Baker Refuses to Sell Cake to Gay Couple

[Frequentflier]

Look folks, I wish the bakery didn't want to do this. But they did, and I believe they have a right to do so.

 

VOTE. WITH. YOUR. DOLLARS.

 

I am ending my part of the discussion here. If you'd like to continue the discourse with me please send me a private message.

 

Thankfully your personal belief that its one's right to discriminate in AMERICA is against the views of the majority and against the law. There are countries where its allowed...North Korea, Iran and others. Recognizing in those countries its the government that decides who is CURRENTLY (subject to change as the government deems appropriate) allowed to be discriminated against and/or persecuted. People who want to discriminate against others may sometimes find themselves discriminated against so don't be comfortable with your current treatment. Its also a dangerous slippery slope and people who practice discrimination (I believe) are a dangerous to society's moral fiber and often the physical safety of others. First its not serving someone and openly denigrating them, and then worse as we've seen from history and what happens in the aforementioned countries. I won't be quiet in the face of any tolerance for racism, bigotry, hatred, etc. I won't be private about it either. If need be I'll wear a shirt and hat, rent a billboard, buy ad space, etc.

 

And aren't you benefitting, as an openly gay man, from the laws you claim are not necessary? Without them think about the back of the bus, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, commerce discrimination, different facilities and other forms of branding. Haters and perpetrators would be free to do as they please. You take the freedom you enjoy to be yourself for granted.

[+ deej]

I understand a complaint has been filed and they are investigating but not aware of any findings by the Oregon department of justice just yet.

 

Oh, christ. We're splitting hairs.

 

OK, what I should have said is that the Oregon department of justice has opened an investigation, and as we all know they do this on all consumer complaints where there isn't suspicion of wrong-doing. The baker has two weeks to respond.

[jgoo]

Oh, christ. We're splitting hairs.

 

OK, what I should have said is that the Oregon department of justice has opened an investigation, and as we all know they do this on all consumer complaints where there isn't suspicion of wrong-doing. The baker has two weeks to respond.

 

I was genuinely wanting to know if it had made a finding as i hadn't heard that. Not really splitting hairs as there is a big difference in opening an investigation based on a complaint, which they are required to do, and making any inference about the merits one way or the other. So at this point they neither agree or disagree with any position stated here.

[+ deej]

I wasn't aware a complaint was filed.

[Rick Munroe]

I never get to see Fox News, so I'm really enjoying Xander's posts. They're the next best thing!

[leigh.bess.toad]

I never get to see Fox News, so I'm really enjoying Xander's posts. They're the next best thing!

 

It should be apparent that Xander is a believer in the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Given his age, the quote that comes to mind is:

 

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with unbelievable heros, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

[Rick Munroe]

Lol !!

[operalover21]

I never get to see Fox News, so I'm really enjoying Xander's posts. They're the next best thing!

 

I never get to see MSNBC, so I'm really enjoying Rick's posts. They're the next best thing!

[JackTwist]

"Ace of Cakes" star offers free wedding cake to rejected Oregon couple:

 

http://on.aol.com/video/duff-goldman-helps-gay-couple-denied-by-bakery-517662808

[Rick Munroe]

I never get to see MSNBC, so I'm really enjoying Rick's posts. They're the next best thing!

 

MSNBC?? I am not an Obamabot cheerleader. I think the Dems suck just as bad as the GOP. And I don't watch any of the cable news channels.

[+ azdr0710]

update on the Colorado bakery:

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples?lite

[leigh.bess.toad]

update on the Colorado bakery:

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples?lite

 

I saw that. And I'm glad that they are still coming down on them. Follow the law or get out of business. Businesses can't be allowed to pick and choose which laws they are going to follow based upon their religious beliefs. Because then no business would end up paying taxes because they suddenly found a religion that was against that. And they'd find a religion that would support slavery. And child workers. And unsafe working conditions.

 

And congrats on post #2,000 azdr. Well done.

[Frequentflier]

"At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses," Judge Spencer said in his written order. "This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are."

 

Outstanding! Mean people suck (and not in a good way).

[Lankypeters]

The story about this cake appeared after the story about a family of diners who wrote on a credit card receipt that they weren't tipping because they disapproved of their server's lesbian life style. This later story has been revealed as a fraud. So that makes me somewhat skeptical about the former story, which appeared soon after.

[irishjock]

The NBC coverage has this sentence:

 

 

 

Let's try that same sentence a few other ways:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All of these would have been considered completely acceptable at a time in the not-too distant past. Same sentence. Same meaning. And the jackass bakery owner doesn't have any clue what an notorious club he's joined.

 

<sigh>!

 

1. I thought The Lounge was "no politics".

2. You guys want to be able to freely contract with consenting adults for what under the law is considered prostitution. But you also want to force free agents to enter into contracts that they dont want to? (It doesn't matter if its a justified or a bigoted preference to me.)

 

Yeah, makes perfect sense. I thought you Yanks all read Ayn Rand in High School.

[irishjock]

The story about this cake appeared after the story about a family of diners who wrote on a credit card receipt that they weren't tipping because they disapproved of their server's lesbian life style. This later story has been revealed as a fraud. So that makes me somewhat skeptical about the former story, which appeared soon after.

 

There's been a string of Fake Hate media events lately.

[Strafe13]

1. I thought The Lounge was "no politics".

2. You guys want to be able to freely contract with consenting adults for what under the law is considered prostitution. But you also want to force free agents to enter into contracts that they dont want to? (It doesn't matter if its a justified or a bigoted preference to me.)

 

Yeah, makes perfect sense. I thought you Yanks all read Ayn Rand in High School.

 

I'm not sure where you got your idea of "us Yanks," but the highly selfish version of libertarianism that you attribute to Ayn Rand is only adhered to by people on a certain fringe of the American political spectrum. At least as pertains to anti-discrimination laws and public accommodations, despite some racists and bigots on the extreme far right, for the past 40-plus years, there's been pretty much a national consensus that individuals' preferences or desires to mistreat and otherwise discriminate against others must yield to the overall societal interest in equal access to the ordinaries of civic life, at least as it pertains to racial, gender, and religious classifications. There's a growing awareness that this principle should extend to cover sexual orientation discrimination as well, as the Colorado law at issue demonstrates.

 

As to your bringing escorts into this, there've actually been pretty heated discussions on his board in recent years about escorts choosing to racially discriminate against clients. It's put to the test the predominant theme here on this board that most escorts consider themselves to be professionals, offering professional services. Ironically, the loophole that escorts operate a business that is outside the formal boundaries of the law would seem to be the only thing that saves such discriminating attitudes from the full scrutiny of normal equal access analysis. Well, that and the fact that the very nature of the intimate services that escorts provide (being inextricably intertwined with the illogical rules of sexual attraction) might also provide for a rational distinguishing between the applicability of regular anti-discrimination principles, but I digress...

[Frequentflier]

The story about this cake appeared after the story about a family of diners who wrote on a credit card receipt that they weren't tipping because they disapproved of their server's lesbian life style. This later story has been revealed as a fraud. So that makes me somewhat skeptical about the former story, which appeared soon after.

 

The above post is a little confusing for me at least. If you're wondering if the Colorado cake story is true, here's the Denver Post article and the judge listed is really a judge if you check the government judicial website.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24674413/gay-couple-wins-complaint-against-wedding-cake-baker?IADID=Search-www.denverpost.com-www.denverpost.com

[+ azdr0710]

The story about this cake appeared after the story about a family of diners who wrote on a credit card receipt that they weren't tipping because they disapproved of their server's lesbian life style. This later story has been revealed as a fraud. So that makes me somewhat skeptical about the former story, which appeared soon after.

 

 

this Denver cake story started last year and the (fraudulent) lesbian server story started only a few weeks ago.....

[Frequentflier]

1. I thought The Lounge was "no politics".

2. You guys want to be able to freely contract with consenting adults for what under the law is considered prostitution. But you also want to force free agents to enter into contracts that they dont want to? (It doesn't matter if its a justified or a bigoted preference to me.)

 

Yeah, makes perfect sense. I thought you Yanks all read Ayn Rand in High School.

 

No, we all didn't read Ayn Rand in High School, Elementary or College. And while I read those books as an adult, I trust you know that reading them doesn't mean the reader agrees with all or even any part of them. Under your theory if one of us knowingly breaks the law by speeding we should tolerate a business discriminating against a group of customers? Neither law is ok to break and the point is if one is caught, there are consequences. No difference if someone hires another for something other than their time. Don't commit the crime if you aren't willing to take the consequences. Your "string of Fake Hate media events lately" sounds like another poster - or is it the same poster?

[Lankypeters]

My confusion. The cake story is indeed legit.

[leigh.bess.toad]

I thought you Yanks all read Ayn Rand in High School.

 

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged . One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

 

I will cut you some slack since you don't understand the history of the civil rights movements nor understand the public accommodation laws or the reasons for them. But this is no different than the lunch counters of the 50s in the south refusing to serve the blacks or the bus lines of the 50s forcing the blacks to go to the back of the bus. No different whatsoever.