How Do We Feel About The Term 'Homosexual'

[+ Gar1eth]

The reason I bring this up is that I was just reading a Dear Abby column from a day or two ago. The LW (that's 'letter writer' for those who don't follow the discussions on DA (Dear Abby)) wanted advice from DA about going back to his small hometown for his 50th high school reunion with his husband. The LW referred to himself as "I'm a happily married gay (my 'bolding' not the LW's) man living in metro Atlanta. " In her reply, DA used the term 'homosexual' and wrote, "If anyone has a problem with the fact that you are homosexual (my 'bolding' not hers) and married, do not make it your problem."

 

I realize it probably doesn't actually make a significant difference. But I was expecting DA to use the same term 'gay' as the LW did. DA using 'homosexual' seemed very jarring to me. While the term 'homosexuality' seems ok to me, when I hear 'homosexual' in my mind's ear as DA used it here, I hear it pronounced disdainfully in exaggerated syllables by someone most likely with a thick southern drawl/twang "homo-sex-yew-ul."

 

I know terms change over time, but for me I prefer the term gay although obviously I'd rather hear/read homosexual than something derogatory like homo or pansy (or b-tch for that matter).

 

I guess it's all personal taste and what you are used to hearing. But does DA's choice of term seem a bit jarring to anyone else besides me?

 

Gman

[rvwnsd]

Using the word "homosexual" in 2016 strikes me as a bit odd. I'm not offended, but it seems odd. "Ask Amy" would probably use the word "gay."

 

As an aside, Jeanne Phillips, the current Dear Abby and daughter of the original, is 74 years old. Her age could have something to do with the use of the word "h0mosexual."

[+ Gar1eth]

Using the word "homosexual" in 2016 strikes me as a bit odd. I'm not offended, but it seems odd. "Ask Amy" would probably use the word "gay."

 

As an aside, Jeanne Phillips, the current Dear Abby and daughter of the original, is 74 years old. Her age could have something to do with the use of the word "h0mosexual."

 

I knew the current DA was Jeannie Phillips. I didn't realize she was in her 70s.

 

Gman

[AdamSmith]

I recall the original Dear Abby's replies generally came with something of a similar stylistic stick up their ass, compared with those of her hepcat sister Ann Landers.

 

Abby was born Pauline Esther Friedman, and her twin sister was born Esther Pauline Friedman. Abby was known as Popo at home (short for Pauline), and her sister was Eppie (a nickname from E.P.).

 

A similar column, Ask Ann Landers, was written from 1955 to 2002 by the elder Phillips twin sister Eppie Lederer. A few months before Pauline Phillips started Dear Abby, her twin sister Eppie Lederertook over the Ann Landers column created by Chicago Sun-Times advice columnist Ruth Crowley in 1943. This produced a rivalry and lengthy estrangement between the two sisters.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_Abby

[AdamSmith]

P.S. Although Dear Abby (the daughter) did write this classic:

 

You could move.

 

— Abigail Van Buren, Answer to a reader who complained that a gay couple was moving in across the street and wanted to know what he could do to improve the quality of the neighborhood.

[+ poolboy48220]

of the current advice columnists (I love the term from Downton Abbey, "Agony Aunts"), Dan Savage is my favorite but to quote him, "I use the word 'fuck' too much to ever make it in the daily papers". Of the ones that are in the dailies, Carolyn Hax is by far my favorite. She doesn't follow the usual method of just agreeing with the LW; sometimes she really sets them straight.

 

Back with the original authors, I always preferred Ann to Abby. Dan Savage bought her desk at her estate sale.

[+ quoththeraven]

I find Dan Savage hit or miss. I like Carolyn Hax the best. Annie's Mailbox isn't bad. Slate's Dear Prudence is awful.

 

Dear Abby may have used the word homosexual because it's more formal and technically correct. I doubt it was meant as an insult.

[+ Gar1eth]

I find Dan Savage hit or miss. I like Carolyn Hax the best. Annie's Mailbox isn't bad. Slate's Dear Prudence is awful.

 

Dear Abby may have used the word homosexual because it's more formal and technically correct. I doubt it was meant as an insult.

 

I didn't think she meant it as an insult. And I'd have to go back and read her columns over the years, but I would have thought she had used the term gay before.

 

I only read Savage occasionally. He can be funny and informative. But I don't swear lot (except quietly to myself), and I don't really like filthy language just for the sake of being filthy.

 

Here's something interesting about the Dear Prudence column. It was originally started by a guy named Herbert Stein who was the father of Ben Stein. In the UK he'd have been called an Agony Uncle.

 

The current Dear Prudence hasn't been writing it that long-Mallory Ortberg. The other day she actually advised someone who had a one time affair, planned never to do it again, and felt guilty about it to tell her partner. While yes, that is the honest thing to do, the 'standard' answer from years ago which I think I subscribe to is just because you are feeling guilty and want to punish yourself, why do you want to punish your partner too. Now I could see admitting to it-or trying to figure out what's what with the relationship if it keeps occurring. And of course if you are in the political sphere or if by bad luck you've caught an STD, then that's a different story.

 

Gman

[rvwnsd]

I knew the current DA was Jeannie Phillips. I didn't realize she was in her 70s.

 

Gman

 

I did not know she was in her 70's until I googled her name.

[+ quoththeraven]

I didn't think she meant it as an insult. And I'd have to go back and read her columns over the years, but I would have thought she had used the term gay before.

 

I only read Savage occasionally. He can be funny and informative. But I don't swear lot (except quietly to myself), and I don't really like filthy language just for the sake of being filthy.

 

Here's something interesting about the Dear Prudence column. It was originally started by a guy named Herbert Stein who was the father of Ben Stein. In the UK he'd have been called an Agony Uncle.

 

The current Dear Prudence hasn't been writing it that long-Mallory Ortberg. The other day she actually advised someone who had a one time affair, planned never to do it again, and felt guilty about it to tell her partner. While yes, that is the honest thing to do, the 'standard' answer from years ago which I think I subscribe to is just because you are feeling guilty and want to punish yourself, why do you want to punish your partner too. Now I could see admitting to it-or trying to figure out what's what with the relationship if it keeps occurring. And of course if you are in the political sphere or if by bad luck you've caught an STD, then that's a different story.

 

Gman

 

I didn't realize Dear Prudence was being written by someone else. Mallory Ortberg is the co-founder of The Toast. Although I agree with you that telling a partner about an affair if one is feeling guilty is mostly just a way to share the pain. It was the former writer of Dear Prudence, whose name I've suppressed, who was awful.

[+ Gar1eth]

I find Dan Savage hit or miss. I like Carolyn Hax the best. Annie's Mailbox isn't bad. Slate's Dear Prudence is awful.

 

Dear Abby may have used the word homosexual because it's more formal and technically correct. I doubt it was meant as an insult.

 

I didn't think she meant it as an insult. And I'd have to go back and read her columns over the years, but I would have thought she had used the term gay before.

 

I only read Savage occasionally. He can be funny and informative. But I don't swear lot (except quietly to myself), and I don't really like filthy language just for the sake of being filthy.

 

Here's something interesting about the Dear Prudence column. It was originally started by a guy named Herbert Stein who was the father of Ben Stein. In the UK he'd have been called an Agony Uncle.

 

The current Dear Prudence hasn't been writing it that long-Mallory Ortberg. The other day she actually advised someone who had a one time affair, planned never to do it again, and felt guilty about it to tell her partner. While yes, that is the honest thing to do, the 'standard' answer from years ago which I think I subscribe to is just because you are feeling guilty and want to punish yourself, why do you want to punish your partner too. Now I could see admitting to it-or trying to figure out what's what with the relationship if it keeps occurring. And of course if you are in the political sphere or if by bad luck you've caught an STD, then that's a different story.

 

Gman

 

I didn't realize Dear Prudence was being written by someone else. Mallory Ortberg is the co-founder of The Toast. Although I agree with you that telling a partner about an affair if one is feeling guilty is mostly just a way to share the pain. It was the former writer of Dear Prudence, whose name I've suppressed, who was awful.

 

@quoththeraven I'm not familiar with The Toast-what is it?

 

Per Wikipedia-

 

Howard Stein only wrote the column for three months at the end of 1997 going into 1998.

 

Margot Howard (Ann Lander's daughter) took it over after a hiatus in 1998 and continued until 2006 when she started her own Dear Margo column for Creator's Syndicate which she ended in 2013.

 

Emily Yoffee whom you don't like had it from 2006 until last November when Mallory took over.

 

I don't read it a lot, and I'm not sure I always agreed with Emily. But I know I did sometimes. And I've already disagreed with Mallory a few times too.

 

With Dear Abby there is a Discussion Forum where you can comment. Dear Prudence has some kind of discussion after it occasionally. But I don't think it's as easy to get on as the one for Dear Abby -or at least I can't find out where it is. I think that's a drawback of the Prudence column.

 

Gman

[rvwnsd]

I didn't realize Dear Prudence was being written by someone else. Mallory Ortberg is the co-founder of The Toast. Although I agree with you that telling a partner about an affair if one is feeling guilty is mostly just a way to share the pain. It was the former writer of Dear Prudence, whose name I've suppressed, who was awful.

Seems like Prudence has been penned by a quite a few different people:

 

• Herbert Stein, 12/1997 - 3/1998
  
• Margo Howard (the daughter of Eppie Lederer, a/k/a Ann Landers), 3/1998 - 2/2006
  
• Emily Yoffe, 2/2006 - 11/2015
  
• Mallory Ortberg, 11/2015 - present
  

I'm guessing QTR's least-favorite was Emily Yoffe.

[+ Gar1eth]

Seems like Prudence has been penned by a quite a few different people:

 

• Herbert Stein, 12/1997 - 3/1998
  
• Margo Howard (the daughter of Eppie Lederer, a/k/a Ann Landers), 3/1998 - 2/2006
  
• Emily Yoffe, 2/2006 - 11/2015
  
• Mallory Ortberg, 11/2015 - present
  

I'm guessing QTR's least-favorite was Emily Yoffe.

 

I was editing my last post to include this info. You beat me to it though.

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

Seems like Prudence has been penned by a quite a few different people:

 

• Herbert Stein, 12/1997 - 3/1998
  
• Margo Howard (the daughter of Eppie Lederer, a/k/a Ann Landers), 3/1998 - 2/2006
  
• Emily Yoffe, 2/2006 - 11/2015
  
• Mallory Ortberg, 11/2015 - present
  

I'm guessing QTR's least-favorite was Emily Yoffe.

 

Yup, it was Yoffe. Thank you and Gman for the information on who has written Dear Prudence. I suspect Slate got so many angry letters about Yoffe that they cut her loose. (I think she's a staff writer/columnist, though; she may well still be doing that.) I don't remember the specifics, but I think I remember her being slammed for treating all relationships as if they should be monogamous and for dissing a trans person's concerns and experience in a response.

 

@quoththeraven I'm not familiar with The Toast-what is it?

 

Gman

 

The Toast is a website/daily blog that contains a mix of humorous and serious short essays.

[+ poolboy48220]

The Detroit Free Press carried someone named Harriet Cole for a while. She was awful. Her answers were so soft, loving, and totally impractical. I remember several occasions where someone complained about being treated badly in some way, and her advice was along the lines of "tell him, in a loving and compassionate way, how much what he's doing bothers you". I had the impression that most of these people had the intent of hurting the LW in the first place.

[MikeyGMin]

I'm fine with straight people using "homosexual" but cringe whenever they add "lifestyle" to it. Our orientation is not a lifestyle! My favorite term when talking among my friends is "Homo" or just "Mo." I like taking the word back and turning the slur into something that sounds playful (at least to me.) But you have to be a member of the tribe to use either.

 

I always use "gay" when talking to straight people. I also like "queer" but it has taken on a political aspect I don't use in general conversation.

[+ Truereview]

As far as the term homosexual, I embrace it bc when you are the biggest one in the room, there is no sense in denying it, and you might as well own it and work it...So, yes, I am a big ol' homo- sex-yew-ul.

[+ azdr0710]

when you have a few free minutes, some interesting stuff on the origins of "gay" to mean homosexual

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

 

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/02/how-gay-came-to-mean-homosexual/

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-homosexuals-called-gays

[AdamSmith]

More explicitly than the above sources, John Boswell in Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality traces the association of the word 'gay' with same-sex attraction back to the Provencal word 'gai' and the thirteenth- and fourteenth-century Provencal troubadours. See footnote 6 on this page from the book:

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=3kzgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=were+provencal+troubadours+homosexual&source=bl&ots=lu-3hsJYK_&sig=_SZhX7P_hvaBbE-kd8ijsMtBEEA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw6Iv97sDLAhVGOCYKHQmhBZcQ6AEIHzAB#v=onepage&q=were provencal troubadours homosexual&f=false

[+ purplekow]

You can call me gay. You can call me bi. You can call me homosexual. Just do not call me late for the orgy.

[+ Gar1eth]

I'm fine with straight people using "homosexual" but cringe whenever they add "lifestyle" to it. Our orientation is not a lifestyle! My favorite term when talking among my friends is "Homo" or just "Mo." I like taking the word back and turning the slur into something that sounds playful (at least to me.) But you have to be a member of the tribe to use either.

 

I always use "gay" when talking to straight people. I also like "queer" but it has taken on a political aspect I don't use in general conversation.

 

I know for there was a movement to take back the f-words "f-g" and "f-gg-t". But I have to tell y'all they both set my teeth on edge worse than homosexual. I'm not really too fond of "homo" or "pansy" either. But the f-words are the ones that probably bother me the most.

 

You can call me gay. You can call me bi. You can call me homosexual. Just do not call me late for the orgy.

 

We promise, @purplekow, not to call you late for the pre-orgy dinner either. After all you will need something to keep up your strength for the 'festivities'.

 

Gman

[jjkrkwood]

Homosexual I find as a descriptive term, and when used as such, I have no problem with it. I feel its objectionable only because we now live in evolved and progressive times when a word that was the OG has now been replaced by more widely used and politically correct one. For me political correctness reeks havoc on the fabric of our society. Oh how I long for the simpler days when you could smack your kid, or call your friend Fat

without repercussion.

[+ Gar1eth]

Homosexual I find as a descriptive term, and when used as such, I have no problem with it. I feel its objectionable only because we now live in evolved and progressive times when a word that was the OG has now been replaced by more widely used and politically correct one. For me political correctness reeks havoc on the fabric of our society. Oh how I long for the simpler days when you could smack your kid, or call your friend Fat

without repercussion.

 

Original Gangster?

 

Gman

[jjkrkwood]

Original Gangster?

 

Gman

 

Good Boy Gman, you are up on pop-culture lingo....

[Juan Vancouver]

I don't find it offensive in the least bit. It's the correct term and in this context it is clearly entirely out of any negative charge.

 

I believe this might just be you, being overtly sensitive with language. Not right or wrong, it just is. After all, you are the same man who refuses to use the word dick.

 

Fully respect your right to feel your discomfort, but I would find it off base if you started a campaign to stop Dear Abby to use the word homosexual

 

The other day she actually advised someone who had a one time affair, planned never to do it again, and felt guilty about it to tell her partner. While yes, that is the honest thing to do, the 'standard' answer from years ago which I think I subscribe to is just because you are feeling guilty and want to punish yourself, why do you want to punish your partner too.

 

I am confused... since when is being honest and having integrity while allowing your partner to have all the relevant information on your relationship the same as punishing your partner?

 

Personally I find that in the context of an intimate, committed relationship, deception is the most deplorable and damaging offence.

 

To me, the very best advise column ever written is Dear Coquette. Incredibly intelligent, filled with empathy for the right people and caustic chastisement for the rest. I haven't found an instance in which I disagreed with her, while I often disagree with all the others.

 

Check her out!