my worst nightmare

[Romann]

I doubt that but I wouldn't say anything to them. IF they were informed, they will be in touch with you but I would think that they would have done this already right after being informed. I think you're in the clear on the complex being informed.

 

I wonder if they told the leasing office at my apartment complex.

[MsGuy]

Sorry, I had to leave the board for a while to handhold a friend with a family difficulty.

 

Joseph's posts re the return of the money & the cops comments about CL and Joseph's website clarify the problem. The only good thing about this situation is that the undercover played fair (this time) by not asking for a happy ending.

 

The only truly safe thing to do at this point is to shut down and wait until the police move on to other things. Joseph, I'm thinking that you don't have a criminal record (the citations don't count). That's something worth preserving. Obviously there are several stategies to work around your present problem, but, please believe me, ALL of them involve taking on a certain degree of risk of winding up in handcuffs. Once you are on the police radar, it's just not possible to operate safely out of your apartment or to advertize for new clients, regardless of how you word the advert.

 

Guys, before you offer Joseph advice, please consider that the stuff we routinely talk about here, even an activity as innocuous as Joseph's, is regarded by the larger society as a crime and that that society controls the criminal justice system.

[Guest ryan2552]

All in all, these look like minor civil violations. The fines you might have to pay could be less than the cost of a lawyer. I do think that you should talk to lawyer. He might advise you on how to proceed on your own to settle the matter. One thing to remember, lawyers cannot undo the evidence of a crime. If you got caught red-handed, the best he can do is to try to mitigate the situation.

 

Having said all of that, I too am sorry to see that this happened to you.

 

Actually instead of writing something I just want to echo what Lucky mentioned. I feel he summed it up best. All the violations are business related thankfully not one is sexually related.

[josephga]

I did some checking on my own. these are what the tickets are for..

 

Sec. 7-252. Entrances, exits.

No massage establishment shall have an entrance or exit way providing a direct passageway to any other type of business, residence or living quarters.

 

 

Sec. 7-258. List of employees.

The massage establishment shall keep a list of the names and addresses of all employees, both on duty and off duty, and such list shall be shown to the chief of police.

 

 

Sec. 7-261. Doors, locks.

No massage shall be performed within any cubicle, room, booth, or any area within a massage establishment which is fitted with a door capable of being locked. Exterior doors may have locks, but such exterior doors shall not be locked while the massage establishment is open for business or while any massage is being performed therein.

 

 

Sec. 7-259. Keeping of records.

Every person who operates a massage establishment shall maintain an accurate record in a well-bound book of all patrons accommodated. Such records shall include the patron's name, age and current address together with the time, date and place of service, the nature of the service provided, and the name of the massager so providing this service. Every patron shall furnish proof of identity by showing a valid driver's license, voter registration certificate or similar identification, to the person that operates the massage establishment for the purpose of maintaining the accuracy of the massage establishment's record book. Such record book shall be available at all times at the massage establishment for inspection by the chief of police.

 

 

Sec. 7-295. health certificate required

[+ ArVaGuy]

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. It certainly sounds like you’ve been caught in an over zealous Craigslist crack down. Everyone here has offered very decent advice. You need to obtain legal counsel as soon as possible. Check with your local gay service organizations and see if they provide referrals.

 

Are you a CMT and licensed or not? If you have your certifications then you might have some options as far as temporary work. My massage therapist works for the local gay gym. He sees clients at the gym and shares a portion of the rate with the management. Further, he sees clients in his home but only the ones that he has seen previously at the gym or has known for years. All new clients have to see him at the gym location for a long while before he’ll consider in-calls. He’s massage only and does not offer any “extras”. You might want to consider this option if its practical for your situation.

 

 

You can and will get through this situation. It looks bleak now but you'll find strength you did not know you had in existence when this is over.

[+ purplekow]

As a more practical aid, e mail me an address and I will forward a small check to help toward your expenses. Internet scams are a dime a dozen, but you seem like a sincere and trustworthy individual and I am willing to assist you, as long as your address isn't in Nigeria and as long as it does not involve you getting my bank account number in exchange for several million dollars.

[josephga]

worst thing is i owe 17.000 in credit card debt i know i cant pay. i figured if i went too court i could put the fines on the credit card.. since credit card debt is unsecured credit they cant force me too pay it will just wreck my credit..

since im under a lease it would cost 2700.00 to get out of this apartment or i can just abandon it, that too destroy my credit. I have a friend that says i can come live with him. sell everything i own except for clothing, take the money put it with the 1500.00 i have get some used car and do out calls in the next county..

[BearDad58]

I have to agree with MSGuy that once you are on the police radar, it's just not possible to operate safely out of your apartment or to advertise for new clients, regardless of how you word the ad. Duluth is a very small town and I bet it will be quite a while until the police lose interest. My advice would be for you to move into Atlanta, that way you could do incalls and advertise openly. I hardly think the Atlanta police would take a interest in your massage operation, especially when far worse crimes and vices flourish all over that city.

 

Since you said you didn't have a car, operating inside Atlanta city limits would let you get around using subways and buses.

 

I have never known the police to give anyone a break in sting operations, so its very surprising you were only given tickets and not charged with any sexual crimes, especially since you performed a semi sexual service (massage) and were paid for it. It could be the police will file more charges later which would include the massage you did. I am not saying they will, but its something you should be prepared for.

 

I would absolutely hire a local attorney as soon as possible so you can get a idea of what you are up against.

[josephga]

As a more practical aid, e mail me an address and I will forward a small check to help toward your expenses. Internet scams are a dime a dozen, but you seem like a sincere and trustworthy individual and I am willing to assist you, as long as your address isn't in Nigeria and as long as it does not involve you getting my bank account number in exchange for several million dollars.

 

I sent you my addy in a pm. if you need me too i can photo copy of the tickets to show

[Guest greatness]

hmm

 

They didn't even check your id such as your driver license? There was a case where a surveillance van was monitoring an illegal massage parlor for 2 month after police found it out on the internet. If they didn't bother to check your license to check who you are they must have been investigating your business for a long time. Just do not provide any service at this point. Try to get a business license.

 

im sure its real the tickets are on city of duluth police department tickets.

they had their badges. all the same info you would find on my drivers license is listed on these tickets and i never showed them my license. I have to appear in court on september 22th according to the tickets

[+ g56whiz]

I'm sure in your area there is an organization of gay attorneys. I'd find them and contact them immediately. You may not be alone in this and they should be informed of what is be done to the community. As Lucky points out this does not appear to be a complex legal matter and they may have someone who will take it on pro bono or at a modest fee.

 

You should do this ASAP. You've clearly be traumatized by this. Who wouldn't be? But you need to get grounded at once before you inadvertently say or do something that would make your plight worse.

 

I hope you realize that your straight forward postings on this site over time have earned you a great degree of respect reflected in these many responses. Take heart in them. This too shall pass. A lot of us are pulling for you.

[Guest ReturnOfS]

Perhaps you can set up a pay pal account and ask if people on that site would be interested in contirbuting to your legal expenses.

 

You could maybe do the same thing by posting youtube video explaining your problem and asking for help.

[josephga]

I deleted my home page today because i know the police are watching it. I also deleted the craiglist ads. I have a pay pal account through [email protected] if anyone wants to help no matter how big or small anything would help. I also can be emailed for my address if anyone wants too help but doesn't use pay pal. I went to the gay yellow pages and emailed a few lawyers tonight to see what advise they could give. I'm totally devastated I only wanted too make others feel good, and now I'm punished for it.. I'm surprised it wasn't worse knowing how the police are. they told me it was a horrible thing and how i could be harmed and how dangerous the craiglist was.

I walk the dog and noticed a white van outside with darken windows and now I'm totally paranoid. I don't think a youtube video would be good some of those people can be cruel

[+ Lucky]

I wouldn't get too paranoid about the police. if they had wanted to make real trouble for you, they could have pursued the happy ending. Then you'd be in criminal court, not paying some fines.

[Guest bluesman]

You may have been targeted because of your craigslist ad. Law enforcement have been cracking down on advertisers there recently, esp. since some ads have been tied to some shady activities in other states. Look through your local gay rags for legal aid listings and they may be able to advise you about your options at little or no cost. Don't live in fear and don't allow yourself to feel defeated. You can survive this and move forward.

[Guest RianB]

I have 1500.00 to my name.

 

You are not broke! I would seriously take the cash of 1500 (which moves mountains in the hands of someone my age) and get the hell out of the entire Atlanta area. With that $1,500 you can be on the very next flight to the nearest major city, work out of hotels for awhile and then get another apt . Have you tried up north or even Florida?

 

the only way i can see staying in business is too do out calls only. no way will the city give a permit to give massages in a home apartment or condo.

 

But it isnt a gurantee...as we've spoken before, how popular are outcalls on craigslist? They do happen...but you and I know incalls are far more in demand. I'd go with plan A, renting various hotels...aiming for ones that the client can come directly to your room rather than walk past a receptionist.

 

 

Guys, before you offer Joseph advice, please consider that the stuff we routinely talk about here, even an activity as innocuous as Joseph's, is regarded by the larger society as a crime and that that society controls the criminal justice system.

 

Its not a crime. Although I do agree with doing a service according to the set standards (there's nasty shops out there of all varities) Its mainly a bunch of rigid regulations made in place by a bunch of greedy bimbos to make money off of people. People have a free will to go to whoever they want for ANY service. Nobody is forcing clients to go to Josephs apartment. He's not tricking anyone. But the system has perverted the real meaning of 'freedom'. Here's massage law in Vegas, which is about as liberal as it gets on this...

 

 

 

sell everything i own except for clothing, take the money put it with the 1500.00 i have get some used car and do out calls in the next county..

 

From experience, a used car can be a hassle or a hero, a plus for outcalls. But if you can stay with a roommate having a car can take the burden off only doing incalls. Like I said, outcalls do happen, but if craigslist is your source then just not as much. Hell, its incalls that I'd like to do but cant most days! Would it be better to just change your name and website/number, move to a different part of town and keep all your stuff minus money for a new apt?

 

they told me it was a horrible thing and how i could be harmed and how dangerous the craiglist was.

 

Craigslist is NOT dangerous. Theres a bunch of weirdos and time-wasters, but its no less safe than driving around at 3 am on a Saturday night, or advertising on any other site. Like I said, perverting the meaning of 'freedom' and attempted to kill craigslist at the same time. Brillant

 

 

 

I wouldn't get too paranoid about the police. if they had wanted to make real trouble for you, they could have pursued the happy ending. Then you'd be in criminal court, not paying some fines.

 

Exactly. A friend told me about the cop going 'all the way', then arresting her. This being in a city where most of the cops are corrupt anyway...

 

I cant give exact legal advice, but other than the things I mentioned how I see it. I think Atlanta sucks, its (system) is very conservative and if you live outside of the city I can imagine its that much worse. I'd seriously think about leaving town, and just paying off the tickets when you get settled. And dont fret about the credit card debt, many of us do...Cash beats credit anyday. For right now you have to do whats necessary to get back in business and make the greenbacks !

[josephga]

I haven't slept a wink all night. I can't eat i throw everything back up. and RianB

i can't just leave town and pay the tickets later if im not in court on september 22 they take a warrant out for my arrest.

[Michael Vincenzo]

I haven't slept a wink all night. I can't eat i throw everything back up. and RianB

i can't just leave town and pay the tickets later if im not in court on september 22 they take a warrant out for my arrest.

 

Hey buddy! My heart goes out to you with what you are going through. Although I have never experienced your situation, I have had plenty of seemingly end all events in my lifetime. One thing that I can assure you is that you will look back on this experience and realize that it is a blip on the radar screen of your life. You will make it through this!

 

Ride on the coat tails of my life experience and take my suggestion to center yourself, if possible, and know that everything is o.k. When things don't go as we expect them to, our vision becomes less than broad and more tunnel like. I promise you that you have it in you to get through this.

 

Go through the practical motions of what you have to do to get through this even though they really suck right now. Go to court when you are expected and don't think beyond that at all; it may not be as bad as you expect. All you can do is the next best thing that is in front of you for now. Don't panic!

 

What are you current needs right now that you have no control over? You have a community of resources here that can support you, but you have to take responsibility for the out of control scenario playing in your head. I promise you that this is a manageable issue to handle. Maybe one day I will be in the same situation as you and I certainly would like someone to assure me that all will be o.k., as it always is.

[josephga]

I went down to my leasing office this morning and talked with them. I have been here almost 7 years. my rents paid up until the end of august. but my current lease isn't up until march. because iv been here so long They are going too let me out of the lease at the end of august with no financial punishment..

[devonhunter]

Rian b - shut the hell up!

 

You are not broke! I would seriously take the cash of 1500 (which moves mountains in the hands of someone my age) and get the hell out of the entire Atlanta area. With that $1,500 you can be on the very next flight to the nearest major city, work out of hotels for awhile and then get another apt . Have you tried up north or even Florida?

 

 

 

Rian B,

 

Over the last few months I have watched you say the rudest, most insensitive comments to all sorts of people on all sorts of topics. But now... now! NOW! YOU HAVE GONE TOO FAR!! You have just advised someone to run away from the law, and to not handle the charges that have been brought against him.

 

On behalf of everyone who has been thinking it: I am now formally going to stop rolling my eyes, and tell you to SHUT THE HELL UP!

 

If you want to continue blathering about non sequitors that don't harm anyone, that's fine; however, you have just given someone advice that could land him in jail. You really ought to think MORE and talk LESS.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

Devon

[josephga]

I can't just toss every thing in a bag and head for the airport to the hotels of the big city. i have a dog for 10 years now. he cant just live in a hotel room. My only option is the get my apartment too let me out of the remaining of the lease with no punishment, write a letter to the courts and explain my financial situation and hope they will reduce or drop the charges. me with no income and at time of the hearing i will no longer be living here in duluth i hope they consider that. I have called this morning what few regulars i have contact info on and left voice messages asking to call im going to see if they can help me with a small donation. I wanted to honor those that needed to be discrete so i have very clients that i have contact info on

[Scorpio]

On behalf of everyone who has been thinking it: I am now formally going to stop rolling my eyes, and tell you to SHUT THE HELL UP!

 

If you want to continue blathering about non sequitors that don't harm anyone, that's fine; however, you have just given someone advice that could land him in jail. You really ought to think MORE and talk LESS.

 

*applause*

[Sean Knight]

Rian B,

 

Over the last few months I have watched you say the rudest, most insensitive comments to all sorts of people on all sorts of topics.

 

On behalf of everyone who has been thinking it: I am now formally going to stop rolling my eyes, and tell you to SHUT THE HELL UP!

 

You really ought to think MORE and talk LESS.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

 

And there you have it!!!

[Guest greatness]

well

 

You have to give a credit to Rian for trying to help although it wasn't a good advice. Everybody makes mistakes writing a reply very late at night and things can slip out without thinking thoroughly. I don't think Rian meant any harm.

 

Rian B,

 

Over the last few months I have watched you say the rudest, most insensitive comments to all sorts of people on all sorts of topics. But now... now! NOW! YOU HAVE GONE TOO FAR!! You have just advised someone to run away from the law, and to not handle the charges that have been brought against him.

 

On behalf of everyone who has been thinking it: I am now formally going to stop rolling my eyes, and tell you to SHUT THE HELL UP!

 

If you want to continue blathering about non sequitors that don't harm anyone, that's fine; however, you have just given someone advice that could land him in jail. You really ought to think MORE and talk LESS.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

Devon

[JT Brooklyn]

I went down to my leasing office this morning and talked with them. I have been here almost 7 years. my rents paid up until the end of august. but my current lease isn't up until march. because iv been here so long They are going too let me out of the lease at the end of august with no financial punishment..

 

Josephga..Good to hear things are slowly going your way for starters Lease Wise.

 

In NYC we have Legal Aid which no matter what is said about it..It is better than No Aid! As M.V. said Concentrate on one thing at a Time.

 

I doubt you are the First Massage Guy or Girl in this Legal situation in your AREA? Try and connect with someone who previously has gone thru this.

 

Hopefully we will be hearing good news about the situation in the future. Best of Luck!