Ed Koch, who never came out, dies at 88

[TopAz]

Thank you oh so much for that image that popped into my head. Having sex with Ed Koch. I think I just lost a bit of my dinner.

 

Lol. Can't you envision Koch pounding some guy in a sling yelling over and over at him, "Howmidoin?"..."Howmidoin?"..."Howmidoin?"!!

[leigh.bess.toad]

An interesting roster for Mayor Koch's funeral: President Clinton, Mayor Bloomberg to Speak...

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/02/clinton-bloomberg-to-speak-at-ed-kochs-funeral.htmlhttp://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/02/clinton-bloomberg-to-speak-at-ed-kochs-funeral.html

 

What? No George W?

[Rick Munroe]

Yes I know Rick. Which is why I made that comment.

 

I should have realized that! Btw, I stopped really trusting the Times as a news source when they admitted that they allow government officials to censor their own quotes before publication. So this fluffy obit really didn't surprise me. Irritated, yes, but didn't surprise.

 

Yes without it how could we keep up with the Kardashians?

 

I only follow porn stars and political bloggers.

 

What? No George W?

 

One of my favorite inane quotes is when he said he endorsed Bush because he considered himself a "liberal with sanity."

[+ purplekow]

 

I only follow porn stars and political bloggers.

 

 

 

"

The Kardashians are porn stars. Well at least Kim is.

[Frequentflier]

And yet, you did.

 

 

Is it that painful someone doesn't agree with you and that in this country people are allowed to express their views? Have you ever run for public office and put your life out there (real name and all)? Not even a hairy beast can intimidate me. People who believe they are successful bullies are the most enjoyable to challenge.

[Guest verymarried]

I always admired Ed Koch. Considering the number of faults I have, I'm willing to forgive the one he seemed to have. i believe he was a great mayor and great, constributing American.

[EZEtoGRU]

I totally respect Ed Koch's decision not to "come out". That's a decision that each person needs to make for themselves in terms of the timing. Some folks never "came out".....and that's fine as well. Let's remember he was mayor from the late 70's to the late 80's. It was a different era at the time and politicians that were gay did not openly admit it.......which is perfectly fine. I don't see it as a failing in the least. Things are more open now but they weren't then.

 

As far as not talking about AIDS goes, I suppose he should have discussed it.......but really what was he going to say that wasn't already known? It exists. Its horrible. The science community is working on treatments/a cure. Protect yourself in the meantime by minimizing sexual partners. All pretty obvious stuff that was well known via the media. Probably would have been better had he said something, but he chose not to. Maybe not his best decision as mayor.

 

Rest in Peace Ed Koch.

[edjames]

Can you say asexual?

 

This thread started with the comment that Ed Koch never came out, which presumes that Ed Koch was a gay man. Operalover states that back in the day he had "heard" rumors that Ed entertained young men at his apartment, which gives no credence or facts to the rumor. Back in the day, I, nor anyone in my circle of gay friends and acquantances never heard any rumors that Ed was gay.

 

I have another "opinion." I don't think Ed Koch was a sexual man. I think that politics consumed his life and sex never played a part in his life. I think his upbringing and culture prevented him from enjoying sexual relationships and he substituted his passion for politics in place of sex.

 

I, for one, could have cared less if Ed Koch was gay or not.

 

Ed Koch will be remembered for what he did and did not do in his political life. He certainly had a large impact on the city of New York and brought it back from the brink of bankruptcy and ruin. He was a popular mayor who had a certain swagger and appeal to the masses. He did not endear himself to the gay population of NYC and his handling of the AIDS crisis will never be one of the highlights of his political career. It was the Gay Men's Health Crisis and Act Up hat lifted the cause and brought it to the forefront of the public's attention. The GMHC group fought for tenant rights, healthcare and funding which had the biggest impact on the crisis. I know many men who were helped by this organization.

 

ED

[+ deej]

Yeah, like most men in public life he was complex. No single issue defined him. He had his successes (and plenty of them), but everyone has failures.

 

Gays will forever condemn his handling of the AIDS crisis, but that in no way diminishes the great things he did for the city.

[Jaker27]

There was an interesting opinion piece by Richard Kim.

 

Closet case Koch turned his back on the Aids crisis because he himself was gay and just wanted to go in the opposite direction putting as much distance as possible between himself and anything that could be considered gay positive. If Koch was straight he might've been more helpful like Diane feinstein who at least put the city resources into helping people.

 

He's not that much different from today's homo cons though. More then willing to throw their community under the bus to seek their masters approval.

 

http://www.thenation.com/blog/172620/ed-koch-and-cost-closet#

[Diverdan]

Thanks for posting this article, Jaker. I had not seen it and found it to be very succinct. I am sure that many of us would wish we might have done something differently in our lives, so I am not about to judge him for whether or not he "came out". However, as a public official, he certainly did not do many things that he could have done to help the GLBT community, as well as blacks and hispanics, and for that he should be held accountable. Clearly he did a lot for NYC, and those things are to his credit.

DD

[operalover21]

This thread started with the comment that Ed Koch never came out, which presumes that Ed Koch was a gay man. Operalover states that back in the day he had "heard" rumors that Ed entertained young men at his apartment, which gives no credence or facts to the rumor. Back in the day, I, nor anyone in my circle of gay friends and acquantances never heard any rumors that Ed was gay.

 

I have another "opinion." I don't think Ed Koch was a sexual man. I think that politics consumed his life and sex never played a part in his life. I think his upbringing and culture prevented him from enjoying sexual relationships and he substituted his passion for politics in place of sex.

 

I, for one, could have cared less if Ed Koch was gay or not.

 

Ed Koch will be remembered for what he did and did not do in his political life. He certainly had a large impact on the city of New York and brought it back from the brink of bankruptcy and ruin. He was a popular mayor who had a certain swagger and appeal to the masses. He did not endear himself to the gay population of NYC and his handling of the AIDS crisis will never be one of the highlights of his political career. It was the Gay Men's Health Crisis and Act Up hat lifted the cause and brought it to the forefront of the public's attention. The GMHC group fought for tenant rights, healthcare and funding which had the biggest impact on the crisis. I know many men who were helped by this organization.

 

ED

 

I'm sorry but if you were living in New York and had gay friends and didn't hear a single word about Ed Koch being gay, then you had to be living a very sheltered life. I wasn't even out at that time, I was married, and the stories -- every single one of which I believed based on the sources -- were legion. You had to be living under a rock or very sheltered not to have heard them.

[operalover21]

This thread started with the comment that Ed Koch never came out, which presumes that Ed Koch was a gay man. Operalover states that back in the day he had "heard" rumors that Ed entertained young men at his apartment, which gives no credence or facts to the rumor. Back in the day, I, nor anyone in my circle of gay friends and acquantances never heard any rumors that Ed was gay.

 

I have another "opinion." I don't think Ed Koch was a sexual man. I think that politics consumed his life and sex never played a part in his life. I think his upbringing and culture prevented him from enjoying sexual relationships and he substituted his passion for politics in place of sex.

 

I, for one, could have cared less if Ed Koch was gay or not.

 

Ed Koch will be remembered for what he did and did not do in his political life. He certainly had a large impact on the city of New York and brought it back from the brink of bankruptcy and ruin. He was a popular mayor who had a certain swagger and appeal to the masses. He did not endear himself to the gay population of NYC and his handling of the AIDS crisis will never be one of the highlights of his political career. It was the Gay Men's Health Crisis and Act Up hat lifted the cause and brought it to the forefront of the public's attention. The GMHC group fought for tenant rights, healthcare and funding which had the biggest impact on the crisis. I know many men who were helped by this organization.

 

ED

 

Well, I don't really want to dredge up that particular case but ACT-UP did more to harm the cause of gay rights with the vast majority of Americans than any other single group or person in the 1980s. People were completely turned off by them including many in the gay community. Calling people names and engaging in behavior outside the bounds of the law helped no one but it got them a lot of attention -- all negative.

 

AMFAR and GMHC were a far different, and more positive, story.

[Lankypeters]

I'm sorry but if you were living in New York and had gay friends and didn't hear a single word about Ed Koch being gay, then you had to be living a very sheltered life. I wasn't even out at that time, I was married, and the stories -- every single one of which I believed based on the sources -- were legion. You had to be living under a rock or very sheltered not to have heard them.

 

Agree. Gay rumors swirled about Koch from the time he came onto the scene as mayor. An acquaintance of mine befriended a group of working boys who told him they paid hizzoner regular visits. Koch often traveled with a group of good looking young men he referred to as his cousins. Andy Humm has a piece in this weeks Gay City News about Koch's gay life, which included a lover, whom Koch unceremoniously dumped when he became mayor. The man moved to San Francisco, where he later died of AIDS. And many will tell you that Bess Myerson, the former Miss America, and one of Koch's frequent companions (read "beards") had quite a set of balls.

[Rick Munroe]

Well, I don't really want to dredge up that particular case but ACT-UP did more to harm the cause of gay rights with the vast majority of Americans than any other single group or person in the 1980s. People were completely turned off by them including many in the gay community.

 

That's not true at all. People are alive today thanks to ACT UP and I don't know anyone who is "turned off" by their activism. From dailykos: "ACT UP protested pharmaceutical companies profiting from the sales of HIV/AIDS drug AZT but without making it easily accessible to people infected with the disease. Their acting up REVOLUTIONIZED the government-medical-pharmaceutical world, eventually the FDA shortened the drug approval process by two years, and would create the drug cocktails that are keeping so many alive."

 

As far as not talking about AIDS goes, I suppose he should have discussed it.......but really what was he going to say that wasn't already known? It exists. Its horrible.

 

Nobody has ever said they wanted him to "talk about it." They wanted him to DO something about it. People were dying and not receiving proper care or treatment. He was too scared of anyone thinking he was gay so he turned his back on thousands of sick and dying New Yorkers.

[Rick Munroe]

Great article, Jaker27. For those who didn't read it and still think Koch was a good man:

 

Koch wanted to avoid the perception that gays would get “special treatment” in his administration. The result is that “for the next two years, AIDS policy in New York would be little more than a laundry list of unmet challenges, unheeded pleas, and programs not undertaken. All the ingredients for a successful battle against the epidemic existed in New York City except for one: leadership.”

 

By January 1984, New York City under Koch’s leadership had spent a total of just $24,500 on AIDS. That same year, San Francisco, a city one-tenth the size of New York, spent $4.3 million, a figure that grew to over $10 million annually by 1987.

 

The mayor of San Francisco during those years was Dianne Feinstein, who like Koch was no radical. She came from the centrist coalition that included Dan White, the city supervisor who murdered Supervisor Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone, whose office Feinstein assumed in the wake. Like Koch, she had a troubled relationship with the gay community (she infamously vetoed a domestic partnership bill in 1983). And like Koch, she was, above all, a political opportunist with national ambitions who happened to live in a liberal city with a large, politically active gay population. But she was straight, and—paradoxically—that made a difference in how those two cities treated people with AIDS in those formative years.

 

Ed Koch might not have been in a position to accelerate antiretroviral drug development or slow the transmission of HIV on a national scale, but he definitely could have made the lives of thousands of people with AIDS in New York City a whole lot more humane, which might also have extended some of those lives until an effective treatment was available. That he has blood on his hands seems likely. That he is guilty of the curious combination of paranoia, myopia, self-interest and callousness that so often attaches to closeted public officials seems undeniable. Would the fight against AIDS been helped had Ed Koch come out of the closet? Possibly. But it definitely would have been better had he just been straight.

[+ WilliamM]

Thanks for posting this article, Jaker. I had not seen it and found it to be very succinct. I am sure that many of us would wish we might have done something differently in our lives, so I am not about to judge him for whether or not he "came out". However, as a public official, he certainly did not do many things that he could have done to help the GLBT community, as well as blacks and hispanics, and for that he should be held accountable. Clearly he did a lot for NYC, and those things are to his credit.

DD

 

I have not visited this site since Ed Koch died on Friday. Some of the comments are amazing. I should not pick on you, Diverdan, because I agree with some of your comments, especially Koch's lack of support for the GLBT, African-American and Hispanic communities in New York City. Considering that those communities make up a huge part of the population of the city, I do not understand your conclusion that Koch did a lot for the city, and those things are to his credit.

 

I tend to judge a mayor (governor or president) on what he or she did for the people most in need. On the basis, Ed Koch would rate very low.

 

And you really do not need to even take his sexuality into consideration in order to reach that conclusion.

[uwsman2]

The problem was both that Koch refused to meet with activists who were trying to get the City government to do more on AIDS AND that the City government's response to AIDS was sluggish compared to San Francisco and L.A. and even the state government. It was Koch's second health Commissioner, Steve Joseph, who really put big effort into the AIDS issue. On the question of rumors v. fact on Koch's sexuality, I had a friend during the 1980s who knew Koch before he went into elective politics and said he was gay, he put in appearances at the Stonewall Inn during the 1960s before he went into politics, he had boyfriends, including one long-time boyfriend that he broke up with before he starting running for office. Perhaps the best confirmation that he was gay is that when he said on a radio station that he was heterosexual, the New York Post gave it a screaming full front page headline. If nobody thought he was gay, that would not have been a front page story.

[edjames]

Well, Operalover, you sure have a way with words, or lack thereof! Not out! Honey, I marched in the very first gay pride parade (or protest, it really wasn't a parade) back in the summer of '69. I can assure you that I was more homo that you could ever wish to be! I was out and about for many years before Koch took office and I was active in all aspects of the gay social life. I heard my share of rumors over the years and Koch just simply didn't warrant mention. Who really cares?

[kjun]

Epignos, you are absolutely correct.

[kjun]

Exactly. He was in a position of power and chose not to use that power to help gay men who were dying.

 

You are correct in statement but too harsh in judgment. We all have a choice of when to step forward and just because you are out to the world does not mean others have to be. This is an extremely personal decision.

[Rick Munroe]

You are correct in statement but too harsh in judgment. We all have a choice of when to step forward and just because you are out to the world does not mean others have to be. This is an extremely personal decision.

 

Huh? Honestly, I don't care whether or not Koch was gay or out or in the closet, and I'm sure his other critics don't either. That isn't the issue. The issue is that because of his self-loathing and fear of being outed, he fucked over (sorry for the pun) tens of thousands of sick and dying gay men who desperately needed leadership at that time. Nobody really gives a damn if he ever came out or not. I agree with you; that's a personal decision. So is deciding to only spend $24,500 towards AIDS care in that 2-year span while Dianne Feinstein in SF (a tenth the size of NYC) spent over $4 million. Koch had blood on his hands.

[bcohen7719]

Huh? Honestly, I don't care whether or not Koch was gay or out or in the closet, and I'm sure his other critics don't either. That isn't the issue. The issue is that because of his self-loathing and fear of being outed, he fucked over (sorry for the pun) tens of thousands of sick and dying gay men who desperately needed leadership at that time. Nobody really gives a damn if he ever came out or not. I agree with you; that's a personal decision. So is deciding to only spend $24,500 towards AIDS care in that 2-year span while Dianne Feinstein in SF (a tenth the size of NYC) spent over $4 million. Koch had blood on his hands.

 

Rick,

 

You are absolutely correct. I think there are different ethical and moral values involved

regarding "coming out" or at least, supporting one's "gender role family" in times

of crisis for elected officials vs. private individuals. The elected official not only has a

responsibility for his "family," he is also a role model for them.

 

BC