Organ meats

[AdamSmith]

So in belated repentance for having semi-hijacked the worthy classical-YouTube thread of late, herewith a dedicated thread for us pipe-organ aficionados. (OK, fanatics. OK, nut-cases. Free-standing, of course. The case, that is. )

 

Anyway, to seed the topic, a few random proposals. Feel free to Bombarde me with disagreements about any or all:

 

• All praise for E. Power Biggs's advocacy of tracker action, and return to instrument historic authenticity in general (continuing the honorable tradition inaugurated by Albert Schweitzer, in iconoclastic opposition to the mad rush to electric action then in its heyday, which 'updating' trend led to the ruin of numerous irreplaceable old instruments). And hail to Biggs for commissioning the first Flentrop instrument in America (Busch Hall, Harvard, '59). But 20 demerits for any least syllable hinting approval of Biggs’s performance technique. In the end he remained, after all, the electrical engineer he began as. (Now, his recordings of Scott Joplin on the pedal harpsichord are another thing entirely – the very notion some kind of bizarre genius. Best experienced under the influence of a moderate dose of one’s preferred hallucinogen.)

 

• 100 demerits for any mention of that P.T. Barnum of organ performance known as Virgil Fox.

 

• I too love listening to recordings of that monstrosity the Wanamaker organ. But the reality principle requires acknowledging that the thing is sort of like Long Dong Silver -- remarkable but, in the end, more of a novelty than anything else. The San Simeon of organs, as it were. (That said, thanks for the reference to the Jongen organ symphony. I will assuredly check it out.)

 

• In the pantheon of symphonic works featuring the organ, Saint-Saens’ Organ Symphony is at once exhilarating, sublime, yet in the end rather superficial and given over to not much more than auditory spectacle. On its first performance, some French critic was heard to exclaim, ‘Voila le Beethoven de la France!’ Well, exactly. (That is of course to knock the French, not the divine Ludwig van.) Best recording may be Charles Munch leading the Boston Symphony Orchestra, one Berg Zamkochian on organ.

 

• Take part, if you have not, in an orgelkral (organ crawl) sometime. E.g., slithering down into the basement to inspect the 747-engine-like blower of a 1940s-vintage Aeolian-Skinner organ, the wind trunk not the 8x8-inch or so wooden channel of a hand-pumped (though still cathedral-blasting) 1700s instrument, but rather a 4-foot-diameter concrete pipe engineered to contain the wind pressure of a low-grade hurricane. (Had this trend in organ building not eventually given way to the historic-instrument revival, no doubt Caterpillar and John Deere would today command significant organ market share.) Then climbing a dubious, rickety 12-foot ladder to peer into the opened backside of the topmost division of a classical tracker instrument; those with severe vertigo had best take a pass, as I discovered only once teetering dizzily at the top of the ladder, alarmingly near the groin vaulting of the cathedral's ceiling. DON'T LOOK DOWN.

 

• Quiz: When one of the smaller flue pipes proves to be out of tune for whatever reason (usually dust, mouse droppings, etc.) during your precious limited practice time, proper maintenance technique is to: (A) Carefully lift the pipe out of the wind chest, wearing white gloves, and carry it to the maintenance tech’s shop. (B) Twist the nuisance out of the wind chest, sneak a guilty look around to be sure no one sees, then blow into the toe hole to clean out whatever is fucking it up. Your saliva won’t cause any corrosion for several years at least. (Of course the pipe will sound when you blow, alerting all and sundry to your malfeasance. So best to pocket it and sneak out to your car before pulling this stunt.) © Stuff some cotton into the top of the offending pipe to stop the fool thing from sounding at all. (No kidding. I have actually seen an organ with a number of pipes treated just this way.)

 

Any other random organ-mania thoughts to share?

 

… Swell to Great!

[leigh.bess.toad]

I'm sorry Adam, but you might as well go out and buy a whole truck load of demerits for me. For I love the showman. While I do love and am forever grateful for what Biggs did, Fox simply was fun to watch for me. Over the top? Hell,yes? But I would have given anything to have seen him at Riverside Church. That must have been a hoot. So how about a fwe thousand demerits for my appreciation for the talent that he had?

 

As far as the Wannamaker, I have never had the privilege of getting to hear it in person. I would love to. Yes it's the trick pony of organs. But still, you couldn't have pulled off the Hallelujah Chorus in the Random Act of Culture a couple of months ago without it. And it does introduce people to the organ who would never EVER hear a pipe organ as opposed to the electronic monstrosities most people know.

 

And I can't find it now, but somewhere out on Youtube there was a brief clip where they let loose with the 32' Bombarde. OMG. What a sound. I loved it. I'm surpised the china survived without crashing to the floor.

 

While I will admit to being nowhere near the organ afficienado that you are, there is precious little as thrilling to be standing in a space as an organ lets loose it's full power. I was at Bruton Parrish Church in Williamsburg a few weeks ago at a concert. And the organist never really let go of the organ. It was still thrilling but I could tell they were holding a lot back. And they are raising money to replace the organ because they believe it is too big for the space. I guess with male organs I'm not but with pipe organs I really am a size queen. The bigger the better I want the glass shattering, the ear drums screaming for mercy. Full power. It is a rush to be sitting at the console of even a small to medium sized pipe organ. It has been far too long since I have played. But I remember the first time and the thrill that it created.

[uwsman2]

And for those of us unrepentant Virgil Fox admirers, there's the new "Virgil" who threatens to become even bigger than Fox, because he's both openly gay and very, very cute - Cameron Carpenter. Check out his youtube videos.

[+ deej]

You may (or may not) appreciate the Khachaturian Symphony Nr. 3 (for orchestra, organ and 15 antiphonal trumpets).

 

It's a little Virgil Fox-ish (which is why I suspect you won't like it) but it is a showpiece for organ with orchestra. Although the lengthy and note-y cadenza in the middle goes on *forever* and you almost want to cheer when it gets interrupted by the trumpets signaling the impending arrival of the orchestra.

 

I've only ever heard one recording, and that's probably enough.

[leigh.bess.toad]

And for those of us unrepentant Virgil Fox admirers, there's the new "Virgil" who threatens to become even bigger than Fox, because he's both openly gay and very, very cute - Cameron Carpenter. Check out his youtube videos.

 

I'll give you cute. I'll take your word for gay. But he's no Virgil either. I'll give him this -- he does have technique -- especially the footwork is phenomenal. But stylistically it's just wrong to my ears. I'm sorry, but as far as my Bach, I love the show, but the music itself must be played stylistically correct and for the most part Virgil did that. For my Bach I want heart and fire but purity of style (and yes, you can have it all). The Tocata and Fugue with Cameron is just so completely off base stylistically I don't even know where to begin. Of course, that's the beauty of Bach, is you can argue about it til you're blue in the face with 20 other people with 20 different interpretations. But I think Cameron's is so far outside the accepted performance practices of the time to render it more as Cameron Carpenter's T&F, not JSBach's T&F. Just MHO.

[leigh.bess.toad]

So in belated repentance for having semi-hijacked the worthy classical-YouTube thread of late, herewith a dedicated thread for us pipe-organ aficionados. (OK, fanatics. OK, nut-cases. Free-standing, of course. The case, that is. )

 

Anyway, to seed the topic, a few random proposals. Feel free to Bombarde me with disagreements about any or all:

 

• All praise for E. Power Biggs's advocacy of tracker action, and return to instrument historic authenticity in general (continuing the honorable tradition inaugurated by Albert Schweitzer, in iconoclastic opposition to the mad rush to electric action then in its heyday, which 'updating' trend led to the ruin of numerous irreplaceable old instruments). And hail to Biggs for commissioning the first Flentrop instrument in America (Busch Hall, Harvard, '59). But 20 demerits for any least syllable hinting approval of Biggs’s performance technique. In the end he remained, after all, the electrical engineer he began as. (Now, his recordings of Scott Joplin on the pedal harpsichord are another thing entirely – the very notion some kind of bizarre genius. Best experienced under the influence of a moderate dose of one’s preferred hallucinogen.)

 

It has been a while since I've listened to Bigg's recordings but from what I remembered from my youth he was not nearly as far off as you portray. One album sticks with me -- where he plays Bach at the Thomaskirche.

But I also remember the other album you're talking aobut -- the Scott Joplin on the harpsichord. Now that was really something that just blew me away. The Biggs at Thomaskirche I remembered. The Biggs/Joplin I forgot. But I enjoyed both. Can I have some more demerits. I'm going to knit them into a sweater for winter.

[whipped guy]

Organs, Pedals, etc.

 

It has been a while since I've listened to Bigg's recordings but from what I remembered from my youth he was not nearly as far off as you portray.

I am really not an organ aficionado... and other than my piano teacher having a Hammond Organ and playing a simple Bach prelude or two on it I have not had much experience playing the organ. Still, when I was a kid E. Power was the organist that one always heard on the radio... so I just assumed that was the way things should go. I recall listening to his recording of the Mozart's 17 Organ/Epistle/Church Sonatas and loving every minute of it. Then years later I hear that his approach was all wrong... Of course back then the Handel/Harty Water Music was the norm and today I would not give it the time of day... Heck being conditioned to the Period Performance Practice/Original Instruments artists of today a lot of what was considered "authentic" back then sounds all wrong to me these days. So it would be interesting to hear the now discredited Biggs playing these pieces today... not to mention a few other of his recordings. Something tells me I would not like the approach... but then again they might just prove to be guilty pleasures... as I say it would be interesting.

 

Also, regarding organs... It is well known that I am not a Boston Red Sox fan... but there is something about the sound of the organ at Fenway Park that is so appealing in a carousel sort of way...

 

As for the pedal harpsichord... another story all together! It reminds me of Wanda Landowska's Pleyel Harpsichord of years earlier... Together they are instruments that Bach and Company would hardly recognize! Still... "better than Bach on a piano"... as Albert Schweitzer remarked after hearing Landowska's instrument in the Italian Concerto.

[leigh.bess.toad]

Hey WG -- Thanks for bringing up another name from the past. I'd completely forgotten about Wanda Landowska. Those were some pretty remarkable recordings as well.

[uwsman2]

SONY has been very neglectful of the Biggs legacy, as few of his great recordings have been reissued on CD. One in particular that I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for is the Rheinberger Organ Concerti. The LP he made of the two concerti with Maurice Peress conducting a contract orchestra of freelancers for Columbia was totally marvelous, although, of course, suffering from the afflictions that all Columbia LPs suffered - poor mastering to disc and inner groove distortion, a really big problem with a grand concerto for organ and orchestra. There have been several CD recordings of these pieces -- I'm eagerly awaiting the release of a new set on MDG -- but it would be totally splendid if SONY would get off the stick and give us a good digital release of the old Biggs/Peress recordings.

[+ Charlie]

The Wanamaker organ has recently been fully refurbished, after falling into serious disrepair over the years. I think I mentioned elsewhere not long ago that I used to stop into the department store often in the 1960s and 70s to listen to the free lunchtime concerts, and the Christmas shows were pretty spectacular. Virgil Fox was quite flamboyant in person, whereas E. Power Biggs was very buttoned up; however, I knew his step-daughter, who said he looked formidable, like a bank president, but was actually very sweet.

[AdamSmith]

Coincidence! The Jongen 'Symphonie Concertante' recommended by Diverdan in the earlier thread, performed on the Wanamaker organ, is at this moment streaming on http://www.organlive.com -- a pleasure. Thanks again for the rec.

 

To clarify my less than kind words about Biggs's performance style, I didn't mean to knock his historical accuracy. He led the way, certainly in America, in returning not only to more authentic instruments but also to historically appropriate registrations as well as keyboard technique. What I meant to critique was his pure musicianship. There are easily a dozen organists readily available on the music store shelves (how archaic!) who are far better interpreters than he, and fully as historically informed: Michel Chapuis (my god, as previously noted), Michael Murray, Helmut Walcha, Lionel Rogg, Wolfgang Rübsam, Daniel Chorzempa, ... And a whole new generation trained by such as Chapuis -- for instance http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvain_Ciaravolo, maybe the best living performer of de Grigny, Couperin, Clerambault and that crowd, as well as Buxtehude and contemporaries (excepting Chapuis ).

 

To take one example, compare Biggs's performance of Bach's Toccata in F Major:

 

...with that of Chapuis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3gsIVqDxRY

 

To me, this is a typical Biggs performance -- slow, lumbering, prosaic. Nothing especially wrong with it; just that, by contrast, Chapuis makes the piece absolutely sing.

 

(This Biggs performance is, though, interesting in that he is playing the 4 antiphonal organs of the Cathedral of Freiburg simultaneously from a central console. I have this disc in vinyl; it's a quadrophonic recording which, whatever I think lacking in Biggs's musicianship, is spectacular to hear on a quadrophonic stereo setup.)

 

(But this choice of instrument isn't the reason for his performance style here: his recording of the same piece on the Busch-Reisinger Flentrop is, if anything, even more wooden and, in fact, clumsy-sounding. Ditto with such as his laborious struggle to get through the long, devilishly difficult pedal passage early in the Bach Toccata, Adagio & Fugue in C Major.)

[whipped guy]

To clarify my less than kind words about Biggs's performance style, I didn't mean to knock his historical accuracy.... What I meant to critique was his pure musicianship. ... his recording of the same piece on the Busch-Reisinger Flentrop is, if anything, even more wooden and, in fact, clumsy-sounding. Ditto with such as his laborious struggle to get through the long, devilishly difficult pedal passage early in the Bach Toccata, Adagio & Fugue in C Major.)

Form what I have read recently about Biggs that seems to be the consensus. That he really was not very good by certain standards. (I think that I even remember reading that he didn't care if he hit a few clunkers along he way.) However, since I have not heard any of his work recently I really would like to revisit some of those performances... all I need is time... However, I am going to guess that I might just be disappointed from not only in his musicianship, but also in his non HIP (historically informed practice) approach as well... at least by today's HIP standards.

[leigh.bess.toad]

But AS -- does that mean I'm not going to be getting my demerits. How ever will I finish my sweater I'm knitting if I don't get my full quota? :)

[Diverdan]

Biggs may not be the greatest organist that ever lived, but he did a lot to get a lot of non-musicians interested in classical organ music. The same can be said for Virgil Fox. Both had their limitations, but both also had a desire to introduce classical organ music to the "masses". I have several of their old recordings and while enjoyable, certainly do not compare to some of the others that have been mentioned in this thread. One of my very favorites is Michael Murray, and his recording of the Jongen Symphonie Concertante with the San Francisco is incredible. I had the privledge of hearing him with the SFS play that piece, and he brought down the house. I have about 100 CDs of classical organ, so will start looking for my favorites and will share for those other organ nuts who post here!

DD

[AdamSmith]

But AS -- does that mean I'm not going to be getting my demerits. How ever will I finish my sweater I'm knitting if I don't get my full quota? :)

 

Just keep praising Mr. Fox.

[AdamSmith]

Biggs may not be the greatest organist that ever lived, but he did a lot to get a lot of non-musicians interested in classical organ music. The same can be said for Virgil Fox. Both had their limitations, but both also had a desire to introduce classical organ music to the "masses".

 

Absolutely. My cracks about their performance styles in no way takes away from all the good they did in tirelessly bringing the pipes to the people.

 

One of my very favorites is Michael Murray

 

Yes! A masterful interpreter, and with an amazing range of repertoire. For instance, excepting only the late, truly great Jeanne Demessieux, Murray may be the best performer of Franck's organ music on record. Franck's apocalyptic 'Final' can be a mass of unintelligible sound in the hands of any but the most gifted. And then the Cavaillé-Coll instruments for which Franck composed seem almost to compel performers into sins of over-registration, something that both Demessieux and Murray avoid.

 

... Symposium on the Barker lever next?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristide_Cavaillé-Coll

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barker_lever

[leigh.bess.toad]

Just keep praising Mr. Fox.

 

Yeah Mr. Fox

Yeah Mr. Fox

Yeah Mr. Fox

Yeah Mr. Fox

 

do that enough, and I might even be able to knit a muffler to go with it

[OneFinger]

Living in Salt Lake City I have the opportunity to hear organ concerts at the Mormon Tabernacle (seats 10,000 people) and the Mormon Conference Center (seats 20,000 people).

 

My favorite organist at these two facilities is Richard Elliot. Here are some of his music.

 

From a Christmas concert at the Conference Center.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbbIoevbosw

 

 

Improvisation on "Hymn to Joy" at the Mormon Tabernacle.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPXD-AKqOO8

 

 

"Go Tell It on the Mountain". This is my favorite and I was in the audience for this taping at the Conference Center.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1YUASvFXyc

[Diverdan]

Adam,

Thanks so much for those links. I enjoyed reading them and it is pushing me to get back to my collection, pick out my favorites and comments on the organs I enjoy... (no pun intended!)...

[Diverdan]

One Finger,

While not a Morman, I do so enjoy Mr. Elliott, and thanks too for the links to some of his great performances. The footwork that he accomplishes on Go Tell It On The Mountain is nothing short of an athletic performance! I do have a couple of his recordings and also some of the Christmas Recordings. I have only been to SLC once when I was able to hear a concert, but I think that was before Mr. Elliott became the organist. I envy you being in SLC and being able to enjoy the concerts on a regular basis. Thanks again for sharing those links.

DD

[instudiocity]

Living in Salt Lake City I have the opportunity to hear organ concerts at the Mormon Tabernacle (seats 10,000 people) and the Mormon Conference Center (seats 20,000 people).

 

My favorite organist at these two facilities is Richard Elliot. Here are some of his music.

Thanks, O F. I really enjoy listening to concerts in the Tabernacle. I think of it as the Carnegie Hall of the West. The acoustics are incredible. I was taken aback a little with your 'seating 10,000' number, because I see it as a 'small venue'. I checked the stats and it seats 7,000 including choir area and gallery (balcony). Seems like you'd need a shoe horn to get that many butts in there.

 

The Mormon church has some wonderful and historical architecture from the mid-1800's around Utah. I find the temple in Vernal to be absolutely beautiful, although I'd never be allowed inside.

[gp0560]

Bach Organ Performance + Score

 

I was looking on YouTube for performances of Bach BWV 572, Fantasia in G major, and found this:

 

 

The links in the right-hand column will take you to more clips of performance + score.

[gp0560]

To those in the know about performers of Bach organ music, who do you think gives the best interpretation of J.S. Bach - BWV 572 - Fantasia G-dur / G major?

[AdamSmith]

Thx for the Elliott references. Again, a pleasure!

 

... Separately, here one of many links to creditable performances of Bach's absurdly difficult 'Wedge' fugue in E minor, and the prelude preceding. One of the most, if not THE most, profound pieces in the Western literature. I melt into air every time I hear it.

 

[video=youtube;ouJ3O2T4ZI0]

[AdamSmith]

To those in the know about performers of Bach organ music, who do you think gives the best interpretation of J.S. Bach - BWV 572 - Fantasia G-dur / G major?

 

This performance by the formidable Ton Koopman might make it into the running. You think?

 

[video=youtube;jc9Dtu1rLCk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc9Dtu1rLCk