Retirement

[Guest Thunderbuns]

Not sure if this should be posted here or in Escorts south of the USA.

 

However - here goes.

 

A friend of mine will retire later this year. Unfortunately he will not have a large pension - about $2500 Canadian. And from the sale of his home here he will presumably have enough money to buy a home where he chooses to live. He wants to live in a warmer climate and where his money will go the farthest. He had always talked about Greece.

 

Lately - due to the posts on this board about Brazil & Argentina, I have been telling him he should explore the possibility of moving to South America.

 

So if Trilingual or anyone else with the knowledge could answer these questions, if would be very helpful.

 

1: How much would one have to pay for a small house in (a) Brazil and (b) Argentina? I know prices will vary depending on location, so I guess we are talking about a decent area in a medium to large city.

 

2: Are condominium apartments available as well and approx how much do they cost.

 

3: His money converted to Brazilian would be about 5000/mo and in Argentina, about 6000/mo - according to the currency converters on the internet. Can one live comfortably on this kind of money and will it also enable one to run a car?

 

4: How well would a Canadian be accepted by the locals as a permanent resident? He can't speak the language but says he is willing to learn.

 

I think it would be great if he decided to move there - always a free home away from home for me :-) - but then again a Greek island wouldn't be all that bad either!

 

Any information will be greatfully recieved.

 

Thunderbuns

[Boston Guy]

TB:

 

This is sort of on-point and off-point, in terms of your question.

 

I'd recommend that you suggest to your friend that he seriously consider Costa Rica as one of the options he is considering.

 

I haven't been there and so cannot speak from personal experience. However, others whose opinion I value highly have been and they claim that it's one of the best retirement spots in all of the Americas.

 

Evidently, Costa Rica is great example of a beautiful country with a stable government and a stable economy and one that is very welcoming to retirees.

 

One pertinent link might be:

 

http://www.infocostarica.com/interactive/sitemap.html

 

Perhapts others here might be able to provide more info on Costa Rica as a retirement option.

 

BG

[Chuck50]

NOt to mention I bet they know English better. MY sister's HUsband was born there and they love it. It is on of the best kept sercrets

[+ glutes]

I haven't been to Brazil, but hope to shortly. I have been to Argentina (grossly expensive 3 years ago, very culturally advanced, very handsome people). Costa Rica I've been to twice, he should check out the Manuel Antonio area on the Pacific Ocean side. Many people speak English, and the health care is good. I did look at real-estate for purchase, there were NO bargains - although long - term rental maybe the best option. Manuel Antonio is also the most gay friendly and active:-)

Wish your Canadian friend good luck, e-mail me should you need further.

[+ Charlie]

Since I am in a similar situation to your friend, I have given this issue a lot of thought. There is much more to be considered than just the average cost of living.

 

Has your friend ever been to these places? Not only the climate is different from Canada: the Latin culture is very different. If he has no firsthand experience with it, he should certainly go for a long visit before making any commitment. Since you say he doesn't know the languages, I'll bet he really isn't very familiar with the culture and doesn't even know if he will be comfortable there.

 

Has he ever lived abroad? I have lived in several countries, and I can tell you that without considerable fluency in the language, he will never really fit in. Learning a new language is very difficult for someone his age, unless he is already used to learning other languages; more than likely, he will acquire only the rudiments, but not enough to read local publications, understand much of what he hears on TV, etc., or carry on a conversation on a serious subject. Something as simple as trying to arrange for telephone service or get one's computer hooked up can be a nightmare for someone who doesn't know the local customs and doesn't have the vocabulary to understand what to do. He may be able to afford a car, but can he get a driver's license and insurance? Can he deal with venal police who stop him and shake him down? Some countries don't even allow foreigners to drive rental cars.

 

What sort of social life does he expect? Gay life in 3rd world countries is often very differently structured than it is in Europe and North America. The only kind of social circles that he might find recognizable are among the upper class, to which he would not have entree because of his age and relative poverty. If he expects to socialize with the local Canadian/American expatriate community, he will probably find it is mostly rather conservative heterosexual couples.

 

What about health care? As a Canadian, he is accustomed to socialized medicine, but in Latin America decent health care is expensive and sometimes hard to find. Being hospitalized in a place where you can't communicate effectively with the staff is extremely stressful in itself. A few trips to Canada to get necessary medical care could wipe out the financial advantage of living in Brazil. If he takes regular medications, as most older people eventually do, they may not be available locally, or may be quite expensive. A friend of mine retired to Portugal because he could live cheaply, but when he developed AIDS symptoms, the local medical community didn't want to deal with him, the pharmacies didn't have the necessary drugs, and his social support circle dissolved.

 

What about other expenses? Regular trips back to Canada to visit family or cure homesickness will not be cheap. Shipping his precious possessions to his new home by air is also expensive, and will they arrive safely? I know from bitter experience that things vanish without a trace from Latin American airports, and try dealing with police who suddenly can't speak English, not to mention your insurance co. thousands of miles away. Although violent crime rates may be low, Anglos are usually perceived as having possessions worth stealing, and property crimes are common; it is not irrational paranoia that causes the wealthy in most of those countries to live in virtual fortresses.

 

All in all, I think it takes a special kind of person to be happy in that sort of retirement situation--if that is your friend, more power to him.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>All in all, I think it takes a special kind of person to be

>happy in that sort of retirement situation--if that is your

>friend, more power to him.

 

Thank you for your thoughts and words of wisdom and thanks also to the other posters who have suggested Costa Rica as a viable alternative. I will pass on all of this info to my friend. Ultimately the choice is his!

 

He has never LIVED abroad but has travelled extensivly. His foreign language skills are close to zero and I personally feel that the liklihood of his becoming fluent in any language other than English is gamble at best.

 

I think he is leaning towards Greece because of the climate, plus the fact that, as he likes to drive, he can easily drive to many other countries and experience different cultures etc.

 

He is hoping to find an area where there is an substantial English speaking colony - the fact that most are hetrosexual wouldn't bother him. He is an out gay man but even here doesn't hangout with an exclusivly gay circle.

 

Any other members having ideas as to suitable retirement venues, where one's money can go further than it does in our economy, please share.

 

With regards to his comparative low income - he feels that he will realise enough from the sale of his present home to buy accomodation in the country he chooses. With his overhead taken care of, I would think the modest sum of $2500/mo should pay for food clothes entertainment etc. He's quite content with jeans and a T shirt most of the time and couldn't care less about "Armani". The biggest most troubling thing is the unknown of medical treatment and prescription drugs.

 

Thunderbuns

[trilingual]

If your friend wants to move to Brazil or Argentina, his income will be more than sufficient to live on. My friends in Brazil estimate that a person can have a very nice middle-class lifestyle on R$3500 - R$4000/mo. That would include rent, a maid, going out to eat, some trips, etc. If someone owns, then there's no rent to deal with, and if someone has a smallish apartment they don't need a full-time live-in maid. Someone who comes in half-a-day two or three times a week is sufficient, and is less expensive.

 

In Rio or Buenos Aires, most people live in apartments, rather than houses. Especially in Rio. There are lovely homes in B.A., but they're farther out and boringly suburban. In Rio you can find a 3 bedroom apartment in Copacabana for R$250,000 or less. Ipanema is more, as it's the most desirable neighborhood. In Buenos Aires I think it would be possible to find a very nice apartment, indeed, for US$50,000 - $75,000. Cars really are unnecessary in either city. In fact, they're a curse. Public transit is excellent and cheap and you can go anywhere by bus, subway or taxi. For the occasional getaway or shopping foray to the suburbs you can always rent a car for a day or two. Much cheaper and less problematic than owning one. (Parking and traffic in both cities are horrendous.)

 

Your friend would have to work at learning the language, but it's possible to get by in both Rio and BA without much knowledge of Portuguese or Spanish. Of course, you miss a great deal when you can't communicate fluently, but it's also a great incentive to learn. When you HAVE to learn the language, usually you do!

 

Unless your friend has pre-existing conditions, he probably can buy a local pre-paid health insurance plan in either country. In Rio and BA, medicine is at quite a high standard. He can also buy medical evacuation insurance, in case he's hospitalized and needs to be transferred back to Canada because treatment in South America is too expensive, or not covered, or inadequate for whatever is the problem.

 

Someplace that gets overlooked, because it's rather quiet compared to BA or Rio, is Uruguay. Their peso has also crashed, so prices are now reasonable. Montevideo is very pleasant, and is a short airplane or ferry ride from Buenos Aires. It's just less frenetic, but the people are very nice. There's also a smallish year-round community of Argentine gay retirees in Punta del Este, which is a beautiful place but very quiet in the off-season. Again, though, it's a short airplane hop over to BA for big city excitement. (A car would be essential in Punta, but not in Montevideo.)

 

If your friend has language difficulties, I wouldn't think of Greece as a first choice in Europe. Greek isn't easy, and there's a whole different alphabet to get accustomed to, also. Instead, I'd strongly consider Spain, especially Barcelona, Sitges, or the coastal area between Barcelona and the French border. Real estate isn't especially cheap in Spain, but I'm sure a more-than-decent flat can be found in Barcelona for €150,000 or so. Medical care is good, the day-to-day cost of living in Spain is very reasonable, a car is also unnecessary (at least for someone living in Barcelona, itself) and it's easy to get to other places in Europe by train, especially France and Italy. Winters are mild, and you'd be on the beach.

 

Lisbon is lovely, too. Housing isn't cheap, but the day-to-day cost of living is. Again, the winter weather is mild (compared to Canada, unless he lives in coastal BC), the people are very sweet, the food is good, no need for a car, beaches are nearby, much improved train connections to the rest of Europe, etc. English will be understood in Lisbon; the Portuguese and English have one of the most ancient alliances in Europe, so there is an old relationship between the two countries. Also, as in most of the smaller European countries, locals don't really expect foreigners to know the language and learn English in order to communicate with other Europeans. Spain, being a "big" country with a language spoken by hundreds of millions of people world-wide, is somewhat less multi-lingual. However, in places like Barcelona or the Costa Brava (between Barcelona and the French border) attract a lot of tourists, so English-speakers are more common. Get slightly off the tourist track in Spain, though, and you're rather on your own if you don't speak Spanish.

 

If your friend considers living there, he should keep in mind that the everyday local language in Barcelona and northeastern Spain is Catalan, not Spanish. If he intends to live in that part of the country he should plan to learn at least some everyday Catalan, particularly if he decides to settle in a smaller place. In Barcelona you don't need to be able to speak it, as everyone is bilingual, but street signs, menus, opera and theater programs, etc. are often in Catalan only. Catalan is linguistically positioned somewhere between Spanish and French, although closer to Spanish, so if one knows Spanish one can figure out Catalan without too much difficulty, although they are defintely separate languages. Catalan sounds a lot like European Portuguese, except that it doesn't have all the nasal sounds of Portuguese. It just adds to the charm of the place!

 

Wherever your friend decides to settle abroad, he should check with Revenue Canada (or whatever it's called these days) to look into tax treaties between Canada and the countries he's considering living in. He may find that it's more advantageous from a tax standpoint to live in one country over another, particularly if he has a public pension. (Like if he was a teacher or government employee.) He may find that countries with which Canada has a tax treaty don't tax Canadian public pensions. However, your friend would probably still have to pay Canadian federal income tax, although probably not provincial income tax. That information may be on Revenue Canada's website.

 

Hope this helps!

[+ Charlie]

Trilingual, you put a much more positive spin on the issue, which is probably a good balance to my negative presentation. However, I think you may underestimate the language problem for most people. Since you have indicated before that you are fluent in three languages (and probably learned them when you were fairly young), you are accustomed to dealing with language-switching and are probably comfortable improvising even in situations where you don't know the language. Most people don't have that facility, and acquiring it is very difficult as one gets older. Although I am fairly fluent in one other language and can fake it in a few more, I remember the strain of trying to function, day in and day out, living in a country where I could carry on only very simple conversations, and often misunderstood written materials (like the instructions on the back of my bus pass). Even when others do speak English, they may not want to, or may be as limited as you are in theirs. If Thunderbuns' friend is easy-going and doesn't mind often garbled communication, he may do fine anywhere, but I think most people in this situation come to feel isolated and vulnerable, especially if they are elderly.

[Boston Guy]

Charlie,

 

I agree with you that living somewhere without fluency in the local language would be very difficult.

 

However, I think we sometimes buy too much into the theory that it's hard to learn things when we're old. I think instead that we simply get tired and out of the habit of learning.

 

In fact, I think learning some major new skill at retirement age or older can be invigorating. Certainly if someone were contemplating moving their entire household to another country, it would be worth investing in some sort of intensive language-learning experience to avoid being isolated in their new country.

 

I actually think Greek is easy. Yes, the alphabet is different. But once you've learned the letters -- 2 days!! -- then you can pronounce any Greek word correctly, even one's you've never seen before. The grammar can be complex. But learning enough Greek to be able to converse in everyday situations is no more difficult than learning French or German. Of course, there are only 12 million Greek speakers in the entire world, so your new skill won't have the transportability of German or French or Spanish or Portuguese.

 

Finally, having said that Greek is easy, I don't think I'd want to live in the Greek islands in the winter... cold and isolated. No thanks!

 

:-)

 

BG

[Guest Thunderbuns]

Tri:

 

You are truly a wealth of information!

 

Thank you for such a detailed reply. I know it took quite some time to write all that and it is very much appreciated.

 

I have printed your response and will give it to my friend when we have lunch tomorrow.

 

I rather envy him for his "quandry" - what an exciting time it must be to be choosing a new place to live. I just hope that when I reach retirement age there will still be a number of viable options available to me :-)

 

Thanks again!

 

Thunderbuns

[+ Charlie]

Another point that I think should be made in regard to the economics of living abroad is that one is dependent on the stability of the local economy. If one invests one's Canadian principal in purchasing a home, and then decides after awhile that one wishes to move back to Canada or somewhere else, can one sell, and how much will one realize from the sale? What if the local currency is now worth much less than it was when you bought the property, so you lose half of your assets in the conversion back to Canadian dollars?

 

Countries where the cost of living is cheap often have unstable economies, which produce unstable governments, which may change the laws in unpredictable ways. A friend of mine owned one of those wonderful apartments in Buenos Aires, but then the govt. passed a law that the money from the sale couldn't be taken out of Argentina, even though he no longer wanted to live there. Right now all bank accounts in Argentina are frozen, so that people can't even get into their accounts to use their money for daily expenses.

 

There is a price for every advantage that one gets from moving to another country, and one of them is that one has to accept risks different from those he runs at home.

[Guest SeaGuy]

I'll feel free to mention a few things since Charlie already brought them up. In Argentina, a banking crisis is still in full throes with people not having full access to their own money. Many people kept money in Uruguay which was something of a money and bank haven, OOOPS! Uruguay is also in the middle of a financial and banking crisis. Can't get to the money there either. Lesson, one cannot keep money in local banks or in local currency either. Brazil is teetering on the edge right now. Public services in Argentina and Uruguay at a time when the goverment is bankrupt can and do go on strike, be prepared not to have your garbage picked up, or plumbing, telephone, electrical lines repaired. While investment in property in Argentina, Uruguay, and even Brazil may be a good idea in the long term, getting in on the bottom floor for bottom dollar as it where, it may not be everyones ideal of a relaxed, leisurely, and comfortable retirement. It is almost impossible to suggest to someone a place for them to retire to. It must be a place they know and feel comfortable in. That said Costa Rica is a safe, stable, attractive alternative and I know that there are many Canadian retirees living in the hill towns of central Mexico, San Miguel de Allende in particular though I was particularly impressed by Queretaro, clean, well-kept, orderly, beautiful and on the UNESCO World Heritage Site list. Hoewever your friend simply has to travel and visit places that interest him and when he comes upon one that he likes in particular, study it and see if he wants to commit to spending significant amounts of time there, let alone investing hard earned money from a lifetimes work there.

[Guest alanm]

I believe being able to speak the language on something more than a basic level is a necessity in this situation. My facility with foreign

languages is horrible. Luckily, I had 5 years of French in school, so can read French even if speaking it is still difficult. Given my prior

knowlege, I can pick it up again. I have done a lot of traveling in countries where English is not the first language. France is easily my favorite country because I know what's going on on a much deeper

level.

 

Tri has really written a lot of great information and this message is in no way a critical comment; he just has a better ability with foreign languages than most Americans.

[trilingual]

I certainly didn't mean to minimize the language issue; without knowing the local language I think one is rather handicapped. But I know of people who've gone to live in Rio who never really learned to speak Portuguese and seem to manage just fine. And they're happy there. I'd probably be miserable somewhere I couldn't speak the language, but that's me. Linguistically, BA is much more cosmopolitan than Rio, and English is much more widely spoken there. Of course, that has to do with the fact that the British essentially built Argentina, there continues to be a very large Anglo-Argentine community in BA (it was once the largest British community outside the Commonwealth) and many of the prestige private schools are bilingual English schools.

 

The suggestion that the future retiree take an intensive language course if he decides to settle somewhere is a good one. There are good courses of that sort in all of the countries/languages mentioned. Of course, what one learns in such a course is reinforced by the fact that you're living in the country and pushed into situations where you need to speak the language. I know that's how my mother learned Spanish when we moved to Mexico when I was a kid. She didn't know any Spanish at all (she'd studied French in school) but she signed up for an intensive course once we got settled in Mexico City, and before long she was fluent, even if she did have a Midwestern accent when she spoke! :-) But there wasn't any choice in order to converse with the maids, to go to the markets, or to socialize with non-English-speaking neighbors, so she learned how to communicate.

 

Real estate values in South America: Although quoted in local currency, the real value of properties is in dollars, because that's what people want to keep their savings in. Despite currency fluctuations, the value of an apartment in Rio or BA tends to stay fairly constant in dollar terms. That's not the case right now in Argentina, because of the banking freeze. People are desperate to sell apartments they bought as investments at very deep discounts in order to get ready cash, so prices are depressed. The banking freeze won't last forever, though, and once the economy becomes more liquid again the value of properties is likely to go back up to its former level, in dollar terms.

 

Things are grim in Argentina, and now Uruguay (which is inextricably linked economically to Argentina) but not quite as grim as Seaguy represents. Even with the banking freeze, some withdrawals have been possible, so people can get money for daily living expenses from ATMs. On really bad days when there were runs on the banks the ATMs got closed, but mostly they've been open. Many people have succeeded in getting court orders for the release of their frozen funds, so money is getting back in circulation. Now that the peso has stabilized, and the Argentine central bank is suddenly pulling in dollars, it looks like the freeze will probably be lifted before long.

 

In Uruguay the banks are open again, after getting an emergency bailout from the IMF. The problem there was that so many Argentines had money deposited in Uruguay, as a banking haven, and when things turned bad at home they started a run on the banks across the river. That, of course, freaked the Uruguayans, who also started taking out their money for fear of a freeze, and sure enough, a freeze was eventually necessary to keep the banks from collapsing. But I believe things are back to normal again in Uruguay, although a couple of undercapitalized banks were closed or taken over by the government.

 

For a foreigner who's planning on living in a country like Argentina or Brazil, where there is a risk of economic instability, you have to expect if you buy property that you're in it for the long run. You're buying an apartment to have a roof over your head, not necessarily as a money-making investment. Approached that way, it doesn't matter much what the day-to-day values of property are, because you're living in your apartment and have no need to sell it.

 

Chances are that it's possible to buy a place in Rio or BA for considerably less than the value of the future retiree's home in Canada. In that case, he should bank the difference back home in Canada. Also, his pension should be deposited directly to a bank in Canada, and he can use ATMSs to get cash in South America (they weren't blocked to foreign account holders). If he needs more than the daily limit at an ATM he can always get it in the form of a "cash advance" or debit withdrawal using his card inside the bank, or at the local Visa or MasterCard service centers. A local bank account will be necessary for paying local bills (like phone and electric, homowners association fees, etc.) but one should put no more than necessary into that account to cover those costs. Leave everything else back in a nice, safe, stable bank at home!!! Other things, even groceries at the supermarket, can be paid for using his home bank debit card, and if the home bank offers on-line banking, it's also easy to manage his account and pay any bills he may have back home. Also, he's going to want to keep any Canadian credit cards he has, and pay the credit card bills back in Canada, because interest rates on Brazilian or Argentine cards (assuming he could get one) are punitive.

 

In other words, where there's a will, there's a way! I hope to be buying a place of my own in Rio in a year or so, after I've retired. And I plan to manage my money by leaving most of it back here in the U.S. and relying on ATMs, debit cards and U.S. credit cards to have access to it.

[Boston Guy]

Reading this and thinking about the possibility of political or economic instability gave me another thought: depending on where your friend lives, it might be possible to rent out his home in Canada instead of selling it and then use the income to pay for housing in Rio or wherever it is that he chooses to settle.

 

This course of action would give him some flexibility, at least for long enough to decide if he really does want to live in a particular location, and also would provide him the ability to go back home should he find that is what he really wants to do.

 

If the housing market where he lives now is strong enough, it might even be possible to do this sort of thing for a long time, using a local property management company to care for the property for him. In the best case, the rent from his home in Canada -- after subtracting management fees -- would be larger than his rent in his new country and would provide a supplement to his pension.

 

Just a thought. :-)

 

BG

[BgMstr4u]

This is a great thread, with a world of useful information.

 

A thought. Loneliness is a major factor in depression and subsequent decline in health for many older people. It is probably a good idea to visit the places where you think you might live for an extended period, not only to check out the financial and real estate realities, but also to see if there are communities of like-minded people who might welcome you. This would seem to be doubly important if language skills are minimal. Are there active ex-pat communities of Americans where you are thinking of going? Is it easy to enter into them?

 

I have found the easiest entry points in many places to be the local English-speaking church, which usually serves as much more than a religious institution, but is a social and interactive center as well. I vividly remember attending a service at St. Michael's Anglican church in Cuernavaca some years ago, and at the end of the service there was a general meeting to organize a mail run to Texas. I have found it much easier to make friends and begin to be included in social life as a result of attending church services than any other way. And these have not been gay-excluding places -- quite the contrary!

[BgMstr4u]

"Are there active ex-pat communities of Americans where you are thinking of going?""

 

Oops -- of course your friend is Canadian. A thousand apologies for such an insensitive assumption! Please accept my amendment of the above to "Are there active English-speaking ex-pat communities".

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>"Are there active ex-pat communities of Americans where you

>are thinking of going?""

>

>Oops -- of course your friend is Canadian. A thousand

>apologies for such an insensitive assumption! Please accept

>my amendment of the above to "Are there active

>English-speaking ex-pat communities".

 

No need to apologize - most Canadians feel that the differance betwen Americans and Canadians is so minimal that the two words are almost interchangable. The language is the same and we are all "North Americans" The only real differance is the currency and the politics!

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>This is a great thread, with a world of useful information.

 

I agree - it has turned into a real resource. And I suspect, may be of interest to many of our members who are approaching retirement age.

 

>A thought. Loneliness is a major factor in depression and

>subsequent decline in health for many older people.

 

I was reading an article only last week that discussed this topic. I found it interesting that it said that the internet has been a great tool for combating lonliness and a sense of isolation in those that have little contact with the world, either due to remote location, illness or lack of local language skills.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Just a thought. :-)

 

And it's a very good thought BG!

 

He has also concidered selling his Canadian home and investing the $$$ and using the income from the investment to rent.

 

Another viable option might be to sell his home here, and but a house large enough to enable him to rent a part of it to a local in what ever country he chooses. This would give him the security of a paid for home plus a little extra supplement.

 

When one really starts to look into it - the possibilities seem endless.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest Thunderbuns]

to want to keep any Canadian credit

>cards he has, and pay the credit card bills back in Canada,

>because interest rates on Brazilian or Argentine cards

>(assuming he could get one) are punitive.

 

But if you pay off your balanc every 30 days, wouldn't the interest factor be nil?

 

>In other words, where there's a will, there's a way! I hope

>to be buying a place of my own in Rio in a year or so, after

>I've retired. And I plan to manage my money by leaving most

>of it back here in the U.S. and relying on ATMs, debit cards

>and U.S. credit cards to have access to it.

 

I guess he never realized that ATM's were as popular/available in South America as they are here. My friend hardly ever uses "real money" here, but we assumed that paying for groceries etc via debit card would not be an option. It makes the whole scenario much easier!

 

One further question - Do you have a rough estimate of how much one would have to pay for a decent well-located 2 bedroom apartment in Rio (in US dollars)?

 

Thunderbuns

[Chuck50]

Another possiblity is the Island of Palma de Majorcca off Spain. Beautiful climate many people from England and Scotland retire and Vacation there while very active it also has it's quiet area's. I loved every minute of my visits there while in the Navy and the English speakers were all abounding. Just my two cents. I know I would struggle with learning a new language later in life myself. Chuck

[Will]

What a great thread this is. Not long ago there was some discussion of a gay retirement community in Florida, and at that time several people indicated that they would be really interested in more information, or at least the sharing of information, about retirement for gay men. I'm going to retire some time in the next decade -- sooner or later I don't know -- and it is none too soon to begin the planning. There are so many things to consider, as Charlie, BG, and others have pointed out; even if one stays in the U.S. or Canada, there are hundreds of decisions to be made. It can all be very overwhelming -- at least to me -- if there's nobody to talk about it with. As it happens, I don't know any other gay men who are within sight of retirement, and so I don't have anybody to talk about these things with. Would any of you be interested in a forum -- perhaps a Yahoo! Group -- devoted to gay men and retirement?

 

Thanks to Thunderbuns and all the others who have made so many helpful suggestions and raised so many important things to consider.

[Guest alanm]

Will,

 

That's a great idea, especially coming from you -- one of the most

respected people on this Message Center.

 

As to some of the last suggestions, I plan to spend time in several countries before making any kind of a decision. I mentioned in an

earlier posting that langauage is very important to me, so it would have to be an English or French speaking country. One country that

no one has mentioned is Australia. I really love Australia, but do

remember having conversations there about how difficult this would be to accomplich "Down Under." Australia is a country with plenty of

vacant land that nearly everyone in Asia would like to visit or live

for an extended period of time.

[Boston Guy]

TB,

 

You don't say where in Canada your friend lives; I've just been assuming that he lives in Vancouver.

 

For me, there's a certain irony to that: for quite some time, I've thought that Vancouver would be a very attractive place for Americans to retire to. It's a great city in an incredible setting, with a wonderful climate, smart, generous, educated population, and many cultural resources. Not to mention, of course, that they speak the right language there.

 

Vancouver is very gay-friendly, probably more so than at least many US cities. It's also, for someone with a US-based income, a bargain compared to America. Someone who retires to Vancouver with a US retirement income will immediately see it go at least a third farther than it would in the US.

 

Finally, Vancouver's proximity to Seattle makes it an easy drive "home" in case of a need to get to the US or US-based services. I'm not sure what the status is for Americans living in Canada, in terms of health care for serious medical problems. But it surely would be possible to keep a major-medical policy available for use in someplace like Seattle should it prove necessary.

 

Having said all of this, I know one person who did it: he retired to Vancouver. I found myself contemplating the idea (in about 25 years :-) ) and then discovered that he was in the midst of actually doing it.

 

He's extremely outgoing and very, very bright. And he found it a great challenge to suddenly be away from his home and the people who formed the circle in which he lived and worked. It's not easy building a brand-new set of friends and loneliness will be a factor.

 

Anyone who is considering moving away for retirement would be well-advised, I think, to consider trying it for a year or two in some way that allows them to return home if they find that the reality isn't as great as it seemed it might be when it was just a glorious idea.

 

BG