Cancellation Fees

[Guest EWC]

I'm curious about the general attitude toward charging a cancellation fee. The story is that I had an appointment with a gentleman for an evening appointment. No previous mention of any sort of cancellation fee was discussed, simply an agreement on the fee. About 3 hours before the meeting I had a medical emergency in my family that I had to attend to and the evening was off. I called and told him that we would have to postpone the meeting. He indicated that since he had passed on other appointments after I had made mine, I owed him some sort of Cancellation Fee. Admittedly, I was stunned. I am also in a profession wherein I sell my time and hate it when people cancel at the last minute, and if they make a habit of it I no longer see them, however I would never dream of charging for work that I hadn't done. It seems to me that that is one of the risks one takes by being self employed. I am sure that if he had mentioned it prior to the meeting and requested a deposit I would not be surprised by the fee, but to bring it up after the fact seems to me way out of line. Any thoughts?

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>Admittedly, I was stunned. I am also in a profession

>wherein I sell my time and hate it when people cancel at the

>last minute, and if they make a habit of it I no longer see

>them, however I would never dream of charging for work that

>I hadn't done. It seems to me that that is one of the risks

>one takes by being self employed. I am sure that if he had

>mentioned it prior to the meeting and requested a deposit I

>would not be surprised by the fee, but to bring it up after

>the fact seems to me way out of line. Any thoughts?

 

He sounds like a piss poor business man to me. I'm sure you explained the reason for the cancellation was due to a family medical emergency. If he had been smart he would have tried to reschedule the appointment and keep you as a present and future client.

 

At this point I assume he has alienated you as a client for ever - and did not collect his cancellation fee. A loose loose situation for him for sure.

 

Some guys think with their dicks instead of their heads.

 

Thunderbuns

[Traveller]

>A loose

>loose situation for him for sure.

>

 

Damn. Are we talking prolapsed vaginas and rectums again?

 

Later.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>>A loose

>>loose situation for him for sure.

>>

>

>Damn. Are we talking prolapsed vaginas and rectums again?

>

>Later.

 

I told y'all before - I never could apply for a job as a secretary. I look like shit in a mini skirt.

 

Thunderbuns

[Guest IGetAround]

Cancellation fees should only be allowed IF the escorts will give discounts for THEIR cancellations. I had an appointment lined up for this weekend, but the escort cancelled due to a "change in his plans". Should there not be a discount in the future? Yes, I have rescheduled as he is a neat guy... Will I get a price break? I doubt it. Actually it will cost me a bit extra due to the change of time and date.

[guyinsf]

If he is a neat guy, maybe he'll give you a discount on your next booking if you ask for it, explaining the costs you incurred due to his cancellation. You might not get a discount, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[OneFinger]

I really believe cancellation fees should be based on the circumstances and are totally justified in some instances. For example, for overnight appointments or travel-related calls I feel a cancellation fee is appropriate since they require much more planning and commitment for the escort.

 

However, in this instance (family emergency) I feel the fee is not justified providing this isn't your second or third cancellation with this escort.

 

I also feel that cancellation fees should be provided to clients when the escort cancels without adequate notice. (But, don't ask me to figure out how the client is supposed to get their money when the guy doesn't show.)

 

I've had two different escorts cancel at the last minute. In one instance I rearranged my business travel to accomodate their schedule only to have then cancel. That cancellation cost me almost $300 in extra hotel and airline fees. x(

 

The second time, another escort cancelled only two hours before the appointment. (He "suddenly" decided to stop escorting - even before seeing me. :+ ) At least I was able to cancel the hotel room and it didn't cost me anything.

[Guest]

Many businesses charge cancellation fees for changes made at the last minute. In this instance, you probably did not give him adequate time to make another appointment. I just read a letter to Condé Nast Traveler's Ombudsman in which a traveler complained because he had to cancel a hotel reservation due to a family emergency, and lost his first night's deposit. He said he never heard the hotel's cancellation policy. The ombudsman basically sided with the hotel, saying it was the client's responsibility to find out the cancellation policy.

Of course, escorting is not a legal business, and I'm not even sure if a legal business does or does not have to disclose its cancellation policy before accepting a reservation. It thus becomes a business issue. If you were a past, loyal client, and hadn't previously cancelled on short notice, he would be silly not to give you a break for a single family emergency.

However, if you were going to be a new client to him, I can't blame him for hesitating to make another appointment with you. You can't compare your business to his. It sounds like you're in a business in which people hire you repeatedly. Most clients, however, don't repeatedly hire the same escort. If this was the first time you were going to hire him, I suspect the same would hold for you (and I'm sure the escort would assume the same thing).

Although you may have had a legitimate family emergency, the escort really has no way of verifying that. Assuming you weren't a regular client of his, he was probably thinking "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!" I'm sure most escorts have heard the "My father was just taken to the hospital" story before.

[Guest LG320126]

Am I missing something here or what? How in the Canadian hell are either an escort or a client going to collect a cancellation fee? Hello? - I really don't think so!

[Guest regulation]

As I have said in the previous three or four threads on this same subject, one party to a contract has no right to demand from the other any fee except what was agreed by both parties -- to impose unilaterally a fee that was never part of the agreement is to alter the contract without the other party's consent. If the seller of goods or services wants to collect a fee in case the buyer cancels his order before taking delivery, he has the obligation to inform the buyer beforehand so that the buyer can factor that into his decision whether or not to place the order. If he fails to bring it up, it isn't part of the agreement and the buyer has no obligation to pay it.

[Guest elwood]

I think the issue of cancellation fees in the escort/client transaction goes a bit too far. Last minute cancellations are obviously a problem especially if the escort has turned down other business. How can it be collected? As a client,I have encountered "no shows" which have cost me money. I would not have even imagined that the irresponsible escorts who stood me up would somehow pay me a cancellation fee, and as for a discount, I would NEVER re-hire someone who stood me up. You just have to take the experience and learn the lesson. It happens.As for appointments made and then cancelled due to changed circumstances...that happens too and as long as either party informs the other as soon as possible,I see no reason for a fee. It is a matter of respect for the other persons time, not a matter of any "legal" obligation. If I make an appointment with an escort when I am traveling on business,and then my business plans change through no control of my own..what is the issue? This happens.... and as long as I notify the escort..I am fulfilling any obligations I have. If I was asked for a cancellation fee..I would refuse.End of issue and end of escort/client transaction.

[Guest Spunk]

Escorts should not charge a cancellation fee. It is absurd to think that they should accept little to no risk in their business.

 

The escort who you write about requesting a fee is drunk on his own cock. Who does he think he is anyway? What gives him the right to request a cancellation fee? There is no written contract, nothing was disclosed upfront and considering the nature of his business (assuming you're in the states) he would never be able to collect on a cancellation fee or receive a judgement in court.

 

Escorts who cancel on clients should give a discount on a rescheduled appointment. The escort is the business and just like any business has an obligation to keep their customer's happy.

 

Guys you do not have to "settle" or fall into the thought pattern that they're doing you a favor. You pay them, you hire them, they work for you. There are times when submission is not a good thing, this is one of them.

[Prime Muscle]

I agree with the majority of responses that cancellation fees are absurd. As an escort, I would never bring up the topic of cancellation fees. Unfortunately, I have had too many situations where there is a last minute cancellation or a no-show. In these cases, I simply do not reschedule with this client unless the client offers to make up for the inconvenience. However, three hours was enough notice to not call this a last minute cancellation.

 

Cancellations goes both ways. I've had to cancel appointments in the past but I've been able to provide at least 24 hours notice for the few cancellations I had to make. In these cases, if the client rescheduled, I made it up for their inconvenience.

 

The reason for the cancellation does not matter. Even though a medical emergency sounds like a good reason (and I certainly hope everything is ok), you have to keep in mind that anyone can make up any reason. Yes, I hate to say it but both escorts and clients lie.

 

- Bobby

[+ deej]

I agree that cancellation fees are unjustified usually. But I also believe in "never say never". ;-)

 

A friend of mine had a client who was flying to town for business. The client was in his hotel a full day before the appointment. When my pal showed up, the client was visibly suffering from a horrible cold and called off the session. He really was sick as a dog, so it was reasonable to cancel. But he had my friend's phone number and didn't call in advance to cancel.

 

My friend is a bottom and prides himself on being meticulously clean, so getting prepared is not a matter of a simple shower. He schlepped all the way downtown. He invested considerable time and energy (and cab fare, which he borrowed from me!) just to show up.

 

In a situation like that, I think the *reasonable* thing to do would be to give the guy a portion of his fee, or at the very least cover cab fare. The client did not.

 

I think it's going to boil down to "it depends".

[Guest JustANametoPlay]

I also agree it depends on the situation. In general i say no, but if an escort does have to expend money (such as travel/hotel/etc) then the client should have the courtesey to cover those. If it is a simple transaction between a local client and a local escort then no.

[Rod Hagen]

Escorts actually pray for a cancellation from Spunk.

[Guest]

>I agree with the majority of responses that cancellation

>fees are absurd. As an escort, I would never bring up the

>topic of cancellation fees. Unfortunately, I have had too

>many situations where there is a last minute cancellation or

>a no-show. In these cases, I simply do not reschedule with

>this client unless the client offers to make up for the

>inconvenience. However, three hours was enough notice to

>not call this a last minute cancellation.

 

What's the most amazing fact imagineable is that almost no one on this thread feels a cancellation fee is due when the client gave three hours' notice, yet half of the message center jumped to Rick Munroe's defense when he pocketed $1500 after a client gave him weeks' notice on a week-end engagement. In this response, however, I'm not sure to what the reference of the client "making it up" to the escort refers. It sounds like a cancellation fee.

If I were an escort, I think that if a brand new client cancelled on me with three hours' notice, I would either not make appointments with him again (unless it were some strange time in which I was sure no one else would want an appointment), or I would ask for an advance deposit.

[Rick Munroe]

>half of the message

>center jumped to Rick Munroe's defense when he pocketed

>$1500 after a client gave him weeks' notice on a week-end

>engagement.

 

Unfortunately nothing about this post is true and anyone who was reading the message center at that time would know that. But thanks for the free PR.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Confirmed Appointments

 

Lil Blond Boy has a policy on his web site, of requesting a $50 deposit, to confirm an appointment. At least he did, the one time I looked at about a month or so ago. The day I did so, two of the Twink Hos were over at my place -- insert disgression here: they were making popcorn and we were getting ready to watch American Gigolo on the Bravo Channel -- we discussed whether such a concept would work in Los Angeles, how the money would be collected up front and whether or not it would be feasible. I had to spend ten minutes explaining why extra virgin olive oil could be used for popcorn but it would not be feasible to do so in order to use the word in a manner for them to understand it. The consensus was that such a fee would not "fly" in the words of Twink Ho Number 4 and Richard Gere was filling up my television screen.

 

On an escort mail list I participate in, a similar topic came up, where an escort suggested a "paypal" deposit.

 

I personally believe there are times I should have been compensated for the time and effort expended, the opportunities lost, and so forth, but have never requested and I cannot imagine circumstances under which I would request such a fee. Once a client took me to dinner, on my time (but at an agreed-upon reduced rate) to make up for a prior cancellation. Insert second patented digression here: We booked the appointment on line that morning, he called, as agreed upon, to confirm from his cell phone 45 minutes beforehand and then 20 minutes after he was supposed to be knocking my door, he telephoned again and said his partner had shown up while he was preparing for me and they had gotten into an argument.

 

The next weekend, as part of a regularly booked appointment, we agreed afterwards to have dinner together, he picked up the check and paid me for an hour of my time at half my fee. I have since enjoyed our non-sexual time with him so much and he has become one of the few very frequent regulars that I have, that we incorporate something like this, now off the clock, about once a month, but he always picks up the check. By the way, he has an expense account and I believe he deducts the meals with me.

 

On the two occassions I have had to rebook a client due to a situation at home (unexpected house guest for an incall visit and a bad cold), I offered and provided extra time, off the clock to both clients.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

I agree with Reg that these things need to be decided up front and not attempted to be imposed unilaterally ex-post facto.

 

I also agree with deej that to seek a canellation fee (previously discussed) depends on the situation. That having been said, there are occasions where the client should offer some compensation IMO.

 

And justaname... hits the nail on the head.

 

A prime example and a pet peeve of mine concerns travelling escorts that usually see one client a day. (I know a few in this category.) A late cancellation leaves the escort high and dry on room charges for the day and on transportation costs that must be amortized over the visit – forget any profit. When two or three of these happen during a week visit it puts a real ding in the financial success of the trip. The fallout: the escort thinks twice about travelling anytime soon to my venue – that gores my ox. :-( At the least a cancellation by the client under this circumstance is very ill considerate. If I were the escort these (unreliable) guys would go on the bottom of my list for future contact – as filler material.

 

I know, I know – shit happens, and legitimate circumstances arise for cancellation. I’m sensitive to that, but let’s face it less shit really happens than is claimed. IMO if you make an appointment with an out-of-towner you should consider it a concrete commitment short of a medical or family emergency. And if you cancel for any other reason you should cover his room charges at a minimum.

 

It is my feeling that tentative appointments are often made without any real commitment on the part of the client as indicated by a requirement to ‘confirm’ on the day of the appointment. This quasi-appointment stuff interfered with my attempt to schedule with a recent traveler to my city. The escort felt obligated to wait for the ‘up or down’ phone call and I agree he was, having agreed to do so. I just don’t understand clients who call to schedule a ‘definite maybe’ and then want to hold the escort to first refusal. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

 

Client with a gored ox or two.

:-(

[alanalt]

In an ideal world, two reasonable sane adults should always be able to work out what's fair... Only problem is, how often does that happen?

 

Seriously, I do agree that there are times when a client may owe the escort remuneration even when the 'deed' isn't done (e.g. the already cited examples of last-minute cancellations, travel costs, etc.). However I do agree with regulation (which was a bit of a shock for me) that there is an obligation for the escort to outline those conditions in advance to the meeting. Whether it's asking for a deposit or travel costs up front, or posting a cancellation policy on the escort's website, or including it with a confirming e-mail, I do feel that there is a certain onus on the escort to provide this information to the client in advance.

 

Without that clearly laid out, I personally would feel very reluctant to compensate an escort, especially if the cancellation arose because of events beyond my control. The idea of a discount on the next session is a good one, but almost impossible to enforce...

 

Anyway that's my $0.03 Cdn (a little less than 2 cents US)

 

Alan

[pacnwescort]

I recently had a client call off a trip to visit him on a tropical island because of a grave family medical emergency. He called me with the bad news about a week before I was supposed to leave, while I was at my place in San Francisco, where I have lived part-time for half a year. As a result, I basically had a week of completely unscheduled time, and there was no way I could have generated the same amount of income I would have made if the trip had occured.

 

During the week I was supposed to be gone, I went on long bike rides, worked out at the gym, hooked up with several fuck buddies, found guys on AOL to hang out with and have sex with, went to movies and dance clubs, and slept late. I did end up meeting some clients, but mostly I got to focus on enjoying San Francisco and some of its hotter men for the first time since I've lived here.

 

I am now working on rescheduling the trip with the client. My question is, do I have to give him a discount for forcing me to relax and have fun?

 

Shit happens, and you go with the flow. If this is what it means for things to go wrong in my life, I am pretty damn lucky.

 

Steven

[email protected]

[Guest regulation]

>>half of the message

>>center jumped to Rick Munroe's defense when he pocketed

>>$1500 after a client gave him weeks' notice on a week-end

>>engagement.

>

>Unfortunately nothing about this post is true and

>anyone who was reading the message center at that time would

>know that. But thanks for the free PR.

 

 

I was reading the message center at the time. As I recall the client gave you a $1,200.00 deposit for an appointment that was scheduled, canceled and rescheduled a couple of times, but always with a substantial amount of notice rather than at the last moment. Ultimately the client requested the return of his deposit and after many acrimonious exchanges you offered $600.00. A number of posters did indeed defend your refusal to return the deposit, but many of them did so not because they think cancellation fees are a good idea but because (according to them) anyone who gives an escort money up front is a fool and deserves to lose his dough.

 

Did you actually give Nice Guy any of the money back or did you keep the entire amount?

[Rick Munroe]

I can't believe this is being rehashed (in a revisionist way) once again...by the same two people. I was going to do the smart thing and ignore these chronic escort-bashers but I keep forgetting that we have many new members here who might be curious about this dead topic (altho, from the nonexistent replies, I guess it's obvious that it's really just my ego that cares!). After that thread was first posted in December 2001, it quickly became the longest & most argued one this site had ever had up to that point (a whopping 191 posts and over 4,500 hits). Many people wrote me that it was a testament to my popularity that it was such a "scandal" but I found the whole thing pretty funny: how the "lawyers" of the Message Center argued the case endlessly, without any further participation from the 2 parties involved. And, in actuality, an overwhelming majority of posters sided with me, while the posts calling me a crook & a hustler were mostly written by 2 people: regulation and unicorn.

 

>As I recall the client gave you a $1,200.00 deposit for an

>appointment that was scheduled, canceled and rescheduled a couple of

>times.

 

No. It was more than a couple of times. First of all, I never ask for deposits (as often as I've been burned, I probably should start) nor do I charge "cancellation fees." John Williams (he posted his name here on Hooboy so I am not being indiscreet) hired me along with my partner Derek to come to Palm Springs. After he cancelled, he insisted we accept a deposit for a rescheduled job where he'd come to NYC. I held onto the check, volitionally, and did not cash it. After he then cancelled that job (and after I'd spent considerable time reserving a hotel room for us & planning a weekend of activities, at his request), I offered to tear up the check but he again insisted I cash it to 'force' him to reschedule once more. He then rescheduled & cancelled a third time, and asked for the money back, but then told me to hold the $ after all because he was going to rebook again. I did not hear from him again until a year & a half later (two years after first giving me the deposit), when he wrote to demand his money back.

 

>but always with a substantial amount of notice rather than at the

>last moment.

 

Wrong again. The third cancellation was done at the last minute, before a weekend that was set aside for him by both Derek and me.

 

>Ultimately the client requested the return of his deposit

>and after many acrimonious exchanges you offered $600.00.

 

Wrong again. There were no "acrimonious exchanges." John Williams claimed this was the case, and claimed he was going to publish these emails, but never did because they don't exist. He wrote demanding the money; I wrote that I wanted to settle this amicably, and that since the whole point of sending me the deposit was to persuade me to continually rebook knowing he wouldn't flake again & that I'd be compensated if he did, I thought $600 would be fair, and asked what he thought. His response was, "You can keep $200 and pay me $1000 by Friday or I'll do whatever I can to damage your reputation by posting the whole thing on Hooboy." I wrote back that I refused to be blackmailed or extorted, and that my reputation as an honest businessperson would speak for itself.

 

>A number of posters did indeed defend your refusal to return the

>deposit but many of them did so not because they think cancellation

>fees are a good idea but because (according to them) anyone who

>gives an escort money up front is a fool and deserves to lose his

>dough.

 

Actually, that was pretty much just your and unicorn's opinions. Most of the others seemed to think I got dicked around. Most people didn't feel he was unwise to insist I cash the check. If anything, most felt he was unwise to wait 2 years to demand his money back, and quite a few felt that I didn't owe him a cent at that point.

 

>Did you actually give Nice Guy any of the money back or did you keep

>the entire amount?

 

Do you actually ever hire escorts or do you just live vicariously through the rest of us?

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>I can't believe this is being rehashed (in a revisionist

>way) once again...by the same two people. I was going to do

>the smart thing and ignore these chronic escort-bashers but

>I keep forgetting that we have many new members here who

>might be curious about this dead topic.

 

Rick: I don't know why you even attempt to dignify the topic by replying. The nay sayers will always have their own little twisted understanding of the facts - as they do on most topics posted here - and their world crumbles if they don't have the last word on every topic they decide to chime in on.

 

Forget them - they are a total waste of skin. As for the new members, unless they have double digit IQs, they will quickly figure out what is what and draw their own conclusions.

 

Trust me on this - life is far to short to waste time on this and the world is full of much more interesting topics - such as - your glorious butt :-) which I still intend to give a tongue bath.

 

Thunderbuns