You're fat and you're ugly and...

[seeker630]

I agree with your observations, seeker. It used to be a societal expression of wealth or being well off to be "well fed" and, as you mention, when folks from less favorable economic places migrate to a place more economically favorable, many, if not most, gain weight. Not necessarily good for your physical health but very good for your mental health.

 

It is difficult to "overcome" genetic "inheritances" which include a myriad of features, attitudes and diseases. I am not in favor of genetic "control" but we have a long way to go to "improve" the human race, don't we?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

KMEM - just to be clear: in the recent study, disadvantaged people who moved to a 'better' neighborhood were actually LESS obese. It may have to do with access to healthier food choices, fitness options, etc.

[gp0560]

I don't think its quite as simple as you make it out to be. I beleive that sexual orientation has a genetic component and is not a life-style choice. But you could choose not to act on it. (Note that I am NOT saying you should.) I believe there is a genetic pre-disposition to alchlolism and other addictions. As you say, an alcoholic can choose whether or not he/she drinks, but that choice is harder for them than for someone without the genetic pre-disposition. There have also been studies that show different brain responses to food in certain people. People are usually over-weight because of choices, but the difficulty associated with those choices is NOT the same for everyone, because of differences in metabolism, brain chemistry, and socio-economic situations. A recent publsihed study showed that when economically-disadvantaged peopel were re-located to 'better' neighbordhoods, the incidence of obesity & diabetes was significantly less than the control group who remained in a disadvantaged neighborhood.

 

Thanks, Seeker, for the clarifications. I was about to write a reply, but you said it better. (And more briefly!)

[+ Travis69]

What if the obese person finds the only way to keep their weight down is by smoking. Acceptable????? LOL....

[Lookin]

Like many black or white arguments, I think the genetic vs. choice arguments usually end up containing shades of gray. It doesn't seem reasonable, to me anyway, to say that every gay person chooses to be gay, or every overweight person is born that way. It's pretty easy to look around and find exceptions to all those 'rules'. And often there's a bit of each.

 

In my opinion, it's better to just take folks one at a time, and try to be understanding and compassionate rather than judgmental.

[jjkrkwood]

Oh lets just face it already. Some people are just born to be Fat and Ugly. And ARE.... It doesnt require 11 pages of Debate....

[bigvalboy]

Oh lets just face it already. Some people are just born to be Fat and Ugly. And ARE.... It doesnt require 11 pages of Debate....

 

And let's add to that mean and hateful and full of prejudice...may point has always been that you will not change everyone. WE are just flawed as a species...enough already!!

[jjkrkwood]

And let's add to that mean and hateful and full of prejudice...may point has always been that you will not change everyone. WE are just flawed as a species...enough already!!

 

I have always thanked you for recognizing the "mean and hateful" in me.....

[bigvalboy]

Mean and hateful, no............Truthful, yes

[KMEM]

KMEM - just to be clear: in the recent study, disadvantaged people who moved to a 'better' neighborhood were actually LESS obese. It may have to do with access to healthier food choices, fitness options, etc.

 

I wasn't really thinking of neighborhoods but something larger, like countries. Moving from one area of a "developed" nation to another with the commensurate increase in income and availability of goods and services very likely could produce the result you mention. I was thinking more along the lines of no food or insufficient food to more than enough food or something similar. Of course, your scenario could be correct in an advanced society.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[leigh.bess.toad]

Just found this on Tumblr. Sort of seems appropriate for this thread.

 

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltjv8lmMKc1qegxf0o1_400.jpg

[Phil_musc]

I have been offline for a while and so now am only responding so please pardon the slowness of response. You are right, seeker, in that these things are seldom black and white issues. But in the US no one ever appears to want to take responsibility for their actions and the logical consequences that occur. Yes, people of northern European genetic backgrounds are programmed to store food as fat. Mother Nature has done them (well actually us, since I'm a part of this group) a bad turn. But we can make a life style choice to eat more than we really need. And this is quite common here. We are all genetically programmed for activity that should burn calories - for most of us, this takes the form of some sort of physical exercise. You actually have to seek it out by joining a gym or seriously playing some sort of sport, or walking, running, etc. Choosing not to do this is also a life style choice. I would also take issue with the posting above that somehow mentioned that poor people moving into wealthier neighborhoods actually lost weight. Maybe, not sure on that - I kinda doubt it. But I do know that as the US fast food culture is exported, heart disease and obesity has risen in the countries where this kind of eating has become popular. And as some people who were thin in the old country came to the US, it's amazing how suddenly they have gained weight. Sounds like another life style choice to me. As far as comparing obesity to being gay - I think that's an uninformed and somewhat offensive position to take. As a gay man I don't ever remember deciding at any point in my life that I was no longer interested in women and now I was going to be attracted to men. My question for the people who always say that being gay is a life style choice is "when did you choose to be straight?" Now it's true that we can all decide to be celibate (like the catholic church seems to advocate), but sex is a part of genetic programming - procreation IS the purpose of life. For gay people, we still have the hormonal urges for sex. As such that's a pretty tough genetic programming factor to say no to. We are not programmed for gluttony and obesity - it IS a choice. Grow up and be a real adult and take responsibility for your actions and their logical consequences, and don't make excuses as a hapless and helpless victim.

[seeker630]

I have been offline for a while and so now am only responding so please pardon the slowness of response. You are right, seeker, in that these things are seldom black and white issues. But in the US no one ever appears to want to take responsibility for their actions and the logical consequences that occur. Yes, people of northern European genetic backgrounds are programmed to store food as fat. Mother Nature has done them (well actually us, since I'm a part of this group) a bad turn. But we can make a life style choice to eat more than we really need. And this is quite common here. We are all genetically programmed for activity that should burn calories - for most of us, this takes the form of some sort of physical exercise. You actually have to seek it out by joining a gym or seriously playing some sort of sport, or walking, running, etc. Choosing not to do this is also a life style choice. I would also take issue with the posting above that somehow mentioned that poor people moving into wealthier neighborhoods actually lost weight. Maybe, not sure on that - I kinda doubt it. But I do know that as the US fast food culture is exported, heart disease and obesity has risen in the countries where this kind of eating has become popular. And as some people who were thin in the old country came to the US, it's amazing how suddenly they have gained weight. Sounds like another life style choice to me. As far as comparing obesity to being gay - I think that's an uninformed and somewhat offensive position to take. As a gay man I don't ever remember deciding at any point in my life that I was no longer interested in women and now I was going to be attracted to men. My question for the people who always say that being gay is a life style choice is "when did you choose to be straight?" Now it's true that we can all decide to be celibate (like the catholic church seems to advocate), but sex is a part of genetic programming - procreation IS the purpose of life. For gay people, we still have the hormonal urges for sex. As such that's a pretty tough genetic programming factor to say no to. We are not programmed for gluttony and obesity - it IS a choice. Grow up and be a real adult and take responsibility for your actions and their logical consequences, and don't make excuses as a hapless and helpless victim.

Phil, I agree with most of what you wrote. Most Americans eat too much and are less active than is healthy. But one point I wanted to make is that it is harder for some people to make those better lifestyle choices than it is for some others, whether because of genetics/metabolism, their environment/opportunities, or their upbringing/education.

[ErieBear]

Wading in with great trepidation here. Let me say right up front, I'm fat. I'm Biggest Loser fat. I beat myself up every single day and tell myself that I should be skinny. I struggle with going to the gym. Regardless of what people say, gyms are not friendly to fat people. Gyms are made for skinny or built guys. Yes, I take longer in the locker rooms. Do you want to know why? Because I'm still sweating. After I work out, I sweat for a good 30 minutes or so. I hate taking a shower, only to still be sweating when I'm done.

 

I eat too much. I go through too many fast food restaurants. I'm trying to stop. I've used food as an emotional crutch for 35 years. See, when I was a kid, I was molested. But the molesters don't go after the fat kids. So, I've used my weight as a tool to keep people away.

 

The only time I was ever "thin" was when I was suicidal. I was eating less than 800 calories a day. Lunch was often a can of tuna. Healthy? No. But everyone told me I was "doing so well." I lost over 150 pounds. Then I started breaking things. I spent several summers on crutches and over 2 full years. The weight came back with a vengeance.

 

Now, I'm working with a shrink who specializes in weight issues. And a personal trainer. They're helping some, but I'm still struggling big time every single day.

 

btw, Did you realize food addiction is the only addiction that you must still partake in? You can give up cigarettes and still live, you can give up booze and still live. But, a food addiction is the only addiction that you can have that you must still partake in that which is killing you.

 

I wish it were as easy as "making good choices". I really do. When I need is encouragement and help. Not derision and put downs.

 

The next time you see a fat person at the gym, instead of mocking them and laughing at them, how about saying hi, glad that you're here. You may be doing more than just a simple encouragement. You may be helping save their life.

[Lohengrin1979]

Wading in with great trepidation here. Let me say right up front, I'm fat. I'm Biggest Loser fat. I beat myself up every single day and tell myself that I should be skinny. I struggle with going to the gym. Regardless of what people say, gyms are not friendly to fat people. Gyms are made for skinny or built guys. Yes, I take longer in the locker rooms. Do you want to know why? Because I'm still sweating. After I work out, I sweat for a good 30 minutes or so. I hate taking a shower, only to still be sweating when I'm done.

 

I eat too much. I go through too many fast food restaurants. I'm trying to stop. I've used food as an emotional crutch for 35 years. See, when I was a kid, I was molested. But the molesters don't go after the fat kids. So, I've used my weight as a tool to keep people away.

 

The only time I was ever "thin" was when I was suicidal. I was eating less than 800 calories a day. Lunch was often a can of tuna. Healthy? No. But everyone told me I was "doing so well." I lost over 150 pounds. Then I started breaking things. I spent several summers on crutches and over 2 full years. The weight came back with a vengeance.

 

Now, I'm working with a shrink who specializes in weight issues. And a personal trainer. They're helping some, but I'm still struggling big time every single day.

 

btw, Did you realize food addiction is the only addiction that you must still partake in? You can give up cigarettes and still live, you can give up booze and still live. But, a food addiction is the only addiction that you can have that you must still partake in that which is killing you.

 

I wish it were as easy as "making good choices". I really do. When I need is encouragement and help. Not derision and put downs.

 

The next time you see a fat person at the gym, instead of mocking them and laughing at them, how about saying hi, glad that you're here. You may be doing more than just a simple encouragement. You may be helping save their life.

 

A courageous post, Eriebear, and much appreciated. I've been there man, and it gets better. Never as fast as we want it to but no matter how many times you fall off that wagon, the key is to get right back up on it. People who have never been fat don't get how hard it is. They just get to be smug. Best of luck to you, man, and welcome to the boards.

 

Regards,

Lohengrin1979

[bigvalboy]

Hey EB, not sure where to start here, except perhaps to say that your struggle is certainly shared by millions of people in this country. I think you are on the right track, and I only can pray that you find the courage and the will to continue. An addiction in any form is a debilitating cycle to break. I have had my share of battles with numerous addictions throughout my life and I can say with a great deal of soberness that few if any will truly understand your battles. You have to do this for you and nobody else. I would like to say two more things. First of all I am of offficial of senior citizen status and work out 6 days a week at least an hour each time. I started by necessity not by choice. Staying in shape is the single most difficult and time consuming thing that I have ever done, but it is worth every second that I spend doing it. Keep at it!! And the second thing I would like to say is that at my gym at least there are, yes alot of buff guys, however, there are many that are seriously overweight. I know most of these guys in the gym and NEVER have I heard a negative comment or look of disgust from any of them. We are all there for a common purpose and that is to get in shape and maintain a healthy lifestyle. If you are getting negative reactions from people at your gym, CHANGE GYMS!! Good luck to you always and feel free to pm me anytime you need to vent. Warm Regards,BVB

[Toulouse]

ErieBear, Thanks for your post. Like you, very few people want to be obese and most would love to be able to change. That process needs our support and encouragement, not criticism and ridicule. EB, welcome to our forum and congratulations on taking those difficult first steps towards a healthier life. Please keep us posted on your progress.

[leigh.bess.toad]

EB - thank you for your post. It is an important message. I do try to offer words of encouragement to people who are in the gym working hard to make changes in their life. I'm always inspired to push myself just a bit harder when I see people such as yourself in there working hard. I'd rather see that than the roidheads who walk around the gym talking and posing and never seemingly doing anything.

 

Good luck.

[gcursor]

Wow

 

That was a great posting ErieBear. Some of your ideas definitely resonated with me. I don't recall seeing you post much on the forum but I wish that you would. Your views might add some interesting new insights to the forum.

 

Gcursor

 

Wading in with great trepidation here. Let me say right up front, I'm fat. I'm Biggest Loser fat. I beat myself up every single day and tell myself that I should be skinny. I struggle with going to the gym. Regardless of what people say, gyms are not friendly to fat people. Gyms are made for skinny or built guys. Yes, I take longer in the locker rooms. Do you want to know why? Because I'm still sweating. After I work out, I sweat for a good 30 minutes or so. I hate taking a shower, only to still be sweating when I'm done.

 

I eat too much. I go through too many fast food restaurants. I'm trying to stop. I've used food as an emotional crutch for 35 years. See, when I was a kid, I was molested. But the molesters don't go after the fat kids. So, I've used my weight as a tool to keep people away.

 

The only time I was ever "thin" was when I was suicidal. I was eating less than 800 calories a day. Lunch was often a can of tuna. Healthy? No. But everyone told me I was "doing so well." I lost over 150 pounds. Then I started breaking things. I spent several summers on crutches and over 2 full years. The weight came back with a vengeance.

 

Now, I'm working with a shrink who specializes in weight issues. And a personal trainer. They're helping some, but I'm still struggling big time every single day.

 

btw, Did you realize food addiction is the only addiction that you must still partake in? You can give up cigarettes and still live, you can give up booze and still live. But, a food addiction is the only addiction that you can have that you must still partake in that which is killing you.

 

I wish it were as easy as "making good choices". I really do. When I need is encouragement and help. Not derision and put downs.

 

The next time you see a fat person at the gym, instead of mocking them and laughing at them, how about saying hi, glad that you're here. You may be doing more than just a simple encouragement. You may be helping save their life.

[ErieBear]

That was a great posting ErieBear. Some of your ideas definitely resonated with me. I don't recall seeing you post much on the forum but I wish that you would. Your views might add some interesting new insights to the forum.

 

Gcursor

 

Thanks for the compliments. Honestly, I generally don't post much online. It's too easy for things to get taken out of context, harsh words exchanged, etc. My main goal in life is to build people up and encourage them and I find that when I post a lot on on-line forums, I get sucked into all the drama involved. I was actually extremely hesitant about even posting on this thread, but after reading some of the "anti-fat people" remarks, I felt like I needed to speak up.

[+ Gar1eth]

The Other Side Of Fat

 

I'll give another perspective on being fat. I am 50 years old. I am 5'8. And I weigh about 240 pounds. I, fortunately, was never molested as far as I can remember. I was very skinny- like a prisoner of war- until about the age of 5 or 6. My mother attributes my weight gain to having my tonsils out. Suddenly I could eat without pain. Right after my tonsils were out, I was in 1st grade and I learned to read. I found my brother's discarded comic books in the garage ( a collection of 300 or so), and I was off to the races. I began to read ( or watch TV) all the time. My family wasn't particularly athletic, and my father traveled a lot, so I didn't play a lot of sports with him. And to tell the truth, I really just wanted to sit inside and read.

 

By the age of 9 or 10, I was around 70 to 80 pounds. I was the second heaviest child in class. The heaviest guy, who went on to play high school and college football, weighed 103. He was a pound less than our teacher.

 

I was lucky enough to loses my weight during puberty. I was around 125 to 140 from the ages of 16 to 28. But I've been packing the weight since then. My problems include extremely stressful job, stressful life ( hating being gay is not an easy way to live), lack of friends- so I sit around with nothing to do and read- or nowadays look at escort sites).

 

I have gone to the gym for short periods before. So Rockhard won't think I'm depraved- I've never been a member of a gay gym. So I've never come across anyone having sex at a gym. I will admit to staring at the good looking guys- but I'm only human- and I hope it hasn't been obvious. My problem at the gym is that no matter how long I go it all hurts. It never gets any easier. I almost always end up with a headache. And if I decrease the intensity to where I won't get a headache-I'll never get anything accomplished. Also my knees hurt so I can't do the elliptical. I have tried walking around the neighborhood, but it causes my ankles to hurt. I can't bicycle because of my prostate, and swimming is out of the question. I am really not sure what to do. I've worked with trainers, but I still have the same problems. I also have a lack of 'stick- to-it-ness' not just in this area of life but in all areas. The only thing I've managed to remain constant in over the years is my dislike of being gay. I really don't know what to do.

 

Gman

[Phil_musc]

ER, I read your first posting on this thread several hours ago while having my coffee and I must say that somethings raised a red flag to me - it seemed almost a parody of a post about weight. I smiled when I read your statement about going to too many fast food places - the first time I've read online anyone claiming an addiction to eating at McDonald's. And then to continue within the same paragraph about having been molested as a child - well, it was starting to seem like a put-on to me. Furthermore, if any nutritionist put you on an 800 calorie per day diet, you should be considering legal action for some sort of malpractice. You are also not the first person to claim that gyms are not comfortable for fat people and that you imagine that the gym-goers are putting you down with nasty comments. I have been a gym-goer for my entire adult life (which at this point is quite some time - more years than I would comfortably admit to) and in all that time I have heard very little negativity expressed towards fat people. Actually most people are so pre-occupied with their own workouts and bodies that they won't have anything to say about someone else. So often I've heard people express the idea that gyms are for people who are already in shape. I think the fallacy there is similar to people who won't go to church because they think people will be talking about them. Actually, I think it's best if you view the gym as a workshop for the body and the church as a workshop for your soul (whatever that may mean to you) and that everyone is a work in progress.

 

But then I saw your second posting here and I think my initial reaction was wrong - you are sincere and not being tongue in cheek. While I do stick by my earlier position that being heavy is generally a lifestyle choice, please know that I applaud your efforts at trying to make healthy changes in your life and I think you are to be congratulated on trying to implement these changes. Don't worry about what others may be thinking at the gym (as I said before, they are most likely more concerned with their own issues rather than yours), stick to your program and stay positive and focused. You CAN make changes in your life. Is it easy? Probably not. Is it harder or more difficult for some than others? Probably yes - as a person of northern European heritage, we are genetically programmed to store fat for the long cold winters. But that doesn't mean that we can't do something about it. The point you make about food as an addiction is interesting (and accurate - it is one thing that we must partake of to live). I'm wondering what kind of parallels might also exist for sexual addiction.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress - even if it seems that some of us are a bit quirky and opinionated (and sometimes a bit too eager to share those opinions!), I'm pretty sure that no one here wishes you anything but success in your efforts. But by the same token, I for one won't let you slide with self indulgence. Life is not easy, but neither is it impossible with challenges. And a lot of us face our own issues and challenges. Please know that we are all here and rooting for you.

[bigvalboy]

I'll give another perspective on being fat. I am 50 years old. I am 5'8. And I weigh about 240 pounds. I, fortunately, was never molested as far as I can remember. I was very skinny- like a prisoner of war- until about the age of 5 or 6. My mother attributes my weight gain to having my tonsils out. Suddenly I could eat without pain. Right after my tonsils were out, I was in 1st grade and I learned to read. I found my brother's discarded comic books in the garage ( a collection of 300 or so), and I was off to the races. I began to read ( or watch TV) all the time. My family wasn't particularly athletic, and my father traveled a lot, so I didn't play a lot of sports with him. And to tell the truth, I really just wanted to sit inside and read.

 

By the age of 9 or 10, I was around 70 to 80 pounds. I was the second heaviest child in class. The heaviest guy, who went on to play high school and college football, weighed 103. He was a pound less than our teacher.

 

I was lucky enough to loses my weight during puberty. I was around 125 to 140 from the ages of 16 to 28. But I've been packing the weight since then. My problems include extremely stressful job, stressful life ( hating being gay is not an easy way to live), lack of friends- so I sit around with nothing to do and read- or nowadays look at escort sites).

 

I have gone to the gym for short periods before. So Rockhard won't think I'm depraved- I've never been a member of a gay gym. So I've never come across anyone having sex at a gym. I will admit to staring at the good looking guys- but I'm only human- and I hope it hasn't been obvious. My problem at the gym is that no matter how long I go it all hurts. It never gets any easier. I almost always end up with a headache. And if I decrease the intensity to where I won't get a headache-I'll never get anything accomplished. Also my knees hurt so I can't do the elliptical. I have tried walking around the neighborhood, but it causes my ankles to hurt. I can't bicycle because of my prostate, and swimming is out of the question. I am really not sure what to do. I've worked with trainers, but I still have the same problems. I also have a lack of 'stick- to-it-ness' not just in this area of life but in all areas. The only thing I've managed to remain constant in over the years is my dislike of being gay. I really don't know what to do.

 

Gman

 

Dear Gman, there are so many things that you and others have posted here that are very touching personal stories of your struggles that you have with so many issues in your life. I am not a professional and not trained on any level, I am just a guy who feels a need to put in my 2 cents. You said one thing that I feel is very telling about your situation, and that is when you said you lack a certain "stick-to-it-ness". NOTHING in life worth attaining comes without a struggle. I know guys at the gym that have been working out for 20-30 years and still go almost everyday. At your height and weight almost anything in the gym that you attempt will be very difficult at first. I you try the elliptical machine, try getting on it for 1 min. that's it just 1 min. If you walk, try walking 1/2 block and then just stop. AND then the next time go for 1 1/2 mins. that's it. and then try walking three houses past the last placed you stopped. I think you have to make this life style change in baby steps. If you feel uncomfortable at your gym, find one that is more supportive of you. So many guys think that going to the gym they will see instant results, that is absolutely not true. sit down and set realistic gaols for yourself. Simple enough so that there isn't anyway you cannot accomplish at least one good thing for that day.

 

And lastly, remember that weight loss is 90% diet. I know that is the unfortunate truth. If you bust your rear walking and going to the gym and then go home and fill yourself with poor choices in your diet, then yes you will fail. Getting in shape and losing weight is probably the single most difficult thing that you will ever do your life. I WISH YOU ONLY THE BEST OF LUCK GMAN!! you can pm anytime if you have a question, need advice or just want to talk. I will email you my number if you would like that.

 

Best to you always, BVB

[jjkrkwood]

Gman, your honest post touched my heart, as I too have always been inclined to be on the heavy side, and have worked extremely hard to control my weight over the years. Obviously, as I get older, its much harder as everything becomes more difficult due to the changes your body goes thru as you age. I can sympathize with your ordeal. However, I took 1 particular sentence out of context from your post because I feel the issue is the crux of your problem. I am in no way being judgemental, only trying to offer my perspective from my own life experiences. The following sentence you used really gave me insight: The only thing I've managed to remain constant in over the years is my dislike of being gay. I really don't know what to do. . I have always believed that your first obligation is to Yourself, and to be happy with who you are. If you are at peace with your own being, other things will usually fall into place. Obviously I dont know your life experiences or what caused you to feel the way you do about your "gayness", but I CAN tell you that you waould find an easier road ahead of you if you "embraced" being gay and saw all the good and positive things it can offer you, rather than dwelling on the negative connotations you have placed on it. Self-realization is a process which begins by accepting who and what you are and then striving to be the best at it... I am in no way minimizing what "you feel", or the road you have traveled, but perhaps its time to take a step back and accept there are others options available for you. God bless and God speed.... - JJ

[dane michaels]

Look to whats inside. That is what it will always boil down to. Flesh will always break down and we will never look like Gods (if ever any of us have) throughout our lives. It is what's instilled in us as children and who we build ourselves to be that speaks well beyond our flesh... So, walk tall in knowing you. For the greatness of you and the faults. Were all some sort of amazing, its up to us to see that.

[seeker630]

Look to whats inside. That is what it will always boil down to. Flesh will always break down and we will never look like Gods (if ever any of us have) throughout our lives. It is what's instilled in us as children and who we build ourselves to be that speaks well beyond our flesh... So, walk tall in knowing you. For the greatness of you and the faults. We're all some sort of amazing, its up to us to see that.

 

Great!