Friend Sends E-Mail Asking for Money

[seaboy4hire]

HE made the proposal that once on his feet he would begin paying it back in installments, said that was the only way he was comfortable taking it. I said fine. I also said for now just concentrate on getting well. And I joked I had no doubt he would get well and once he was he better start paying it back haha. That was almost 4 yrs ago.

 

Did you get this in some form of writing? If so, I would take him to court. 10k is a bit of cash. That could give a lil bump to your mutual funds, cd or ira. Just sayin.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[Guest]

Always remember this. If you lend someone money you don't have any right to decide what they do with it. They may pay it back (or not) in accordance with what you agree but in between you have no say.

Well, unless you have a signed agreement, this is probably true in a literal sense. But if a friend tells you "Would you lend me $500 so I can pay the rent this month?" or "Would you lend me $500 so I can buy some life-saving medications?" and then he spends it on a vacation or on drugs, the friend has misled you and obtained the money fraudulently. Substance abusers are often liars and assholes, and I'm glad I don't seem to attract them into my life. My latest ex was quite crazy and a magnet for trouble, but at least he didn't have a problem with drugs, for which I'm very thankful. If I ever lent (or gave) someone money for a certain purpose, then found out he used it for another purpose, that would be the end of the friendship as far as I'd be concerned.

[mike carey]

If I ever lent (or gave) someone money for a certain purpose, then found out he used it for another purpose, that would be the end of the friendship as far as I'd be concerned.

Quite so. The trouble is that money is fungible. If you lend or give someone money for a particular purpose and they then spend some money on another purpose you can't know whether it was your money that they used for that other purpose, or some other money that they already had. You also have virtually no way of knowing if they spent any money (yours or some they already had) for the purpose for which you gave or lent them money. That's why I said in the post you quoted that the only control you have (and I should have said the only visibility you have) is at the point you give or lend the money and the point at which you get it back.

[Guest]

Well, I think it's pretty clear that if someone tells you "I lost my job and if I can't get my hands on $500, I won't be able to pay my rent and will be kicked out on the street," and then they spend it on a vacation, then he has clearly swindled the money from you using subterfuge, even if it was true that he lost his job. Of course, if it's a true friend, I would expect to hear about job problems or health problems long before it became necessary for me to lend the person money. I don't like hearing any equivalent of "You're not important enough to me for me to be discussing personal issues like health or career, but please send me some money."

To me it's along the same lines of why I don't accept "invitations" to "Bridal Showers." I find the whole concept of bridal showers offensive. For me, the message is "You're not important enough in my life for me to invite you to my wedding, but go buy me a present anyways."

[LADoug1]

* I would only lend money to family/friends I can afford to not get back. It makes no sense to stress out your own financial situation if you're not repaid as then two people have financial problems. Lending to someone who isn't a friend means first deed of trust on property, lien on first born or some other form of collateral.

* I have only lent money to friends twice in the past and several thousand of dollars each time. I was paid back both times in full. I am still very close friends with both people and we rarely talked about the loans during the time of repayment.

* Try as I have, I can't figure out how to take my money with me and actually doubt there is any benefit to having it in heaven (yes, that's where I'm going). I have had some stressful financial periods in my life and I think money problems are (other than life threatening health issues) the worst and the stress very harmful to us physically and mentally. If I can afford to help a friend/family member avoid that I will.

* Maybe I'm unique but I fear being penniless more than serious illness, probably because I believe money continues to allow me to have good medical care including insurance. And we all know or read about a financial adviser that insists we absolutely cannot have enough retirement savings (even if you have tens of millions they'll say you need more) which just feeds the feeling we don't have enough. Imagine how many people on their last day on Earth regret that they worried too often about a financial non problem versus a relationship issue and/or something they didn't do in life (trip, more enjoyable career, whatever). Of course there are people that really do have financial problems and their worrying is well founded but I bet the number that really don't is big.

Great post! Especially point number 1.

[LADoug1]

But I am finally composing an email and saying that I "could" use that $$ now can he begin making even some nominal payments etc.

Glad you are going to do this. Shows you are taking good care of yourself.

[LADoug1]

Substance abusers are often liars and assholes

 

So true. And I made the mistake of loaning money to one of them. End of story? End of friendship.

[Tonyko]

Glad you are going to do this. Shows you are taking good care of yourself.

LOL I am being very selfish from now on. I have always refused to let friends who are much better off constantly pick up the check, but that never stopped ME from picking up the check with friends who are less well off than I. NOW it does stop me. Which is why I now let THEM choose the joint, if they chose it they can afford it :-)

[Irtwo]

To me it's along the same lines of why I don't accept "invitations" to "Bridal Showers." I find the whole concept of bridal showers offensive. For me, the message is "You're not important enough in my life for me to invite you to my wedding, but go buy me a present anyways."

 

Is that how that works, the people invited to a bridal shower are not invited to the wedding? If that's so, then I agree that is kind of rude.

[mattr]

I have lent money 4 times in my life...

 

1. To my brother who was under a mountain of credit card debt due to drug addiction. He was trying to turn his life around but the debt was dragging him down. I negotiated settlements with the credit card companies on his behalf and paid off the balances ($10k). He paid me back with interest (modest) and turned his life around. I felt so good being able to help him. Tragically he died several years later when a drunk driver crossed the median and hit him head on.

 

2. To a friend who was buying a new home and needed a bridge loan. I let him tap the unused home equity line of credit I had on my house. He made all the payments and when the sale of his home went through he paid off the balance.

 

3. To an Aunt who needed $5K. I never saw that money again but it was OK because I could afford to lose it. I see her at family functions all the time and she never mentions it. I have forgiven her and moved on because I think having a positive relationship with my family is more important than the $5k.

 

4. To my sister who was buying a house and could not get a conventional loan. I gave her a personal loan of $100k with a fixed rate for 30 years. She is on track to fully pay it off in another 7 years (20 years early).

 

I am mentioning this because it is possible to lend friends and family money but in all cases these were/are very close relationships and I was confident they would all pay me back. I was wrong about 1 of them. I also could afford to lose the money in all cases although the home loans would have hurt, a lot!

 

In the case mentioned in this thread however, I would not lend any money. If you can afford to give it without expectation of it being returned, go for it, if not, simply refuse as has been suggested by so many of the posters here.

[LADoug1]

Tragically he died several years later when a drunk driver crossed the median and hit him head on.

 

So sad. I'm so sorry for your loss.

[LADoug1]

To an Aunt who needed $5K. I never saw that money again but it was OK because I could afford to lose it. I see her at family functions all the time and she never mentions it. I have forgiven her and moved on because I think having a positive relationship with my family is more important than the $5k.

So mature of you. Wish I had the same maturity and ability to forgive.

[Guest]

1. To my brother who was under a mountain of credit card debt due to drug addiction.

...

3. To an Aunt who needed $5K. I never saw that money again but it was OK because I could afford to lose it. I see her at family functions all the time and she never mentions it. I have forgiven her and moved on because I think having a positive relationship with my family is more important than the $5k.

...

Fascinating story, mattr. If I would have had to guess which loan for which you'd never see a penny back again, it would be the loan to the drug-addicted brother. In a majority of cases, drug addicts don't recover unless they've hit rock-bottom. That is, they've lost their jobs, family, home, etc. Although 12-step programs instruct recovering addicts to make amends to people the addict has harmed, I seldom find addicts doing that. It's quite a credit to both you and your brother that he was able to quit with your help, and even pay you back. Hats off--I'm impressed. It's interesting that the only loan you got jilted on was the only one whose purpose you didn't mention. Have you ever asked her directly?

[Guest]

Is that how that works, the people invited to a bridal shower are not invited to the wedding? If that's so, then I agree that is kind of rude.

I think that's pretty much the case. I've been invited to a number of weddings, and have never also been invited to a bridal shower in those cases. Conversely, in all of the times I've been invited to bridal showers, I've never also been invited to the wedding. Interestingly, I once read a letter/response in Miss Manners' column, in which she also opined that the concept of bridal showers is somewhat tacky/rude. But bridal showers sure are prevalent. We seem to be in a gift-grabbing society. I will attend baby showers, though, especially if the expectant mother isn't well-off. At least when it comes to baby showers, I don't get the feeling of being passed over for the main event.

[gallahadesquire]

From the other side:

 

I left a reasonable job after college, to go to medical school. In those days, school debt wasn't what it is now ... tuition was $600 [six hundred] the first year, and had risen to $900 [nine hundred] the fourth year. What with fees, which were minimal; housing for four years; and two cars ... I came to owing $17,000 overall, to my mother. Once I started my residency, I started to pay her back ... then "forgot" after three or four years, and she never came looking for it.

 

In retrospect, I was just going to get back after she died. She died, and I did. My only surviving sibling, the other heir, had her mortgage forgiven (more like forgotten by agreement) so we both wound up being equal.

 

Actually, that $17,000 was the best investment she could have made, as it will go to her grandchildren.

[mattr]

Fascinating story, mattr. If I would have had to guess which loan for which you'd never see a penny back again, it would be the loan to the drug-addicted brother. In a majority of cases, drug addicts don't recover unless they've hit rock-bottom. That is, they've lost their jobs, family, home, etc. Although 12-step programs instruct recovering addicts to make amends to people the addict has harmed, I seldom find addicts doing that. It's quite a credit to both you and your brother that he was able to quit with your help, and even pay you back. Hats off--I'm impressed. It's interesting that the only loan you got jilted on was the only one whose purpose you didn't mention. Have you ever asked her directly?

 

My brothers addiction did tear our family apart but he was an extremely strong and smart person. Family was very important to him and I think when he realized that we could have nothing to do with him any longer, he decided he was done with drugs. It took a while for us to believe him but he proved to us that he was really turning his life around. He never asked for the money but one day I was paying for something with a credit card and he said he was done with credit cards because of the interest they charge. Probing a bit further, I found out how much he owed and how much interest he was being charged. That's when I offered to help negotiate the debt down and pay it off for him in the form of a loan. I am very glad I did it.

 

My Aunt has a struggling business and she needed the loan to make payroll. She has mentioned several times that she knows she owes me money and will pay me back soon. It has been 6 years so I have written it off and I believe that she has rationalized not paying me back because i don't "need" the money. I am comfortably middle class and although $5k won't make or break me it would pay for a nice vacation or two, or some optional home improvements. I have always lived a modest life in order to save the money for retirement. I live on a simple budget. A fixed % of my income goes to savings. Whatever is left over after I pay my all bills is fun money.

[Guest]

You sound like one hell of a classy man, mattr. I'm not sure I would have done the same thing in your shoes. Thankfully, I've never had a family member in dire straights, except a step-sister I've hardly ever known (never lived with her). My mother (her step-mother) threw a lot of money at her over the years. I was never happy about it, because she kept making bad decisions well into middle age, and I feel as if there's a certain age (maybe 40?) when one should stop having to need others bail one out of trouble. In her late 50s, she's apparently finally become self-sufficient (although I don't ask my mother whether she's still sending her money).

[+ Funguy]

I have a friend who loaned a mutual friend $25,000 (!!) and who actually could afford to lose it if not repaid. The recipient lied to her (and others) as to the reason the money was needed and was acting upset enough that when when she hesitated, he threatened suicide. They had a promissory note but he never "got around" to making any payments even with reminders and a number of years later when she had a very brief financial crisis and reminded him, he laughed at her and reminded her that the statute of limitations on the transaction had passed. She chalked it up to her being a total idiot, got over her crisis and is fine.

I, however, ran into the asshole in a high-end store and said very loudly, "I'm so happy (facetious) that you are still alive and did not commit suicide all these years after you stole the 25 grand from XXXXX. I'll be sure to give her and XXX and XXX your regards!" The guy was with a new wife who looked as if she had been struck by lightening! What FUN!

[tedbear]

A friend's dog was dying and I offered to loan her the money to pay for the surgery in return for future work around my house. Then, she had to move and I paid for the rent down payment on her new place and moving expenses, with these costs going on her tab. Then there was another emergency with the dog. It now was a couple of thousand bucks, at least. Then, my fortunes changed and I had to leave Chicago, selling the place I had bought at the height of the real estate boom at a huge loss. I asked her to help me get the place fixed up to sell. She still owed me all that money.

 

She wanted to know if I was going to pay her for her work or not (said with attitude).

[geminibear]

I have a friend who loaned a mutual friend $25,000 (!!) and who actually could afford to lose it if not repaid. The recipient lied to her (and others) as to the reason the money was needed and was acting upset enough that when when she hesitated, he threatened suicide. They had a promissory note but he never "got around" to making any payments even with reminders and a number of years later when she had a very brief financial crisis and reminded him, he laughed at her and reminded her that the statute of limitations on the transaction had passed. She chalked it up to her being a total idiot, got over her crisis and is fine.

I, however, ran into the asshole in a high-end store and said very loudly, "I'm so happy (facetious) that you are still alive and did not commit suicide all these years after you stole the 25 grand from XXXXX. I'll be sure to give her and XXX and XXX your regards!" The guy was with a new wife who looked as if she had been struck by lightening! What FUN!

I like you

[Tonyko]

SOME ppl have no conscience have a diff pathology and are CAPABLE of ignoring these obligations and happily going on with their lives. Then there are those like ME who would be eaten up by it everyday until I'd paid it back (or returned the DVD sent the thankyou card responded to the Email read their new play or whatever it was I'd promised to do and hadn't)

BUT I've discovered that when confronted as someone did above, they often react like it's the FIRST time they'te aware of their obligation and will backpedal and say they will take care of it right away Okay, it's out of embarrassment, but who cares lol??

I have a bud, I went to his engagement party (gift), unisex shower (gift) Wedding (gift) and apartment warming (gift). FIVE YEARS LATER, divorce and split in progress, he had the BALLS to invite me an "apartment sale" party, price stickers on EVERYTHING. So now we are expected to what? BUY BACK OUR OWN GIFTS???

*I found one of mine, brought it over to him and said I'm taking THIS (he smiled expecting my wallet to come out) since I GAVE it to you (the smile stayed frozen) He said PLEASE OF COURSE. I'd never take back an enaggement or wedding gift, that's tacky, but the apartment warming gift he WASN'T profiting from sorry lol. (it wasn't super expensive, just a tiny Botero style piece of Lalique, it was the principle! (it's on my coffee tabe now )

http://s30.postimg.org/ty4yt0s9d/LLq.jpg

[Guest]

SOME ppl have no conscience have a diff pathology and are CAPABLE of ignoring these obligations and happily going on with their lives...

I have a bud, I went to his engagement party (gift), unisex shower (gift) Wedding (gift) and apartment warming (gift). FIVE YEARS LATER, divorce and split in progress, he had the BALLS to invite me an "apartment sale" party, price stickers on EVERYTHING. So now we are expected to what? BUY BACK OUR OWN GIFTS???

Well, I would agree that inviting you to an event where your gifts were among those items being sold was fairly tacky. But so is taking back a gift. A gift is just that--it's not a loan, and not an "obligation." I also agree that wedding showers and engagement parties (that last one is a new one on me) are somewhat tacky, gift-grabbing opportunities. I generally politely decline invitations to wedding showers, but you chose to go to these events. Obviously, if the wedding had been called off, any engagement or wedding shower gifts should be returned. But a 5-year marriage is not a sham, even if you seem to think that the length of the marriage is a joke.

If you had to take back the gift, I'm glad it was the housewarming gift, and not the engagement/bridal/wedding gifts, because if you had taken one of those back, it would have clearly sent the message that you felt their marriage was a farce, and that perhaps they never really loved each other. Divorce is extremely expensive, and it generally involves a significant scale-back in lifestyle, especially for the man in a marriage with mixed genders. Your friend is probably going through (and has been through) some rough times, and it seems a tad bit petty to be wagging your finger at him at this time, which seems to be what you were doing.

I find it a bit bizarre that you chose to support him when things were going well, but show your judgmental side when he's having a rough time. I might have declined going to the apartment sale. But this seems to be a time when your friend might appreciate some kindness. He's already suffering from rejection and financial loss.

[Tonyko]

[quote="

I find it a bit bizarre that you chose to support him when things were going well, but show your judgmental side when he's having a rough time. I might have declined going to the apartment sale. But this seems to be a time when your friend might appreciate some kindness. He's already suffering from rejection and financial loss.

 

Rejection and Financial loss my ass who said THATo_O??? The split was so acrimonious on both sides they fought over who got what and the solution was to sell it all n split the dough. (and they, both white collar profs btw, were BOTH there keeping an eye on the other along with an estate sale runner) Sorry, what THEY did was tacky, and they needed to know, and I LET them know by my action:mad:. I think I DID show kindness by NOT encouraging OTHER friends there to do the same. Yes, a gift is a gift, but inviting THE SAME PEOPLE who gave you said gifts to a party to buy it all back (sans any financial desperation) is SHITTY. If they were gonna do it they should have advertised and filled the place with STRANGERS. Nuff said:mad:

[LADoug1]

I have a bud, I went to his engagement party (gift), unisex shower (gift) Wedding (gift) and apartment warming (gift). FIVE YEARS LATER, divorce and split in progress, he had the BALLS to invite me an "apartment sale" party, price stickers on EVERYTHING.

 

Unbelievably tacky and inappropriate.

[Frequentflier]

My brothers addiction did tear our family apart but he was an extremely strong and smart person. Family was very important to him and I think when he realized that we could have nothing to do with him any longer, he decided he was done with drugs. It took a while for us to believe him but he proved to us that he was really turning his life around. He never asked for the money but one day I was paying for something with a credit card and he said he was done with credit cards because of the interest they charge. Probing a bit further, I found out how much he owed and how much interest he was being charged. That's when I offered to help negotiate the debt down and pay it off for him in the form of a loan. I am very glad I did it.

 

I'm sorry for your loss. What you did for your brother was wonderful and its fortunate that his life had turned for the better including restored and good family relationships before it was tragically taken. Yes, it was good financially but I'm sure meant a lot to him emotionally that his brother stepped up to negotiate lower balances and trusted and loved him enough to lend money. Its amazing the adversity some people have faced and yet work past; they are to be admired.