Yet ANOTHER fake ad on Rentmen

[+ stevenkesslar]

Just in passing, I got a text message from Sean Andrew today saying he is in town (he did say he would get in touch when he got here) and is available for in or out calls today and tomorrow. I am a little surprised to hear from him. From my previous communications, I thought perhaps he would consider me too hot to handle (not in THAT way!) My previous communications implied I wanted to "put to rest" questions about his authenticity on Daddy. Don't think I will reply. After all the recent fuss, I think I need to step back and take a break.

 

My goal is to help drive a debate about policies with Rentmen and other sites that protect all of us, including Rentmen, from scams and crimes. The world is not perfect, and there will always be Robbyys, but I like the idea that we can all work together to minimize the damage the bad apples can do.

 

This site does that very well, and has for years. Thanks Daddy and deej.

 

This is a family week for me but I plan to stay on this because I would like to continue this as a policy discussion with Rentmen. I think there should be a "warn" button on the site and a set of clear written policies about "fake" ads. As Scorpio has said, Robbyy will pop up again, as somebody else. I think it is helpful for us to play Columbo, if we choose, and its fair to know what the rules are.

[+ stevenkesslar]

After this little fiasco, I think I need to chill out for a while. Got carried away. BUT, you have to admit, he did SEEM suspicious.

 

To be fair to Rentmen and escorts, which I happen to be one of, this is exactly why we want to be thoughtful and fair.

 

The reason I targeted Robbyy is it was 100 % obvious to me he was a scammer. The good news is that I suspect the bad apples are also dumb apples and a set of policies that is cost effective could weed most of them out, especially if you have people like us that will flag and document the Robbyys of the world to save Rentmen time.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

I'm surprised Irish69 hasn't chimed in on this from the RentMen perspective, if I can say anything based on my time working with him / having him coordinate my bookings/phones- he is the absolute MODEL of honesty and integrity. Given that he was helping RentMen out, they should increase his salary and workload, and put him on this- he'd diligently get to the bottom of it....however, here's the issue:

 

RentMen and M4RN(who I HATE, I hope RentMen takes over it ALLLLLL) both make money on the PROVIDERS(including the FAKE ones), not on the 'end user'- the clients. So they almost WANT these fake profiles and scumbags out there, they're lining up with money in hand.

 

Here's an interesting one to check out- some of the female dancers I used to manage advertise on a site called RS2k.com / RS2ktravel.com. (Nothing interesting to look at here except the FORMAT, it's all plastic chicks...)...in order to advertise with them, you have to VERIFY your identity through selfies or a drivers license picture held up against your OWN HEAD, to the website. Doesn't get posted in public- but they won't even represent you unless you are who you purport yourself to be.

 

Like that idea; not afraid of it one bit.

[+ stevenkesslar]

in order to advertise with them, you have to VERIFY your identity through selfies or a drivers license picture held up against your OWN HEAD, to the website. Doesn't get posted in public- but they won't even represent you unless you are who you purport yourself to be.

 

Like that idea; not afraid of it one bit.

 

Exactly. To me, selfies are an obvious and simple answer to scammers like Robbyy, whoever he is. It's easy enough to keep cycling through identities and series of fake photos you find on the internet, but once you are committed to that set of photos, you can't just come up with an ID or selfie or both with a matching photo.

 

You've also pointed out before, Tristan, that sites like Daddys can track IP addresses. Unless these scammers change computers as often as they change identities, I think that would be an internal tool that could help Rentmen easily weed out scammers as well.

 

I'm working off my iPad so I can't figure out how to cut and paste the last few emails I got from Laars at Rentmen, but the last one was a kind "thank you" to us for our feedback. I'll also just retype verbatim the core of his message on this verification stuff:

 

"Indeed the best way to keep scammers away is by communicating with the members of the community. Investigating profiles is among the hardest part of our work and extremeley time consuming with the volume we have. Therefore we need feedback *with strong arguments and proof* not just suspicion - that can help us identify the wrong people on the site.

I basically agree with Laars. First, as an escort, I wouldn't want a set of policies that make it easy for people to go after me because they don't like me, and are just using "suspicions" to attack me. Second, as several posters have said, I can see how you could spend an inordinate amount of time and money chasing after a few bad apples who keep popping up.

 

Having said that, there are a few policies that could make it relatively fair and easy, and Tristan just gave us a real world example of how an actual website does it. When I get back home I will start a new thread on policies, not particular escorts, to continue a discussion about this. But one obvious one to me drawing from this example of Robbyy is there should be an easy way for people like us to give feedback to Rentmen - like a "warn" button - and a clear set of written policies on how that works from Rentmen. To me it is utterly fair to focus on proof and strong arguments rather than just suspicion. In Robbyy's case that was easy because he didn't even try to find pictures that matched, and a 5 minute phone call that was free for me led him to blow up and verify her was a jerk.

 

Not every scammer is as dumb as Robbyy. Right now the traveling pack discussed in another post still has their Rentmen ads up, a week after we called them out. The three guys all have pictures that are consistent, and could be real. What does prove they are scammers (actually, that "he" is a scammer) is that they move across the United States as a pack, log in every day at exactly the same time, and change their ads at exactly the same time. It's just not possible that three different human beings could coordinate their work and time on their laptops that well. I have traveled with different escorts to various cities, and sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

 

Rentmen said it is investigating these 3 advertisers: Sean Andrews, Mike Reeves, and Toby Gooden. To me, what makes no sense is that Rentmen would have policies that put the burden of proof on us, and on Rentmen, as opposed to the scammers. Sean, Mike, and Toby are all in Seattle now. Before that they were all inSan Francsico and then Sacramento and then Portland. Next they will all be in Salt Lake City, then Denver, then Kansas City. They all travel to the same places at the same time. They all log in to their computers at the same time every day. How likely is that?

 

The easy way to prove they are scamming is what Tristan is saying another website for women actually does. Ask these three guys to send in selfies holding up IDs proving they are actually 3 different people. In this particular case, since they seem to actually be 3 peas in a pod, I'd actually require a selfie of all three standing next to each other, since they seem to be joined at the hip. As a policy, it's easy, and it's probably the quickest and most accurate way to put controversies about "suspicions" to bed.

 

By the way, Rentmen, please, please, please don't adopt policies where you require trusted and established escorts like Tristan to send you naked selfies and IDs to prove he is who he looks like in his pics. And at all costs please don't post naked selfies of Tristan. I have seen him naked. I already know Tristan is a very handsome man with a gorgeous body and a perfect cock. Do you really have to rub my nose in .... well, you know what? The only possible objective in doing so would be to drive me crazy, and drive me back to my therapist to discuss my jealousy and aging issues. Do any of us really need to endure any more of that?

[AdamSmith]

Here's an interesting one to check out- some of the female dancers I used to manage advertise on a site called RS2k.com / RS2ktravel.com. (Nothing interesting to look at here except the FORMAT, it's all plastic chicks...)...in order to advertise with them, you have to VERIFY your identity through selfies or a drivers license picture held up against your OWN HEAD, to the website. Doesn't get posted in public- but they won't even represent you unless you are who you purport yourself to be.

 

http://www.eros.com/ has a similar requirement. From their site:

 

Anti-fraud Measures & Protection Against Bad Content

 

Have you noticed a decrease in the number of ads in some of the top cities on Eros? If you have, it’s because we’ve recently begun using some new technology, and strengthened our policies that are aimed at improving the quality of the content on our site.

 

We want to make sure that Eros is the trusted directory for viewers, and a place where entertainers can advertise without the fear of unfair competition!

 

Updates to our photo review and credit card fraud prevention efforts, and diligent work by our knowledgeable staff have allowed us to make big strides in improving the overall viewer experience. As a result we’re helping to level the playing field for those of you that provide and market high end quality services. In other words, advertisers with genuine photos of themselves will only be competing with other genuine providers.

 

As example of some recent policy changes that may affect your account; If you are posting or reactivating any advertisement where no ad photo shows the entertainer’s face, either because of blurring, cropping, or other forms of concealment, you may be required to provide:

• A high quality color scan or digital photo of a valid and non-expired government issued ID
  
• An original non-cropped, non-blurred photo of the model on the ad, that is clearly from the same photo shoot as the ad photo, to compare to the entertainer’s ID
  

Eros takes our position as an industry leader seriously, and as some of our most loyal customers know, we are constantly evolving our policies to keep up with technological, political, and legislative trends. We understand and respect our customers’ desire for privacy, but we feel that it is vital to ensure that we only publish ads for entertainers who are over the age of 18, who are providing legal services, and who are using photos of the actual entertainer who will show up for an appointment. This helps us continue to provide the highest level of quality traffic and content that we can for both advertisers and viewers.

 

http://blog.erosads.com/anti-fraud-measures/

[+ honcho]

Having been in the computer business I felt moved to comment on this one tiny detail out of an otherwise worthy post:

 

You've also pointed out before, Tristan, that sites like Daddys can track IP addresses. Unless these scammers change computers as often as they change identities, I think that would be an internal tool that could help Rentmen easily weed out scammers as well.

 

An IP address is given based on how the computer is attached to the internet, and frequently not a fixed property of the computer itself.

 

If a scammer uses the same laptop from different hotel chains, the IP address will definitely change, or if posting from different coffee shops/cafes from around town will probably change.

 

Furthermore, it's possible for many different computers to seem to have the same IP address as seen by

a web site if they are all using some shared gateway using Network Address Translation.

 

So tracking IP addresses is useful supporting evidence, but not completely sufficient in all cases.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Having been in the computer business I felt moved to comment on this one tiny detail out of an otherwise worthy post:

 

 

 

An IP address is given based on how the computer is attached to the internet, and frequently not a fixed property of the computer itself.

 

If a scammer uses the same laptop from different hotel chains, the IP address will definitely change, or if posting from different coffee shops/cafes from around town will probably change.

 

Furthermore, it's possible for many different computers to seem to have the same IP address as seen by

a web site if they are all using some shared gateway using Network Address Translation.

 

So tracking IP addresses is useful supporting evidence, but not completely sufficient in all cases.

 

I agree.

 

I know this because I have a Google Voice phone number and gmail account I have actually never used on websites like this. Several times I have gotten warnings from Google that my password on the account was used from unknown IP addresses in other countries - like when I was using hotel wifi in Europe this Summer.

 

Having said that, to go back to our traveling pack of Sean/Toby/Mike, determining (as Rentmen could) that all three escorts constantly use the same IP address at the same time - whether it is the IP address associated with a home computer in San Francisco or a different IP address associated with wifi at the same hotel "they" are staying at in any of the cities "they" keep moving through - provides more evidence that it is one person scamming by presenting himself as three individuals.

 

Honestly, I don't think this is rocket science. I won't be happy if Rentmen resorts to using the idea that this is all very complicated and expensive as an excuse to tolerate scammers. As the article Adam Smith posted about Eros states in the very beginning, the real issue is that Rentmen will lose some ad revenue. So the fundamental issue is this: do you want to have a set of policies that will reduce (but not eliminate) scamming at the cost of some marginal ad revenue, or do you want to maximize ad revenue, even if it means tolerating whatever scams anybody creative comes up with? That is the choice Eros says they made, and that is the choice Rentmen faces.

[Despardo]

I agree.

 

I know this because I have a Google Voice phone number and gmail account I have actually never used on websites like this. Several times I have gotten warnings from Google that my password on the account was used from unknown IP addresses in other countries - like when I was using hotel wifi in Europe this Summer.

 

Having said that, to go back to our traveling pack of Sean/Toby/Mike, determining (as Rentmen could) that all three escorts constantly use the same IP address at the same time - whether it is the IP address associated with a home computer in San Francisco or a different IP address associated with wifi at the same hotel "they" are staying at in any of the cities "they" keep moving throuh - provides more evidence that it is one person scamming by presenting himself as three individuals.

 

Honestly, I don't think this is rocket science. I won't be happy if Rentmen resorts to using the idea that this is all very complicated and expensive as an excuse to tolerate scammers. As the article Adam Smith posted about Eros states in the very beginning, the real issue is that Rentmen will lose some ad revenue. So the fundamental issue is this: do you want to have a set of policies that will reduce (but not eliminate) scamming at the cost of some marginal ad revenue, or do you want to maximize ad revenue, even if it means tolerating whatever scams anybody creative comes up with? That is the choice Eros says they made, and that is the choice Rentmen faces.

 

I have no idea how many actual persons are involved in the Sean/Toby/Mike traveling show and nothing would surprise me. If they work as a team, one person could be manning all the accounts and fielding texts and emails at any given time, only evidence suggests they are not that organized. It would appear that Sean is in fact who he says he is--beyond that, who knows. I have found 3 or 4 reviews for Sean, and some of them are good. The poor reviews complain mainly of runarounds which has been my experience exactly. Whatever Sean is or isn't, he has rotten communication skills, no business sense, and not even a pretext of customer service.

 

My "communications" with Sean have consisted of emailing him through RentMen explaining what I was looking for, getting a short, but encouraging reply (stating I would be welcome to join "them" in Seattle) and asking that I call or text him. When I did exactly that, I got no reply for days, even though I repeated the text message detailing again what I was looking for and copied the text to Toby. Finally, I got a text from Sean saying only that he would contact me when he got to Seattle, which a week later to my surprise, he did. That same day, I got a short text from Toby announcing that there were "3 new guys" available in Seattle.

 

I pondered the situation for a day, then returned Sean's text restating my initial and oft repeated request for an encounter involving all three of them. I again asked what was possible along those lines and inquired as to an appropriate rate. The bit of (vanilla) role play I suggested is something that these dudes (gay or straight) should have been able to provide. I wanted them to "pretend" they were 3 horny straight jocks who wanted to be serviced--a college frat boy fantasy! --something I felt they could pull off without stretching their acting skills. Upshot is, that was 2 days ago, and I never heard another word from any of them. They leave tomorrow for Salt Lake. If the scenario I suggested was not cool with them, they might have said so, or quoted an exorbitant fee in anticipation of easy money, or said they were fully booked, or anything by way of reply. Instead, all I got was silence. The only conclusion here is that I am well to be free of them and should have known better in the first place.

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

Next stop, Salt Lake City??!?

Skeezy transients are attractive targets for vice cops. If these guys keep pissing people off in mid-sized cities and conservative areas, their interstate scam will get them all arrested. Then we'll learn their true stats from the story in Deseret News, or its local equivalent.

[+ stevenkesslar]

It's time to pull the ad, Rentmen.

 

Seriously, is THIS the crap you want your patrons to put up with? Really?

 

I didn't bother to document it, because in and of itself it was not enough to prove anything. But I texted Sean Oct. 19 to hire him in Portland. He said he was available and would be staying Downtown in the University area. The last text I got from him said "Let me book my hotel now." I did not hear from him again. Similar to the more extensive runaround documented above.

 

Nothing about the interaction I had with him, albeit brief, suggests to me that he is professional, or even real. The one review he has in Rentmen sounds like total bullshit.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Next stop, Salt Lake City??!?

Skeezy transients are attractive targets for vice cops. If these guys keep pissing people off in mid-sized cities and conservative areas, their interstate scam will get them all arrested. Then we'll learn their true stats from the story in Deseret News, or its local equivalent.

 

This is personal, but I'm putting my escort hat on to give you my view on this.

 

I draw the line at facilitating or even hoping for the arrest or prosecution of anybody for "prostitution." - even for scammers like Sean/Mike/Toby. To me, the basic principle is the best way to avoid actual police is to self-police. That's true for escorts, clients, and websites.

 

In Daddy's words: don't panic, know the law, and follow the law.

 

I know you're not saying let's bust them, VHC, you're just saying that Sean/Mike/Toby is making himself vulnerable.

 

Arguably, by pulling "his" ad Rentmen is protecting Sean/Mike/Toby from his own obvious stupidity.

 

My intentional and transparent strategy is to promote self-policing. That way, when the cops lay a finger on Rentboy or Rentmen or anyone else we can all scream bloody murder and defend them based on the fact that Gays are the most honest and nicest group of guys around.

 

After all, my Mom and Dad always taught me the best strategy is simply to tell the truth.

[sincitymix]

This is personal, but I'm putting my escort hat on to give you my view on this.

 

I draw the line at facilitating or even hoping for the arrest or prosecution of anybody for "prostitution." - even for scammers like Sean/Mike/Toby. To me, the basic principle is the best way to avoid actual police is to self-police. That's true for escorts, clients, and websites.

 

In Daddy's words: don't panic, know the law, and follow the law.

 

I know you're not saying let's bust them, VHC, you're just saying that Sean/Mike/Toby is making himself vulnerable.

 

Arguably, by pulling "his" ad Rentmen is protecting Sean/Mike/Toby from his own obvious stupidity.

 

My intentional and transparent strategy is to promote self-policing. That way, when the cops lay a finger on Rentboy or Rentmen or anyone else we can all scream bloody murder and defend them based on the fact that Gays are the most honest and nicest group of guys around.

 

After all, my Mom and Dad always taught me the best strategy is simply to tell the truth.

I really don't know why they are postings ads.. which seems to cost them money, when they don't respond or follow through on the hire. sick thrill?

[+ Gar1eth]

It's time to pull the ad, Rentmen.

 

Seriously, is THIS the crap you want your patrons to put up with? Really?

 

I didn't bother to document it, because in and of itself it was not enough to prove anything. But I texted Sean Oct. 19 to hire him in Portland. He said he was available and would be staying Downtown in the University area. The last text I got from him said "Let me book my hotel now." I did not hear from him again. Similar to the more extensive runaround documented above.

 

Nothing about the interaction I had with him, albeit brief, suggests to me that he is professional, or even real. The one review he has in Rentmen sounds like total bullshit.

 

Steven, are you quoting from some review, or did you want to hire Sean?

 

Gman

[Despardo]

I really don't know why they are postings ads.. which seems to cost them money, when they don't respond or follow through on the hire. sick thrill?

That thought had occurred to me. Very poor business practice. Unless, they are looking for an easy victim, but that is pure speculation on my part. I offered them a chance to make some easy cash with minimal effort, but they weren't interested in pursuing it. Made no attempt to sell themselves or schmooze a potential client, which one would expect if they were legit or running a scam.

[Despardo]

Steven, are you quoting from some review, or did you want to hire Sean?

 

Gman

I believe Steven was "shopping" him (posing as a client to get information.)

[+ Gar1eth]

I have no idea how many actual persons are involved in the Sean/Toby/Mike traveling show and nothing would surprise me. If they work as a team, one person could be manning all the accounts and fielding texts and emails at any given time, only evidence suggests they are not that organized. It would appear that Sean is in fact who he says he is--beyond that, who knows. I have found 3 or 4 reviews for Sean, and some of them are good. The poor reviews complain mainly of runarounds which has been my experience exactly. Whatever Sean is or isn't, he has rotten communication skills, no business sense, and not even a pretext of customer service.

 

My "communications" with Sean have consisted of emailing him through RentMen explaining what I was looking for, getting a short, but encouraging reply (stating I would be welcome to join "them" in Seattle) and asking that I call or text him. When I did exactly that, I got no reply for days, even though I repeated the text message detailing again what I was looking for and copied the text to Toby. Finally, I got a text from Sean saying only that he would contact me when he got to Seattle, which a week later to my surprise, he did. That same day, I got a short text from Toby announcing that there were "3 new guys" available in Seattle.

 

I pondered the situation for a day, then returned Sean's text restating my initial and oft repeated request for an encounter involving all three of them. I again asked what was possible along those lines and inquired as to an appropriate rate. The bit of (vanilla) role play I suggested is something that these dudes (gay or straight) should have been able to provide. I wanted them to "pretend" they were 3 horny straight jocks who wanted to be serviced--a college frat boy fantasy! --something I felt they could pull off without stretching their acting skills. Upshot is, that was 2 days ago, and I never heard another word from any of them. They leave tomorrow for Salt Lake. If the scenario I suggested was not cool with them, they might have said so, or quoted an exorbitant fee in anticipation of easy money, or said they were fully booked, or anything by way of reply. Instead, all I got was silence. The only conclusion here is that I am well to be free of them and should have known better in the first place.

 

 

There used to be about 4 guys who advertised in Las Vegas on M4RN for years. They never changed their main photo for years. (I think I just found three of them -but two or so have changed their main photos to guys who look nothing like their previous main photos). They may have had a few positive reviews, but the reviews were sketchy and not to be trusted. There were also some bad reviews saying they were nothing like their photos. I noticed that they all had a tendency to be 'online' at the same time. It was too bad because if they had been real, they were cute.

 

Gman

[+ stevenkesslar]

Steven, are you quoting from some review, or did you want to hire Sean?

 

Gman

 

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I texted him Oct. 19 and we exchanged several very brief texts. I said I wanted to hire him, he said he was available, and his last text said "Let me book my hotel now." I never heard from him again.

 

I didn't follow up wih him because I had already said on a thread on Sean (the "traveling pack" thread in the Deli) that I planned to contact him from a 503 area code number, which I did. So I figured maybe he blew me off because he'd read this and was suspicious. Presumably he is currently under "investigation" from Rentmen anyway, so presumably his guard is up.

 

Desperado, you said you found 3 to 4 reviews on him. Where? He has one review on Rentmen which as I said on the "traveling pack" thread sounds like total BS. He has no reviews on Daddys I could find. His alter egos, Mike and Toby, have no reviews anywhere.

 

I am going to pursue this series of ads because really my goal is about broad policies, not individual profiles. I'm not into wasting time playing whack-a-mole. Either Rentmen will agree to policies like what Adam Smith posted on Eros, or they won't. In this case, there really is a very simple solution. If Sean, Mike, and Toby can all send selfies with or without IDs proving they are really three different people, as in their pictures, and it is just an amazing coincidence that they travel and use computers like peas in a pod, so be it. I was 99.999 % sure Robbyy was a scammer, and I was right. I am just as certain Sean/Mike/Toby is a scammer.

[Despardo]

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. I texted him Oct. 19 and we exchanged several very brief texts. I said I wanted to hire him, he said he was available, and his last text said "Let me book my hotel now." I never heard from him again.

 

I didn't follow up wih him because I had already said on a thread on Sean (the "traveling pack" thread in the Deli) that I planned to contact him from a 503 area code number, which I did. So I figured maybe he blew me off because he'd read this and was suspicious. Presumably he is currently under "investigation" from Rentmen anyway, so presumably his guard is up.

 

Desperado, you said you found 3 to 4 reviews on him. Where? He has one review on Rentmen which as I said on the "traveling pack" thread sounds like total BS. He has no reviews on Daddys I could find. His alter egos, Mike and Toby, have no reviews anywhere.

 

I am going to pursue this series of ads because really my goal is about broad policies, not individual profiles. I'm not into wasting time playing whack-a-mole. Either Rentmen will agree to policies like what Adam Smith posted on Eros, or they won't. In this case, there really is a very simple solution. If Sean, Mike, and Toby can all send selfies with or without IDs proving they are really three different people, as in their pictures, and it is just an amazing coincidence that they travel and use computers like peas in a pod, so be it. I was 99.999 % sure Robbyy was a scammer, and I was right. I am just as certain Sean/Mike/Toby is a scammer.

Sean has 2 or 3 (I can't remember) reviews on M4RN. You have to go to a separate site to read the reviews, and M4RN doesn't tell you (as they used to) if there are in fact any written reviews--you just have to click on the box and check for yourself. Also on M4RN, Mike Reeves got a short form review on their own system--one star. Reviewer said he did not match his pictures. Obviously M4RN is distancing themselves from the written review site. I have never found the star reviews to be particularly informative unless they are negative, and even then. Anyway, according to their published travel plans, the boys are headed to Salt Lake for a stop over, then on to Denver. I think perhaps Sean also blew me off as a potential liability.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

I agree with the concept of self-policing; keep these guys running around spending themselves dry until they give up. Hell, I might even wait until I'm in a city that I see a known scammer profile in, and hire it on my last night there...and actually have it come to my hotel room WITH ME THERE...where I'll nitpick it, ask to see the arm tattoo that was in the photo...tell them that because they lied in their pictures I'm not into it anymore...and what are they gonna do...PHYSICALLY force me to pay? I'll enjoy that one...or go to the front desk and get me in trouble? Leaving the next morning anyhow.

 

Think it's time to get my burner phone(throw away phone) out, and ask Steven for some phone numbers to call.

 

Another way we could tie these scumbags up, is to post ads on craigslist(for free, as they're not under the adult section) advertising 'LAWN SALE- BEANIE BABIES, BASEBALL CARDS, ANTIQUE FURNITURE- CALL FOR DETAILS AND ADDRESS', with their phone numbers in it. They'd never hear the end of it.

[marylander1940]

Nobody will mess with a strong guy like you but many of us on here are old and fat, sometimes both, and we're likely to get our asses kicked in a confrontation with a younger male. We also have our "reputation" to preserve as "business men" or "family guys" and we wouldn't like to deal with any scandal in our hotel room.

 

 

I agree with the concept of self-policing; keep these guys running around spending themselves dry until they give up. Hell, I might even wait until I'm in a city that I see a known scammer profile in, and hire it on my last night there...and actually have it come to my hotel room WITH ME THERE...where I'll nitpick it, ask to see the arm tattoo that was in the photo...tell them that because they lied in their pictures I'm not into it anymore...and what are they gonna do...PHYSICALLY force me to pay? I'll enjoy that one...or go to the front desk and get me in trouble? Leaving the next morning anyhow.

 

Think it's time to get my burner phone(throw away phone) out, and ask Steven for some phone numbers to call.

 

Another way we could tie these scumbags up, is to post ads on craigslist(for free, as they're not under the adult section) advertising 'LAWN SALE- BEANIE BABIES, BASEBALL CARDS, ANTIQUE FURNITURE- CALL FOR DETAILS AND ADDRESS', with their phone numbers in it. They'd never hear the end of it.

[mike carey]

Nobody will mess with a strong guy like you but many of us on here are old and fat, sometimes both, and we're likely to get our asses kicked in a confrontation with a younger male. We also have our "reputation" to preserve as "business men" or "family guys" and we wouldn't like to deal with any scandal in our hotel room.

I disagree, there are people out there who will mess with anyone in the gay universe, whether they are strong guys like Tristan or not. We need to be ready for them and oppose them. Having strong guys like Tristan being prepared to be part of that fight is important. Damn, why am I not in Connecticut right now?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Nobody will mess with a strong guy like you but many of us on here are old and fat, sometimes both, and we're likely to get our asses kicked in a confrontation with a younger male. We also have our "reputation" to preserve as "business men" or "family guys" and we wouldn't like to deal with any scandal in our hotel room.

 

I disagree, too. Actually, I think we should come up with a "truth corp" of people on this site who are willing to go after scammers. I'll happily be one of them. I hesitate at the idea of putting anything in Tristan's mouth (well, maybe not) ;)but based on what he is saying, to put words in his mouth, he might be, too.

 

I, like Tristan, have thought that I'll actually hire a few scammers and force them to deal with me directly and in person, if its convenient for me, like I'm in the same city as them and I have time. My goal in doing so would be to document to Rentmen and other websites why they need policies to fight this crap, and how they can do it. Having said that, I understand that Marylander and many of you would not want to risk a confrontation with a scammer in person.

 

The reason I disagree with Marylander is that what I assume some scammers actually rely on is that they can set up a personal confrontation with a naive patron of an escort website like Rentmen, and win. It actually makes no sense to me that people would do "business" that way, and essentially work hard to build a bad reputation and then keep changing their identity. But they do.

 

Websites like Daddy's are anathema to them, because it exposes them. This is a good place for us to be planning how to outwit them in a way that is safe and drives Rentmen to adopt policies that make scamming less frequent and less easy.

 

I assume the basic model is you show up and they guilt trip or bully or threaten you into paying some or all of their fee. Or they provide some type of "service" and disappoint you. It makes particular sense in the case of Sean/Mike/Toby since "massage" is part of the "service" offered so they can certainly do enough of that to demand they get paid their fee. The scammer who poses as Sean/Mike/Toby is at least smart enough to say he is "new" at massage - even though all three profile also claim two years of massage experience. That sets up a quick massage and "pay me and leave" business model perfectly. Sean's one fake review on Rentmen actually says somebody paid to be "mesmerized" by him and feed him. How convenient is that for Sean?

 

I think you all have the perfect weapon to fight this: cell phones with texting ability. They are discreet, even moreso if you have figured out how to have discreet additional phone numbers through services like Google voice. All you have to do is target a scammer like Sean/Toby/Mike and ask him for a current selfie taken today proving that he is the guy in the pic. If they refuse to provide it, as it their right, or if they blow you off, as is their right, it gives websites like Rentmen the documentation they need. Rentmen is saying that the hardest part of their job is this kind of documentation. As long as they have reasonable anti-scammer policies, I think we should help them do it.

 

As of right now, there is so much documentation that Sean/Toby/Mike is a scammer that I can't believe their ads are still up. I'm in the middle of a boatload of family issues right now so I'm not focusing on this, but I am getting ready to go to war when I can focus 100 % and if Rentmen seriously is going to play some documentation game about how incredibly hard it is for them to expose scammers and how terribly unfair it is to deprive Sean/Mike/Toby of the opportunity to scam, we are headed into a rough patch here. I appreciate that they suspended a few accounts already and I hope that shows we are on a productive track.

 

Adam Smith posted the article from Eros and he is right. The burden of proof lies on Rentmen to prove they want to provide a quality website that protects reputable escorts that advertise there and patrons who are worried about their reputation and are counting on the fact that they won't be subjected to exactly the kind of bullshit Marylander is afraid of.

 

Rentmen should just do it.

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

I know you're not saying let's bust them, VHC, you're just saying that Sean/Mike/Toby is making himself vulnerable.

Right! I'm glad that was clear. I don't want anyone arrested under our reprehensible anti-soliciting laws.

 

My point is that these men are scammers. Despite public hypocrisy, and the RB raid notwithstanding, many local police have a live-and-let-live attitude toward sex workers. And, as I'm sure you know, some of them are customers. More importantly, they're normally too busy protecting persons and property to hunt down individuals who behave appropriately in public, patronize local businesses, and pay the innkeeper. Guys who don't attract the kind of attention that forces a response are normally ignored.

 

Here, we're not dealing with locals whose satisfied local customers actually like them. This is a group of itinerant scam artists. Such people might escape notice in LA or Seattle, but they will certainly stand out in places like SLC. If they mistreat their customers, somebody will complain. And, since (as Steven has verified) they're rude, and unlikely to deliver the promised services, this seems inevitable. Also, an unhappy customer is more likely to be volatile than one who leaves the room relieved of stress and infused with a warm glow. Someone will get hurt or raise a ruckus -- forcing a police response. These guys may be charged with solicitation, but what will bring the police to their door is that they're scumbags.

[marylander1940]

I disagree, too. Actually, I think we should come up with a "truth corp" of people on this site who are willing to go after scammers. I'll happily be one of them. I hesitate at the idea of putting anything in Tristan's mouth (well, maybe not) ;)but based on what he is saying, to put words in his mouth, he might be, too..

 

I didn't say anything about allowing them go get away with it...

 

 

I, like Tristan, have thought that I'll actually hire a few scammers and force them to deal with me directly and in person, if its convenient for me, like I'm in the same city as them and I have time. My goal in doing so would be to document to Rentmen and other websites why they need policies to fight this crap, and how they can do it. Having said that, I understand that Marylander and many of you would not want to risk a confrontation with a scammer in person..

 

Go ahead do it.

 

The reason I disagree with Marylander is that what I assume some scammers actually rely on is that they can set up a personal confrontation with a naive patron of an escort website like Rentmen, and win. It actually makes no sense to me that people would do "business" that way, and essentially work hard to build a bad reputation and then keep changing their identity. But they do. .

 

We don't disagree, we agree on this.

 

They're scammers, that's their business, maybe they come with friends to your hotel room, maybe their friends are waiting in the scammer's hotel room's closet and they'll jump out as soon as you walk in to get your money.

 

I has happened before.

 

Websites like Daddy's are anathema to them, because it exposes them. This is a good place for us to be planning how to outwit them in a way that is safe and drives Rentmen to adopt policies that make scamming less frequent and less easy..

 

Be my guest, do it! We're on the same page on this...

 

Yet so many frequent reviewers like DCman recently scammed by a man at a hotel near BWI, and silverdollar (scammed by Anton Ferro) keep getting scammed.

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/just-got-scammed-by-back-page-advertiser.107180/

 

Why they do it?

 

Idk, whether they'll just get your money after giving you a hand job or immediately after you walk into their hotel room because it's obvious it's a scam from the beginning.. I don't know, I'm sure they're just getting easy money preying on people, they're not paying their mortgage doing it, but they're less likely to get caught if the victim (us) can't go to the police.

 

For a criminal activity it's safer than breaking into houses or stealing cars I guess.

 

I assume the basic model is you show up and they guilt trip or bully or threaten you into paying some or all of their fee. Or they provide some type of "service" and disappoint you. It makes particular sense in the case of Sean/Mike/Toby since "massage" is part of the "service" offered so they can certainly do enough of that to demand they get paid their fee. The scammer who poses as Sean/Mike/Toby is at least smart enough to say he is "new" at massage - even though all three profile also claim two years of massage experience. That sets up a quick massage and "pay me and leave" business model perfectly. Sean's one fake review on Rentmen actually says somebody paid to be "mesmerized" by him and feed him. How convenient is that for Sean?.

 

Yes, that's what they did to dcman... in the case of silverdollar, the guy (Anton Ferro or whatever his name is now) just gained 40 lbs around his tummy on his way to Silverdollar's hotel... they had sex, he got paid and Mr. Ferro or Ferrari, left within 30 mins of his arrival 300 dollars wealthier.

 

Ain't that better than stealing a purse? I guess so, maybe Anton Ferro could go on a diet and provide they same service while posting current pics, maybe he tried and couldn't do it. Who knows?

 

I think you all have the perfect weapon to fight this: cell phones with texting ability. They are discreet, even moreso if you have figured out how to have discreet additional phone numbers through services like Google voice. All you have to do is target a scammer like Sean/Toby/Mike and ask him for a current selfie taken today proving that he is the guy in the pic. If they refuse to provide it, as it their right, or if they blow you off, as is their right, it gives websites like Rentmen the documentation they need. Rentmen is saying that the hardest part of their job is this kind of documentation. As long as they have reasonable anti-scammer policies, I think we should help them do it..

 

Go ahead, do it.

 

As of right now, there is so much documentation that Sean/Toby/Mike is a scammer that I can't believe their ads are still up. I'm in the middle of a boatload of family issues right now so I'm not focusing on this, but I am getting ready to go to war when I can focus 100 % and if Rentmen seriously is going to play some documentation game about how incredibly hard it is for them to expose scammers and how terribly unfair it is to deprive Sean/Mike/Toby of the opportunity to scam, we are headed into a rough patch here. I appreciate that they suspended a few accounts already and I hope that shows we are on a productive track..

 

Go ahead, call them, write them an email denouncing every single fake ad we see.

 

Let's open a fake ads section in this forum too.

 

Adam Smith posted the article from Eros and he is right. The burden of proof lies on Rentmen to prove they want to provide a quality website that protects reputable escorts that advertise there and patrons who are worried about their reputation and are counting on the fact that they won't be subjected to exactly the kind of bullshit Marylander is afraid of.

 

Rentmen should just do it.

 

Would you recommend dcman and silverdollar to go to the police?

 

They scam because it works, that's why they do it.

 

We agree, we don't disagree for God's sake!

 

Afraid of?

 

Dcman, silverdollar and others got scammed... I don't hire from backpage, I have my regulars and if I'm tempted about someone new when I'm out of town I just meet at the lobby... after google search his pics and cellphone.

[+ stevenkesslar]

We do agree Marylander. I'm glad. I think I made clear I'm not encouraging clients like you to get in dangerous confrontations with scammers in hotel rooms. My goal is to avoid that. And I think its fair to put some of the responsibility for that on Rentmen.

 

I did react to the idea that "respectable" clients have something to lose. Of course you do. We all do. If websites like Rentboy or Rentmen get shut down, we all pay a price. So no matter how "respectable" you think you are my view is we all ought to think through what we can each do to protect all of us, including Rentmen. And Rentmen ought to make that easier, not harder. Sounds to me so far like they are open to that.