Historic...'Call me Caitlyn'

[bigvalboy]

Hi; I might be in the minority but I'm still trying to think why this is such a big thing and in my opinion this is just going to dis - advance any advance made in acceptance of LBGT and forgive me if I've forgotten an alpha letter, advancement. First, I think Ms. Jenner did this for much awaited publicity, maybe wasn't making enough off cereals anymore. Now we need to walk through and see the entire thing. I'm feeling as a gay guy now more than every that I'll be dissed thanks for Caitlyn's antics. Sorry but my view.

 

They're not antics....and you can only be dissed if you allow it. IMHO...good luck!!

[McLeanspider]

It's a good week for black men, a new Kardashian woman is available.

[instudiocity]

ISC, your original post about the $100 million said, specifically,

 

Word on the street is Momma Kardashian/Jenner's ex- signed for $100 million as a part of "I am Cait."

 

The $100 million deal has nothing to do with Kris Jenner appearing on "I am Cait," let alone being a payment for only that. Just wanted to clarify that. That's all.

You misquoted me very well. Thanks for confusing my point. Glad the self-righteous don't inherit the earth.

[+ FreshFluff]

QTR, this one's for you:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/oekklq/brave-new-girl

[+ FreshFluff]

I was talking to a relatively traditional-seeming mid-40s NY man a few nights ago. He had very mixed feelings about the Caitlyn Jenner's transition; the whole cut-off-the-dick thing makes some men very uncomfortable.

 

Then I mentioned a FtM I know who had gone to middle school with me. Now that he completely understood. "If I were me but trapped in a woman's body, I'd do the same thing."

[JDXXX]

Just an FYI ...

 

If you type "Bruce Jenner" into Wikipedia's search engine now, it takes you to the page of Caitlyn Jenner (although the accompanying picture is still "Bruce" as of right now) ... the opening paragraph reads:

 

Caitlyn Jenner (born October 28, 1949), formerly known as Bruce Jenner, is an American former track and field athlete and current television personality.

 

Maybe instead of calling her "Caitlyn", we should call her "Peaches". . Afterall, she does look mighty "tasty" as a woman.

[+ quoththeraven]

I haven't paid much attention to the specifics of the Vanity Fair piece. I'm not going to presume Jenner went through sex reassignment aka bottom surgery unless she said so, and as my daughter pointed out to her grandmother, who was asking similar questions about a genderqueer friend of hers, asking what equipment is hidden by someone else's pants is rude. If you wouldn't feel random strangers are entitled to know that about you, you're not entitled to know it about them, either unless you're about to fuck, in which case it's relevant to how you might be able to go about it.

 

Plenty of trans women, and even more trans men, don't undergo bottom surgery. Some, especially those without health coverage, never transition openly at all. Some take hormones. Some have procedures done on their face, as Jenner has, and top surgery, as Jenner probably also has. Jenner is fortunate enough to have the money and bone structure to epitomize traditional femininity, which can be important and freeing to those who've been at odds with their male bodies and male personas. (To those who thought Jenner made or would make a terrible-looking woman, I say ha!) To others, it looks like going overboard or a form of drag, which is camp and inauthentic. That is, however, one's perspective as viewer. People who are not trans can never completely understand what it's like, just as people who are not gay can never completely understand what that's like or people who are not autistic or otherwise neuroatypical can't completely understand what that's like. But we can make an effort to be accepting and, to the extent possible, empathize.

 

As for questions as to why gay and bisexual men should care about trans folk, it's a matter of uniting everyone hurt by and opposed to heteronormativity. That includes same-sex attracted people like gay men and lesbians; people whose sexual attraction is not defined by gender such as bisexuals and pansexuals; trans, intersex, and gender-variant people/ and it includes asexuals. It could even conceivably include kinksters no matter what their orientation and the alt sexuality crowd (polyamorists, swingers, etc.).

 

One thing they all have in common is a feeling that society stands in the way of their happiness. In that regard, a trans person's process of transitioning is no less fraught than coming out as gay, and it's often more complicated, especially given the medical issues. Another commonality is a feeling that this is the way they are, not the way they chose to be. While I'd be the first to acknowledge that there is a certain amount of gender essentializing and stereotyping going on -- I will be more than happy if I never hear the words "I have a woman's brain" ever again -- it's not as though gay men don't also stereotype and essentialize themselves.

 

Some links:

 

http://belleasera.tumblr.com/post/120849989585/gurl-sandandglass-the-daily-show-june-2 (I think this is essentially the same as the second half of the Daily Show segment that FreshFluff posted, except in the form of a gif essay rather than a video)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rweb/top/caitlyn-jenner-comes-out-and-social-conservatives-take-an-apocalyptic-view/2015/06/04/aa8ccbbe-0ade-11e5-9e39-0db921c47b93_story.html?tid=kindle-app (about conservatives' reactions)

https://medium.com/@bescofield/caitlyn-jenner-is-femme-get-over-it-d6b0f3f0fa47 (about her polished and traditionally feminine presentation in light of other trans women not wanting or being able to present themselves that way)

[+ quoththeraven]

Another link, this time to Tumblr's Transgender Community Creates Vanity Fair Covers of Their Own (Good). Some of the images are of nonbinary folks who might not be considered traditionally trans.

[+ dutchmuch]

http://i0.wp.com/starmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/star-issue-52.jpg?fit=600%2C9999

[+ Truereview]

I know, I can't believe I'm reviving this thread. My reason is two-fold:

 

1. QTR, I miss you & your brain. hurry back. This was an extraordinary post:

I haven't paid much attention to the specifics of the Vanity Fair piece. I'm not going to presume Jenner went through sex reassignment aka bottom surgery unless she said so, and as my daughter pointed out to her grandmother, who was asking similar questions about a genderqueer friend of hers, asking what equipment is hidden by someone else's pants is rude. If you wouldn't feel random strangers are entitled to know that about you, you're not entitled to know it about them, either unless you're about to fuck, in which case it's relevant to how you might be able to go about it.

 

Plenty of trans women, and even more trans men, don't undergo bottom surgery. Some, especially those without health coverage, never transition openly at all. Some take hormones. Some have procedures done on their face, as Jenner has, and top surgery, as Jenner probably also has. Jenner is fortunate enough to have the money and bone structure to epitomize traditional femininity, which can be important and freeing to those who've been at odds with their male bodies and male personas. (To those who thought Jenner made or would make a terrible-looking woman, I say ha!) To others, it looks like going overboard or a form of drag, which is camp and inauthentic. That is, however, one's perspective as viewer. People who are not trans can never completely understand what it's like, just as people who are not gay can never completely understand what that's like or people who are not autistic or otherwise neuroatypical can't completely understand what that's like. But we can make an effort to be accepting and, to the extent possible, empathize.

 

As for questions as to why gay and bisexual men should care about trans folk, it's a matter of uniting everyone hurt by and opposed to heteronormativity. That includes same-sex attracted people like gay men and lesbians; people whose sexual attraction is not defined by gender such as bisexuals and pansexuals; trans, intersex, and gender-variant people/ and it includes asexuals. It could even conceivably include kinksters no matter what their orientation and the alt sexuality crowd (polyamorists, swingers, etc.).

 

One thing they all have in common is a feeling that society stands in the way of their happiness. In that regard, a trans person's process of transitioning is no less fraught than coming out as gay, and it's often more complicated, especially given the medical issues. Another commonality is a feeling that this is the way they are, not the way they chose to be. While I'd be the first to acknowledge that there is a certain amount of gender essentializing and stereotyping going on -- I will be more than happy if I never hear the words "I have a woman's brain" ever again -- it's not as though gay men don't also stereotype and essentialize themselves.

 

Some links:

 

http://belleasera.tumblr.com/post/120849989585/gurl-sandandglass-the-daily-show-june-2 (I think this is essentially the same as the second half of the Daily Show segment that FreshFluff posted, except in the form of a gif essay rather than a video)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rweb/top/caitlyn-jenner-comes-out-and-social-conservatives-take-an-apocalyptic-view/2015/06/04/aa8ccbbe-0ade-11e5-9e39-0db921c47b93_story.html?tid=kindle-app (about conservatives' reactions)

https://medium.com/@bescofield/caitlyn-jenner-is-femme-get-over-it-d6b0f3f0fa47 (about her polished and traditionally feminine presentation in light of other trans women not wanting or being able to present themselves that way)

 

2. I watched season 1 of I Am Cait with a trans-friend. We both thought it was meh. However, we just watched the first 4 episodes of season two, where the girls go on a bus tour across the US, and I've cried my eyes out like a little baby - maybe it was the boozy brunch! It just spoke to me as a gay man. It is at its core about acceptance & happiness. Particularly poignant was episode 204 where Cait & her friends visit a Christian college in Iowa to speak about transgender issues. The dialogue & story-telling was powerful. Anyway, even if you hate the Kardashian antics, some of the background & issues discussed in Cait's show are fascinating food for thought. My friend and I have grown closer bc this tv program brings up some angles she & I had never discussed. I'm liking this show!

[jjkrkwood]

I'm just sooooo TIRED of the WHOLE bunch of them. A lot of attention on a family that does nothing but self-promote....

[+ Truereview]

I'm just sooooo TIRED of the WHOLE bunch of them. A lot of attention on a family that does nothing but self-promote....

Lol, Marge, I can always count on ya...to miss the main point.

 

PS - I do agree with the self promo bit tho

[jjkrkwood]

Lol, Marge, I can always count on ya...to miss the main point.

 

PS - I do agree with the self promo bit tho

 

 

TRU, I NEVER miss the main point, I just choose to ignore it ! For me, what might have been an important and historic cultural event, is now muddied by all the hoopla and self promotion. Cait often slips up and says what she truly means and feels, which is anything but supportive to the cause....

[+ Truereview]

TRU, I NEVER miss the main point, I just choose to ignore it ! For me, what might have been an important and historic cultural event, is now muddied by all the hoopla and self promotion. Cait often slips up and says what she truly means and feels, which is anything but supportive to the cause....

Lol...would ignoring the main point be self promoting too?

 

Although the show is about Cait, it seems to me that the rest of the group is what makes the show worth watching

[bigvalboy]

As we all welcome Caitlyn, let's not forget the violence transgender people face everyday. This article is full of great info/data about the problems trans women who are not white and able to be on a magazine cover encounter.

 

http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/06/01/heres-how-trans-folks-welcomed-caitlyn-jenner-twitterverse?team=social

+1

 

 

...And most transgender people do not have the millions that Cait has to insulate themselves from the bigotry that they face everyday from society whether it is socially, in housing, employment, healthcare, family, friends, co-workers etc.

 

Sophia Banks ‎@sophiaphotos

Yeah it's great the media is paying attention to trans women. But Caitlyn Jenner and the reality of most trans women are worlds apart

1:06 PM - 1 Jun 2015

[jjkrkwood]

Lol...would ignoring the main point be self promoting too?

 

 

I have nothing to promote other than I give awesome BJ's....

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oob5gVZGUB4/U8bd7ei7gfI/AAAAAAABc54/oSabpW6zDws/s1600/teef.jpg

[jjkrkwood]

Just announced, Cait will be joining the cast of Transparent, along with Emmy winning actor Jeffrey Tambor... Shrewd move... align yourself with a hit Show about the Transgendered. Do you think this will make her

more likable by a community whose issues she is basically clueless about ?

[+ Truereview]

Just announced, Cait will be joining the cast of Transparent, along with Emmy winning actor Jeffrey Tambor... Shrewd move... align yourself with a hit Show about the Transgendered. Do you think this will make her

more likable by a community whose issues she is basically clueless about ?

Good tidbit & great question, mon cher. The way I view Cait's journey (and in fact, anyone's journey) is that the minute you are out, it is only the beginning. Meaning, I cut Cait a break bc she doesn't know it all and in season two she is beginning to soak it in. What's so hard is that she is doing it publicly. Yes, of course she could have waited to become an expert on the topic before using her notoriety to bring attention to the issue, but perhaps by then, grabbing the spotlight woulda been harder. I'm intrigued by the idea that someone would submit themselves to the TV spotlight and our harsh judgment and opt in to learn under a microscope. Either she has courage or she is a media hound or she is clueless. I tend to think she has courage. Glass half-full kinda guy here.

 

Do watch episode 204. I thought it was well done,

[jjkrkwood]

Good tidbit & great question, mon cher. The way I view Cait's journey (and in fact, anyone's journey) is that the minute you are out, it is only the beginning. Meaning, I cut Cait a break bc she doesn't know it all and in season two she is beginning to soak it in. What's so hard is that she is doing it publicly. Yes, of course she could have waited to become an expert on the topic before using her notoriety to bring attention to the issue, but perhaps by then, grabbing the spotlight woulda been harder. I'm intrigued by the idea that someone would submit themselves to the TV spotlight and our harsh judgment and opt in to learn under a microscope. Either she has courage or she is a media hound or she is clueless. I tend to think she has courage. Glass half-full kinda guy here.

 

Do watch episode 204. I thought it was well done,

 

Well I am a glass 1/2 empty kinda girl, so I guess we compliment each other ? I was in Cait's corner at the beginning. I thought her move was courageous and would be important for the cause. But I think she lost her way because of her celebrity and the Kardashian connection. I think their self-promoting ways got the best of her. I don't believe she is just starting to learn about the trans community. Perhaps in her new body she is, but I am certain she had done extensive research for years before making her decision and had some strong insight. But I doubt that her beliefs and views will change, and I don't think they are in tune with the person she is now or the lifestyle she is trying to live. She still thinks like a str8 Republican male. The proof IS in the padded bra as they say, and she is losing more Trans supporters than she is gaining. That unfortunately is not progress. .

[bigvalboy]

. She still thinks like a str8 Republican male. The proof IS in the padded bra as they say, and she is losing more Trans supporters than she is gaining. That unfortunately is not progress. .

 

Welcome to Cait's Republican party...

 

[+ Truereview]

Well I am a glass 1/2 empty kinda girl, so I guess we compliment each other ? I was in Cait's corner at the beginning. I thought her move was courageous and would be important for the cause. But I think she lost her way because of her celebrity and the Kardashian connection. I think their self-promoting ways got the best of her. I don't believe she is just starting to learn about the trans community. Perhaps in her new body she is, but I am certain she had done extensive research for years before making her decision and had some strong insight. But I doubt that her beliefs and views will change, and I don't think they are in tune with the person she is now or the lifestyle she is trying to live. She still thinks like a str8 Republican male. The proof IS in the padded bra as they say, and she is losing more Trans supporters than she is gaining. That unfortunately is not progress. .

Lol, the proof is in the padded bra! Hysterical. I'm not looking for Cait to change her republican views. That's just an exercise in futility. I'm seeking to have her use her fame/whatever to create a dialogue. Whether it is the right dialogue or not, it is yet to be determined. Have you watched episode 204? I'd love to hear your glass half empty take on it. Thanks for taking the time to post on this. Smooch.

[jjkrkwood]

Welcome to Cait's Republican party...

 

 

Exactly, and until she truly believes in the cause and equality and moves to fight injustice instead of thinking about her "ratings" , I don't think the community can have that warm & fuzzy feeling for her....

[jjkrkwood]

And now, let's all go take a dip and Cool off !

 

http://www.gaybook.reviews/wpstorage/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Hot-Guys-Skinny-Dipping-4.jpg

 

And for BVB....

 

[+ Truereview]

And now, let's all go take a dip and Cool off !

 

http://www.gaybook.reviews/wpstorage/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Hot-Guys-Skinny-Dipping-4.jpg

Don't forget the fruity drinks!

 

http://tribepk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Crazy-Cool-Summer-Drinks-HD-Wallpapers.jpeg

[bigvalboy]

And now, let's all go take a dip and Cool off !

 

http://www.gaybook.reviews/wpstorage/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Hot-Guys-Skinny-Dipping-4.jpg

 

And for BVB....

 

Or let's go for a drive instead...

 

http://www.lassothemovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Driving-Miss-Daisy-1989.png

Oh come on...you knew that was coming.