uber

rvwnsd · September 25, 2015

...The guy sited in the Huffington Post article made a poor decision to give up his regular job to be an independent driver. Uber or Lyft is not responsible for his failure to make a well informed decision....

The driver made his decision based on information provided by Uber and Lyft. Are they not responsible for the accuracy of the information they provide to prospective drivers?

If you arranged for a ride using Uber and the driver nearly got you killed due to their bad driving, would you hold yourself responsible because you made an ill-informed decision (e.g. not performing your own background check on the driver) or would you hold Uber responsible for sending you a reckless driver?

On a side note, I find it interesting that Uber has shifted from the "sharing" economy to the "on demand" economy.

mike carey · September 25, 2015

From some of the recent comments it appears to me that one of the factors in whether Uber will succeed is the state of the existing taxi industry. If there is an undersupply or if the industry is dysfunctional, Uber will do well. If the existing industry is efficient, Uber's success will not be assured.

Cafés in Australia offer a parallel. Starbucks swept the world opening coffee shops everywhere, and in most places they succeeded. In Australia we had cafés everywhere—I heard it said that every corner shop had an espresso machine and knew how to use it—and we still have them. Starbucks came in and tried to take up its market niche but failed dismally, we liked our cafés and continued to use them, and Starbucks' hundred some stores became fewer than 10. Incidentally, McDoanlds managed to build on our café culture and developed their McCafé concept here. The lesson for Uber is clear: unless they meet a demand that isn't already being met they will not do well.

+ *SundayZip* · September 25, 2015

The driver made his decision based on information provided by Uber and Lyft. Are they not responsible for the accuracy of the information they provide to prospective drivers?

Headlines of Uber ads for drivers say things like "Earn up to $25/hour in fares" or "Earn up to $50K/year in fares". These dollar amounts represent the max that a driver might make in fares which of course is not the same as income. I do think it would be a good practice for Uber to give potential drivers examples of what some drivers in their area actually make, net of expenses. Net income for Uber drivers is all over the place so a potential Uber driver could look at an example of someone who is close to their situation to get a better idea of what they might actually take home. If Uber doesn't already do that, they should.

Edited September 25, 2015 by SundayZip

RussJohnson · September 25, 2015

From some of the recent comments it appears to me that one of the factors in whether Uber will succeed is the state of the existing taxi industry. If there is an undersupply or if the industry is dysfunctional, Uber will do well. If the existing industry is efficient, Uber's success will not be assured.

Cafés in Australia offer a parallel. Starbucks swept the world opening coffee shops everywhere, and in most places they succeeded. In Australia we had cafés everywhere—I heard it said that every corner shop had an espresso machine and knew how to use it—and we still have them. Starbucks came in and tried to take up its market niche but failed dismally, we liked our cafés and continued to use them, and Starbucks' hundred some stores became fewer than 10. Incidentally, McDoanlds managed to build on our café culture and developed their McCafé concept here. The lesson for Uber is clear: unless they meet a demand that isn't already being met they will not do well.

I don't think there is a country, city, place in the world where I have been impressed by the cab company(s). The problem is monopoly. They have had no reason to be better or change. Uber is doing well financially there is no question about that. Their major problems are regulations and "employee" relationships. I think first the cab companies are just going to try to make them go away using those all important political connections if that fails they will try to copy, but for the most part that never works cause you are always one step behind.

Frequentflier · September 26, 2015

1. I don't think it's in Uber's best interests to publicize possible net earnings of drivers as those numbers won't be as enticing as the gross figures and without drivers, well, you know..

2. I've never used Uber.

3. I think Uber filled a need - cleaner vehicles, drivers that are presentable/courteous/customer service driven. None of those qualities are out of the reach of taxi companies if they really wanted market share back.

4. I think Uber drivers should be treated like employees, covered by insurance, FICA taxes paid/withheld, etc.

5. I think it's unfair, as an example, taxi owners in NYC paid millions for medallions (their loans packaged into investments bought by others) because that was the government requirement for the service they wanted to provide and then faced unregulated competition. Should probably be a phase out period. Yes, # 3 issues applies to those taxis.

mike carey · September 26, 2015

Following up from Frequent Flier's comments, some observations based on my reading about and using Sydney taxis, which seem to have some similarities with NYC (although certainly not on scale), and no, I haven't used Uber either.

1. I agree that Uber would not be well served publicising net earnings.

2. Once the reality of what net earnings are sets in, the take-up of Uber by drivers is likely to level out and won't put all the regular taxis out of business.

3. Taxis have the 'hail from the kerb' market to themelves in inner Sydney, and I doubt that Uber has the potential to take much if any of that. I suspect NYC is the same. Maybe not in some other cities.

4. Potentially, Uber's surge pricing will act as a safety valve in busy times, drawing in extra drivers. The tendency for taxis not to turn up in busy times (they get a better fare etc) is a source of profound passenger annoyance. Extra Uber drivers in such times could paradoxically reduce this taxi PR fail.

5. Sydney has a 3 o'clock driver change over (am and pm). No amount of complaints has convinced them to change that (hey passengers, you have no choice, suck it up). See #4, plus, 'Hey we do have a choice, fuck off', may just kick in.

6. While yes, it's unfair to owners of NYC medallions and Sydney taxi licence plates, my sympathy is limited. Most drivers here aren't owners and often get a raw deal from owners. Based on #2 and #3, Uber is not likely to devalue the owners' investments but only to reduce the rate at which it appreciates. Even if it goes down some, welcome to the free market.

7. Yes, Uber needs to be suitably regulated, but that doesn't mean that the existing taxi regulations are the right ones for either taxis or Uber. Instead of asking governments to save them by regulation, taxis should look at why people use Uber (and it ain't just price) and work out what they can do to compete.

8. I follow a cabbie in Guelph ON on twitter. He's a vegan and straight but pretty hot anyway. He tweets what he really thinks about Uber, but also on things his taxi company is doing to make riding easier, like rolling out an app.

9. Taxi companies, it's not all about Uber, it's about you too!

Edited September 26, 2015 by mike carey

mike carey · September 30, 2015

Uber is about to start operating in Canberra at the end of October, and unlike NSW where Uber drivers are having their vehicle registrations cancelled, the Australian Capital Territory government has announced regulations under which Uber will be allowed to operate. Uber drivers will have to undertake police and health checks and vehicles will have to be inspected. At the same time the ACT Government has announced reductions in the annual fees for taxi plates (from $20k to $5k over the next two years).

One critical restriction will be that Uber is banned from using surge pricing during emergencies. During the terrorist siege in Sydney in December last year Uber's automatic surge pricing kicked in when, in fear that there were bombs elsewhere in the CBD, people were trying to get the hell out of there. Uber had significant damage control to do that day, and as I recall they made the rides free.

Uber trips will have to be booked via the app (taxis can park in taxi ranks and can be hailed on the street) and cannot be paid in cash. Regular taxis will also be allowed to use the Uber app to book rides. Suddenly, now that Uber will be legal in the ACT, the insurance industry has come out and said they will launch insurance products for Uber drivers!

Edited September 30, 2015 by mike carey

RussJohnson · September 30, 2015

Uber is about to start operating in Canberra at the end of October, and unlike NSW where Uber drivers are having their vehicle registrations cancelled, the Australian Capital Territory government has announced regulations under which Uber will be allowed to operate. Uber drivers will have to undertake police and health checks and vehicles will have to be inspected. At the same time the ACT Government has announced reductions in the annual fees for taxi plates (from $20k to $5k over the next two years).

One critical restriction will be that Uber is banned from using surge pricing during emergencies. During the terrorist siege in Sydney in December last year Uber's automatic surge pricing kicked in when, in fear that there were bombs elsewhere in the CBD, people were trying to get the hell out of there. Uber had significant damage control to do that day, and as I recall they made the rides free.

Uber trips will have to be booked via the app (taxis can park in taxi ranks and can be hailed on the street) and cannot be paid in cash. Regular taxis will also be allowed to use the Uber app to book rides. Suddenly, now that Uber will be legal in the ACT, the insurance industry has come out and said they will launch insurance products for Uber drivers!

Sounds like they are figuring out ways to make it work and as people realize how important it is they will come around to it, like most things in life.

Got into Fort Lauderdale yesterday, would normally take the bus but it was too late and after the last bus. Had to get a cab, shoved into an old crown vic which for such a big car has no passenger room in the back for a 6'4" guy. He never said a word, I wasn't even sure if the trunk was going to stay closed. Got to my destination, sat in the car waiting for him to run it on the machine, he didn't, had to get out

Me: "Can I use my card?"

Him: "You don't have cash?"

Me:"No"

What Me wanted to say: "That's not what I asked you?, and don't try to that 'it does't work BS'!"

Him: HUGE SIGH

And of course you still have to give them a tip.

BRING BACK UBER!

bigvalboy · October 16, 2015

Update on Uber...Not a fan, but Broward County officials, under pressure from local residents, relaxed regulations on Uber allowing it to operate here legally. Miami-Dade and neighboring counties already allow Uber to operate. Residents who rely on the ride-sharing apt for convenience and financial reasons, put pressure on the county to relax regulations. Well my neighbors and friends are all very pleased with this. The people have spoken.

http://www.wsvn.com/story/30269643/uber-drivers-return-to-broward

Edited October 16, 2015 by bigvalboy

rvwnsd · October 16, 2015

Headlines of Uber ads for drivers say things like "Earn up to $25/hour in fares" or "Earn up to $50K/year in fares". These dollar amounts represent the max that a driver might make in fares which of course is not the same as income. I do think it would be a good practice for Uber to give potential drivers examples of what some drivers in their area actually make, net of expenses. Net income for Uber drivers is all over the place so a potential Uber driver could look at an example of someone who is close to their situation to get a better idea of what they might actually take home. If Uber doesn't already do that, they should.

I agree with you. Until they start doing that, we can't blame the driver for thinking he would make $50K per year as did a previous poster.

A side note: I noticed Lyft is no longer running ads with the smiling software engineer from San Francisco standing next to his Prius. Software engineers in Silicon Valley are NOT driving for Lyft and Uber.

...Uber is doing well financially there is no question about that....

That is not true. In 2013 Uber lost about as much as it generated in revenue. Its revenue is the cut they take from each fare. Here's an article about their financials:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ubers-revenue-profit-and-loss-2015-8

In fairness, most start-ups lose money in their first few years of operation. The article mentions that Uber might be profitable in some cities, such as Chicago, LA, or NYC. However, their losses are increasing and are unsustainable.

...Their major problems are regulations and "employee" relationships. I think first the cab companies are just going to try to make them go away using those all important political connections if that fails they will try to copy, but for the most part that never works cause you are always one step behind.

Their major problem is they do not know how to run a business. They did not think through the potential liability in case of an accident or driver bad behavior (the stories about their dodgy liability insurance practices are well-documented), nor did they contemplate that their drivers would rely on their income claims to make a living. The Uber app is great. It is the transportation execution side that has issues.

Regarding the cramped, out-dated vehicles in use by taxi companies, I, too, am 6'4" tall. Only one of the four Uber cars I have used was big enough to comfortably accommodate me. It was an old, not-well-maintained Dodge Journey (I happen to drive a Journey, albeit a newer and well-maintained model). It was a hot August day in Chicago and the driver was not running the AC. My previous Uber vehicles were a Honda Civic, a small Lexus, and a Jeep that was big on the outside and not big on the inside.

jimboivyo · October 16, 2015

uber is still worth $50+ billion, equal to Facebook

they're smart to remain private. I don't see them taking it public anytime soon.

geoffk · October 16, 2015

just got an email from Uber that they are operating in Broward again.

bigvalboy · October 16, 2015

just got an email from Uber that they are operating in Broward again.

http://www.fortlauderdaledaily.com/sites/default/files/upfront/originalimages/yolo-uber.jpg

Edited October 17, 2015 by bigvalboy

+ *WmClarke* · October 17, 2015

Uber is about to start operating in Canberra at the end of October, and unlike NSW where Uber drivers are having their vehicle registrations cancelled, the Australian Capital Territory government has announced regulations under which Uber will be allowed to operate. Uber drivers will have to undertake police and health checks and vehicles will have to be inspected. At the same time the ACT Government has announced reductions in the annual fees for taxi plates (from $20k to $5k over the next two years).

One critical restriction will be that Uber is banned from using surge pricing during emergencies. During the terrorist siege in Sydney in December last year Uber's automatic surge pricing kicked in when, in fear that there were bombs elsewhere in the CBD, people were trying to get the hell out of there. Uber had significant damage control to do that day, and as I recall they made the rides free.

Uber trips will have to be booked via the app (taxis can park in taxi ranks and can be hailed on the street) and cannot be paid in cash. Regular taxis will also be allowed to use the Uber app to book rides. Suddenly, now that Uber will be legal in the ACT, the insurance industry has come out and said they will launch insurance products for Uber drivers!

Fascinating. Seems like they thought it through. Might be a model for an "everybody (especially customers) wins" philosophy regarding this type of service.

RussJohnson · October 17, 2015

I agree with you. Until they start doing that, we can't blame the driver for thinking he would make $50K per year as did a previous poster.

A side note: I noticed Lyft is no longer running ads with the smiling software engineer from San Francisco standing next to his Prius. Software engineers in Silicon Valley are NOT driving for Lyft and Uber.

That is not true. In 2013 Uber lost about as much as it generated in revenue. Its revenue is the cut they take from each fare. Here's an article about their financials:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ubers-revenue-profit-and-loss-2015-8

In fairness, most start-ups lose money in their first few years of operation. The article mentions that Uber might be profitable in some cities, such as Chicago, LA, or NYC. However, their losses are increasing and are unsustainable.

Their major problem is they do not know how to run a business. They did not think through the potential liability in case of an accident or driver bad behavior (the stories about their dodgy liability insurance practices are well-documented), nor did they contemplate that their drivers would rely on their income claims to make a living. The Uber app is great. It is the transportation execution side that has issues.

Regarding the cramped, out-dated vehicles in use by taxi companies, I, too, am 6'4" tall. Only one of the four Uber cars I have used was big enough to comfortably accommodate me. It was an old, not-well-maintained Dodge Journey (I happen to drive a Journey, albeit a newer and well-maintained model). It was a hot August day in Chicago and the driver was not running the AC. My previous Uber vehicles were a Honda Civic, a small Lexus, and a Jeep that was big on the outside and not big on the inside.

You can sit in the front you know...

bigvalboy · October 17, 2015

http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/17/is-uber-the-root-of-all-evil/?ncid=rss

tanman4u · October 29, 2015

It's automatic. You get in and get out.

I wanted to make sure about this (tipping). I used Uber for the first time last weekend and it was great. I was under the assumption that the tip was automatically added in at 20% as I had directed when I signed up. I read back over everything today it says something like that only applies to "taxis" not UberX, or Black, or whatever their third option is. Can any of you who have used Uber a lot confirm that the tip is added in? Thanks.

mike carey · October 29, 2015

Fascinating. Seems like they thought it through. Might be a model for an "everybody (especially customers) wins" philosophy regarding this type of service.

Uber starts in Canberra today (30 Oct). 280 drivers have been through the compulsory govenment police, health and safety checks. No-one knows how many will be on the road today, of course.

rvwnsd · October 29, 2015

You can sit in the front you know...

I don't fit comfortably in the front or back seats of the Honda Civic (the first driver) and whatever little Lexus the second driver was driving.

RussJohnson · October 29, 2015

I wanted to make sure about this (tipping). I used Uber for the first time last weekend and it was great. I was under the assumption that the tip was automatically added in at 20% as I had directed when I signed up. I read back over everything today it says something like that only applies to "taxis" not UberX, or Black, or whatever their third option is. Can any of you who have used Uber a lot confirm that the tip is added in? Thanks.

You don't have to tip, whether it is "added in" or just part of what is given to the driver is sort of irrelevant from your perspective.

RussJohnson · October 29, 2015

I don't fit comfortably in the front or back seats of the Honda Civic (the first driver) and whatever little Lexus the second driver was driving.

I'm 6'4", I own a VW Beetle and a Honda CR-Z, maybe Uber is just not your thing...

mike carey · November 16, 2015

Another First Dog on the Moon take on something, this time Uber.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/nov/13/first-dog-on-the-moons-handy-guide-to-the-difference-between-uber-and-taxis

+ *Truereview* · November 16, 2015

Another First Dog on the Moon take on something, this time Uber.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/nov/13/first-dog-on-the-moons-handy-guide-to-the-difference-between-uber-and-taxis

Hysterical! Ty for sharing Señor Carey! This should also go on the Friday Funnies thread.

mike carey · November 16, 2015

Hysterical! Ty for sharing Señor Carey! This should also go on the Friday Funnies thread

Thanks True! I love to share what Australian comics have to say!

Zman · November 20, 2015

^^^ I really want a coupon for Mr. Crispy's House of Transfats.

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