The escort asks for $$ up front, what do you do?

[bigvalboy]

I liked your post when you edited it. Why the deletion of the second paragraph?

 

LOL....your funny...I wasn't positive I was staying on topic, so I deleted it. OK I'll re-post it, give me a second to remember what I had said.

[+ WilliamM]

An elephant never forgets ...I think it went like you recently had a convo with another escort and he goes through some of the same stuff on tour as what KJ has described' date=' something like that hehe.[/quote']

 

I have been hiring escorts for a long time and posting here for a while. I believe most people here great respect for escorts and realize it's a much more difficult job than one would assume at first glance. And we also know traveling escorts have to juggle many things to make their trips financially successfully...and that applies to those escorts at the very top of the profession. I believe that you have not always been paid what you were promised; it should not have happened ever.

 

Killian, you have posted a number of times in this thread. You are a good advocate for your position, but you are truly getting a significant amount of push back. It's really important for an escort to understand "how to read the room."

 

Several hours ago, you posted that this was your final word on the subject. Yet, you did post again -- to ask bigvalboy to consider posting his draft second paragraph. Fine and understandable. bigbalboy did post his second paragraph.

 

Perhaps now is the time for you to really stop.

[MrMiniver]

I agree MrMiniver, except I think it depends at what point the service is terminated. If the situation is as thickornotatall describes, where 20 minutes in he terminated, then I think he acted correctly. At that point, I don't feel that a fee was earned. The client should terminate the hire the moment they feel that the hire is not as advertised, but it you go through with the service, then decided at the end that things are not as advertised, and your unhappy, I think you owe the fee. You go to the restaurant and eat the steak, you pay the bill. Strictly my opinion.

 

 

I had a very disturbing conversation with a very popular escort the other day. He was recounting to me the number of times that clients had failed to pay him or shorted him at the end of a hire. It seemed to happen most often when he was traveling. He was thinking about asking for a deposit up front for new clients. As Killian mentions it is an on going problem. Clients refusing payment or making excuses why they don't owe the fee at the end of a hire. I certainly don't have any answers here, but the problem goes both ways. While there might not be a solution, I think it is important to realize that escorts are a victim as often as clients are.

 

(Disclaimer: Killian I think that is close to the original....)

 

I don't know of any restaurant that I go to that would make you pay for a meal that you were unhappy with. Of course, there are always exceptions. I think when it comes to services including escorts, there is no cut and dried answer. What if throughout the encounter you express that you want the escort to do this or that or you keep hoping it will get better and it doesn't. Do you still have to pay? I don't know that answer. Luckily, I've never been in that situation. But I don't think there is a one size fits all approach.

[MrMiniver]

I have been hiring escorts for a long time and posting here for a while. I believe most people here great respect for escorts and realize it's a much more difficult job than one would assume at first glance. And we also know traveling escorts have to juggle many things to make their trips financially successfully...and that applies to those escorts at the very top of the profession. I believe that you have not always been paid what you were promised; it should not have happened ever.

 

Killian, you have posted a number of times in this thread. You are a good advocate for your position, but you are truly getting a significant amount of push back. It's really important for an escort to understand "how to read the room."

 

Several hours ago, you posted that this was your final word on the subject. Yet, you did post again -- to ask bigvalboy to consider posting his draft second paragraph. Fine and understandable. bigbalboy did post his second paragraph.

 

Perhaps now is the time for you to really stop.

 

I think this poster has a point. I have never hired KJ, but I will say that if I had been thinking about it as a customer I might be having second thoughts based on his posts here and in the Grindr thread. There is just a whiff of an underlying or even argumentative attitude that I think some thinking about hiring someone would be put off by. I'm not saying this because we have disagreed (I'm a big boy and like a healthy debate). I'm saying this as someone who might be lurking out there thinking "this potential hire seems to not really understand me" which might be something that many are actually thinking.

 

Just my two cents. I think it's important to have escorts participate in these forums, but, from a purely business perspective it is best to know when to back off strong opinions.

[bigvalboy]

I don't know of any restaurant that I go to that would make you pay for a meal that you were unhappy with. Of course, there are always exceptions. I think when it comes to services including escorts, there is no cut and dried answer. What if throughout the encounter you express that you want the escort to do this or that or you keep hoping it will get better and it doesn't. Do you still have to pay? I don't know that answer. Luckily, I've never been in that situation. But I don't think there is a one size fits all approach.

Perhaps MrMiniver, but if I go to a restaurant and don't like the meal, I'll know right off, and I'll tell the waiter. I certainly wouldn't finish the meal and clean my plate, and then tell the waiter that I was unhappy and then I'm not going to pay. The restaurant might comp the meal, but that doesn't make it right. I hope that makes sense.

 

Lastly I think that regardless of how many times Killian has posted here, I was impressed by his demeanor....and I look forward to the up coming link, with he and Derek... but that's just me.

[Lookin]

Well, as my hires are typically 1 - 2 hours, I go to an appointment with $200 - $400 that I'm prepared to lose. I'd prefer to hand it over, usually with an added tip, after the appointment is over. That tells me that there's some kind of a personal connection and a mutual feeling of trust. The time together just seems more pleasant that way.

 

If the escort asks for the money up front, I fork it over, but the meeting starts out with a slight note of distrust. I can understand all the reasons behind the request but the vibe still comes across that either I am not to be trusted or that the escort is not a trusting person. Again, while I understand the variety of reasons behind it, and I do pay up as requested, there's a greater chance that I won't contact the escort for another meeting.

 

Every escort, and every client, has to figure out what works for him or her in the long run. Threads like these can give different viewpoints, but I don't think they'll ever provide a right or a wrong answer. I think, over time, both escorts and clients generally end up with the partners they deserve.

[Newly]

Wow, there's a lot of tension in these posts. I can kind of see both points of view, but most of the clients here are people who are better off and would never think of cheating an escort, although I'm sure there are exceptions. When one poster admitted that he saw some escorts without the funds to pay them everyone else thought that was a horrible thing to do. Asking to get paid up front unfortunately seems kind of tacky - after all, that's what $100 escorts on Grinder are for. I guess the way I see it is that at my workplace we are always extremely customer oriented. That means that we do get ripped off occasionally, but that's the cost of doing business and we'd rather be ripped off by the few bad apples rather than humiliate the vast majority of customers who would never rip us off. Anyhow, I doubt that anyone will change their opinion by anything anyone says, but it would be good to know ahead of time which escorts ask for payment upfront so that they can be avoided if you feel it's tacky. By the way, that will also be fun if the client turns out to be a cop, good luck convincing a judge or jury that your witty conversation in and of itself is worth over $200 an hour.

[MiamiLooker]

Yes, I have. Usually when dealing with late night dates. However after visiting San Fran and having two people short me and have one run out of the date WITHOUT paying, I am seriously considering changing my ON TOUR business practices. Like in past posts, I tend to leave conversation when I've said my peace and provided reasonable explanations and evidentiary support, yes i have it if youd like to see it IE: ( the check someone wrote me against a closed account, without revealing beforehand they were paying me by check.This matter is currently in small claims court...ONCE AGAIN IN SAN FRAN).

 

I hope this post can help forum members understand why escorts on tour may ask for $ upfront in certain circumstances. Much love

 

If feasible, I’d suggest limiting this practice to new clients and clearly state it on your website. Word it with your explanation such that the prospective client is empathetic and understanding of your situation. If the client is aware that there’s an expectation of money at the beginning of the session, don’t you think it’s more likely the client will have the correct amount ready? At the beginning of the session you may choose to count the money, and the client will know this is just routine and not an insult to him; or, you choose not to count it, and the client feels like you’ve already formed a trust between the two of you.

[Bosguy]

Perhaps MrMiniver, but if I go to a restaurant and don't like the meal, I'll know right off, and I'll tell the waiter. I certainly wouldn't finish the meal and clean my plate, and then tell the waiter that I was unhappy and then I'm not going to pay. The restaurant might comp the meal, but that doesn't make it right. I hope that makes sense.

 

Lastly I think that regardless of how many times Killian has posted here, I was impressed by his demeanor....and I look forward to the up coming link, with he and Derek... but that's just me.

 

I'm sure Killian loved your verbal support. I'm sure he and Derek would be thrilled to be hired by you when they are in your area shortly. Great real way to get to know all so much better.

 

Boston Bill

[+ Funguy]

Tho i haven't been hiring long, in the scheme of things and compared to many of the posters, I only hire well-reviewed gentlemen (& only on Daddy's) and check the forum as well. Once I have hired these gems (and every one of them is and is spoken well of - is that a dangling whatever?) I have never paid up front nor have I been asked. When I leave, I give my donation in cash folded over once since I already know how much it will be, incl. a tip should I desire to do so. On a rare occasion when I have grossly exceeded the expected time, I simply ask. NEVER have I then been quoted more than I was originally; in those cases I add it in myself, again folded over. NO ONE has ever opened the bills in front of me to count tho I have had some wonderful thank you texts/emails later.

 

I do realize that maybe I'm in the minority as far as trust is concerned, but what is it, even on the first meet, that leads the escort to trust or not trust the client as far as whether or not payment will be made? If it seems obvious to the escort, why does he take the gig to begin with? (This is not rhetorical but I am asking for real.) If it's a first-time client, again, what makes one trustworthy and another not?

[ewells2007]

Once Killian told me about this thread I had to see what all the fuss and commotion was about.

 

I'd like to say that KJ has never asked me for cash, check or card upfront, however him and I have an amazing relationship and he is currently the only escort I see. Around once a month I even stay with him at his place on a weekend and rent him the entire time.

 

I have to believe that if KJ is asking for payment upfront, it has to be for a good reason. He told me this is only usually the case when he suspects clients may be under the influence of drugs or alcohol. After his recent tour of San Fran, and the events that transpired (which I'm sure has happened to many many many an escort), I'd say that an escort has every right to know that payment will be delivered at the end of a session. It's a real shame that some people are low enough to actually run out of a session and refuse to pay. The same goes for escorts who give horrible service and expect to be paid. Luckily, we have tools like this forum and reviews to weed out the ones who give horrible service.

 

I just wanted to chime in and give my support to KJ, a young man who is truly one of a kind, the reviews do not do him justice. I have a review I'm going to resubmit from our time we spent together in South Beach during Art Basel. Unfortunately I didn't follow the guidelines and submitted it within 6 months of my first one.

[MrMiniver]

Wow, there's a lot of tension in these posts. I can kind of see both points of view, but most of the clients here are people who are better off and would never think of cheating an escort, although I'm sure there are exceptions. When one poster admitted that he saw some escorts without the funds to pay them everyone else thought that was a horrible thing to do. Asking to get paid up front unfortunately seems kind of tacky - after all, that's what $100 escorts on Grinder are for. I guess the way I see it is that at my workplace we are always extremely customer oriented. That means that we do get ripped off occasionally, but that's the cost of doing business and we'd rather be ripped off by the few bad apples rather than humiliate the vast majority of customers who would never rip us off. Anyhow, I doubt that anyone will change their opinion by anything anyone says, but it would be good to know ahead of time which escorts ask for payment upfront so that they can be avoided if you feel it's tacky. By the way, that will also be fun if the client turns out to be a cop, good luck convincing a judge or jury that your witty conversation in and of itself is worth over $200 an hour.

 

Let's be clear that not paying escort when they fail to perform the service you hire them for is not called "cheating the escort. "

[MrMiniver]

Once Killian told me about this thread I had to see what all the fuss and commotion was about.

 

I'd like to say that KJ has never asked me for cash, check or card upfront, however him and I have an amazing relationship and he is currently the only escort I see. Around once a month I even stay with him at his place on a weekend and rent him the entire time.

 

I have to believe that if KJ is asking for payment upfront, it has to be for a good reason. He told me this is only usually the case when he suspects clients may be under the influence of drugs or alcohol. After his recent tour of San Fran, and the events that transpired (which I'm sure has happened to many many many an escort), I'd say that an escort has every right to know that payment will be delivered at the end of a session. It's a real shame that some people are low enough to actually run out of a session and refuse to pay. The same goes for escorts who give horrible service and expect to be paid. Luckily, we have tools like this forum and reviews to weed out the ones who give horrible service.

 

I just wanted to chime in and give my support to KJ, a young man who is truly one of a kind, the reviews do not do him justice. I have a review I'm going to resubmit from our time we spent together in South Beach during Art Basel. Unfortunately I didn't follow the guidelines and submitted it within 6 months of my first one.

 

I'll be frank and say that this is, by far, the most disturbing and unsettling post in this whole thread. I don't really think I need to say why because the perceptive on this forum will be able to figure out exactly what I mean.

 

I'd suggest that these kinds of "fanboy" posts are not particularly helpful to the escorts as they cast suspicions all around.

 

Enough said

[ewells2007]

I'll be frank and say that this is, by far, the most disturbing and unsettling post in this whole thread. I don't really think I need to say why because the perceptive on this forum will be able to figure out exactly what I mean.

 

I'd suggest that these kinds of "fanboy" posts are not particularly helpful to the escorts as they cast suspicions all around.

 

Enough said

 

A big reason I haven't posted much before this, is because these threads tend to go no where (I read many of them often). After this comment, I am going to walk away from it. I think the only "fanboy" part of the entire comment I made was the last paragraph. The rest of it was entirely factual. I'd re-direct people to the reviews he has. As you can see, I'm not the first one to give public praise.

[bomerrang]

 

I'd suggest that these kinds of "fanboy" posts are not particularly helpful to the escorts as they cast suspicions all around.

 

Enough said

 

 

Tell that to Mr. JimBoi!

[MrMiniver]

A big reason I haven't posted much before this, is because these threads tend to go no where (I read many of them often). After this comment, I am going to walk away from it. I think the only "fanboy" part of the entire comment I made was the last paragraph. The rest of it was entirely factual. I'd re-direct people to the reviews he has. As you can see, I'm not the first one to give public praise.

 

I'm afraid I think you rather proved my point

[+ WilliamM]

I'm afraid I think you rather proved my point

 

MrMiniver, you are a master of understatement.

 

Here is a direct question for ewells2007: I understand that the one review was more than six months old. Was there a reason you did not wright another review since you hire Killian James often?

[Newly]

So MrMiniver, what does one call it if not "cheating"? It's an honest question, English is not my native language, I only learned it when I was 18, so sometimes my choice of words is not quite right. I'm wondering if there is a bit of age/cultural thing going on here. I live in the South and unless you're from a certain socioeconomic class gentlemen have a sense of honor and certain things that in other parts of the country such as New York are not seen as being a problem could really be seen as an issue here. I understand that it harms the escort if he isn't paid, but I can't shake the feeling that being asked to pay up front for such an intimate exchange is an affront to a gentleman's obligation to pay for services rendered and that being asked to do so is basically saying that I'm not trustworthy. I know that sounds quaint and old fashion, but it's just the way I feel. My daughter went to college in NYC and I spent a lot of time there. Loved the city and the people, but compared to where I live it seemed somewhat brash and it took me a while to realize that people there weren't being rude or unfriendly, they just used language and tones of speaking that would be unacceptable here. Anyhow, no doubt I'm over thinking this, but this topic does seem to bring up some emotions in people.

[bomerrang]

I understand that it harms the escort if he isn't paid, but I can't shake the feeling that being asked to pay up front for such an intimate exchange is an affront to a gentleman's obligation to pay for services rendered and that being asked to do so is basically saying that I'm not trustworthy. I know that sounds quaint and old fashion, but it's just the way I feel.

 

You hit it Mr. NewToThis. Well said.

 

I was never raised to think of 'defrauding the innkeeper'.

[LookingAround]

I've never been asked for payment before a session, and the escort has never counted the $ in front of me. Just seems tacky. Mr. James seems like a classy guy; it would be consistent with a "classy" demeanor not to ask up front or to count in front of the client. Sure, he can make justifications as to why this is important for him, but it will affect his business, mark my words.

 

For each person who stiffed you by $20, I bet others have given you more in tips. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

[instudiocity]

I've never been asked for payment before a session, and the escort has never counted the $ in front of me. Just seems tacky. Mr. James seems like a classy guy; it would be consistent with a "classy" demeanor not to ask up front or to count in front of the client. Sure, he can make justifications as to why this is important for him, but it will affect his business, mark my words.

 

For each person who stiffed you by $20, I bet others have given you more in tips. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

Excellent Advice. Except I become rather foolish after a good pounding!

[+ FreshFluff]

Excellent Advice. Except I become rather foolish after a good pounding!

 

I thought it was the other way, that guys recover their ability to reason after orgasm.

[maninsoma]

No doubt about there being a trust issue involved when hiring an escort for the first time. If the escort doesn't collect up front, then he risks spending time being intimate with someone and not getting paid (or paid the agreed upon amount) at the end of the session. But if the escort does collect up front, then the client risks handing over a substantial amount of money and perhaps getting little to nothing in return. Either way someone has to accept more of the risk, and my position is that in most areas of business it's the business person providing a service who assumes the risk. There have been comparisons to restaurants in this thread, but I think a more apt comparison would be to any other individual who provides a service. The only professionals I can think of who routinely collect before services are rendered are doctors who collect co-pays when the patients arrive. I know that for large jobs, some professionals will get paid a certain sum up front and then the balance upon completion of a job, but that isn't even always the case for every type of service provider.

 

I frequently have payment in full view when hiring an escort for the first time if he has come to my place, but if I go to his place I don't normally pull the cash out of my pocket to display it in advance. It just seems tacky to me. And the times when someone has counted the cash in front of me as soon as I've handed it over have been one-time hires, regardless of how much I liked the session to that point.

[MrMiniver]

MrMiniver, you are a master of understatement.

 

Here is a direct question for ewells2007: I understand that the one review was more than six months old. Was there a reason you did not wright another review since you hire Killian James often?

 

Thanks, I try

[jawjateck]

Fortunately, that's never happened to me, but if so, he's done me a favor. I can call it quits, save cash, avoid an unsatisfying encounter, and move on to another stud.