Hypocrites R Us???

[+ purplekow]

Monogamy was propagated to insure father's that the children that were heirs to their estate were indeed their children. Of course that did not work.

I was monogamous and faithful in my marriage and I considered the fidelity a testament to our love and the monogamy a gift to my wife as I considered her monogamy a gift to me. If I were to find a special man in my life, I would not expect monogamy from either of us. If our relationship was not based on fidelity, well then I think we would be just good friends who fuck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

io

[+ Charlie]

In traditional societies, it was logical for a woman to expect sexual monogamy as the sign of faithfulness from her mate, since she was totally dependent on him for financial support and protection for herself and her children. If he had sex with another woman, it jeopardized the amount of support and protection she could expect, since he might take on new responsibilities, especially if he fathered children by another woman. (Muslim society allowed a man to have more than one wife, but only if he could afford it.) Likewise, as purplekow noted, until recently it was logical for a man to to expect sexual monogamy from his wife, since he had no other way to be sure that he was really the father of her children. Sexual monogamy as as a measure of fidelity no longer makes much sense in a world in which paternity can be determined by a medical test, and women can support themselves and receive protection from the state (the latter is, of course, somewhat theoretical, since in real world terms a woman is usually much better off with a mate who willingly supports her and her children). None of this seems relevant in a "marriage" between two men, unless they are trying to imitate an old-fashioned heterosexual relationship--and why would we want to do that?

[AdamSmith]

Can one be faithful while at the same time being non-monogamous?

 

Yes. Your case -- QED. Congratulations, and a bit of awe.

 

The converse also gets little attention: I recently saw a situation where one partner was monogamous, but still managed to violate the totality of the marriage vows pretty egregiously.

[NYTomcat]

One Hypocrite to another: Jaded or Realists

 

I have avoided posting as to the main theme of this thread as the topic hits a little too close too home. However, I find the discussion keeps rolling around in my mind. As you know, I am one of those married men of which lucky's original post refers. After coming out at age 19, a series of personal events lead me to race back into the closet and I hunkered down to live a lie and I have monogamously for 20 years, (until I met all you fine people LOL). In any event, I now find myself having broken those vows of both fidelity and monogamy. However , I will say I am not a hypocrit. I have not posted on this thread about the topic and have not posted on the thread regarding Mr. Woods for simple reason, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and the second and third, etc.... That being said, please feel free to malign my virtues all you wish, I am certain nothing any of you could say will be stronger than what I tell myself.

 

With that in mind, I do have one concern of this discussion of monogamy &/vs. fidelity. I do see the difference and believe that a beautiful loving relationship can be non-manogamous and still true so long as the relationship goes forward without lie or deceipt. That each partner in that relationship understands the promise, or lack thereof, from the other. However, and again maybe I am still a hopeless romantic, I still crave the ideal of a man to share my life with whom I am so happy in that relationship I do not desire to go outside of it for fulfillment. Is it completely beyond the bond of reality that soul mates exist and that the very nature of the relationship is such that you have no desire for others? Is it crazy to believe that two people can so fulfill each other that the need for outside entertainment, even if allowed, is just unnecessary?

 

Ok so the hopeless romantic in me wonders, Is it being a realist to say we just were not meant to be sexually monogamous, or are we jaded somehow by life to believe that such a pairing will never come so why strive for it.

 

As my eyes have opened and my life is changing, I will soon get myself back to a place were my vows, broken as they are, will be no more. And I do promise I will not be monogamous, hell Im not even there now. But I also promise, this old romantic will still be searching for that one true partner with whom to share all my life and with which the need for outside entertainment will be unnecessary. Of course, when I am freed and searching, watch out boys, 20 years of repressed gay sexuality on the hoof and free of guilt.

[+ Lucky]

I wish you the best of luck in that search. Honestly, I do. The statistics are against you, but it is not impossible or there would be no need for the statistics.

[NYTomcat]

I wish you the best of luck in that search. Honestly, I do. The statistics are against you, but it is not impossible or there would be no need for the statistics.

 

Well I can only say that your long relationship is inspiring. I only hope I get so "Lucky"

[+ Lucky]

Thanks for the congrats on the anniversary. It is something to realize that someone has given me 27 years of his life, and I in turn have reciprocated.

[+ Lucky]

Sometimes being first in line means just that. From azcentral.com:

 

Phoenix Councilman Tom Simplot and his longtime partner, David Smith, made history in February, becoming the first couple to sign up for the city's domestic-partner registry. Turns out Simplot and Smith (right) have captured another first: They are the first and only couple in Phoenix to terminate their registration.

To date, 235 couples have registered their domestic partnership with Phoenix.

[+ Lucky]

A new study on gay monogamy is being released. See the NY Times story:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html

[gp0560]

Variation on a Theme

 

... As you know, I am one of those married men of which lucky's original post refers. ... I hunkered down to live a lie and I have monogamously for 20 years. ...

 

Here's a somewhat different take on our theme. My situation is similar to NYTomcat's, except that I was monogamous for 43 years, not 20. By then, I had realized that what I needed most was the combination of a close male friend and a casual lover, a guy who not only would share in all my thoughts and feelings, but would also be naked and intimate with me. Now, just how does a closeted gay male find such a friend? Since I'm not out, I can't risk sharing the most intimate part of my thoughts and feelings, let alone the physical intimacy. Consequently, I have no close male friends and instead, I look for escorts who can provide a few hours of friendship. Fortunately, I have found two who have shown themselves to be true friends for the long haul, clearly above and beyond the duties of escorting. (Not to mention that they are great to be naked with. lol) What a gift!

 

My point is that unfaithfulness can result from needs other than the purely sexual ones.

[NYTomcat]

when you find out gp let me know, however at this point i think id keep my escort friends anyway.

[gp0560]

Thanks NYT

 

when you find out gp let me know, however at this point i think id keep my escort friends anyway.

 

Tomcat, thanks for your comment, but what is it that I am supposed to tell you when I find out? Clearly, I have not explained myself very well.

 

What I meant to say was that I know two people who have given me the gift of true friendship. They happen to be escorts, because that's the only way I could find the kind of intimacy I was looking for. For certain sure I'll keep them in my life, if they'll have me! They're probably the only friends I'll have unless/until my marriage ends.

 

Ah, the joys of living in the closet! I envy PurpleKow for being able to manage his life with integrity and keep his vows of monogamy and faithfulness the way he has.

[+ purplekow]

The way he did.

 

I was faithful, monogamous and totally in love and excited sexually from my wife. Not to be too graphic, but during our last sexual encounter I was hard for more than 4 hours without the benefit of medications that warn you about such things. I have come to think that the sex of the person you love should not matter any more than their eye or hair color. Sure there is a package of physical traits which make make someone more desirable than another. For me, right now, those traits usually include male, muscularly built, 30-50 year old. But on that night so long ago now that my heart and my head ache thinking about it, it was a female, 42 yo, 5'9, 98 pounds and bald. So there you go. Ultimately it isn't the wrapping, its the gift from inside that makes an encounter memorable.

[gp0560]

The way he did.

 

OMG, PK, I am so sorry to have caused you any pain. Your first sentence and the one key word later on tell me so much about you and your journey, about the integrity you showed and continue to show. You have my unqualified admiration for the way you are playing the hand you were dealt.

[GoodFella69]

Three quick thoughts:

 

1. Lucky: thanks for the thought-provoking thread and insightful observation regarding our potential hypocricy regarding Tiger Woods. You make some great points.

 

2. I think gay and straight men are both equally promiscuous. It's just my uneducated conjecture on the matter. But, I'm an airline pilot and witness (or hear about) many of my colleagues hook-ups with female escorts, flight attendants, and/or other women they meet every night online or in hotel lobby bars in virtually every city where we have overnights/duty-rests/lay-overs. Hmmm...Come to think of it, maybe it's just horny pilots (gay or straight) who are the most promiscuous!

 

3. Purplekow: YOU are my hero! Thanks for sharing your wonderful posts which are always so enlightening. I admire your courage, integrity, endurance and triumph over adversity.

 

Cheers,

Goodfella

[NYTomcat]

GP you are absolutely correct I only meant that if you figured out how to find that close male friend and casual lover from inside the closet you should let me know. I was being somewhat sarcastic as I agree I do not think its possible or at least not probable. I too have found friends here and from hiring that I consider far more than an "escort". Its why I followed up with keeping them. My life is far more colorful and satisfying with me as his client and friend than it ever was before. I was simply applauding your path and echoing that I am following.

 

PK you have and always will be an inspiration to me. You are so comfortable in your own skin and with who you are. But more important you share that with the people around you. I merely wish to develop that much self actualization. And you are more than right, while the physical may attract you to a person it is ultimately the person within that keeps the relationship fresh and exciting beyond that first encounter. I would miss you horribly if you were not here, nor do I think I would have been here without your assistance in my earliest of posts (I still recall fondly bathrooms at Prime) But I am sorry for your loss that brought you to this forum. But your life would not be the same nor would you be the person you are now but for having that great and wonderful love in your life.

[Guest RyanCade]

Several guys seem to be in a dither about Tiger Woods dipping his stick in too many places, yet this is the very place where we tell married men how to find escorts. Sometimes we even encourage them when they need assistance. Then we all discuss the multiple partners we have, and even brag about how many guys we had at one time.

 

I encourage men to do what they want, especially things that make them really happy... Wink ;-)

 

So why so hard on Woods? Gay men should be the last people to take pleasure in Tiger's problems. We are probably the least monogamous group on the planet.

 

Amen!

 

A Washington Post columnist discusses the fact that highly successful athletes are rarely unwilling to enjoy the sex that gets thrown at them. Most people I know say that men are not born to be monogamous, that it is our biological destiny to spread the seed, and I see no evidence to contradict that.

 

I agree with that 100%; I would love another relationship one day, but I am not interested in a cage.. I believe if you really love a man, why wouldn't you want him to be happy?? Let him be a man...

 

Marilyn Monroe would agree and say, "just let them think what they want to"

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews