Suggestions for an incall twentysomething white top in Los Angeles

[Oliver Lee Martin]

I’m looking for a twentysomething white top in Los Angeles area who can do an incall. Ideally it would be someone who always plays safe and doesn’t do drugs even pot. I’ve narrowed it down to about half a dozen guys who I’ve found via the usual sites (ie Rentboy, Rentmen, Men4RentNow, and even the local Backpage). What other sites would you recommend for my specific type with regards to age and race? Although I’m not opposed to porn stars, I’d definitely have to see face pics. Price is not an issue and I was looking for something in June. Thanks for your input.

[Despardo]

Don't know him, but I sure like his ad.

 

http://rentmen.com/huntingforhunter

[Oliver Lee Martin]

Don't know him, but I sure like his ad.

 

http://rentmen.com/huntingforhunter

 

I've had him in the past. He lived in west LA and cuts hair or wants to cut hair. Hunter looks like his pics but that cock shot is likely not his.

[Despardo]

I've had him in the past. He lived in west LA and cuts hair or wants to cut hair. Hunter looks like his pics but that cock shot is likely not his.

 

He provided 4 different cock shots. They are consistent with each other and very impressive. Not his???

[Oliver Lee Martin]

Here’s a rundown of the guys who I’m considering:

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=955273&iid=515253&scid=9962778&sp=1&pos=3&locid=1378&type=escort

 

Adonis Boy is a very popular go-go boy in West Hollywood

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=437739&iid=492214&scid=9962778&sp=1&pos=7&locid=1378&type=escort

 

Damien Ledger is a bit of a bear/cub/otter

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=956366&iid=515848&scid=9962778&sp=1&pos=9&locid=1378&type=escort

 

Kyle Kash seems like a fun porn star from his Twitter account

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=950444&iid=512226&scid=9962778&sp=2&pos=26&locid=1378&type=escort

 

Zac is another popular underwear model and circuit boy in West Hollywood

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=313583&iid=160507&scid=9962778&sp=2&pos=29&locid=1378&type=escort

 

Evan Lance seems nice but I’m not into his compatriot Spencer Whitman

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=582109&iid=507197&scid=158805837&sp=8&pos=151&locid=1378&type=escort

 

James Daniel’s lack of safe sex, what he’s into, and no reviews has me skeptical

[Oliver Lee Martin]

He provided 4 different cock shots. They are consistent with each other and very impressive. Not his???

 

I've had Hunter. It wasn't memorable or worth repeating. Also his cock shot in the photo previews (not the locked ones) is all over the internet.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Don't hire me. I'm way too old, and way too white. And you, with all respect, sound like an asshole.

 

If this was a posting on Craig's List for rental properties, you'd be banned and maybe busted. This is the language they use at the top of a posting:

 

Discrimination by race/origin, age, family status ('no kids' 'ideal for one'), disability, creed, sexual orientation, or income source is illegal under fair housing law. Describe premises, not people.

 

It would really be hypocritical of me to go into a lecture about objectifying the male body or how there ought to be some law to protect us from something. I make money being a whore. As far as I'm concerned people have the right to be into whatever they want to be into, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody involuntarily. If you prefer to be with young, white guys, great. Just don't say it in a way that makes other people feel like they should buy a time machine, or crawl out of their skin. It's not really that difficult.

 

When somebody in their 20's is sitting across the table from me and says, "You must have looked really hot when you were younger," I can excuse their lack of tact based on their youth and immaturity.

 

I'm guessing you're not in your 20's, so I'm not sure what your excuse for being tactless is.

 

http://girlinprogress.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Grow_Up.jpg

[TruthBTold]

I’m looking for a twentysomething white top in Los Angeles area who can do an incall. Ideally it would be someone who always plays safe and doesn’t do drugs even pot. I’ve narrowed it down to about half a dozen guys who I’ve found via the usual sites (ie Rentboy, Rentmen, Men4RentNow, and even the local Backpage). What other sites would you recommend for my specific type with regards to age and race? Although I’m not opposed to porn stars, I’d definitely have to see face pics. Price is not an issue and I was looking for something in June. Thanks for your input.

 

Customers can express their limitations without any worry of a discrimination charge, the offerers of a service on the other hand cannot do so. I don't see, "I'm looking for a twenty something white top" as a lack of tact.

[caliguy]

Steven, I went back through and reread what the OP had to say. I think ageism is a huge problem in the gay community. Peter Pan syndrome and all or older not shown allot of respect in the gay community. I'm not sure it has much bearing on hiring though anymore then guys being into transexuals or whatever. However, comments like "I like him but I don't like his BF" wasn't really necessary and does make your point valid IMO.

[marylander1940]

Here’s a rundown of the guys who I’m considering:

 

 

 

Damien Ledger is a bit of a bear/cub/otter

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=956366&iid=515848&scid=9962778&sp=1&pos=9&locid=1378&type=escort

 

 

First of all... excellent taste.

 

2nd... Damien Ledger is not a bear nor a cub, look at his body...

 

This is a fit otter.

 

Here’s a rundown of the guys who I’m considering:

 

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=582109&iid=507197&scid=158805837&sp=8&pos=151&locid=1378&type=escort

James Daniel’s lack of safe sex, what he’s into, and no reviews has me skeptical

[kaboom35]

its different for all. I have hooked up with more escorts that are over 40 than under 30. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't meet with a young 20 year old. Man, that sounds hot as i'm typing it.... lol

[Frequentflier]

I'm ok with the OP describing what he prefers. I for sure don't hire guys who are, well, like me

[+ stevenkesslar]

Customers can express their limitations without any worry of a discrimination charge, the offerers of a service on the other hand cannot do so. I don't see, "I'm looking for a twenty something white top" as a lack of tact.

 

Of course you don't, sweetie.

 

The post is a treasure trove of objectifications: white, twentysomething, very popular go-go boy, fun porn star, popular underwear model, circuit boy. Where is the line in terms of tact? The happy reality is because of the fact that I am handsome enough and go to the gym enough, I can and do have sex for free with vgl popular fun go-go boy porn star circuit boys - in fact, I can be paid to have sex with them. Like OP, I don't like the ones who are into drugs. So in some cases I've kicked guys like that out of bed, and they couldn't pay me to have sex with them again. So I'd be a total hypocrite to bitch about objectification or discrimination. There's younger guys who want to have sex with me specifically because they objectify me as a hot Daddy type. If anybody out there wants to objectify me that way, go ahead. Come to Daddy.

 

The one thing I really do find offensive is open discrimination based on race. It just makes you sound, well, out of date. Most escorts, and most escorts in LA, are white. You don't exactly have to hunt to find them. If you want a specific suggestion, you could ask people who the "best hot young tops" in LA are, and you'd probably get a lot more help than what you actually got before I blasted you. You want my recommendations? I think Alec Andrews is a God, with a tender heart. You can edit him out without letting us know you think he's too old. I think JD Daniels is sophisticated and sexy, and the two days he just spent at my house was not enough. You can edit him out without letting us know he's black. And if you don't want to have sex with guys like that - I've had sex with one, and I consider the other a friend - I apologize for calling you an asshole. I should have just said you're a fool. I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

To put the shoe on the other foot, escorts face the same problem. A number of clients have told me they have been rejected by escorts in person because of their weight. That actually argues for escorts who care about weight making clear written discriminations upfront, like "height/weight proportionate." You don't have to call some one "fat" to make the point.

 

In fairness, I have to confess that I do discriminate based on age, in an area where it is actually illegal. In my other life I manage rental housing, and I can't write or even tell a young couple that has never lived together and wants to shack up that I'm going to edit them out because my experience is they generally make the least stable kind of tenants, because they are "young" and immature, and there is simply a higher chance that things are going to end badly. But that is what I do, without saying anything. I actually confessed to one set of married tenants I've known for about 5 years, when they applied, that I was choosing them because they'd owned a home and were in their 70's. The woman laughed and said, "This is the first time I like the fact that I've been discriminated against based on age."

 

The proof of the pudding to me is OP didn't really get the help he wanted. One other person weighed in, and to be blunt even that poster questioned the way he processed information about 4 cock shots. You absolutely have a right to be into twentysomething white tops. You just don't have to make a lot of people who don't fit that description feel bad by rubbing our nose in it.

[Epigonos]

When I started reading Kesslar post I wasn’t exactly sure where he was going and thought he just might be over reacting. However, when he began discussing race – I got it. For my money he is absolutely correct. As clients we, of course, have the absolute right to hire escorts who turn on our hormones. At times I have a tendency to rile against political correctness but I also rile against meanness, impoliteness and insensitivity. In the world we live in today it behooves all of us to be aware of and considerate of the feeling of those around us. Many years ago a very wise person told me that in many situations it is perfectly fine to think what we damn well please as long as we keep our mouths shut.

[instudiocity]

I enjoy Andy North. He's everything I need him to be and he's HOT from the first kiss....

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=393910&scid=159101762&sp=1&pos=0&locid=1378&iid=475796&type=escort

[sincitymix]

Steven, I went back through and reread what the OP had to say. I think ageism is a huge problem in the gay community. Peter Pan syndrome and all or older not shown allot of respect in the gay community. I'm not sure it has much bearing on hiring though anymore then guys being into transexuals or whatever. However, comments like "I like him but I don't like his BF" wasn't really necessary and does make your point valid IMO.

 

You think? I remember when I was 21, tried to hook up with a guy.. his response. "You are to old for me" I was.. wtf? what age limit do you like? his response.. "18 is the max, the younger the better"... from a guy who was in his late 20's to early 30's. sadly this seems to be a trend with a lot of guys.

[+ bigjoey]

Steven,

Where are you? The Daddy's review says "San Francisco" but your profile says "Palm Springs". I will be out your way in a short while and would love to hire you based on your wonderful reviews.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Steven,

Where are you? The Daddy's review says "San Francisco" but your profile says "Palm Springs". I will be out your way in a short while and would love to hire you based on your wonderful reviews.

 

Thanks for asking. I live in Palm Springs now. Moved here in 2012 and love it.

 

I've been escorting only part-time with a bunch of clients I've known for many years, and focusing on other work and personal and family priorities. I also was feeling low on positive energy, so instead of trying to fake it I just took time to recharge.

 

I've been getting several private emails from prospective new clients, plus several out-of-state clients I hadn't seen for years told me at the Palm Springs pool party that they'd like to get together again. I figured I'd let the universe tell me when I was charged up and ready to dive back in, and as anyone paying attention to my profuse verbal diarrhea splattered all over this website in the last month or so might guess, the universe is beckoning.

 

Speaking of objectification, I don't have new pictures, but at some point soon I'll get some. And I'll resurface officially in Palm Springs on this site and maybe come up with my own website as well. Stay tuned. I've actually had a blast just gardening and enjoying my house and a low key life in the desert so I'm still feeling my way through exactly how much I want to pick up my pace. But in addition to whoring here in Palm Springs I'll probably be spending more time in places like Los Angeles and San Diego and San Francisco.

 

I had my Diane Lane moment after Oliver's party when I gushed about how a bunch of you guys (and the Divine Miss Coco) helped turn my home and pool into a proper whore house, and now I would like to take a moment to let my inner Sally Field out - not the one from Sybil, but the one from the Oscars:

 

 

We all have good years and bad years, and I had a few stressful years, and it was mostly because of the economy stupid. So I'm going to repeat something I said on a post about whether dealing with clients fucks up escorts' minds. The funny thing that happened on the way to the fun house is that the people who gave me the most emotional support as I went through my personal "pity party" were mostly clients. If I had to sum up why that was in two words, it's because of age and maturity. There's the CEO who told me, with a wealth of experience and a touch of know-it-all-ism, that I had to learn to compartmentalize better. There's the client who is a corporate trainer and responded to my self-pity by giving me the book Strengths Finders, which - news flash! - actually reminded me that I do have strengths. There's the clients who actually invited my Mom to dinner at their house as she was basically losing her mind, right before she went in the nursing home with a diagnosis of dementia. There's the client who just kept reassuring me and let me whine when I needed to and said, "When a friend is in a boat and it's sinking, you take out a bucket and start helping him bail."

 

Thank you guys, for sticking by me, or sticking it to me, and mostly for really, really liking me. I love you, and I love being a whore.

[+ bigjoey]

I am in my 60's and prefer "mature" older men. Thank you for the explanation and do post when you are ready to sail forth into the escorting world again. From others who have returned after "retirement", it seems to be like bicycle riding: a skill that you do not forget. I hope your positive energy returns and you fully recharge whether you return to escorting or not; you always seemed like a great guy.

 

Not surprised that it is regular clients that are standing by you and helping you. When the chemistry is right, I have discovered that I have formed bonds with some escorts that have continued in to retirement and we have remained close friends; the intimacy we shared went beyond just sex but included emotional bonding as well. I feel fortunate to have gotten to know some escorts on a very personal level besides just the sex. These escorts are amazing men outside the bedroom.

 

Thank you for being one of the best escorts in the past and bringing joy and happiness to so many. Good luck to you in the future no matter what you decide about returning to escorting.

[TruthBTold]

"Don't hire me. I'm way too old, and way too white. And you, with all respect, sound like an asshole."

 

Unfortunately objectification is objectification and in most instances, as everyone seems to recognize, there is a certain amount of it that occurs in the escort/client business. I would say 99% until a client gets to know the escort or vice versa because all either has to go on is the other's looks. I wouldn't be upset as a white escort that a client checked the "black" box when trying to let the world know who he would like to hire. Any more than if he checked the "40's" box, cutting me (a 20 year-old) out of the hiring loop. He isn't trying to judge or insult anyone and certainly not me in particular. Let's not judge him on this particular wording.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Thanks, Joey. Everything you've said is true about the escort world as I've experienced it.

 

Since I've completely taken over this thread, I want to throw in one more thing - a personal story that I find moving, and that ties together some of these threads about objectification, beauty, and the perfect twenty something.

 

I realize I was harsh in what I said in several of the posts above, and I spent much of yesterday thinking about this and talking to people about it.

 

Thanks, Epigonos, for backing me up. On the face of it, it's silly for an escort whose been writing epistles about the word "whore" to get all sensitive about somebody simply writing "twenty something white top." But Epigonos expressed exactly the spirit of what I was trying to say. Like him, I don't like playing PC morality cop, but I also don't like things that are going to hurt people and feel insensitive or mean, even if that's not what was intended.

 

What I think is interesting about Bob Paris is his story gives you a sense of what all this feels like from the perspective of the perfect white twenty something. Including the limitations it puts on you, and that you put on yourself.

 

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2014/bob-paris-legends-of-the-past.jpg

 

Physically, he was a God. Politically, he was a gay hero on the forefront of the same sex marriage fight, a leader way ahead of his time. And yet somehow as all this was happening in the foreground, and everything looked beautiful and perfect, there was this ongoing back story about some part of him being chipped away at.

 

In the interview below Paris talks briefly about how coming out as a gay bodybuilder in the 1980's was financially devastating. He lost 80 % of his business. Even for a God like Bob Paris, having this limitation placed on you - you can be the perfect white twenty something bodybuilder, YOU JUST CAN'T BE GAY! - had to be emotionally crushing.

 

As most of us know Paris paired up with Rod Jackson and they spent years being the perfect "it" couple - in private, in public, in books full of images of their physical perfection. That part of the story is iconic and personal to me. I can't tell you how many times I jacked off to images of one or the other of them. And in a trashy, whore kind of way part of my personal integration was that I could spend a decade living in San Francisco in my whore apartment having loads of sex for free and for money while one of Bob and Rod's iconic beach photos looked down on me from my bedroom wall.

 

http://host.jwcinc.net/10193/duo%20pic2%200001.jpg

 

Here's what Paris says in the interview below, when he was in his late 20's, about why the marriage fight mattered to him:

 

“You fall in love...If you bastardize it and you stick it back in your back pocket where no one can see it, then pretty soon you chip away pieces of that bit by bit, until you have absolutely nothing left.”

 

Some part of that language sounds just silly to me. I mean, come on! It's a little hard to buy the idea that anybody would miss Bob Paris and Rod Jackson walking into the room when they were twenty something white Gods:

 

 

But in his own words, Paris gives you the sense that as much as it is heaven to be a God on a pedestal, with another God right next to you, living on that pedestal can also be hell. What happened between the two of them is probably none of our business. But you get the sense that there were both external pressures and internal pressures. In Paris' own words, they were "very different people" with "very different ideas in our approaches to the world" trying to fit into the perfect frame of the Gods on the pedestal. Except the frame kept cracking, until it finally just broke.

 

Compare the language of limitation Paris used in his 20's to the language Paris uses now, as a mature and married gay man:

 

"Being able to finally make our marriage legal in 2003 [to Brian LeFurgey, his partner of almost 20 years] healed a spot in my soul that had been wounded from the time I was 14 years old and I first realized I was a gay man living in a culture that told me I was less than. Here I was, suddenly being treated as a whole person".

 

Here's his story, encapsulated in a few minutes:

 

 

http://www.queerty.com/photos-former-mr-universe-bob-paris-discusses-life-outside-the-closet-20140225

 

To go back to the question above: is it right or wrong to use words like "white twenty something top?" Everything said in this thread can be summed up in one answer: both. If you don't fit in the frame, if you are black or 50 or "fat," words and images like that can make you feel less than. Oddly, what Paris' life story suggests is that even for the lucky and precious few that fit it the frame, even for the guy who is the God, the internal hell you experience can be just as bad.

 

Objectification is NOT bad, and we don't need to have a big pity party for Bob Paris. He put himself on the pedestal, and I am pretty sure he liked being there, and getting all that recognition. And God was he pretty to look at. One of my clients knew him pretty well, in his body builder days, and he feels that Paris was basically a narcissist then. Arguably, every successful bodybuilder has to be. In one interview right after he won Mr. Universe, Paris explained that in order to be #1, it is psychologically necessary to put yourself in the #1 position before you win. He's probably right. My hunch is it's the same narcissism that led him to think that he had every right to be gay and every right to be married, even in a time when most gay men felt that was pushing the envelope way too far.

 

If that's what narcissism and objectification gets us, the world needs a lot more of it! I'm grateful he pushed to be #1, I'm grateful he pushed to be recognized as gay, and I'm grateful he pushed to be recognized as married.

 

You want to hire a "white twenty something top?" Have at it, and have fun. Except that I think it makes sense to keep the language of limitation in the back of our minds. At the end of the day, I think what me and most people want is what Bob Paris wanted: to be more than, not less than.

 

As a student of Paul Wellstone, I always come back to a simple political question he asked: who benefits, and who pays? As somebody who's escorted for 15 years, I've experienced everything from hot one hour booty calls with strangers to decade-long polyamorous relationships, and I think Bob Paris uses words that aptly describe the parallel question always playing in the background: does this make us more than, or less than?

 

To end this, here's a video of Paris I like, for two reasons. What we see is a God, the perfect white twenty something. Who could not admire this? But notice the words sung in the music playing in the background: How can I ease the pain in my heart? That's a very good question.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdaXrSIc0gY

[+ sync]

Unfortunately objectification is objectification and in most instances, as everyone seems to recognize, there is a certain amount of it that occurs in the escort/client business. I would say 99% until a client gets to know the escort or vice versa because all either has to go on is the other's looks. I wouldn't be upset as a white escort that a client checked the "black" box when trying to let the world know who he would like to hire. Any more than if he checked the "40's" box, cutting me (a 20 year-old) out of the hiring loop. He isn't trying to judge or insult anyone and certainly not me in particular. Let's not judge him on this particular wording.

 

I'm inclined to agree.

 

It could be nothing more than my paranoia, but I have the sensation that everyday conversation has become a minefield of context and connotation. One particular incident that stays in my memory is when the phrase "you people," which used to be an innocuous reference to a gathering of individuals, became a pejorative for disrespect.

 

Apparently, mom is right again̶̶--it's not what you say/write but how you say/write it."

[tsgarp]

"Don't hire me. I'm way too old, and way too white. And you, with all respect, sound like an asshole."

 

Unfortunately objectification is objectification and in most instances, as everyone seems to recognize, there is a certain amount of it that occurs in the escort/client business. I would say 99% until a client gets to know the escort or vice versa because all either has to go on is the other's looks. I wouldn't be upset as a white escort that a client checked the "black" box when trying to let the world know who he would like to hire. Any more than if he checked the "40's" box, cutting me (a 20 year-old) out of the hiring loop. He isn't trying to judge or insult anyone and certainly not me in particular. Let's not judge him on this particular wording.

 

Well said.

[JDXXX]

Thanks, Joey. Everything you've said is true about the escort world as I've experienced it.

 

Since I've completely taken over this thread, I want to throw in one more thing - a personal story that I find moving, and that ties together some of these threads about objectification, beauty, and the perfect twenty something.

 

I realize I was harsh in what I said in several of the posts above, and I spent much of yesterday thinking about this and talking to people about it.

 

Thanks, Epigonos, for backing me up. On the face of it, it's silly for an escort whose been writing epistles about the word "whore" to get all sensitive about somebody simply writing "twenty something white top." But Epigonos expressed exactly the spirit of what I was trying to say. Like him, I don't like playing PC morality cop, but I also don't like things that are going to hurt people and feel insensitive or mean, even if that's not what was intended.

 

What I think is interesting about Bob Paris is his story gives you a sense of what all this feels like from the perspective of the perfect white twenty something. Including the limitations it puts on you, and that you put on yourself.

 

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2014/bob-paris-legends-of-the-past.jpg

 

Physically, he was a God. Politically, he was a gay hero on the forefront of the same sex marriage fight, a leader way ahead of his time. And yet somehow as all this was happening in the foreground, and everything looked beautiful and perfect, there was this ongoing back story about some part of him being chipped away at.

 

In the interview below Paris talks briefly about how coming out as a gay bodybuilder in the 1980's was financially devastating. He lost 80 % of his business. Even for a God like Bob Paris, having this limitation placed on you - you can be the perfect white twenty something bodybuilder, YOU JUST CAN'T BE GAY! - had to be emotionally crushing.

 

As most of us know Paris paired up with Rod Jackson and they spent years being the perfect "it" couple - in private, in public, in books full of images of their physical perfection. That part of the story is iconic and personal to me. I can't tell you how many times I jacked off to images of one or the other of them. And in a trashy, whore kind of way part of my personal integration was that I could spend a decade living in San Francisco in my whore apartment having loads of sex for free and for money while one of Bob and Rod's iconic beach photos looked down on me from my bedroom wall.

 

http://host.jwcinc.net/10193/duo%20pic2%200001.jpg

 

Here's what Paris says in the interview below, when he was in his late 20's, about why the marriage fight mattered to him:

 

“You fall in love...If you bastardize it and you stick it back in your back pocket where no one can see it, then pretty soon you chip away pieces of that bit by bit, until you have absolutely nothing left.”

 

Some part of that language sounds just silly to me. I mean, come on! It's a little hard to buy the idea that anybody would miss Bob Paris and Rod Jackson walking into the room when they were twenty something white Gods:

 

 

But in his own words, Paris gives you the sense that as much as it is heaven to be a God on a pedestal, with another God right next to you, living on that pedestal can also be hell. What happened between the two of them is probably none of our business. But you get the sense that there were both external pressures and internal pressures. In Paris' own words, they were "very different people" with "very different ideas in our approaches to the world" trying to fit into the perfect frame of the Gods on the pedestal. Except the frame kept cracking, until it finally just broke.

 

Compare the language of limitation Paris used in his 20's to the language Paris uses now, as a mature and married gay man:

 

"Being able to finally make our marriage legal in 2003 [to Brian LeFurgey, his partner of almost 20 years] healed a spot in my soul that had been wounded from the time I was 14 years old and I first realized I was a gay man living in a culture that told me I was less than. Here I was, suddenly being treated as a whole person".

 

Here's his story, encapsulated in a few minutes:

 

 

http://www.queerty.com/photos-former-mr-universe-bob-paris-discusses-life-outside-the-closet-20140225

 

To go back to the question above: is it right or wrong to use words like "white twenty something top?" Everything said in this thread can be summed up in one answer: both. If you don't fit in the frame, if you are black or 50 or "fat," words and images like that can make you feel less than. Oddly, what Paris' life story suggests is that even for the lucky and precious few that fit it the frame, even for the guy who is the God, the internal hell you experience can be just as bad.

 

Objectification is NOT bad, and we don't need to have a big pity party for Bob Paris. He put himself on the pedestal, and I am pretty sure he liked being there, and getting all that recognition. And God was he pretty to look at. One of my clients knew him pretty well, in his body builder days, and he feels that Paris was basically a narcissist then. Arguably, every successful bodybuilder has to be. In one interview right after he won Mr. Universe, Paris explained that in order to be #1, it is psychologically necessary to put yourself in the #1 position before you win. He's probably right. My hunch is it's the same narcissism that led him to think that he had every right to be gay and every right to be married, even in a time when most gay men felt that was pushing the envelope way too far.

 

If that's what narcissism and objectification gets us, the world needs a lot more of it! I'm grateful he pushed to be #1, I'm grateful he pushed to be recognized as gay, and I'm grateful he pushed to be recognized as married.

 

You want to hire a "white twenty something top?" Have at it, and have fun. Except that I think it makes sense to keep the language of limitation in the back of our minds. At the end of the day, I think what me and most people want is what Bob Paris wanted: to be more than, not less than.

 

As a student of Paul Wellstone, I always come back to a simple political question he asked: who benefits, and who pays? As somebody who's escorted for 15 years, I've experienced everything from hot one hour booty calls with strangers to decade-long polyamorous relationships, and I think Bob Paris uses words that aptly describe the parallel question always playing in the background: does this make us more than, or less than?

 

To end this, here's a video of Paris I like, for two reasons. What we see is a God, the perfect white twenty something. Who could not admire this? But notice the words sung in the music playing in the background: How can I ease the pain in my heart? That's a very good question.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdaXrSIc0gY

 

BRAVO Steven!!!! Well said, sweetie.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Customers can express their limitations without any worry...

 

Unfortunately objectification is objectification and in most instances, as everyone seems to recognize, there is a certain amount of it that occurs in the escort/client business. I would say 99% until a client gets to know the escort or vice versa because all either has to go on is the other's looks. I wouldn't be upset as a white escort that a client checked the "black" box when trying to let the world know who he would like to hire. Any more than if he checked the "40's" box, cutting me (a 20 year-old) out of the hiring loop. He isn't trying to judge or insult anyone and certainly not me in particular. Let's not judge him on this particular wording.

 

Hey Mr. Truth:

 

I really appreciate you posting these words because they are honest and they get to the heart of the matter. In my view, this is a little like the debate about Selma. There is no black or white, and no right or wrong, and the "eyes on the prize" is on challenging each other and learning from each's others perspectives.

 

I want to pick out a few specific words and phrases you used that go to why I went off. Yes, I'm being picky. Yes, I think this is one where being picky is good because we all - me included - have something to learn about something that really does matter.

 

The first word is "limitation." Your use of that one word is actually what inspired the whole Bob Paris thing above. It got me thinking about how all of us limit ourselves, and how we try to push outside our limits, including the ones that are placed around us. You are exactly right, by checking the "white" box clients are in fact mostly expressing something about their limitations.

 

Should they do so without worry? You decide. I can tell you this. As a practical matter, to be brutally honest, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of white clients who don't want to check the "black" box. Are there black clients who won't check the "white" box? I don't know. How could I, because they wouldn't hire me? I can say this. I've had sex with a lot of black men, and in talking to them my sense is most black men don't have issues about having sex with white men. Mostly, they like it. I assume the same is true when it comes to hiring. There are way more white clients than black clients, and if a lot of white clients don't check the "black" box, for whatever reason, that's going to hurt financially. You do the math. Bob Paris said he lost 80 % of his business when he came out as gay. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of black escorts can just take 80 % of the market right off the top because of their race. To be 100 % clear, I'm not judging that. It is what it is.

 

The world is changing. The 1983 Chicago Mayor's race was all based on the reality, like it or not, that only a small fraction of whites were going to check the "black" box when it came to voting for a political leader. The 2008 and 2012 Presidential elections were built on the reality that a black President can only get elected if he mostly gets white votes. To me, that describes two different nations. I like the one I live in now better, just like I like the fact that I live in a nation where Bob Paris can be openly gay and openly married. But that's just me speaking for myself.

 

Is the client who won't check the "black" box trying to judge or insult anyone? No, I don't think so. Words are not bullets, even more so if they are never spoken. Should the client who won't check the "black" box be judged, like for being racist? I'll check the "no" box on that one as well, just like I'd argue my Dad isn't automatically racist because he didn't vote for Barack Obama, twice. But here's where we differ. Should the client who checks the "white" box publicly, and makes a point of letting everybody know that he really only wants to hire escorts who are white, be bluntly informed that he is out of line? I think so. To me, it's about adding insult to injury. Meaning it is adding verbal insult to financial injury for a lot of black (and Hispanic and Asian) escorts reading his words. Especially because it's completely unnecessary to do it. Whether it was intentional or not, I think that's what the words do: add insult to a form of injury.

 

To compare this to an issue we all probably agree on - discrimination against gays - I think what's happening now in Indiana and Utah provides a good lesson on how to move forward. Where Indiana got in trouble, and where Utah is actually in the lead, revolves around this understanding, to put it in very crass terms: you don't rub our nose in the shit, and we won't rub yours in it. Indiana wanted to put in law language that would allow discrimination against LGBT people on religious grounds without also being mindful that the same language could hurt us in very real ways, because it could be used to fire a gay man or refuse to rent to a lesbian couple. The LDS church is actually pushing a different model: we don't want to have to bake cakes for your weddings, but we'll give you the legal protections you want, and we'll live and let live. The law Utah passed is imperfect, but it is a step in the right direction. It boils down to this: let us keep our biases, and we'll try to keep shut about them. At some point it will just be kind of laughable .... if you don't want to get paid to take pictures at my wedding.....fine, your loss!

 

I'm about to use the names of some other well-regarded escorts who live in or around LA, and I want to make it clear I am NOT speaking for them, but I am using them as examples. My view is that if you don't want to hire Dane Scott, or JD Daniels, or Alec Andrews, or Ryan Thick, or me because we are not in our 20's or not white or not whatever .... great. At the risk of sounding smug, I can say that's also kind of laughable.....fine, your loss! And we don't need or deserve any pity. Just like Bob Paris, we put ourselves on whatever pedestal we think we are on. But you don't have to make a point of advertising it. And in more humble terms, I would argue that you are missing the opportunity to meet some really great people. If I had used similar limitations, and had decided that I wouldn't be a whore, or allow people above a certain age or weight or whatever to hire me, I can tell you with absolute sincerity that I would have paid a very high price for that - not only financially, but emotionally and on every level. We all create our own heaven, and our own hell. It truly is your choice.

 

The whole point of the Bob Paris story to me is that objectification is not mostly bad - I think it's mostly good. Why not want to be a God, and be viewed as a God, and win recognition or be hired because you look like a God? We just have to be very mindful of the limits that we are putting on ourselves, and others. It's not about superficial PC morality policing. It's about lifelong personal integration and fulfillment that goes to the very core of who we are. Bob Paris created his own heaven, and his own hell. The real beauty of Bob Paris, I think, is that he found the pot of gold at the end of the gay rainbow. My guess, not knowing him, is that he learned that being the white twenty something in the frame with the word God under it, even with another God in the frame with him, wasn't all it was cracked up to be. He not only was able to be the perfect white twenty something he was, and develop into the mature middle-aged married gay man he is now, he did it in a way that can inform all of us how to strive to be more than, not less than, as best as we can, and at every point along the way. I find that incredibly inspiring.

 

Again, THANK YOU for your honesty and your willingness to go into this with sincerity. And that's that truth.