***WARNING***

[+ glutes]

A well reviewed international escort recently asked me if I would transfer money for him from my bank account, to a foreign bank. I am sure many people maybe smitten with this, or any escort, but I recommend that you do NOT do money transfers for the following reasons:

 

-Once a party gets a hold of your checking account number with ABA routing information it could be sold on the net, or someone could siphon off funds from your account during other 'transactions'

 

-The Feds are taking a very dim view of transfering money to 3rd partys, either in or outside of the US, since 9/11. This is from the 'terrorist' side, but also consider the implications of the IRS re. money laundering.

 

I know we all try to help friends and new aquaintances at times, but this is going off the scale. USE CAUTION fellow Hoovillites.

[Guest ncm2169]

< fellow Hoovillites >

 

I always thought it was Hoovillians. :+

 

Excellent advice!

[OneFinger]

OK, you certainly got my attention on this one. I have a couple of questions which I'm sure others would appreciate knowing.

 

1. Did the escort only ASK you for this favor or was there some explicit or implied threat if you did not transfer money?

 

2. Did you actually transfer money?

 

3. If you actually transferred money, was your account info misused?

 

4. Were you actually contacted by some agency (bank, FBI, customs, etc.) concerning the transfer?

 

I'm not sure I would have been savy enough to consider all the implication of such a request. IMHO, based on your post, this could either have been an innocent request or a potential scam.

 

I would appreciate more info if you don't mind sharing. I'm not looking for specifics such as escort name, etc. I'm mainly curious if you were smart enough to avoid problems or if you unfortunately found yourself in a pile of stink.

[axebahia]

Is your concern just with money transfers or is it with payments by check or credit card? As for money transfers, the triggering point for scrutiny under the Patriot Act is individual transfers of $10,000 or more. Is anybody on here really paying a fee like that?

[Guest mondo]

Actually routing numbers are generic to each financial institution. In fact you can call any bank and request their account routing number and they'll happily give it to you. It's your checking or savings account number that can cause damage if fallen into the wrong hands.

 

Not specifically for the reasons you mentioned however, I would not wire transfer funds to anybody in or outside the states. There is very little recourse should something go stray.

[trilingual]

Not that I'm suggesting that anyone here do something that makes them uncomfortable, but from a legal standpoint I don't see a whole lot of difference between helping a foreign escort transfer money and engaging the escort's services in the first place! (In the U.S. and many other countries, the latter is definitely illegal; the former only questionably so.)

 

Although I know many people would be uneasy about doing this, it's probably not risky unless you're making repeated transfers. It's perfectly legal to wire money within or outside the U.S. Transfers of more than $9,999 (as I recall) to foreign accounts trigger reporting requirements by the banks and possibly some obligation by the person making the transfer to fill out some Treasury forms. Your bank can tell you what the requirements are.

 

If you make a transfer to someone else's account, whether domestically or abroad, I don't think the recipient has any access to your account information. It's a transaction you initiate with your own bank. The recipient doesn't do anything at all. Of course, you will need the bank and account information for the person or company to whom you're transferring funds, but they don't get yours, unless they're also transferring to you. When it's all accomplished, the money just shows up in their account as an incoming wire transfer (and they'll probably be charged a fee by their bank for receiving it). You also have to pay a fee to make the transfer. At my own bank, I think it's something like $30.

 

In the case at hand, I suspect the foreign escort probably wants to transfer home the cash proceeds of his stay in the U.S., rather than carry the money back in cash and run the risk of loss, theft or confiscation by crooked foreign immigration/customs agents.

[Flower]

Actually, I agree with your advise but for other reasons.

 

Wire transfers are a BIG part of USA and world moneyed transactions and used daily by huge number of businesses and individuals. I accept and send wire transfers both for business and for occasional personal use--when I do, I use a special account I have set up just for that purpose--money is not left in that account but just used to send from or to receive WTs.

 

As pointed out, routing numbers have no value since they are public information, and anyone you write a check to has your account number, so not sure what the difference is.

 

HOWEVER, that being said, it seems to me the greater danger here is aiding and abetting a scheme to avoid paying income taxes--it is SO simple to WT money these days, why on earth would anyone ask someone else to do it EXCEPT for the purpose of avoiding detection. :+

[+ glutes]

Interesting responses to my post, but I'm keeping it very general to protect identities of all involved.

The reason I posted was just what the subject line says "WARNING". I don't want to see any Hoovillites/Hoovillians/Hoovillers suffer trying to help a new 'acquaintance'.

[axebahia]

I was presented with a similar request in July from an imported escort. In that case, he said he needed to be sure the money was in the account to pay for his rent. I told him he would have to courier it back to a friend and figure out how to get it into his account at his own expense. Are we moving from a cash profession to a cashless profession?

[Guest YFSC]

>As pointed out, routing numbers have no value since they are

>public information, and anyone you write a check to has your

>account number

 

Good point.

 

 

> --it is SO simple to WT money these days, why on earth

>would anyone ask someone else to do it EXCEPT for the purpose

>of avoiding detection.

 

A possible other, simple, innocent reason that has nothing to do with detection or avoiding detection: not having a bank account.

 

It's unlikely (though not impossible) for a US resident escort, but it's not at all unlikely for a foreign visitor, and this was identified as an "international escort."

 

Most, if not all, banks will no longer accept a wire transfer from a walk-in who does not have an account, and most foreign visitors are not likely to have accounts in US banks. They are also not likely to be able to open an account, because they are not likely to have a Social Security number (or other tax ID number), unless they have (or once had) a visa that allows working. So a foreign escort has no place to stash his cash and no way to send it home, and he has to walk around with it and run the risk of having it lost or stolen.

[trilingual]

Anyone can get a TIN., whether or not they have a working visa and regardless of where they live. There are many non-residents who have bank accounts in the U.S. Most of them have TINs.

 

Non-resident foreigners can open bank accounts in the U.S. The requirements seem to have tightened in the past few years (it used to be a virtually "no questions asked" affair). A visiting friend from Brazil was interested in opening an account recently. He didn't have a TIN and this is what Citibank asked for:

 

1. Passport

2. A copy of his visa/entry into the U.S. (this from the passport, obviously)

2. A second form of ID (like a credit card)

3. Three months of bank statements from his bank in Brazil, or a letter of recommendation from his home bank.

4. Proof of his address back home (like a utility bill, or the appearance of his name/address on the bank statement or in the letter of recommendation from his home bank).

 

A TIN wasn't required, although it would have been helpful and may have eliminated some of the other paperwork required.

[convertibletop]

>A well reviewed international escort recently asked me if I

>would transfer money for him from my bank account, to a

>foreign bank. I am sure many people maybe smitten with this,

>or any escort, but I recommend that you do NOT do money

>transfers for the following reasons:

>

> -Once a party gets a hold of your checking account number

>with ABA routing information it could be sold on the net, or

>someone could siphon off funds from your account during other

>'transactions'

>

> -The Feds are taking a very dim view of transfering money

>to 3rd partys, either in or outside of the US, since 9/11.

>This is from the 'terrorist' side, but also consider the

>implications of the IRS re. money laundering.

>

>I know we all try to help friends and new aquaintances at

>times, but this is going off the scale. USE CAUTION fellow

>Hoovillites.

>

 

Perhaps, you may wish to consider the use of international travelers checks as an alternative to wire transfers.

[Boston Guy]

I've sent and received money via wire transfer many times, although not often for personal purposes.

 

Routing numbers are not private. Bank account numbers are more private. However, it would be an unusual US bank that would initiate a transfer request from some party who simply has someone else's bank account number. If my bank did this to me, I'd demand that they make good on the on the funds -- immediately. They do not have the legal ability to transfer my funds without my direct authorization. Any unauthorized transfer becomes the bank's responsibility and not mine.

 

I would suggest that the reason the escort wanted the money transferred was either (a) speed: he needed the money in his account soon, in order to pay urgent bills; or (b) ease: he wasn't someplace where he could easily make a deposit into his account.

 

From a US-centric point of view, it may seem an odd request. In my opinion, it would seem like a far less unusual request to a European, if only because the European banking system is far more oriented toward electronic transactions than the US system was and still is.

 

If I felt comfortable with the escort and was ready to hand him a check, I'd have no qualms whatsoever initiating a wire transfer to him instead, so long as I was assured that we had the correct target bank account information and that the transfer would settle our agreement.

 

BG

[HotdadENYC]

Why would anyone consider sending money in advance, or in lieu of a meeting in person?

 

Couldn't this whole issue be resolved if the client ONLY paid the escort in person?

 

Let me know if I missed anything, but I think the advice is pretty self-sufficient.

 

hd NYC

[OneFinger]

OK, convertibletop, I'll ask the stupid question. Why did you choose to resurrect a thread that's over 18 months old for your first post? How in the world did you ever find it?

[Guest msclonly]

Your Banks' Routing Number and your Account number is

in the lower left hand corner of everyone of your checks for ALL to see before they cash your check to them!

 

:7 :7 :7

[Steven_Draker]

Well, I don't know why Europe has been mentioned in this thread. For someone who has been following the discussions on this board it's pretty obvious that European banks have nothing to do with the original post. No harm involved.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Converted

 

An excellent question!

[flguy]

Tri: You can't obtain an ITIN any longer if you are an alien until AFTER you have closed and SOLD a piece of property. It doesn't make sense to me as it is actually a way the government could follow foreigners in our country. They stopped giving out ITIN's upon request about a year ago. Whenever I sold a piece of property to a foreign customer I used to have them immediately get their number to make obtaining utilities easier. Now it takes up to 10 hours, if you are lucky to straighten out electric, phone, cable and water for their new homes.

[+ glutes]

As the original poster, I can cofirm it was NOT a European escort or bank involved in this.

[Boston Guy]

I may have been the first person to mention the word "European". I did not so not to suggest that it was necessarily a European who was involved here but rather that wire transfers are somewhat unusual for Americans but not to people in other parts of the world, especially Europe.

 

BG

[+ glutes]

Well you would give more info 'away' on a wire transfer than is on your check:

- ABA Number

- Beneficiary Account No.

- Utimate Beneficiary Account No.

- SWIFT number for exchange into / out of U$D

[HotdadENYC]

Thank you Anton, for that response, and yes, I am VERY glad that you sent it.

 

Apparently my response was TOO quick, I didn't know all of the details from the original posting and I probably assumed TOO much.

 

I think the original poster was commenting on the viability (or lack thereof) of wiring money. I'm not sure that he meant to comment, one way or the other, about sending payments in advance.

 

Anton, you are absolutely correct. If a client requests an escort to make certain arrangements (doesn't matter what they are--flights, hotels, theatre, ballet, etc.) then I think the client should provide funds upfront to take care of that. With the added stipulation that the client already knows the escort in question.

 

I would never think of sending money in advance, regardless of the vehicle, NOT because I'm so worried about Uncle Sam, but because it might not be wise to invest in what could turn out to be an "empty hole."

 

Thanks again for the elucidating response.

 

Please tell me though, how IS Amsterdam this time of year ?

 

Warmest Regards,

 

hd NYC

[woodlawn]

> -The Feds are taking a very dim view of transfering money

>to 3rd partys, either in or outside of the US, since 9/11.

>This is from the 'terrorist' side, but also consider the

>implications of the IRS re. money laundering.

 

 

I am not sure what to make of the above. Millions of people in this country send money by wire transfer to the accounts of others, at home and abroad, every single day. That in itself is not a crime. What IS a crime is using your account to send money on behalf of another person if the purpose of doing so is to conceal the fact that the source of the funds is an illegal transaction -- like prostitution -- or to help another person conceal income from IRS. That is called 'money laundering.' Is that what you meant?

[+ glutes]

Yes Woodlawn, you got it!

After an appointment with this non-European escort, he insisted that we go to my bank. He claimed he would give me a large 4-figure amount in cash, and have it transfered to a account in his native country.

Besides the legality side of it, how was I to approach my banker with someone 25 years my younger, who barely spoke English, with a large amount of cash???