An Appeal to Hooboy

[Doug69]

>Doug 69, if you only knew how many influential people around

>here and asked or demanded for me to ban you. Yet, I stuck up

>for you and your right to spew your beliefs.

 

Hey Hooboy - I appreciate the kind words about my posting as well as my "protection" here, but I'm not really sure what is angering you about what I'm arguing.

 

I'm not making accusations against you or making claims about how this new policy is being applied. Nor am I purporting to make factual claims (as opposed to expressions of opinion) about anything that you're doing, so I don't know how I could be guilty of "spreading half-truths if not flat out lies," as you say.

 

I am opposed to all policies everywhere which purport to allow adults to exchange thoughts and ideas and then suppress what they say on any grounds, including "civility," because no matter how well-intentioned these standards are - and I think you are doing this with good intentions - such policies, in my opinion, always end up being applied unfairly and to the detriment of one's ability to express oneself freely.

 

I'm not trying to convince you to do anything. This is your forum and I'm a big believer in private property rights - you have the absolute right to make whatever rules you want for your forum. This isn't about you personally, and I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just expressing my views about policies such as this.

 

There are lots of ways that members of communities like this deal with participants they don't like. I personally dislike A LOT of members here and hate what they post; there are lot of members who write things that I think are so deadly boring that it defies belief. But I would never dream of asking that they be kicked out; I just skip their posts when I see their name.

 

But many people have thin skins. They think that if anything is said that is even remotely negative about what they write, that's a "vicious personal attack" and the person is being "negative." They also think that any personal attacks they make aren't the same thing as that which they deplore, because their attacks are justified in some way. You see lots of people making exactly that claim in this thread.

 

I just think civility is in the eye of the beholder. And that what is "incivil" is more often the byproduct of who the person likes or whether they agree with what the person is saying. That's true even if the person thinks that they are being fair and objective. And that's why, in my view, these policies always lead to unfair application and punishment of those who express unpopular views, rather than those who act in objective uncivil ways.

 

And I guess I would expect someone who has a forum devoted to the topics which are the focus of this forum to be particularly wary about calls for deletion and suppression based upon vague standards of "decency." After all, if most people had censorship power and the prevailing standard were what "offends decent people," this forum wouldn't be around for very long, since most people would apply that standard negatively to what we do here.

 

As I said, I appreciate the "protection" and your refusal to adhere to the calls of the more "influential" members who apparently can't stand disagreement with what they decree. But I hope that you don't think that this means that I have an obligation never to disagree with what you say or do.

[Trixie]

Oh Douglas, you are incorrigible!

Trix

[Trixie]

It's stardust, my dear... it does cause me to see everything with a bit o' twinkle!

Trix

[AdamSmith]

>Obviously, from the perspective of consequences, it's most

>pernicious when the Government does it, but plenty of people

>find non-Governmental censorship (which you seem to think

>doesn't exist) quite alarming. Just ask all of your

>ideological comrades who applied that term again and again to

>CBS when it decided it didn't wish to be affiliated with that

>misleading Reagans movie.

 

I agree that some fellow travelers' agitation over the Reagan flick was pretty silly. The reason I find it hard to get exercised over what Hoo and the moderators do is this:

 

As long as the control of information is not being exercised by a government or other socially omnipotent institution, such as one or another church in certain times and places, then individuals have vast freedom to go elsewhere in the marketplace of ideas. You, I and others clearly enjoy these exchanges, even (or especially) as irritated as we get with one another. (Blake said, "Damn braces; bless relaxes.") Too heavy a hand by the site owner, and we'll go elsewhere. Like all functioning markets, the thing will be self-regulating.

 

Other than protecting his own interests in a free market, I don't see how (or why) Hoo should do anything differently. He can see his site statistics, and how they correlate with the board content. Since we all presumably want this site to keep going, anything he deems likely to maintain or boost its commercial viability is in our interests too.

[giovoni]

>

>Oh dear - I hope I didn't offend my good friend and fellow

>community member from Denver, who recently announced how much

>he dislikes the F-word. My sincere apologies to him if I did.

>

Truly my panties are knotted in a tight little bunch Thanks for validating my thoughts once again by taking them out of context. I can always count on you.

 

 

Gio in Denver

 

"Never Argue with a Fool---Those around you may not notice the Difference"

[woodlawn]

>Ok, Hooboy, I see your point. It's sad, but I suppose there

>are times when banishment is your only resource. If I were to

>put myself in your position, and have to keep track of all

>that goes on here, I'm not sure at all what I would do.

 

I guess my question is, why does he need to keep track of all that goes on here? There are moderators whose duty it is to prevent people from posting personal information and the like. According to what deej has said in the past, they find themselves having to delete only a tiny percentage of posts for that and other reasons. It hardly sounds like a Herculean task to me.

 

 

>Because people can post relatively anonymously on message

>boards, some take it as license for abusive behaviour. It

>becomes a forum for them to exorcise all the hostility &

>frustruation they feel in Life. They've been the scourge of

>every message board I've ever visited.

 

Those are very dramatic terms to describe what amounts to little more than juvenile name-calling. Other than publishing personal information about each other, I fail to see how any poster here can do any harm to any other. I've been the target of as many attacks as most people, and I seem to have survived. Why can't others?

 

>As you say, this is not about censorship. Censorship is a

>tool used to smother thoughts and beliefs, which obviously run

>freely here.

 

It is about censorship because, as Guptasa correctly pointed out, the calls to squelch posters usually seem directed at those whose opinions on issues involving escorts differ from the opinions of most posters. Unless you think that is just a strange coincidence.

 

 

>But pointless abusive behaviour mustn't be allowed free

>reign.

 

Still waiting for someone to explain why they can't just ignore posters they find unpleasant.

[Doug69]

>Truly my panties are knotted in a tight little bunch

>Thanks for validating my thoughts once again by taking them

>out of context. I can always count on you.

>

>

>Gio in Denver

>

>"Never Argue with a Fool---Those around you may not notice the

>Difference"

 

Gio - Thank you so much for taking the time to compose a response to me. It seems that, with this post, you are saying that I reliably take words out of context and that I am a "fool".

 

This sounds an awful lot like you are attacking the person (me) and not the issue. I'd request that you refrain from this behavior in accordance with the new civility policy (attack the issue, not the person) that you claim to support and to which you claim to adhere. Thank you.

[giovoni]

>Gio - Thank you so much for taking the time to compose a

>response to me. It seems that, with this post, you are saying

>that I reliably take words out of context and that I am a

>"fool".

 

You have twice now and I do consider it to be a reliable habit of yours in many posts (mostly by other posters). Admittedly you've mostly ignored what I've had to say on this board which has been heaven I assure you.

 

As for calling 'you' a fool I did nothing of the sort. That quote is part of my signature though since I added it earlier today I can't blame you for thinking that it was directed at you.

 

 

>This sounds an awful lot like you are attacking the person

>(Me) and not the issue. I'd request that you refrain from

>this behavior in accordance with the new civility policy

>(attack the issue, not the person) that you claim to support

>and to which you claim to adhere.

 

I've never claimed anything of the sort. I didn't know there was any new civility policy anyway and if you would read the first response I put in this thread you might notice that I have serious misgivings about any such policy.

 

Other posters have complimented me for my civility and maturity but I have never claimed to be civil or mature. To do so, I think, would instantly cancel out any truth that the claim could have.

 

Gio in Denver

 

"Never Argue with a Fool---Those around you may not notice the Difference"

[Doug69]

Hello Gio - Please accept my heartfelt thanks for your reply, which I read with great interest and care.

 

>Admittedly

>you've mostly ignored what I've had to say on this board which

>has been heaven I assure you.

 

I'm pretty certain that this is an attack on the person, not the issue, and hence a violation of the new civility policy. But since you claim not to be familiar with that policy (even while participating in lengthy threads with that policy as the topic), I won't report you for this clear violation, because I know you're just getting the hang of this civility thing and that you're really trying.

 

>Other posters have complimented me for my civility and

>maturity but I have never claimed to be civil or mature. To

>do so, I think, would instantly cancel out any truth that the

>claim could have.

 

Isn't exactly the same thing accomplished by touting the compliments you recieve from other people, as you're doing in your post to me?

[phage]

>To me, the bottom line is this. If you have someone making a

>mess in your house, that's hard to ignore; but posters you

>don't like on a message board are very, very easy to ignore.

 

I always agreed with this philosophy and, in my bones, know that it is correct, but it’s not always that easy. I’ve got a pretty thick skin and a reasonable ability to scroll a screen and skip over garbage, but it’s very difficult to skip over the tripe that ad rian and all his many incarnations plaster on this board. And believe me…I’ve tried.

 

His ideology is sickening, but I can understand how a second generation Arab would think the way he does. What else can he do except find someone to blame? However, his disgusting behavior after the Columbia disaster was just more than I could take. He proved himself to be one of most vile human beings I’ve ever had the displeasure of running into in cyberspace or the real world.

 

I have never knowingly (sometimes it takes a day or two after a name change to figure out who he is) responded to him since, but it’s impossible to follow any of the decent conversations here without wading through some of his putrid posts. I can ignore the endless one-on-ones between him and people who choose to engage him, but there are assaults all over the place.

 

I know this is 100% my problem. I shouldn’t let it bother me as much as it does, and I suppose that is why I’m confessing it, but this faceless person on a message board has actually affected my opinion of Arabs in general. I won’t go into what it makes me think and the feelings it dredges up, (it wouldn’t be in the spirit of the new board civility) but it’s not a good thing.

 

In his particular case, (I’ve got no idea what went on with Ethan) the mess that ad rian/axe/whatever makes is so vile and rancid, that even though I know its wrong on an intellectual level, I just can’t help but breath a sigh of relief when his latest incarnation gets zapped.

[giovoni]

Please let me know some way to get money to you. I MUST pay you for etiquette lessons. It's obvious that you are this message center's bright and shining light when it comes to civility and respect and as such when you give me advice I really should be remunerating you for it. On another note though, you are assuming the worst intentions when thinking that I enjoy being ignored by you because of some fault I find with you. It could be that I know you're so far superior to me in intellect (not just civility) that I don't want to be put in my place by someone so clearly out of my league. Perhaps your obviously dashing and dapper personality comes out so clearly in your posts that I'd be intimidated to ever engage you in conversation for fear of turning into a blubbering, stuttering blushing mess.

 

As for losing anything by pointing out that I've been complimented, not really since I said I don't care to be thought of that way. When I do finally lose my temper at someone I don't want to look TOO much like a hypocrite.

 

Gio in Denver

 

"Never Argue with a Fool---Those around you may not notice the Difference"

[taylorky]

OMG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gagggg@#$@^%!*&^<<<<<<<<<<ahhhhh that felt good:+

[Barry]

>OMG>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gagggg@#$@^%!*&^<<<<<<<<<<ahhhhh that

>felt good:+

 

You must have been sucking a really big one Taylor.

[AdamSmith]

>I guess my question is, why does he need to keep track of all

>that goes on here?

 

As I posted elsewhere, is it likely that Hoo would waste much time on anything other than his commercial interests? He can see how site traffic and participation correlate with the ebb and flow of content that he judges to be "stinking up" his forum. Since he is not the United Way, a direct economic argument would seem likeliest to influence his policies.

 

As far as owner/moderator biases of whatever kind, we know what slant to expect from The Washington Post versus The Washington Times. Who would waste breath preaching to one that it become the other?

[HooBoy]

This guy makes me laff.

 

He is SO TYPICIAL of what I see here.

 

He says so many people have been driven away.

 

My friends, I,have the stats of everyone that comes here and more.

 

In the pst 6 months our readership has INCREASED 20 percent.

 

 

But this is what bugs me....someone will read this person's post - a person who quotes no facts, only incorrect opion, but he quotes them as fact

 

And then people belieive him.

 

Provide your source, sir, or go to the AoL chatroooms where I think you might fit in better.

 

<sorry that weas harsh and I do not mean that,."

 

sir, go to where you feel more comfrotable. And while we appreciate your assesment of our aduience, the fact that you know nothing of which you post, please email me and I can direct you to internet measuring systems which, while refuting your post here, but will also educate you on what is really happening.

 

folks, I am behind on today's post, but I have me the most wonderful people in a country outside the usa. And they are SO DIFFERENT FROM AMERICANS. Phisically flawless and mentally, so kind - none of that queeny attitute that we in the USA see.

 

I have to go right now. Nature has a great smile on his face, a 10 inch thick dick, and he is worried about me, kissing me, distacting me, but I wonder howq many guys in New York understand this luxury of really knowing people who have hearts filled with Aloha Spririt.

[+ Lucky]

Aloha Hoo! We hope you are having fun. When ya have a chance ya might wanna try that spellchecker thing!

[HooBoy]

Deal with Daddy about this.

 

This site is losing him money every month

 

The amount he charges me for everything you look at, write, participate in-- he give me a discount -- ONLY BECAUSE WHEN WE FIRST STARTING TAKING ABOUT he thought and I agreed, it would be a wonderful place for like minded people to gather.

 

As most INTERNET bulletin boards like this eventually disappear, we have preserved.

 

I had my someone post my social security number one here.,

 

GOD FORBID I WOULD DELETE THAT - CENSORSHIP!!!!!! Everyone repeat. CENSORSHIP IS RANDOM HERE.

 

Someone posts my home address, an escorts real name, YOUR phone number or email address.

 

Oh the letter I get.......I delete me - CENSORSHIP.

 

Oh, but Hooboy, that guy was only saying how wonderful it was that a man who gave his life for the USA and all the people of the world, just because he hailed from another country or religion, let me say on in Hooey's living room for all to see, may he rot with the worms that he was.

 

Axehabia, I do not want you to rot. I want you to have a happy and wonderful life. I feel soooooooo sorry for you. I know what you do to escorts because I know who you are and I know full well your modus operandi

 

Yet, my friends rally behind you. Good for you. You want me to reveal your entire expose? I have your address. I have your phone number.

 

NEVER IN A ZILLION YEARS COULD ANYONE GET THAT OUT OF ME.

 

And you have the audacity to come here and defaecate on all of us.

 

You have the temerity to write me under different names begging for your sad sack self to be allowed back in.

 

You troll Daddy with new ID's in order to get back in here and spread what I consider TERRORISM.

 

You make Osama Bin Laden look like Santa Clause.

 

you renounce everything you have said, you renounce terrorism

 

you apologize to the Israeli families of the Columbia.

 

You set up a fund for their children.

 

Then and only then will we CONSIDER maybe, on a good day, having you b back as the curmudgeon of our community.

 

I think I drifted off my original thought and I apologize to all those who surely must think this is an exercise in futility because hate can never be anything other.

 

My relay consolation is that Axe and all his names, and the others that have been so offensive around here, is that I know what kind of people they are deep down inside.

 

And isn't that ultimately sad?

[Flower]

RE: Censorship?

 

>>As Trixie would say: "That's my story, and I'm sticking to

>>it".

>

>Your absolutely sure that it's Trixie that says that, right?

 

 

Thanks FAM ;-) Copyright protected :7

[Guest 10cc]

Blah blah blah a bunch of pre-schoolers here. Guys move on to creating interesting posts instead of debating the finer points of HooBoy's absolute right.

[Flower]

Lucky Hoo :-)

 

>Pictures are back! IF I had one, the first pic I would post

>is one of me hugging Hooboy! Thanks!

 

 

http://www.gagirl.com/hugs/hug6.gif

[HooBoy]

Doug,

 

I do not have time to read all you wrote and I apologize. Most folks know my attention span runs about 2 sentences.

 

Even though I may or may not have agreed with you, I always pointed out to the moderators and email writers who take umbrage with you as one who seemed to have his ducks in a row.

 

See, the problem here (and all the INTERNET forums) is that a "goober" can post what ever drivel seeps from his nose. He does so with fact and with no reliable verification.

 

The problem exacerbates when "gooober 2" having a readers digest mentality, will that "goober 1" quote and repeat it with his own interpretation until "goober1" with all his Archie & Vernica comic book pals have now created their own constitution of which all the boys here who present a fact if its fighting its way out a paper bag, latch on to the the dufus twins and suddenly a tragic number of people take AND PRPETUATE through publication here, that what was actually a fabrication is now the truth.

 

BTW, Doug? Just what is is?

 

Sometimes you are no better than them -- fortunately, I do spend a lot of time studying facts, analyszing studies and when you post them accurately, no matter how people twist them or wish they were not true, I undertand.

 

And PLEASE - this is not to imply that I agree in any shape way or from anything you, Doug has has Say.

[KY_TOP]

>This guy makes me laff.

>

>He is SO TYPICIAL of what I see here.

>

>He says so many people have been driven away.

>

>My friends, I,have the stats of everyone that comes here and

>more.

>

>In the pst 6 months our readership has INCREASED 20 percent.

>

 

You might want to re-read his post. He is referencing a comment by me that has NOTHING to do with the TOTAL readership of your site. It referenced people that no longer post in the MESSAGE CENTER only, due to negative comments made to them. I think that it is no surprise to any of us that your Total readership is up.

[Doug69]

>Blah blah blah a bunch of pre-schoolers here. Guys move on to

>creating interesting posts instead of debating the finer

>points of HooBoy's absolute right.

 

Why don't YOU "move on to creating interesting posts" rather than sitting back criticizing the conversations which others are having?

 

I love when people come and scream that the discussions which others are having are boring and dumb, and they then demand that the people doing it stop what they are doing and talk about something more interesting instead. If you don't like this topic and want more interesting ones, why don't you start one?

 

I find many, many conservations here boring. I just skip and ignore them. I would never dream of intruding into those boring conversations to demand that the people having them stop talking about what they want to discuss and start entertaining me by talking about what I want instead.

 

If I thought there were more interesting topics to talk about, I would initiate a discussion of those topics. How come you don't do that? Is it easier to demand that others do it for you?

[HooBoy]

Gosh, gusta....i so wish I could come up with a line in the sand.

 

There are so many things that ocme into consiseration. The person's history.

 

If he is a known truth teller beyond reproach.

 

If his is TROLL -- those will not only be exicised but because we now have new technology, if we want we can zero into their apartment and castrate them....(some truth, some humor - botom line - I prefer to not give the time of day to trolls or healty people on the street begging for money.)

 

G - man, it depends on the context, the hostory or the individual, the manner in which fact are presented...I could go on and on, but I have gone almost one page and I am boring myself, as I am certain you;.

 

If you do go get my gist...email me you phone number and I will call you. If I go require more than one minute, make it a collect call.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Appeal

 

"I just skip and ignore them"

 

Don't trip when you skip!