What what you have done in this situation?

[Guest ramfan]

Hey Guys, I'm curious how some of you would have handled this situation. I've written a review of this escort (which probably won't be posted for awhile), but it's bothering me, and I was hoping for some different perspectives on what happened and how I should have behaved.

 

Here is the story. I know it's long, but I feel like I have to set the stage...

 

I hired a guy who was traveling through town (I won't say who or where it was right now, since that is more appropriate for the review section), but he is an escort who is reviewed here and even posts from time to time. His reviews are decent, even though I had noticed some hostility to others who disagree with him in his posting. That was a minor red flag (let's call it a pink flag) which I probably should have paid more attention to.

 

I called him a few days in advance and asked him to meet me during my lunch break. He asked if I wanted to make it a two hour session. I told him that I only had an hour and a half available and he said he didn't do partial hour charges, but charged $250 for the 1st hour and $150 for the second. I reluctantly said ok to two hours (my first mistake).

 

When I went to the guy's hotel room on the date we had set, he answered the door, greeted me and walked into the room and sat down at his computer. The only other chair was across the room, so I sat down there. We started some small talk to get to know each other, which went on for about 20 minutes. At this point, I was ready to get something going, but he was making no moves toward me. I finally got up and walked over closer to him and sat on the edge of the bed. Still he made no moves, but just continued to talk. After another 5-10 minutes of this, I reached out and began massaging his foot as we talked, which was resting on the bed beside me. Still no reaction from him. Finally when I moved my hand up toward his knee, he stood up and said he had to go to the bathroom.

 

At this point I was baffled. I have hired quite a few escorts, and I've never been around one which makes zero moves toward physical contact, but just wants to talk. To add to the problem, I'm a closeted and fairly private person and don't really like to share my private life with an escort I've just met. I've also read about escorts who talk away the time and then say there's no time left for any other kind of action. I was beginning to worry that this might happen.

 

When he came back from the bathroom, he stood in front of me as I sat on the edge of the bed, and I put my arms around his waist. But he still did very little except rest his arms on my shoulders. I lifted his shirt and began kissing his torso, and he just stood there stiffly. I basically had to make almost every sexual move: removing clothes, caressing, kissing his body, etc. He did a few perfunctory things like rubbing my back a little, but he was obviously extremely uninterested. He didn't kiss, was barely reciprocal and showed zero enthusiasm for me. Maybe you think I'm some kind of a troll, but I'm a masculine, decent looking 40 year old guy. I'm clean and in good shape and usually viewed as a great client by escorts I'm with. As we laid down on the bed, he did go down on me in a shallow and half-hearted way, but that was about it. Finally, after about 10 minutes of this, I realized the session was going nowhere and jacked myself off to climax while he laid next to me on the bed.

 

He got up and got a towel for me to clean up with and I stayed on the bed. He put his shirt on and lay down next to me and we lay there in silence for probably 2 minutes until I finally began the small talk again. After about 5-10 minutes of chit-chat, I was so frustrated I got up and got dressed, purposely planning to get out of there before the first hour was up.

 

I put on my clothes and he put on his, and I laid $300 on the table and started walking out the door, knowing that this was less than the $400 for two hours we had agreed to, but figuring that I was vastly overpaying him for an hour of his time. He didn't say a word about the fact I was leaving an hour early, and I thought maybe he had forgotten about the two hour part of it.

 

As I walked toward the door, he counted the money and yelled out that I hadn't paid what we'd agreed to. At that point I reached into my pocket and gave him the other $100, but told him I was extremely disappointed in his lack of effort. He acted shocked that I thought he wasn't trying, and then basically "went off" on me, yelling that he HAD tried to get to know me and that it was MY fault for "putting up an emotional wall" and not sharing more with him and asking more about him, and that he'd felt pressure when I sat on the bed, and that I was trying to rush him, and that I came too fast, and he's NOT a sex robot, etc. etc. etc. This lecture went on for at least 5 minutes, with him ranting that I was "shady" for trying to underpay and sneak out and for trying to rush him into bed. (I say lecture because every time I'd try to interject and defend myself he'd say "excuse me," hold up his hand and continue his tirade).

 

I finally just said bye and walked out the door, and he hurled another insult at me as the door closed and I walked down the hall. My blood was boiling. When I got back to my office, he had sent me an email with another 10 paragraphs or so of ranting about how dishonest I was and how hurt he was, including lots and lots of dime-store psychoanalysis of how bad my self image was and how lonely I must be and how that any escort that would have acted differently must be filled with "self-loathing."

 

I was very troubled by this whole situation. I'm a nice, easy-going guy who generally has an excellent time with the escorts I hire. I'm mad that I paid $400 for about 10 minutes of lame sex and 45 minutes of relatively uninteresting conversation. And I'm also annoyed that I've let this guy who I view as a headcase upset me.

 

Is this the way escorting sessions often go, with no physical action until after lots and lots of talk? It's certainly not what I'm used to. Was it just a lack of chemistry, or is this guy just a bad egg? And finally, would you have just paid in full, or would you have tried to be more direct, explained your displeasure and been more upfront about not going through (and paying) for the whole session?

 

I admit I'm not a confrontational person, which probably made me look "shady" when I paid "only" $300 for an hour and didn't explain my dissatisfaction. But I feel sure that even if I had clearly expressed my displeasure and tried to leave early, he would have tried hard to hold me to the full amount.

 

Sorry this is such a novel, but I'm interested to hear from you guys who took time to wade through it and may have opinions either way.

[Boston Guy]

Ramfan:

 

You have asked what we would have done. Assuming that the above is accurate (you know the old saying about two sides to every story...):

 

1) I would have made a positive move toward physical contact as soon as he walked in the door.

 

2) Barring that, I would have asked him why he was staying across the room after about two minutes max.

 

3) Barring that, I would have left after the first 10 minutes without contact, with an explanation but without payment of any kind.

 

4) Barring that, I would have explained that things weren't unfolding as I wanted them to and asked him to choose between (a) acting in a manner acceptable to me or (b) ending the session immediately without payment.

 

I don't think you should have paid him anything at all. I also don't think you should have allowed him to bully you into paying the full fee. Further, I don't think you should have agreed to pay for two hours when you only had 1.5 hours available. If it had been me and he said that he didn't accept partial hour appointments, I would have told him to choose between either (a) a one-hour appointment or (b) a 1.5-hour appointment at a prorated price. He'd get the idea.

 

My question to you is this: during this entire episode, it sounds like you've allowed a (much?) younger guy to bully you and force you down paths you didn't want to go down. Why? Why did you accept this treatment from this person? In the future, you should stand up for what you want and what you feel is right. It's the only way other people will respect you.

 

Finally, what do I think you should do now? I think you should add an addendum to this thread positively identifying the escort. I've met a hell of a lot of escorts in my life and I wouldn't find any of this crap acceptable from any one of them. He deserves to be outed right here, right now.

 

Of course, he'll be right back accusing you of who knows what and you should be ready for that. But, as I said above, if your account is accurate then he deserves to be named right now.

 

BG

[ted]

Actually if his rate was $250 for the first hour I would have given him $250 if the first hour wasn't up. When he started going off the deep end, simply stated " It isn't working for me sorry, your rate is $250 for the first hour, which I paid and I'm not interested in the second, goodby and left immediately. If you didn't have a good time why tip!

[AaronScottDC]

>Hey Guys, I'm curious how some of you would have handled this

>situation. I've written a review of this escort (which

>probably won't be posted for awhile), but it's bothering me,

>and I was hoping for some different perspectives on what

>happened and how I should have behaved.

 

 

Well, I personally can't wait to read the review. And, I particularly can't wait to see if the escort in question chimes in with his side of the story. But, if what you have written is an accurate portrayal of what took place, and I have no reason to think otherwise, then I would most certainly have only paid him his $250 and told him he was lucky to get that.

 

As an escort, there is no way I would ever ask a client to pay for two hours if we only met for one. Sure, I would like the guy to follow through with what we originally agreed upon, but if it just wasn't going well and he wanted to wrap it up after one hour and only pay for that time, then that would be cool with me. I definitely wouldn't launch into some tantrum about it, especially if the guy actually coughed up the extra money for time that wasn't even used.

 

Like I said, I can't wait to read the review......

 

 

Aaron Scott DC

http://www.erados.com/AaronScottDC

http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/aaronscottdc.html

[Guest ramfan]

BG, I appreciate your thorough response. You're right that I shouldn't have let this guy control the situation. Surprisingly, I'm a successful businessman who has no problem being assertive in that arena. However, I've generally found that I have a better time with an escort when we get along well. I guess this is the first time one has really taken advantage of me.

 

As for his name, you can email and I'll tell you who it is. I really don't think it's supposed to be broadcast in this forum. However, one thing that strengthens my resolve is that last week when this thread first hit the forum, another poster (lurker) emailed me to say he had just had a very similar experience a few days before. As we emailed back and forth a couple of times, we realized it was the same escort. I saw him in my location and he saw him the day he got back home to NYC.

 

I've sent in the review, although I'm concerned that it has gotten lost in the HooBoy motherboard disaster. If I don't get a confirmation in the next couple of days, I'll submit one again.

[BuckyXTC]

>As for his name, you can email and I'll tell you who it is. I

>really don't think it's supposed to be broadcast in this

>forum.

 

Ramfan:

 

Having just re-read the Message Center rules, I see nothing that precludes naming such an escort, as long as you're not divulging private or unpublished information like his real name, unpublished phone number, etc. As others have said, each person has their side to tell with any story, and if you identify the escort, you can pretty much assume that he will be sharing his take on the matter. Then we can all sort out who we think is believable and who is not.

 

Frankly, I've never found it very helpful for folks to throw out such a situation if they're not willing to identify the culprit under discussion. I will also admit that there have been a few situations where I did the same thing you've done. In each instance, there were mitigating factors which I identified. In one situation, involving an agency hire (Paramount), the fault was clearly with the agency for misrepresenting the escort, and not the escort himself, who couldn't help the fact that he was other than what the agency owner said he was. In another situation, I had made the mistake of revealing too much private information to an escort I really liked and trusted, only to find out that he was infected with an STD and not telling clients (myself included). I contacted those I knew had used his services in the past, letting them know what I learned. As for naming him publicly, the point became moot as he left escorting for other work.

 

To pay an escort his full fee after he failed to perform in even a minimal way, as seems to be the case from your description, only encourages that escort to use the same modus operandi on other unsuspecting clients. I'm with those who said they would have terminated the session after the first ten minutes, with no payment at all.

If I call a plumber to my home to fix a leaking pipe and he sits around drinking coffee while my basement floods, you can bet I'll show him the door post haste, without a penny. We're talking service here, and if your description is accurate, service wasn't provided. Far too often, clients are less than assertive in stating their expectations, and the unscrupulous escort will be more than happy to exploit that fact. State what you expect up front, and if they agree to meet you but obviously don't intend to even try to meet those expectations, tell them it isn't working and leave with your wallet and dignity intact.

 

I realize this isn't your situation, but I share it for the benefit of others who may read this thread. One of my biggest disappointments with an escort came about not because I didn't know enough about him, but because I grew to know him too well. There is some wisdom in the old saying, "Familiarity breeds contempt". There was one guy I had hired who I would often see at a local club. He was always quite friendly and would come over and chat. I invited him to several social gatherings at my home, and made the mistake of thinking I could still hire him when so inclined. What I soon learned was that because he now considered me an acquaintance, he didn't feel the need to put out much effort when he was on the clock. He was a good escort prior to our becoming friendlier, and rapidly went down hill after the fact. I haven't hired him again since he just went through the motions the last time.

 

Business relationships and friendly relationships can become complex rather quickly. I might invite my attorney to a social gathering, but I wouldn't expect him to give me free legal representation as a result of my hospitality, I also wouldn't expect him to pursue my legal interests with less vigor because he "knew" me, either. In most cases, best to keep business and personal relationships quite separate.

[Guest ramfan]

Since I think my review probably got lost (I'm still going to redo it) and since I've found that others have had similar problems with this guy, I'll go ahead and tell you who it is:

 

He is reviewed as Ryan #3 in NYC and goes by NYCJockStudRyan among other long names.

 

He needs to find a new line of work and better meds.

[Luv2play]

After learning the escort in question was Ryan#3 of NYC, I looked up his reviews. He has five, all positive, some actually of the gushing variety that almost make you think they are phony, except here they are not by first time reviewers which is usually the case. In fact one of the reviwers also posted a review of Aaron Scott, who has commented on this situation.

 

My own view is that if the entire episode occured within the first hour, the $300 was sufficient. The only thing that might be criticized is that Ramfan did not make it clear upfront that that was all he was going to pay for the services rendered. I know the type of situation though where the escort is expecting to be paid the full amount agreed, no matter what he has done to earn it. What Ryan did and said, if true, puts him in the class of hustlerx(

[Boston Guy]

Ryan/Matt

 

Oh, jeez, I didn't realize this guy was still escorting.

 

I looked him up and groaned the minute I saw the picture. He used to go by the name Matt and used the email address [email protected] (which I just checked and believe to be invalid now).

 

I had an encounter with him a couple of years ago. It was one of the worst escort experiences I ever had -- in fact, one of the few "bad" experiences I've ever had with an escort. It puts your own experience in context for me and makes it far more understandable. Don't take it personally: this guy really is a hustler, not someone who deserves to be called an escort.

 

Regards,

BG

[AaronScottDC]

>After learning the escort in question was Ryan#3 of NYC,

 

How do you know it is Ryan #3? And, are you and Boston Guy (see his message above) talking about the same guy? If so, you are correct, it does indeed sound like he is in the hustler catagory.

 

 

Aaron Scott DC

http://www.erados.com/AaronScottDC

http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/aaronscottdc.html

[+ Cash4Trash]

I too have had spent time with Ryan#3. My experience was better than yours or else I would have posted a negative review. That said, nothing you stated seems out of character. He can be verbally abusive,

rude and unpleasant. I don't believe the photo in his ad is him.

He was here an hour and did everything promised but I was happy to see him leave.

[Luv2play]

Well, Because Ramfan told us. I'm only going by what he said. I assumed you made your previous post before knowing who the escort was, but I don't understand this last post of yours in light of the info Ramfan has now given us. As for Boston Guy's assertion it is the same guy as Matt, CollegeDudeNy, I wouldn't have a clue. But if it is the same guy, then one has to wonder about all the positive reviews for Ryan#3. Are they all real or does this guy have a Jekyl and Hyde personality?

[Sparky]

I too was had by Ryan. I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty about what happened, but let's just say it was without a doubt the absolute worst experience I have ever had with anyone, no exceptions. He does not live up to his promises, short changes you on time, he is hostile, uninterested in his clients and verbally abusive. Guys, save yourself a lot of stress and don't waste your time with this loser.

[AaronScottDC]

>Well, Because Ramfan told us. I'm only going by what he said.

>I assumed you made your previous post before knowing who the

>escort was, but I don't understand this last post of yours in

>light of the info Ramfan has now given us. As for Boston Guy's

>assertion it is the same guy as Matt, CollegeDudeNy, I

>wouldn't have a clue. But if it is the same guy, then one has

>to wonder about all the positive reviews for Ryan#3. Are they

>all real or does this guy have a Jekyl and Hyde personality?

 

Ooopps!! I guess that is what I get for not reading all the posts on a particular thread. Now I see where he said who it was.

 

Well, in light of this info, and other people's meetings with Ryan #3, I only have to ask, "Why the hell doesn't he have more negative reviews?" What is this site for, anyway?

 

Aaron Scott DC

http://www.erados.com/AaronScottDC

http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/aaronscottdc.html

[woodlawn]

>Well, in light of this info, and other people's meetings with

>Ryan #3, I only have to ask, "Why the hell doesn't he have

>more negative reviews?" What is this site for, anyway?

 

Good question. In case you haven't noticed, people who write negative reviews often get accused of all sorts of things by escorts who respond in the Reviews section or here in this forum if they discuss the experience here. No doubt some people feel they would prefer not to deal with that on top of having had a bad experience with the escort in person.

 

I recall a thread in which KY TOP accused an escort who has numerous positive reviews here of behavior that was not only unpleasant but outrageous and even dangerous. While many who posted in that thread expressed sympathy for him, others, including the owner of this site, attacked him. I imagine some of the people who read that thread concluded that they would think twice in future before sharing any negative information on an escort with people here.

[Guest]

If so many of you have had unpleasant situation from this escort, why haven't there been any negative reviews, especially to contradict the phony ones? You could have saved the originator of this string mucho $$ and hassle, in addition to many others' troubles. I feel there's almost a moral obligation to expose these abusive hustlers! And I wonder if Aaron would comment as to whether the positive review he received from the 3-time poster who gave Ryan a positive review just might have been a fake one?

[gregkidman]

Ay carumba!

 

I had this guy as well. He actually went through the motions exactly the way I wanted, however it is very, very platonic and very mechanical.

 

I didn't write a review because I thought he was having an 'off-day' but it seems to be more than that.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[LAShowbiz]

>I recall a thread in which KY TOP accused an escort who has

>numerous positive reviews here of behavior that was not only

>unpleasant but outrageous and even dangerous. While many who

>posted in that thread expressed sympathy for him, others,

>including the owner of this site, attacked him. >

 

"outrageous and even dangerous"... that's bold words from someone not directly, physically involved. That escort received quite a bit of slack based on what some people THOUGHT happened...

 

In any case, I don't think people attacked KY Top as much as he attacked the escort. I think people were questioning KY Top. Case in point: Would you call an escort that you accused of "rape" a month later and CHECK HIS AVAILABILITY?? Interesting. I know the former escort who is now retired from the biz.

[KY_TOP]

>Well, in light of this info, and other people's meetings with

>Ryan #3, I only have to ask, "Why the hell doesn't he have

>more negative reviews?" What is this site for, anyway?

 

Very good point. Unfortunately there is a real reluctance by many to write negative reviews. I have noted that if a guy gets one negative review, then others seem more willing to add their negative comments.

 

As a regular reviewer, I feel to be fully credible I must Review both ways. I do really try to chose my words better with negative or borderline reviews.

 

Also, I have found out that many clients will e-mail the Escort if things don't go as planned and many times the Escort can explain or offer to correct the problem on a future meeting. (I have heard this from several guys). In those cases the client gives the Escort the benefit of the doubt, probably rightfully so, and don't write a review. With my worst Escort experience, the Escort and I exchanged e-mails and a phone call for a long period of time. Through that communication we became cordial with each other and agreed that we'd meet for DINNER if he was available when I got his way again. Even though he has since retired from Escorting, and moved, we just recently exchanged e-mails were he says the offer still stands. Sometimes communication, and the Escorts reaction after the fact, can wart off a Review or public negative comments.

[+ Lucky]

There is indeed a backlash at times towards someone who posts negative information about an escort. And I think it does tend to inhibit the flow of such information. In this forum, so many posters second-guess the reviewer that he soon wilts in his willingness to share a negative experience. Some people are an escort's cheerleaders no matter what others have experienced.

So, do we get the quality of reviews we deserve...?

[Guest]

Well, people should get a backbone. I've written negative reviews and been told I had bad breath, etc. If people want to believe an escort over an established reviewer, that's their problem. The escort gets the last word, but that doesn't make him right. I take negative comments by established reviewers very seriously. I can't imagine hiring an escort who's had two negative reviews by established reviewers.