Craigslist????

[Michael Wayne]

In my latest thread about CANCELLATION RATES Joey Bryant opened up a HUGE can of worms about Craigslist. I think what he said was some of the truest and most honest things that i have heard in my 4 years on daddys. He said so much that i could not really comment in that thread and i thought what he said deserves a thread of its' own because there is a real sea change in the biz right now. Essentially to paraphrase what he said it is this: new potential clients are going AWAY from the 3 main sites (rb, m4rn, rm) in droves. Many guys dont even know the big three exist because they only advertise to gay guys. There are no ads from the 3 sites targeting MARRIED, closeted clients. In my career those married guys are over 50% of the biz! For some who do know the sites exist they have stopped checking them because it is the same few advertisers over a nd over again with pics that are ten years old! So the new clients go to craigslist which i haved dubbed, "the walmart of the adult biz." Now, in my boredom over the last 3 weeks as i have dealt with 15 major cancellations and only actually had 7 clients from the big three sites( even though it is peak season in south florida) i did a little experiment. I ran some CL ads essentially pointing guys to the big three sites. The response was OVERWHELMING!!!!!!!!!! My boring days got booked full really fast and the comments from the clients were EXACTLY what Joey BRyant said!!!! "I did not know those 3 sites existed." " I did know they existed but the pics are old and the guys are the same all the time." "I am not able to go to those sites because i am married. I can safely visit CL." Now i know the owners of Rentmen are on this forum and i know that they actually care and make efforts to get the word out abotu their site. BUT.......... can we say the same about the owners of rentboy or men4rentnow. It seems that their only target audience is the gay crowd in the major cities but that is not where MOST new clients are. Wake up and discover the real world boys! There is also a big price war going on and CL is behind it. many of the cancellations are a product of this. A guy books with a leading pro from the 3 big sites but he browses CL and finds a hot 24 year old with a huge cock and a ripped body offering his services for half of the going rate on the big three so of course the client is curious and cost conscious and books the cheaper guy. Thus the 200-300$ a hour guys are left home alone on a saturday night. This is the state of the biz right now................ http://www.rentboy.com/magicmikey http://www.rentmen.com/mikeyusatop

[Decatur Guy]

I don't doubt what you're saying about Craiglist, but these potential clients are playing with fire, though. I think there's a much greater chance of a police sting or a bad experience hiring blindly off Craigslist. I sometimes put up ads on CL, and almost always, I get a response from some young man asking me if I'm generous. I don't answer. It would be too risky.

 

Where CL can hurt business for an escort in regards to me is when I've met a cool guy for free off CL. Once I set an appointment with an escort, I don't break it. But I might look first to my fuck buddies or a new guy on CL before calling up the escort.

[MikeCruiseNYC]

Ditto on the vice sting potential, I've heard tell of a few too many stories involving CL and getting thrown in the slammer. Plus it seems like an awful lot of work to get a client what with the amount of chat back and forth that CL requires. In the immortal words of my buddy Ace while at Ziegfield's Secrets, "...these boyz are working way too hard..."

[bigvalboy]

I don't disagree with what you guys are saying about CL and all the dangers. I'm definitely not a CL guy, and have never hired from there, I just can't bring myself to do it, but I can tell you how many of my friends, who used to hire escorts through the major sites, now cruise the CL ads all the time. There are some disappointments, but there are some real gems out there also. And I don't think that they experience any more disappointments than the rest of the clients out there who hire escorts off of the regular sites.

 

They just love CL. Maybe it is the same reason/mentality so many guys also cruise grindr. I was at a club with a forum member, having a great time with the dancers, and he suddenly started cruising grindr. Hooked up with a guy, and shot out the door. I've got to admit, the guy was gorgeous. The whole thing was over in an hour or so, and we re-linked up. Many of the guys on CL are cheaper, and it seems less involved than trying to schedule an escort from a more traditional site. I really don't have an answer as to why, I just know that it is happening more and more, at least with the friends that I know.

[JoeyBryant]

Ditto on the vice sting potential, I've heard tell of a few too many stories involving CL and getting thrown in the slammer. Plus it seems like an awful lot of work to get a client what with the amount of chat back and forth that CL requires. In the immortal words of my buddy Ace while at Ziegfield's Secrets, "...these boyz are working way too hard..."

 

Well in New York, everyone gets thrown in the slammer. In my spare time, I like reading some of the lawsuits that have been filed and won against the NYPD. Stop and Frisk, brutality, etc. They pay out more settlements than any other city in the country. But anyway.

 

But, as for the rest of what you've mentioned...yes there is a lot of back and forth that is required, often for far less $$ what you'd get on the traditional sites. I was reading 1 email where I exchanged over 50 emails with for 2 months before he finally booked me.

 

The good news is that craigslist can only offer so much. Rest assured, you will not find clients who want (to pay) for more than an hour. You won't get the long evenings or overnights or vacations. And that's why I continue to advertise on the main sites. Craigslist clients don't understand that we can't live off $100/hr every few weeks. They really don't care either because they are concerned about their bottom-line, not mine. Some of the responses on craigslist can just be downright degrading and low-ball nonsense. But in certain markets (e.g. Denver), price is an issue no matter what you charge or where you charge it. These guys expect full-service 1 hour for $100. A few weeks ago, I gave my (reasonable) incall rate to a guy who answered my ad. I wasn't even asking $200. He faffed about saying he needed to think about it. Texted him back an hour later, he found someone cheaper. I've even seen some of the trash bags these guys pick up...which leads me to feel some people don't give a fuck about the product, they just want the price to be right (or free).

 

However, I've never had to use craigslist in places like DC, San Francisco, and cities up near the north pole. Those places get enough traffic to the escort ads as it is. It's kind of made me realize that competition can in some ways be a good thing. Places that don't have any or very few ads don't end up being much better than a place that has dozens. Assuming that place has enough people with the buying power to do it.

[Nvr2Thick]

Which Craigslist section do you post under? Men seeking Men? Casual Encounters - M4M? Services - Skilled Trade? For Sale - Heavy Equip?

 

I used to love shopping in the CL Services - Adult section. It reminds me of when all we had was the print ads in the SF-BAR, Frontiers, Advocate Classifieds. With lower cost and easier entry there were some interesting guys that might not choose to escort if they had to take out a more high profile ad. I'm fairly good at screening, and I often found low-key newbies or short term guys who were pretty amazing.

 

I don't like guys advertising in the personals Men Seeking Men or Casual Encounters - M4M sections. I can spend a lot of time in those sections looking for a hookup. Finding out that one of these guys is really escorting pisses me off. Even the ads that drop in the "generous" or "gen" or di$creetly slip in a dollar sign don't seem like fair play to me, and I usually flag them. Those guys in my city are usually the worst of the worst hustlers, or maybe sting operations, with pics that don't stand up to a Google Image search.

 

Joey once complained about what he categorized to be escorts that lowball, but I love the sources that allow the non-professional escort to advertise. To me it's like the difference between fine cuisine at a 5-star restaurant and comfort food at a good diner.

[JoeyBryant]

I don't like guys advertising in the personals Men Seeking Men or Casual Encounters - M4M sections. I can spend a lot of time in those sections looking for a hookup. Finding out that one of these guys is really escorting pisses me off.

 

Joey once complained about what he categorized to be escorts that lowball, but I love the sources that allow the non-professional escort to advertise. To me it's like the difference between fine cuisine at a 5-star restaurant and comfort food at a good diner.

 

Why would it piss you off? It shouldn't. As long as they let you know up front (on the 1st or 2nd email), it shouldn't be an issue. Now, I can understand if you guys chat, exchange numbers, meet and then after having sex he demands money...or does so upon arrival.

 

I've kind of changed my stance about the whole low-ball thing. For one, my local market seems to have pulled away from that a bit. There seems to be a bit more $250-300 guys on the scene. Most of those low-baller guys have disappeared anyway. But, at the same time...I understand it may not always be up to them. From being out in the trenches, I see that some of this is forced. Compelled, so to speak.

 

I have a client who claims to have a hard time wanting to see me anymore, because I've mentioned I'm looking to relocate soon. That, he "has a hard time enjoying a guy, and then he disappear". I told him, if you look around, non of the guys in this area from 3 years are still advertising today. I'm the only one. There's a completely new crew now. Most of them have either quit or moved to other cities. It seemed about a year and a half ago, the market here took a nose-dive. I had a client who told me a female friend of his, used to make good money...but now, it's "what can you do for $50." I told the other client, most of the successful guys either travel all the time, or move every year or 2. Or they are working a good ass job, and are charging top dollar because they are good with just a handful of clients a month and not more. So to expect a guy to always be around forever, is not realistic in every case.

[Nvr2Thick]

Why would it piss you off? It shouldn't. As long as they let you know up front (on the 1st or 2nd email), it shouldn't be an issue. Now, I can understand if you guys chat, exchange numbers, meet and then after having sex he demands money...or does so upon arrival.

 

If it pisses me off it's because it should piss me off. To me it's kind of like in the 80's when we would meet guys in the bars, especially in big cities such as LA NY or SF, and come to realize that you weren't really having a good night meeting a hot guy; he was a hustler. I think that you shouldn't hook in places where guys are meeting socially. I sometimes do pretty well on these sites when it comes to finding the DL and lowkey guys, and it's a big disappointment to reel one in and find that he's got a price tag. As I said, what I often find is some of the big-time hustlers and guys with fake pics, so that plays into my reaction. I'm not, however, naive enough to expect that it won't happen; and its easy to self-police. I also understand that there aren't a lot of options now that CL has pulled the adult services section. That's why I like Backpage's male escort section. Maybe it doesn't work well for you as an escort, but for me provides a place where men can honestly and quickly and cheaply advertise as escorts.

 

I've kind of changed my stance about the whole low-ball thing. For one, my local market seems to have pulled away from that a bit. There seems to be a bit more $250-300 guys on the scene. Most of those low-baller guys have disappeared anyway. But, at the same time...I understand it may not always be up to them. From being out in the trenches, I see that some of this is forced. Compelled, so to speak.

 

Back in the pre-Internet days there were a lot of guys who would come and go on Advocate Classifieds who were providing a much more "real" experience to me. They were often just oversexed guys who liked the attention. I think that those guys exist, but the market has evolved through the online sites and the nature of social media. The norm now seems to be a more professional escort with an adopted persona. Some guys aren't charging lower prices because the competition or rules of demand have forced them to; they just have a more relaxed view of escorting. These guys may truly enjoys no-strings hookups and may realize that they've got attributes that other men will pay for. Maybe that becomes part of the thrill for them. The act of having sex for money hasn't evolved in their minds to the point of being marketed. Sometimes the money is secondary.

 

All of these things can lead to a much more real feeling for me as a client. Because the rate isn't as high I don't feel like I've had to break the bank in order to get some great sex -- which helps the self-esteem side of this. Meeting a less professionally involved guy can feel more like sex with another man than like an escort encounter. Even a messy apartment and an unmade bed gives the impression of a spontaneous hookup, and can impart a feeling of connection or intimacy. Don't get me wrong, I love hiring from the a-list; where everything is what you expected up front and is perfect (and that's what you pay for). Still it can be amazing to discover that some low-key guy asking $150 unwraps to be come a handsome, attractive, hung, skilled, passionate and fully-engaged fucker -- for about an hour or so.

[Michael Wayne]

Thanks for the responses...however....i was HOPING for more because this is the REAL world RIGHT now. Decatur: you brought up a great point about HOOKING UP as a first choice before hiring. I feel that is a pretty common practice and it goes well with BIG VAL who spoke of GRINDR. I feel that grinder, scruff, adam etc. are giving guys SO MANY GOOD OPTIONS. i am hearing that even many of the hottest guys on the apps tend to hook up with some of the so called ," non hot guys." If the gorgeous boys on the apps are giving it away for free then perhaps guys who would likely be clients are chasing the gods for free. I thing the negative here is that they would often also be shot down and rejected. Also on the apps the is NO guarantee of discretion! A hook up my promise it but there is no professional responsibility to guarantee it. nvr2thick: i used backpage for a couple years in new orleans and i found that while my female escort friends did really well with it the male section produced very few actual bookings. I got more female inquires and couples than from males. on flagging the cl ads and which section to run the ads in: What i do is run just a legal clean personal ad with my pics that clearly and specificly states my exact physical type i am looking for. I also clearly say, "If u r not my physical type there are OTHER DISCREET ways we can meet...please ask." Then i simply point them to my big three ad sites......I have NEVER had anyone upset about this and i have never been flagged. mike Cruise: I have never had a problem with working too HARD! LOL! I actually enjoy the chase. police???? they could easily use the big three sites just as well. It isnt as if they dont know the big three exist. We just have to exercise common sense and be careful. We dont seel sex on here....we sell time. One will never be busted if that is clear. Big Val: your response simply confirmed the point in the op. more thought would be appreciated. Joey: is the product as good???? I am hearing that yes it is. it is like catching a future big league player at single A minor league ball. Derek Jeter would have been worth the price of a ticket in AA ball just as he is at Yankee Stadium. But at AA the ticket costs 10 bucks instead of 50 at yankee stadium. http://www.rentboy.com/magicmikey

[bigvalboy]

Thanks for the responses...however....i was HOPING for more because this is the REAL world RIGHT now. Decatur: you brought up a great point about HOOKING UP as a first choice before hiring. I feel that is a pretty common practice and it goes well with BIG VAL who spoke of GRINDR. I feel that grinder, scruff, adam etc. are giving guys SO MANY GOOD OPTIONS. i am hearing that even many of the hottest guys on the apps tend to hook up with some of the so called ," non hot guys." If the gorgeous boys on the apps are giving it away for free then perhaps guys who would likely be clients are chasing the gods for free. I thing the negative here is that they would often also be shot down and rejected. Also on the apps the is NO guarantee of discretion! A hook up my promise it but there is no professional responsibility to guarantee it. nvr2thick: i used backpage for a couple years in new orleans and i found that while my female escort friends did really well with it the male section produced very few actual bookings. I got more female inquires and couples than from males. on flagging the cl ads and which section to run the ads in: What i do is run just a legal clean personal ad with my pics that clearly and specificly states my exact physical type i am looking for. I also clearly say, "If u r not my physical type there are OTHER DISCREET ways we can meet...please ask." Then i simply point them to my big three ad sites......I have NEVER had anyone upset about this and i have never been flagged. mike Cruise: I have never had a problem with working too HARD! LOL! I actually enjoy the chase. police???? they could easily use the big three sites just as well. It isnt as if they dont know the big three exist. We just have to exercise common sense and be careful. We dont seel sex on here....we sell time. One will never be busted if that is clear. Big Val: your response simply confirmed the point in the op. more thought would be appreciated. Joey: is the product as good???? I am hearing that yes it is. it is like catching a future big league player at single A minor league ball. Derek Jeter would have been worth the price of a ticket in AA ball just as he is at Yankee Stadium. But at AA the ticket costs 10 bucks instead of 50 at yankee stadium. http://www.rentboy.com/magicmikey

 

Hey Mikey, I appreciate your interest in this subject and I can tell that in many respects what is happening on Grindr, CL,BP and some of the other social media sites, and how guys are hiring differently does impact your business, however I can't really offer too much more than what I said initially since I do not visit those sites. I will expand on what my friends and I have discussed. I have several friends who do and I have been with forum members who frequent those sites religiously. As far as Grindr is concerned, the hookups are free, and that seems to be a real plus for the friends of mine that go there, in addition, they have texted me pictures of some of there hookups off Grindr, and many of these guys are just stunning. From what has been discussed in conversation about this, it seems to me that there are a lot of guys on Grindr/CL etc. that are there for a short time, and looking to just pay some bills, get through a semester of college, experiment a little or what have you. The attraction seems to be that very often you are finding that diamond in the rough, the guy that is willing, for very little money, to have some fun off the clock.

 

Now are there disappointments, absolutely, more so it seems off CL than off Grindr, which seems to be more about immediate satisfaction, but remember, these same guys that are cruising BP and CL looking to hire, hired the traditional way for years, and often times, as we have heard the stories on here, were just as disappointed with the professionals. So it is hard for me to argue against what they are doing, and you have to admit, just a quick glance at a CL section will reveal a wide variety of guys to hookup with. It's all a crap shoot, which is why I won't go there, but their success rate seems to be about the same as anyone else's.

 

Social media, the Internet, hookup sites like BP,CL,Grindr,Jocks, all changed how we find that sexual connection, and let's be honest, we all are not looking for the same thing. My friend who finds a guy on Girndr, and leaves a club to go hook up with him for an hour, 2 blocks away and then comes back and just continues his evening, is clearly on a different page than I am.

 

Lastly, I think your analogy of Derek Jeter is probably very accurate. At least from what I've seen it is. Like I said before, there is that fascination about finding the 'diamond in the rough'....Me personally, and I am only speaking for myself here, I agree with much of what you say Mikey about all of this. I don't want the drama in hiring anymore. I am very very selective these days, and only hire those guys that will totally 'float my boat'...I don't hire as often, but when I do, I want to know exactly what I'm getting into, which is why I often, prefer hiring these dancers. I can spend as much time as I want talking to them face to face, over several weeks if I choose, and then do a private to see if they will be fun behind closed doors, and then and only then do I have to make a decision if I want it to go further.

 

I hear your frustration and Joey's frustration in how the industry has changed. I don't have an answer as to how you go about adapting your business to accomodate this new social media and hookup sites. I remember fondly when the owners of "The Numbers" (a famous escort bar in LA) were selling the business. They were an icon in the community. It was all that many of us knew. I just didn't know how I was going to do my hiring, but then I slowly became involved in the Internet, and the rest is histroy. Is it better than it was back in the day? Absolutely....but it took me awhile to get on board. Maybe you just have to adjust how you deal with all of this.

 

I just came back from the store and ran into a dancer from the BW, we sat out at his car for a good half hour just chatting. I'm buying him lunch soon, and then he's coming over this weekend. The cost to me? pennies compared to an escort off a professional site. So Mikey, many of us have changed the way we hire. While I may not be on Grindr or CL, my hiring has changed also. Thanks so much for your interest and the input you have provided here. Good luck to you and as always I wish you the very best. Cheers, BVB

[JoeyBryant]

Because the rate isn't as high I don't feel like I've had to break the bank in order to get some great sex -- which helps the self-esteem side of this. Meeting a less professionally involved guy can feel more like sex with another man than like an escort encounter. Even a messy apartment and an unmade bed gives the impression of a spontaneous hookup, and can impart a feeling of connection or intimacy. Don't get me wrong, I love hiring from the a-list; where everything is what you expected up front and is perfect (and that's what you pay for). Still it can be amazing to discover that some low-key guy asking $150 unwraps to be come a handsome, attractive, hung, skilled, passionate and fully-engaged fucker -- for about an hour or so.

 

Well, from what it sounds like...it's likely the same reason some people like going to places like Goodwill and Buffalo Exchange. I don't doubt everything you're saying, but I can make an encounter feel connected and intimate even if I'm asking $500. Anybody can leave their bed unmade, not clean their cat's litterbox for weeks, not mop or clean their toilet for months (true story, of an apartment in San Francisco I helped clean last week). If that's what you want....go for it.

 

However, you seem to be taking the high road for hiring someone for $150 off craigslist. Most guys off craiglist in my area, don't even want to pay that. It was only in another area that I was able to come up with my regular hour rate.

 

I just came back from the store and ran into a dancer from the BW, we sat out at his car for a good half hour just chatting. I'm buying him lunch soon, and then he's coming over this weekend. The cost to me? pennies compared to an escort off a professional site.

 

Well, let me tell you there will always be 'clients' for guys like that. I'm not suggesting anything negative about the guy, but he sounds like one of the types that will meet a client for $100 one time, and then "become friends" after that. I stopped doing that long time ago.

 

I had a client I met last week off craiglist in another area. He tried to talk me into that kind of arrangement, even using certain words to make it appear I was 'beneath' him. 1st, he tried to get me to sleep over after the session, for free. No. I have a nice hotel downtown. But then, what really got me is...he started talking about his boat in Ft Lauderdale. I was like, yeah that'd be nice to do. But then he goes on to say, "If we go, we have to be 'friends' because I don't take EMPLOYEES out on my boat." I said, EXCUSE ME? I'm not working for you! Then he says, "if I'm paying you, you're on my payroll". I said, "dude...I don't work for you any more than the person on the street selling lemonade to you." You not helping me do anything, or paying for anything beyond the 1 hour that you just paid for (okay, I didn't say that part...but I was thinking it!)

 

The issue with becoming friends with 'those type of' clients, is the fact that many of them have this idea that you're subordinate to them. I can't stand when guys make me feel like I need them, or make it like they are offering me something so they can feel like they're offering me a lifestyle that I wouldn't be able to achieve without them. But then, on top of all of that...they expect your services to come at no charge to them. Meanwhile, they're fucking 100 million other guys, and you're just a groupie.

 

Not sure if this is really related to what you just said...but I just had to bring it up, because I met the person off craigslist lol.

[+ FreshFluff]

I had a client I met last week off craiglist in another area. He tried to talk me into that kind of arrangement, even using certain words to make it appear I was 'beneath' him. 1st, he tried to get me to sleep over after the session, for free. No. I have a nice hotel downtown. But then, what really got me is...he started talking about his boat in Ft Lauderdale. I was like, yeah that'd be nice to do. But then he goes on to say, "If we go, we have to be 'friends' because I don't take EMPLOYEES out on my boat." I said, EXCUSE ME? I'm not working for you! Then he says, "if I'm paying you, you're on my payroll". I said, "dude...I don't work for you any more than the person on the street selling lemonade to you." You not helping me do anything, or paying for anything beyond the 1 hour that you just paid for (okay, I didn't say that part...but I was thinking it!)

 

The issue with becoming friends with 'those type of' clients, is the fact that many of them have this idea that you're subordinate to them. I can't stand when guys make me feel like I need them, or make it like they are offering me something so they can feel like they're offering me a lifestyle that I wouldn't be able to achieve without them. But then, on top of all of that...they expect your services to come at no charge to them. Meanwhile, they're fucking 100 million other guys, and you're just a groupie.

 

Actually, the main issue with becoming friends with him is that he's a jerk. You know he came up with that "boat is for friends" line as a way of getting free sex.

 

BTW, you have no idea what this boat is like, whether it's leased or owned, or whether it even exists. I'd ignore the crap about the boat altogether and just treat him like any other client.

[JoeyBryant]

Actually, the main issue with becoming friends with him is that he's a jerk. You know he came up with that "boat is for friends" line as a way of getting free sex.

 

BTW, you have no idea what this boat is like, whether it's leased or owned, or whether it even exists. I'd ignore the crap about the boat altogether and just treat him like any other client.

 

lol, I read this part before you edited it...thought that alone was hilarious.

 

Well, I believe the boat exists because I met some of his friends that night and it came up in the conversation (we agreed to meet at a bar first, then go from there).

[corndog]

Speaking for myself, I browse Backpage and Craigslist from time to time, but I'm very, very reluctant to hire from those sites because of the many pitfalls that have already been discussed. Although I don't think you could get away with it on CL, if I see an ad on BP that includes a link to an ad on rb, rm or m4rn, I would view that ad with a lot more interest than the rest. I know it's not foolproof, but I would consider ads on the main sites as hints that the escort was taking his work seriously and professionally.

[bigvalboy]

Well, from what it sounds like...it's likely the same reason some people like going to places like Goodwill and Buffalo Exchange. I don't doubt everything you're saying, but I can make an encounter feel connected and intimate even if I'm asking $500. Anybody can leave their bed unmade, not clean their cat's litterbox for weeks, not mop or clean their toilet for months (true story, of an apartment in San Francisco I helped clean last week). If that's what you want....go for it.

 

However, you seem to be taking the high road for hiring someone for $150 off craigslist. Most guys off craiglist in my area, don't even want to pay that. It was only in another area that I was able to come up with my regular hour rate.

 

 

 

Well, let me tell you there will always be 'clients' for guys like that. I'm not suggesting anything negative about the guy, but he sounds like one of the types that will meet a client for $100 one time, and then "become friends" after that. I stopped doing that long time ago.

 

I had a client I met last week off craiglist in another area. He tried to talk me into that kind of arrangement, even using certain words to make it appear I was 'beneath' him. 1st, he tried to get me to sleep over after the session, for free. No. I have a nice hotel downtown. But then, what really got me is...he started talking about his boat in Ft Lauderdale. I was like, yeah that'd be nice to do. But then he goes on to say, "If we go, we have to be 'friends' because I don't take EMPLOYEES out on my boat." I said, EXCUSE ME? I'm not working for you! Then he says, "if I'm paying you, you're on my payroll". I said, "dude...I don't work for you any more than the person on the street selling lemonade to you." You not helping me do anything, or paying for anything beyond the 1 hour that you just paid for (okay, I didn't say that part...but I was thinking it!)

 

The issue with becoming friends with 'those type of' clients, is the fact that many of them have this idea that you're subordinate to them. I can't stand when guys make me feel like I need them, or make it like they are offering me something so they can feel like they're offering me a lifestyle that I wouldn't be able to achieve without them. But then, on top of all of that...they expect your services to come at no charge to them. Meanwhile, they're fucking 100 million other guys, and you're just a groupie.

 

Not sure if this is really related to what you just said...but I just had to bring it up, because I met the person off craigslist lol.

 

Actually I was trying to make a different point to Mikey about how clients are now finding other ways to find guys, like through CL, BP, Grindr....and for myself I find more guys through the BW and SR than I do from hiring the traditional way.

 

But FF is correct on one point, the guy that you met with the boat in FTL sounds like a jerk. He treated you as a subordinate, and not as an equal. Always walk away from anyone with that kind of attitude. If in fact you want to pursue the arrangement and want to be friends, that's one thing, but if you want this to be more business, then I would draw clear boundaries as to what you expect. Good luck

[Nvr2Thick]

Well, from what it sounds like...it's likely the same reason some people like going to places like Goodwill and Buffalo Exchange. I don't doubt everything you're saying, but I can make an encounter feel connected and intimate even if I'm asking $500. Anybody can leave their bed unmade, not clean their cat's litterbox for weeks, not mop or clean their toilet for months (true story, of an apartment in San Francisco I helped clean last week). If that's what you want....go for it.

 

Yes Joey. You understand my point perfectly. I'm looking for castoffs who leave shit in the toilet and the litterbox, not hot amateurs who beat you on price because this isn't their livelihood.

 

However, you seem to be taking the high road for hiring someone for $150 off craigslist. Most guys off craiglist in my area, don't even want to pay that.

 

...or they don't want to pay YOU that.

[instudiocity]

...the guy that you met with the boat in FTL sounds like a jerk. He treated you as a subordinate, and not as an equal. Always walk away from anyone with that kind of attitude.

Oh, BVB, YOU'RE AWESOME! Honey, if I were a size queen, I'd report that you were 28" x 28".

[JoeyBryant]

...or they don't want to pay YOU that.

 

Oh, yeah right. Obviously they don't want to pay that because they've been comfortable finding guys to pay less all along. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said earlier. I said "in my area" and then I stated that I did in fact receive my full asking not once, but TWICE in the same city in another area from CL. I even posted an ad on CL on my way to that same city, and within 45 minutes found a client to agree to my full asking.

 

I also stated in either this or another thread...that I even had a client I see regularly tell me about another female escort who mentioned the same thing...about how she used to make good money "in my area" 2-3 years ago, but now only gets the "what can you do for $50". I also mentioned, in either this or another thread...that non of the escorts in my area from 3 years ago, are still advertising today. So obviously, they don't want to pay ANYONE, that. They were able to get what they got while getting it...and moved the hell on. I'm about to do the same thing.

 

We just have to realize that it's not always up to an individual, some markets are just notoriously cheap. My area is one of them. I'm not sure what happened, but that's how it is. I had a client who paid my full rate off men4rent 2 years ago, then he messaged me from CL and when I offered the same rate...but he cited foreclosure and some other stuff and could only offer me like half of my asking rate. One can argue, I was only 'half' as good in bed lol, but I doubt it. Poor guy was more than half-way out of breath by the time we were done the first time...and eventually he came around again for the full agreement.

 

And there's so much action on CL, that the main escort ads IN MY AREA aren't getting the traffic.

[JoeyBryant]

Oh wow, look what I found from way back in 2005:

 

Denver, btw, used to be a

>big yes, but I have no idea how it is now.

 

 

A BIG NO.

Could only get one escort to return a call or email and then only his agency saying he was out of town. Did find one masseur who wasn't that bad, but again, not my first, second or even third choice.

 

 

In my emails (sent weeks ahead of my arrival) I always included the dates I would be in town. My first choice for an escort did send an email two weeks after I had returned home saying he was available if I was still interested. Anyway, NO.

 

Fortunately, I hooked up with several hot real guys from Craig's list, so saved money and had a good time anyway.:9

 

that explains a lot. So, next month's checklist is: put in 30 day notice, call pods and put my stuff in storage, and spend the next 30 days looking for a new place. It's only become exponentially worse over the months.

[bigvalboy]

Oh, BVB, YOU'RE AWESOME! Honey, if I were a size queen, I'd report that you were 28" x 28".

 

Hey ISC, I sent you a PM.

[foranhour]

I'm sorry if someone said it and I missed it, but where do escorts advertise on Craigslist? I thought they did away with that section.

[Lookin]

. . . where do escorts advertise on Craigslist? I thought they did away with that section.

 

 

http://media.oregonlive.com/today/photo/12743928-standard.jpg

 

Yes, so did I. I assume you gentlemen are just having a little Friday Fun.

[+ Travis69]

I'm sorry if someone said it and I missed it, but where do escorts advertise on Craigslist? I thought they did away with that section.

 

They put ads in "men seeking men" and "casual encounters". They use words such as generous, gen, jen, assistance, financial help, etc or just use the $$$ sign.

[Michael Wayne]

or they run a regular personal ad that is within terms of use and cannot be flagged. They specify a particular type they like. If guys respond who are NOT their type they reply with an answer like this, "Thanks for your response. As my ad indicates you are not exactly my physical type. However, i do advertise on rentboy.com and i have clients of all ages, sizes and body types. If u r interested i can send u my direct rentboy link." Believe me this method works. hey Big Val: I really appreciate your imput on this thread and u 2 Joey! and everyone! keep it up........ http://www.rentboy.com/magicmikey

[Juan Vancouver]

There is also a big price war going on and CL is behind it. many of the cancellations are a product of this. A guy books with a leading pro from the 3 big sites but he browses CL and finds a hot 24 year old with a huge cock and a ripped body offering his services for half of the going rate on the big three so of course the client is curious and cost conscious and books the cheaper guy. Thus the 200-300$ a hour guys are left home alone on a saturday night. This is the state of the biz right now................ http://www.rentboy.com/magicmikey http://www.rentmen.com/mikeyusatop

 

 

I say thank you Craigslist.

 

If a prospective client that was about to book me is "cost conscious" as you very elegantly put it and in looking for a bargain is willing to risk his wellness, his time and his money, then I can say categorically that we are not a good match. In any way. I am not in the business of competing against "the diamond in the rough" or the "hot 24 year old with a huge cock and a ripped body". I am a professional who loves his work and has honed his abilities for many years. I provide a safe space where men who are looking for an intimate encounter can relax, put themselves in my hands and have a consistently fulfilling experience. I am a perfect match for men who need intelligent conversation, emotional awareness, world experience, even a therapeutic approach. I am a perfect match for men who want to take advantage of my expertise to learn about their bodies and emotional responses. I am an escort. I provide a very specialized kind of companionship and that level of expertise comes with a price. A price that is not negotiable.

 

I don't have to worry about the hot 24 year old with the huge cock. I don't compete with him. If it turns out that he also has amazing interpersonal skills and turns out to be an incredible escort, all the best for him. That just gives my clients better men from which they can choose.

 

I know that some of my clients go and hire from Craigslist. I know my clients hire other escorts, sometimes for the variety, sometimes because they are just cheaper. I am always glad when they do. They always come back really happy to see me, more appreciative than ever before.

 

In my world there is no war, price or otherwise. It would be like saying that the colour yellow (With a $10 price tag) is competing against the color blue that costs 8 dollars. Yellow can't compete with blue. People who want blue will get blue, people who want yellow will get yellow regardless of how much blue costs. And for the sake of everyone I am really happy there's a big spectrum of colours to choose from.

 

This, of course, is my personal experience. I don't expect anyone else's experience to be the same as mine.

 

I thought this thread needed a different point of view.

 

Power to all!