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Ed Koch, who never came out, dies at 88

operalover21

By operalover21
in The Lounge

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jgoo Community Regular

jgoo

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Excuse my ignorance but was Ed Koch being gay one of those open secrets? Did he have a partner or did he allude to being gay in some ways? I honestly had no idea and am just wondering if it was widely known by others here. Perhaps I should peek out from under my rock from time to time :)

operalover21 Community Regular

operalover21

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Excuse my ignorance but was Ed Koch being gay one of those open secrets? Did he have a partner or did he allude to being gay in some ways? I honestly had no idea and am just wondering if it was widely known by others here. Perhaps I should peek out from under my rock from time to time :)

 

It was the worst kept secret in New York. He had no partner but I knew several young (very young) guys who went over to his place from time to time in the 1980s and earlier. He was often seen around NYC with certain elderly ladies of society who were beards for him. But every one knew he was gay. I wonder what will be said now? I notice in the NYTimes online obituary they say NOTHING.

Epigonos Grand Master

Epigonos

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When asked about his sexuality he always answered the same way. In his lovably blunt way he stated that it was nobody's fucking business who he slept with other than his own. In the end, though many here might disagree with me, he was right it was only his business. He was one of a kind and New York is poorer without him.

Axiom2001 Grand Master

+ Axiom2001

Posted
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When asked about his sexuality he always answered the same way. In his lovably blunt way he stated that it was nobody's fucking business who he slept with other than his own. In the end, though many here might disagree with me, he was right it was only his business. He was one of a kind and New York is poorer without him.

 

 

I concur with your take on this. One's sexuality and her/his relationships is definitely the business of the individual and NO ONE else's!

operalover21 Community Regular

operalover21

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When asked about his sexuality he always answered the same way. In his lovably blunt way he stated that it was nobody's fucking business who he slept with other than his own. In the end, though many here might disagree with me, he was right it was only his business. He was one of a kind and New York is poorer without him.

 

I would probably agree if he were a private individual and not an elected official with the power to speak on this kinds of issues. He did the gay community a disservice not just be refusing to discuss it but by also "playing the game" of being seen around town with women who appeared to be his dates. It was this extra level of deceit that I object to.

 

He was out of office for over 23 years. He could have come out anytime during that period and it would have made an important contribution to the community and to dialogue on these issues.

 

But it was his choice and he made it. I just feel it was the wrong choice.

Rick Munroe Mentor

Rick Munroe

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When asked about his sexuality he always answered the same way. In his lovably blunt way he stated that it was nobody's fucking business who he slept with other than his own.

 

Except being gay has nothing to do with your sex life. One can be celibate and still be straight or gay or whatever. And he would not have answered that way had he been straight.

 

He did the gay community a disservice not just be refusing to discuss it but by also "playing the game" of being seen around town with women who appeared to be his dates. It was this extra level of deceit that I object to.

 

Well, the greater disservice was his completely ignoring the AIDS crisis, as tens of thousands of gay men in NYC were dying. Many thought he was afraid to touch it for fear of being outed.

 

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bonus2-666x500.jpg

Frequentflier Mentor

Frequentflier

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When asked about his sexuality he always answered the same way. In his lovably blunt way he stated that it was nobody's fucking business who he slept with other than his own. In the end, though many here might disagree with me, he was right it was only his business. He was one of a kind and New York is poorer without him.

 

I agree completely. I remember living in NYC when he was mayor and even running into him and answering his "how am I doing" question. New Yorkers like me loved the guy for both his competency as mayor and his genuine love for the City and passion for what it offered its residents. More people should feel comfortable with telling someone a topic isn't their business particularly when it has nothing to do with their professional competency.

Rick Munroe Mentor

Rick Munroe

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New Yorkers like me loved the guy for both his competency as mayor and his genuine love for the City and passion for what it offered its residents.

 

I'm sure the thousands of gay men who died from AIDS during his tenure would disagree. If they could speak, that is.

 

More people should feel comfortable with telling someone a topic isn't their business particularly when it has nothing to do with their professional competency.

 

Can you name a single straight politician who hides the fact that they are straight and refuses to answer the question? Or do they all parade their wives and kids before the cameras?

Frequentflier Mentor

Frequentflier

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I'm sure the thousands of gay men who died from AIDS during his tenure would disagree. If they could speak, that is.

 

Can you name a single straight politician who hides the fact that they are straight and refuses to answer the question? Or do they all parade their wives and kids before the cameras?

 

Probably unfair to put ALL that on Ed Koch, but you seem ok with it. How about you list all your personal views, actions and opinions in a list and we'll pick through your life (well, I won't spend my time doing that but there may be one or more who are like you and will). I was in my early 20's and married to a woman at the time and have no memory of the issue you've pounced on. Maybe he was a heinous as Bachmann, Palin, etc, etc, its just not what I remember from so long ago. I'm not looking to make this a political battle Rick, I think that belongs in a different forum which members choose to visit or not knowing this type of response is probable/likely. You are welcome to ask to move this topic and joust with anyone (not me) who wants to do that with you and/or others. No wonder we read about some members not wanting to actively participate - probably couldn't post the time without someone else having an issue with it. And the fact Koch would tell people something was none of their business has NOTHING to do with the fact others choose not to hide their straightness or promote it. Seems you can take issue with the latter but why the former? But don't answer for my benefit because I'm not going to check this topic again.

Rick Munroe Mentor

Rick Munroe

Posted
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I was in my early 20's and married to a woman at the time and have no memory of the issue you've pounced on.

 

You could very easily google it and learn about the "issue I've pounced on" or, even more easily, you could click on the link that deej provided just 2 posts above yours. And please stop the personal attacks just because you can't cope with someone expressing an opposing view.

Frequentflier Mentor

Frequentflier

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You could very easily google it and learn about the "issue I've pounced on" or, even more easily, you could click on the link that deej provided just 2 posts above yours. And please stop the personal attacks just because you can't cope with someone expressing an opposing view.

 

You're the one who stirred it up, so cut the drama of "personal attacks" (pot). Oh, the fake injury card. In the forum heading on the first page - what does it say under "The Lounge"? It says "No politics, No religion, No war". Need a translation? Ask a friend. Or are reasonable boundaries something just too uncomfortable? My post agreeing with something positive that was said was BEFORE deej's link and I didn't do a Google search to evaluate an 88 year old man's life before posting from memory - and bummer for you (apparently) if you don't like that. Still think you're free to start a thread in the "Politics" forum and battle away.

operalover21 Community Regular

operalover21

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Probably unfair to put ALL that on Ed Koch, but you seem ok with it. How about you list all your personal views, actions and opinions in a list and we'll pick through your life (well, I won't spend my time doing that but there may be one or more who are like you and will). I was in my early 20's and married to a woman at the time and have no memory of the issue you've pounced on. Maybe he was a heinous as Bachmann, Palin, etc, etc, its just not what I remember from so long ago. I'm not looking to make this a political battle Rick, I think that belongs in a different forum which members choose to visit or not knowing this type of response is probable/likely. You are welcome to ask to move this topic and joust with anyone (not me) who wants to do that with you and/or others. No wonder we read about some members not wanting to actively participate - probably couldn't post the time without someone else having an issue with it. And the fact Koch would tell people something was none of their business has NOTHING to do with the fact others choose not to hide their straightness or promote it. Seems you can take issue with the latter but why the former? But don't answer for my benefit because I'm not going to check this topic again.

 

The difference between me and Ed Koch is that I am not an elected official. I am not a public figure. He has different obligations than I do. So my personal views and proclivities are irrelevant. Surely, you see that difference.

leigh.bess.toad Mentor

leigh.bess.toad

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We have to remember the times and the reaction of the public health community. Which was very little. Legionnaire's disease was shortly before that. The CDC and public health officials all pounced on it with immediate funding, news was in the headlines and lead the nightly news. The total cases? About 230 with 34 deaths. Young gay men were dying, mainly in NYC at first. Yet no one reacted to the alarms being issued by Linda Laubenstein and Larry Kramer and the Gay Men's Health Crisis. Koch refused to meet with them. He refused to allocate any money for the care, office space for the work of getting the word out, refused to talk about it in public, despite the fact that if he had acted on Dr. Laubenstein's warnings, young men could have been saved. But they were gay men, rather than old straight white legionnaires. So why bother?

 

Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around for the indifferent early response to the plague. Reagan, the CDC, public health departments, the news media for even refusing to talk about it. And Ed Koch as well. All because he refused to act because he didn't want people to think he was gay or helping gay friends. Remember the slogan when he was running against Mario Cuomo? "Vote for Cuomo, not the homo". There is shame in how the powers that be responded, especially compared to how they responded to the straight man's Legionnaires. All because he didn't want people to think he was a faggot.

 

Yes, he did many very good things. But this is also on his resume. Should an obituary for a major public figure only talk about the positive things. Should Richard Nixon's obit omitted Watergate? Koch's obit should be complete, including his failure to respond to a major health crisis.

Rick Munroe Mentor

Rick Munroe

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I'm not going to check this topic again.

 

And yet, you did. :p

 

The difference between me and Ed Koch is that I am not an elected official.

 

Exactly. He was in a position of power and chose not to use that power to help gay men who were dying.

 

Should an obituary for a major public figure only talk about the positive things. Should Richard Nixon's obit omitted Watergate? Koch's obit should be complete, including his failure to respond to a major health crisis.

 

Did you know that the New York Times' original obit of Koch omitted any talk of AIDS except for a brief, fleeting mention...until there was a huge uproar and they went back and added it later in the day? I love the power of Twitter. :)

leigh.bess.toad Mentor

leigh.bess.toad

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Did you know that the New York Times' original obit of Koch omitted any talk of AIDS except for a brief, fleeting mention...until there was a huge uproar and they went back and added it later in the day? I love the power of Twitter. :)

 

Yes I know Rick. Which is why I made that comment. I have gotten into it with quite a few people, including friends, on Huffington Post about that being excluded. Some said it should only be a positive puff piece. An obituary is a news story and needs to be complete and present an accurate picture. You want a puff piece? Write the eulogy or write "An Appreciation" column. Not in the obit.

leigh.bess.toad Mentor

leigh.bess.toad

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I wonder if Ed was a Dominate TOP or a Power BOTTOM? Either way, I bet he was "large and in charge" even in bed!

 

Thank you oh so much for that image that popped into my head. Having sex with Ed Koch. I think I just lost a bit of my dinner.

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