The Dark Side of HooBoy. Time to say goodbye

[nate_sf]

>Why can't you just learn from these

>experiences and make sure your sex partners know your limits?

>Communication is always the key to good sex....

>It sounds like you have a problem with self control, and that

>this would happen to you whether the other person was an

>escort or not.

 

This is all so true. I think the self-control issue in this thread is exhausted by now, except to say it is indeed really difficult sometimes to exercise self-control if you're not used to being assertive that way. It's no excuse, but rather than beating yourself up and running away, JustStarting, this is the time to learn some assertiveness training.

 

I think you'll find it is surprisingly easy once you just go out and do it. Before you even meet the guy -- whether he's an escort or a trick or a date -- just say flat out that you want to practice safe sex. That way he'll know where you're coming from, and you won't be in the position of negotiating and second-guessing in the heat of the moment. Also, when you're scanning escort listings or online cruising ads, look specifically for guys that mention they practice safe sex, since then you'll be coming from the same place. This kind of "pre-screening" really makes things much smoother and is surprisingly easy.

 

It takes practice, but it's not as awkward to talk about this stuff to a partner out loud as it might seem. It certainly beats abstinence!

[Brian26]

AWESOME EMAIL!!!!!!!!! As a working boy myself, I, too, face the same concerns, and quite frankly - it's very upsetting when someone wants to bareback me. I just look at them like "I can't believe what I'm hearing."

 

I honestly hadn't been tested in over a year, and last week I decided to bite the bullet - for responsibility sake. It was the longest week of my life!!! I went in today, sweat and tears, talked with the counselor at length and was worried sick. He then blurted out that I was negative and I broke down. Half out of relief, and half out of carrying a bowling ball in my stomach for the past year.

 

It burdens me to think - that there are "adults" out there who have no regard for humanity, and well being, or for themselves. May we all realize how short life really is, and decide to live long,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

In health

Brian

[Brian26]

I MIGHT ALSO ADD TO JUST STARTING OUT - That you too, carry a HUGE responsibility to yourself, and to your encounters. It takes 2 to tango. And the other viewers are right - you must've enjoyed it or you wouldn't have gone there yourself.

 

LIVE LONG, BE WELL, AND HELP OTHERS DO THE SAME!!!

We're all in this together!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Huey]

Oops! Sorry, I read the subject line and thought that someone had finally been up HooBoy's ass }( .

[Guest ncm2169]

OMG!! ROFLMFAO! OUT LOUD!! OMG, my stomach!! :+ :+ :+

[Guest ncm2169]

STILL Laughin!! OOOOOhhhhhh, my stomach hurts !!

[giovoni]

I've wrestled with this post in my head for a while, and I know I'm going to take heat for this, but here's a different view then what I've seen so far. It's honestly a different view than I usually hold myself. However, thinking of this issue some has made me believe that there is another interpretation than to just glibly say that clients have to be responsible and throw escorts that want to bareback off them after it has been discussed or assumed that safe sex is the order of the day.

 

As escorts. I believe we have a power relationship over clients similar to priest/altar boy, doctor/patient, or even simply a guide leading hikers through the mountains. We are paid to "escort" men who may be unfamiliar with gay sex through the treacherous world of beginning intimate relationships with others of the same sex. In some instances, we are the only human intimacy our clients have. In such cases, and in the case illustrated here, I think, the client has little experience guiding a sexual encounter, may be naive about what happens, or may not even know how to talk about what he wants (and doesn't want) to happen once the appointment starts.

 

When someone sits on a client's dick bareback, it is an example in many cases of an escort taking advantage of the escort/client relationship, and not really ALL the client's fault. Am I saying it's all the escort's fault? Of course not. Am I saying all clients are naive children who are too stupid to fend for themselves? Of course not.

 

I AM saying that having a client be taken off guard and let the experience happen isn't all that surprising. In my opinion, the escort must shoulder most of the culpability in this sort of situation. I believe it's our responsibility to hold to stated practices of safe sex no matter what a client seems to think when the moment of penetration comes. Saying that you have a good feeling about a client, that you don't think he poses you a danger, even if you're sure he IS negative and not going to infect you as an escort, is no excuse to escort them through a sexual experience that leads to guilt, worry, uncertainty, and anxiety.

 

As a small aside, I also don't see how anything is directly criticizing Hooboy, except perhaps a badly chosen topic title. Having escorts bareback clients happens and it IS a dark side to the profession.. This site is all about escorts, so it can also reasonably be said that it is a dark side to using this site.

 

Gio in Denver

http://www.angelfire.com/co3/massagebygio

[Guest ncm2169]

No heat here, Gio. :o

 

That was a very cogent, sensible post. Bravo! :*

[Barry]

Very well said Gio!!

 

Barry

[Guest JustStarting]

I must say I’m pleased and surprised that my post generated so many varied and heated responses. I didn’t realize how closely and attentively each word is parsed and analyzed. In re-reading my post and the responses, I must admit to several errors on my part:

 

1. HooBoy—I should have written Hoo-ville rather than HooBoy. I meant the general community of those interested in the site rather than the individual man who started the site. I’ve been a grateful supporter (via paypal) of HooBoy. The “dark side” is not, of course in him, but rather in those of us (Hoo-vill-ites??) who support and read this site and hire the escorts.

 

2. Responsibility—of course the responsibility is entirely mine. I chose to read the site, I chose to hire the escorts, I chose to proceed with the barebacking.

 

3. So why write the post? I was surprised at the ease and readiness of not one but two well reviewed, highly thought of escorts to bottom for me bareback! I didn’t ask, didn’t expect it, never dreamed they would even consider it. I’m no hunk—just another bald aging guy looking for an hour or two with an escort. If that’s how they treat me, I’m sure they treat others just the same! Seldom is this discussed in reviews. They are each handsome, gracious, sexy, warm, open—every thing that I expected and wanted in an escort. (Maybe a little too open, though.)

 

4. Why not identify the escorts? Well they’d deny it first of all. Secondly, if you choose not to believe my posts, how would identifying the escorts convince you otherwise? So what’s the point in naming them. As HooBoy notes: “treat every escort as if they’re positive.”

 

5. So why not continue on and just insist on condoms? I guess I’m just too afraid—I’ll admit that the barebacking was a wonderful sensation, and I’d be afraid now that I’d only want to do it again. I hear you guys yelling “self control,” at me, but I know myself and it’s not worth taking a chance.

 

6. Two roads diverged in a yellow wood…for me many years ago. I picked my path, and I learn now, just as Frost did, I can’t go back and see what the other path would have brought me. I’m married, mostly straight and can’t now risk it all for the pleasures of men. Rod Hagen wrote about his interest in Isherwood who believed in reincarnation. Well, in my next life, I’ll pick the other yellow road.

 

7. One more regret: I never did get to meet Rick Munroe in person—just a brief phone chat. I’m sure it would have been great, but I’ll have to be satisfied with a few photos and that haunting voice over the phone…

[Bilbo]

RE: SAA

 

I have read all the other posts and I am guessing that by making this a reply to the first post, I will be printed at what is currently the bottom.

 

I find it interesting that while there seems to be a general majority consensus that this is a matter of will power and that this man should now avoid gay sex in total rather than with just escorts, no one has suggested that he might find Sex Addicts Annonymous helpful. I am not a psychiatrist. I am not even saying that I think that he needs to attend one or more meetings of this twelve step program. But I would like to hint that this thread might remind me of what could happen should a light drinker realize that he is an alchoholic and then turn all Carry Nation on a room full of heavy drinkers.

 

That said, I must say that this thread was not quite as acrimonious as my message center aquaintance Woodie had given me to understand from another thread.

[Rick Munroe]

What an eloquent post, JS. Just wanted to say:

 

>I was surprised at the ease and

>readiness of not one but two well reviewed, highly thought of

>escorts to bottom for me bareback!

 

I don't think it should be taken as a reflection of escorts but rather gay men in 2003. For some stupid reason, an increasing number of guys are suddenly relaxed about barebacking. I know they supposedly have these "great" drugs now so guys think it's no big deal but aren't there also strains of HIV showing up that are resistant, not to mention all the other nasty stuff you could get? Why anyone would want to risk it is beyond me. The thought of putting my dick in someone's ass unprotected, or theirs in mine, is a total turnoff for me (and for Derek).

 

>7. One more regret: I never did get to meet Rick Munroe in

>person—just a brief phone chat.

 

I felt the same way when I read your post.

 

>I’ll have to be satisfied with...

>that haunting voice over the phone…

 

Hmmm...maybe I should stop doing my Barnabas Collins imitation until after I've met the guy in person.

[Flower]

And I think the risk of

>him transmitting anything to you would be slight - like how

>would "it" get into your bloodstream?

I'm not sure if that is a rhetorical question or an indication that you really don't know.

 

You are correct in that according to the CDC and authoritative HIV and Aids Health groups' literature and at least one study, bottoms have much less risk than tops when BB'ing--Tops are about 13-15 times more likely to sero-convert thqan bottoms, strictly as a statistic--how rough you get makes a difference. The study they were relying on had a pretty high rate for tops as compared to protected anal sex, but I forget what it was--sorry.

 

But to your question, I am told and have read that there are always microscopic tears during anal sex--the larger the top and tighter the bottom the more the tears and abrasions in BOTH the top and the bottom -- microscopic abrasions and tears that could both give off blood and take it in, as any open wound.

 

Sounds like they're saying that small tops are less likely and bottoms who are size queens more likely to become infectred.

 

Anyway, this is from reading--mainly at gay.com and the med advisors and links from there. The SF 7th street clinic has a lot of information also as well as hundreds of other sites..

[VaHawk]

Well post a link to this study, as I find it really, really difficult to believe that a bareback top runs more risk of contracting HIV than the bottom. The bottom is the one getting his asshole torn and bleeding and receiving the cum up the butt, so how the hell does that make the top more at risk? Sounds like the perfect example of "How to lie with statistics". x(

[Flower]

> Sounds like the perfect example of "How to lie with

>statistics". x(

 

ooops ;( got my tops and bottoms mixed -- thanks gentle guy for the email.

 

And Vahawk, you are absolutely correct--the top has less risk and the bottom is 13-15 times more likely to sero-convert. I'm on the west coast so can't even say it was 3 AM when I made the mistake. Anyway, hope this straighten things out :+

[Guest sdmuscl4hire]

RE: Cohesive

 

good god you are long winded

[jackhammer91406]

So Bilbo won't be on the BOTTOM

 

JS,

Having done my share of dramatic leave taking, I feel I can make some comments about your decision. First, glad to see your correction vis a vie "Hoolville / Hooboy" It's true that this community has a variety of viewpoints and personas, as well as a large resource of information from a number of different perspectives. Regardless of your marital status and the fact that you aren't sure you have the willpower, I would advise against writing off this community . There are many great people here who can become good friends for you and can help you navigate your through your feelings just by having contact with them.

 

As to the incident you describe, a few thoughts. During one of my paid encounters, the extremely hot escort began to lower himself onto me before I had put on a condom. I had a multitude of thoughts running through my mind all at once, but the primary thought was to stop and put one on, and then continue, which we did. In hind sight, I guess the escort "felt" that I was very low risk for him (because in our dialogue before sex, I had discussed the infrequency of sexual intercourse.) For me, the act of anal sex is much more comfortable without a condom because I am very thick and even MAGNUMS cut off too much blood flow. I also feel in hindsight given the nature of his character (such as I could determine) that he was safe for me as well. Having said that, I am still glad we stopped and played safe instead. The stud was no less a good bottom and still awesome to look at.

 

It is difficult for each of us to say what we would do in the OP situation, unless we have walked in his shoes (married etc) but I give him credit for putting the safety of his family first (if not his marriage vows) I wish him well if he does in fact decide to leave.

 

And Michael (sdmuscle4hire) glad to see you back here, hope we see more.

 

[Bilbo]

Yes, but Flower, you still made the point that the top is not totally safe without a condom. 13 - 15 times safER, perhaps, but not totally safe.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Cohesive

 

>good god you are long winded

 

That was actually concise for him.

[Bilbo]

RE: Cohesive

 

Some of us have trouble thinking in sound bytes.

[axebahia]

>The thought of putting my dick

>in someone's ass unprotected, or theirs in mine, is a total

>turnoff for me (and for Derek).

 

Even without all the nasty medical side-effects, what is thrill of barebacking? Why would I want to risk my dick emerging with deposits of shit on it? I don't get it!

[+ Lucky]

"Why would I want to risk my dick emerging with deposits of shit on it? I don't get it!"

 

ROFL

:7

 

Sometimes after posting here my mouse has shit on it, but never have I seen it on my dick after fucking someone.