyc]

To continue off of this thought. Before the RentBoy bust, RentMen was about to release version 3.0 ( Currently on 2.0 ) of their site according to a few of their staff members. The intent was more security ( even two-factor authentication ) along with a more streamlined mobile experience with additional profile options. When somehow one of my passwords leaked out *cough*RentBoy storing plain text passwords*cough* I asked RentMen how they stored passwords which with 2.0 is only an MD5 hash, still horribly insecure. 3.0 was suppose to introduce SHA256 encryption with salting.

 

Still no introduction of 3.0..

 

All that confuses the hell out of me, but how can a password just all of a sudden be leaked out. Did someone hack it or was the password just visible somehow.

[killianjamesnyc]

One more final note on rentmen. Imagine if someone at rentmen saw these remarks about the quality of the site, what the thoughts are about their operations and so on. I think it's always better to be optimistic and give credit when it's due, especially when we rely on them to earn. Oh you wanted a call back within 48 hours? Your credit card got declined? I'm so sorry it took me 10 days to get back to you, I hope not being able to advertise didn't hurt too bad. I was swamped and in over my head.

 

Just something to think about. They don't have to let just any body advertise, they could live without the $100, but it's a blessing that we still have a way to. I'm pretty grateful.

[mattr]

One more final note on rentmen. Imagine if someone at rentmen saw these remarks about the quality of the site, what the thoughts are about their operations and so on. I think it's always better to be optimistic and give credit when it's due, especially when we rely on them to earn. Oh you wanted a call back within 48 hours? Your credit card got declined? I'm so sorry it took me 10 days to get back to you, I hope not being able to advertise didn't hurt too bad. I was swamped and in over my head.

 

Just something to think about. They don't have to let just any body advertise, they could live without the $100, but it's a blessing that we still have a way to. I'm pretty grateful.

 

I have been in the software business for 25+ years and while any software development team would be happy hear that there work is appreciated, what responsible companies and development teams who want to remain relevant really want to hear is what users want changed and how their site could be better. Companies build user communities simply to solicit feedback and ideas for improvement. Rentmen is hardly a philanthropic organization. They are in business to make money. The most bizarre statement you made was "they don't have to let just anybody advertise". They want as many people to advertise as possible. Once they break even, every $100 is pure profit so I think they should be equally grateful for every customer that advertises on their site and solicit and accept feedback and criticism respectfully or someone will swoop in and with a better site and take their business. If sex work is every legalized in the US, a site like rentmen will be wiped out in a New York minute unless they continue to innovate and improve while they still have somewhat of a monopoly.

[+ jc808]

I really want to agree with Killian here from the client's perspective. RM may be flawed, but so far as I can see its the best game in town, now that Rentboy was stolen by the USG. People can disagree about the morality of hiring escorts, and about what its legality is and/or should be, but Rentboy and RM provide a service for people who -- for whatever reason -- may have little or no access to intimacy in any other way. Also so far as I can tell, the age of escorts on RM (and on Rentboy) is/was mostly from late 20s to 40s and even 50s. No problem with age or trafficking here -- or at least none that can't/couldn't be fixed with vigilance and due diligence. On the street, the alternative, there sure as hell is a problem. I never hired until I was well into my 50s, but I well remember a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, when I was in my mid-20s and lived in L.A. I was driving home one Sunday morning about 8 a.m., after having taken an early morning swim at SM beach. (Kind of what I did instead of sex.) Just as I was passing the federal building at Sepulveda and Wilshire the Mercedes in front of me abruptly pulled over to the curb and let out a poorly dressed, scruffy kid who was maybe 16, maybe, and then sped off. It was pretty clear that this was a client depositing his "escort" in a convenient and isolated area (on Sunday morning) -- it was certainly not a dad dropping junior off for soccer practice. Of course, he picked that kid up the night before from the hundreds working the streets. That was the reality before the internet and sites like RM and Rentboy, and that is the reality those who would destroy them will bring again -- not just to the areas where it still exists and might yet be eliminated, but everywhere.

[killianjamesnyc]

I totally agree with you 100%, suggestions are vital in making any product better. But what companies, including rentmen, don't want or appreciate are advertisers complaining openly then demanding they get heard immediately and suggestions be accepted as the answer to what's been missing. What's important to understand is that things take time and everything is a process. I'm sure rentmen has listened and is doing their best to make it all happen eventually. What I meant by my statement was just how it sounded. If a noisy customer violates the websites user agreement it's totally justified to turn them away over something they usually wouldn't care about.

 

You're probably asking, what's an example of rentmen taking a suggestion and making it happen? Well, the day and following weeks after RENTBOY got shut down I was in constant contact with them, brain storming and making suggestions in private. I pushed hard for platinum boosting and ID verification. Even though they had plans to eventually make both happen, as more escorts cried for visibility it became more of a priority. I finally got the call that the boosts were going live a few days before and ID verifications are going live soon. Taking customer suggestions into considerstion is essential to improving the experience. just because you think it's a good idea, doesn't mean they do or its worthwhile to make happen right away. Finger pointing, throwing insults and chewing people out, like we sometimes do on here, many times works against us. Has anyone noticed Rick doesn't participate on here Anymore? He's probably busy working on projects to make the website better.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I think it's always better to be optimistic and give credit when it's due, especially when we rely on them to earn. Oh you wanted a call back within 48 hours? Your credit card got declined? I'm so sorry it took me 10 days to get back to you, I hope not being able to advertise didn't hurt too bad. I was swamped and in over my head.

 

We're both right.

 

In an ideal world, they'd be perfect. In an ideal world, even if they made massive fuck ups, we'd be gracious and realize how dependent on their site we are: as escorts, how much we appreciate the ability to advertise; or as clients, how much we appreciate the opportunity to look through the hot pictures of escorts who you might decide to hire. I agree.

 

In the real world, the picture is very different. I still have to compartmentalize away how quickly so many people were willing to diss on Rentboy when the bust came down, and how little appreciation there actually was for what they had done. It was a perfect example of how you ought to listen to and respect people you meet on the way up, because you may need their help when you come back down.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Some users can't figure out how to upload a picture ...

 

Funny you mention that, Killian. I've never been able to figure out how to use that photo upload function.

 

Am I just that much of an asshole?

 

(Giving BVB opportunity to comment, which he misses since he is preoccupied cleaning up mess with his cum towel).

[stop]

The customer is always right concept is about a company that has customer service as its highest priority. I think though, that the concept of the customer is always right has really diminished in the past decade. Not every customer need can be met by all companies. A lot of businesses have developed their own core values and then determined what customer base fits with what their values are. A good company will recognize that not every customer is a match for their company.

 

Having customer services as a company’s highest priority or value means that the employee’s have less value than the customers. Southwest Airlines was one of the first big companies to realize that by having the customer always right it went against their core value of putting their employee’s first. They are known as providing exceptional customer service and they do that in part by recognizing that not all of their customers are always right. My prior company would tell some clients or potential clients that they were not a good fit for us. The key is however doing it in a professional way that doesn’t completely piss off the other party.

 

Killian has excellent points about service and he raises some good points that the clients should consider when contacting pros… But one thing for the pros to keep in mind though is some of us still have anxiety about contacting a pro. Some of us may have self-image or confidence issues. I know when I contact somebody I still have that twinge of crap what is this guy going to think of me for having to contact a pro.

 

The pro I am contacting knows nothing about my back ground or why I am looking for a pro, so yea my self confidence is a bit low when I first contact somebody so I may ask stupid questions because I am more concerned about getting through the conversation without feeling embarrassed or ashamed than I am about remembering what exactly was in the ad. I try to take the approach to a pro that I used to take when I was trying to hook up on A4A. Yea I knowit isn’t about dating but for me, it makes me less self-conscious about making contact.

 

I also sometimes want to confirm that what I read was correct because sometimes ads are inconsistent or change. The rate may be 250 in Chicago but in LA it could be 300. If I see a guy that is going to be in my city but not yet there, how do I know the rate is the same?

 

 

 

Also did a whole bunch of posts get deleted? Killian has some responses to Kurtis but I don’t see Kurtis’ posts or were they posts from a different thread? I don’t have anybody blocked so I should be able to see all posts.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Companies build user communities simply to solicit feedback and ideas for improvement. Rentmen is hardly a philanthropic organization. They are in business to make money. The most bizarre statement you made was "they don't have to let just anybody advertise". They want as many people to advertise as possible. If sex work is every legalized in the US, a site like rentmen will be wiped out in a New York minute unless they continue to innovate and improve while they still have somewhat of a monopoly.

 

Sheesh! That's really rude. I mean, it almost makes it sound like this is a business or a profession or something.

 

I thought I signed up for this because it was the oldest charity in the world.

 

http://www.pinstripepress.net/PPBlog/18thCentWhorehouse.jpg

(No that is not a picture of BVB he is tied up with Killian currently, Sorry! Please try again later. Click.)

[killianjamesnyc]

The customer is always right concept is about a company that has customer service as its highest priority. I think though, that the concept of the customer is always right has really diminished in the past decade. Not every customer need can be met by all companies. A lot of businesses have developed their own core values and then determined what customer base fits with what their values are. A good company will recognize that not every customer is a match for their company.

 

Having customer services as a company’s highest priority or value means that the employee’s have less value than the customers. Southwest Airlines was one of the first big companies to realize that by having the customer always right it went against their core value of putting their employee’s first. They are known as providing exceptional customer service and they do that in part by recognizing that not all of their customers are always right. My prior company would tell some clients or potential clients that they were not a good fit for us. The key is however doing it in a professional way that doesn’t completely piss off the other party.

 

Killian has excellent points about service and he raises some good points that the clients should consider when contacting pros… But one thing for the pros to keep in mind though is some of us still have anxiety about contacting a pro. Some of us may have self-image or confidence issues. I know when I contact somebody I still have that twinge of crap what is this guy going to think of me for having to contact a pro.

 

The pro I am contacting knows nothing about my back ground or why I am looking for a pro, so yea my self confidence is a bit low when I first contact somebody so I may ask stupid questions because I am more concerned about getting through the conversation without feeling embarrassed or ashamed than I am about remembering what exactly was in the ad. I try to take the approach to a pro that I used to take when I was trying to hook up on A4A. Yea I knowit isn’t about dating but for me, it makes me less self-conscious about making contact.

 

I also sometimes want to confirm that what I read was correct because sometimes ads are inconsistent or change. The rate may be 250 in Chicago but in LA it could be 300. If I see a guy that is going to be in my city but not yet there, how do I know the rate is the same?

 

 

 

Also did a whole bunch of posts get deleted? Killian has some responses to Kurtis but I don’t see Kurtis’ posts or were they posts from a different thread? I don’t have anybody blocked so I should be able to see all posts.

 

What's an example of how guys talk to pros on A4A? I have no idea and don't have a profile there and I'm curious

[stop]

What's an example of how guys talk to pros on A4A? I have no idea and don't have a profile there and I'm curious

 

Sorry, didn't mean pros....meant back when I used to hook up with other guys...

[killianjamesnyc]

Sorry, didn't mean pros....meant back when I used to hook up with other guys...

 

Tell me more. What's the first thing you'd text, say or email someone you want to hire. I'm just curious to know how you capture a real professionals interest and be able to approach it like a hook up. I don't know EVERYTHING, about everything, including how to juggle this scenario.

[BabyBoomer]

 

 

 

Also did a whole bunch of posts get deleted? Killian has some responses to Kurtis but I don’t see Kurtis’ posts or were they posts from a different thread? I don’t have anybody blocked so I should be able to see all posts.

 

Yes. Kurtis went overboard showing off his smarts.

 

~ Boomer ~

[+ stevenkesslar]

Yes. Kurtis went overboard showing off his smarts.

 

~ Boomer ~

 

Oh. I guess I really don't know shit.

 

I thought the whole point of this discussion was to have a place for Kurtis to show off his smarts.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nZsBcTh9Mcg/VeRPNwvs76I/AAAAAAAAHmY/3LNolmtuC3Q/s1600/5.jpg

(Sorry. BVB is still occupied with Killian. Kurtis is available. I guess BVB don't know shit either and missed another opportunity. Click.)

[stop]

Tell me more. What's the first thing you'd text, say or email someone you want to hire. I'm just curious to know how you capture a real professionals interest and be able to approach it like a hook up. I don't know EVERYTHING, about everything, including how to juggle this scenario.

 

wow I feel like you are being really aggressive towards me, which I find strange since I was agreeing with what you were saying but maybe I am reading too much into it.

 

Usually I will start a mini conversation with a pro via Rentmen to get a bit of a feel for them.

 

I say a bit about what I was into/looking for without being graphic. Saying something like I am looking to bottom or I am looking to top, into kissing/making out..etc. If you were traveling to my town I would then confirm that you were actually in town because sometimes there are multiple cities listed. I would also outline that I am looking for the future and say what date I was looking for. I only set stuff up for the future not the same day. I would then say I will text you closer to the date/time to confirm

 

 

When I text I would generally start off saying..hey is this X's number I have reached? If you answered yes, I would say probably hey this is Y, I saw you on Rentmen and had sent you a message on X date and that I am interested in meeting up. I would ask if you had availability for X date for a couple hours at around X time. I would also confirm what the rate is at this point.

 

So far most has been one sided on my side after I have confirmed that I was texting with the right person. I would then give the guy a chance to respond.

 

Once they responded I would ask if they prefer having a discussion on the phone or if they are ok with how we have conversed.

[+ Truereview]

Me below, trying to keep up with this thread. Send a versatile man to save me.

http://www.bariatric-surgery-source.com/images/8-years-postweight-loss-surgery-and-out-of-control-21720013.jpg

[stop]

Yes. Kurtis went overboard showing off his smarts.

 

~ Boomer ~

 

Oh thanks...I hate that I wish that when a post was deleted to thread reflected that a post was deleted.

[bigvalboy]

(Sorry. BVB is still occupied with Killian. Kurtis is available. I guess BVB don't know shit either and missed another opportunity. Click.)

(No that is not a picture of BVB he is tied up with Killian currently, Sorry! Please try again later. Click.)

 

What the hell just happened? What a convoluted mess. Still trying to figure out how I got dragged into all of this.

 

All's we need now is for JD to chime in.

 

And if you get a chance Steven, while you're busy uploading all these pics, could you up load one of yourself...

 

I'll get the cum rags ready right after my girl wipes the floor with that old man on CNN tonight. Right now I'm making a cocktail and a cheese platter. She's up double digits in NY.

 

RIGHT NOW....I'm outta here.

http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/abandon-thread/abandon-thread013.gif

[killianjamesnyc]

Well you're self conscious, I had to put you on the spot and force an honest answer out of you Something tells me you've been pretty successful in hiring. your approach sounds confident and is exactly how to purse someone. It's respectful, polite and straight forward. It sounds nothing like planning to hook up off A4A, grindr etc. Whatever your feeling when planning to meet an escort doesn't sound like its an issue with confidence. The theme of the conversation is what YOU want. People with no confidence usually just take what they can get, that doesn't sound like you. You know what you want, asked for it the right way, and now its up to chemistry to do its thing. All you're feeling are the jitters, it's normal. Keep doin you

[+ stevenkesslar]

And if you get a chance Steven, while you're busy uploading all these pics, could you up load one of yourself...

 

Ahh, there you are, good buddy.

 

Figured you'd chime in once you got a chance.

 

Hope we didn't drag you away from anything important.

 

And by the way, how'd things work out with Killian?

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V9U__gBwUj0/U6aIAddr8VI/AAAAAAAB4QE/w2EPo5526qI/s1600/gif12.gif

 

(No that is not me. Wish it was. If you want to see me get on a fucking plane with your high class gin and come to Palm Springs and mix me a fucking cocktail.)

[jjkrkwood]

OMG, this is all too much for the good Sister...... FUCK IT !

 

Cheesecake or Anal Beads ?

 

http://cdn.onegreenplanet.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10//2014/03/IMG_2155-1200x800.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/Zw5M98Z.gif http://www.dsdimages.com/Images/122/Medium/ts132-model.jpg