Land of Uncut Cock, Saunas and Beautiful Men

[TotallyOz]

To the Mountain

 

Well, I met a great guy in Rio that I adore. He stayed with me almost everynight I was there. I missed him in Sao Paulo. He called today and said he missed me too. I said, ok then fly here to see me. He said OK. So, tomorrow, my favorite guy from Rio and my favorite guy from Sao Paulo get to meet. And I get to have a fucking amazing weekend!

[TotallyOz]

LaGoa

 

LAGOA

R. Borges Lagoa, 287

Vila Mariana

 

 

Lagoa is the King of saunas in Sao Paulo. When you walk in, there are 2 separate ways to enter. To the left is for the boys, they pay less to get in but they do pay. To the right is for the clients.

 

The place is a hot bed of activity. You have to be sure to check every nook and cranny to get the full effects. There is a jacuzzi are with showers, a dinning room like area with glass showers to watch the boys shower, a steam room, sauna, a movie cinema (dark and fun) several black rooms and of course private rooms. There is an outdoor area in the middle where you can sit and relax. There are chairs and tables, lounge chairs and just about everything else you can image. A small workout area for the boys is also there.

 

You can eat lunch, dinner and even watch live shows and play Bingo or Karoke. It is just a nonstop party.

 

I like to get there in the afternoon to see some of the boys that start coming. Also, many will leave after a client or two. So, get there early, stake out a place and watch the eye candy.

 

I think it is 25R to get in. Rooms are more expensive than the other places. You also pay 1.50R for each condom and lube. After a day there with 2 room, many drinks, 2 lunches and 2 entrances, it comes to about 200R. But, that was me and a date. Coke - 2.50R.

 

It is a great place and I have loads of fun there. The guys are a bit more pushy than some places but you just have to tell them you are not buying their lunch or drinks. I don't mind buying someone I like these things but many will come up and say they want food.

 

Best time to get there is around 4pm until 9pm. If you have a nice sexual appetite, get there do an afternoon boy and then get recharged for dinner. I have met all types of guys there, twinks, muscle boys, gay boys, straight men and a bit of everything in between. I have been told that the owner does not like drag queens and they are not allowed in the clubs. That is true. But, I did fine one very feminine guy that I saw everyday I was in town. I also was able to get all the guys for 50R plus tip.

 

When I took my beautiful companion for the week with me, the guys smelled money and would not go for less than 100R. I always said no and left with him 2 times disappointed. But, when I was alone, I always found what I wanted and it was always for the 50R.

 

Sitting in the cinema is fun and you will get guys site down beside you to feel their cock. I was trying to make out with a boy there once and I kept getting cocks shoved in between our lips. I only wanted to make out with my "date" but the huge dicks got in a way a bit.

 

Enjoy!

[TotallyOz]

Boy's Club

 

Boy's Club

Alameda Nothman 1218/1220

Santa Cecília

 

Boys Club is a nice sauna. It is small but there are some hot guys there. I found more my type of guy there than most of the other saunas in Sao Paulo. It is a friendly neighborhood sauna. I was the only American in there the few times I went.

 

The boys there are friendly and not pushy. Entrance was reasonable and drinks were very reasonable. I never had one guy ask me to buy them a drink.

 

I had 3 boys from there and had fun with all three of them. It is very slow in the afternoons but picks up around 7PM at night. I went in the afternoon a few times and was able to find some guys I liked there.

 

The management was nice and accomodating. They had a really nice jacuzzi but I did not see anyone in it. They had a larger workout room for the boys than I have seen in most of the saunas.

 

The neighborhood is not great but I had no problems there. The doormen always got a taxi for me and I felt safe there.

 

They did have several darker guys there than some of the places I go. I often like that and was happy to find a 22 year old black guy who was very versatile and great orally. He spoke little english but was fun in bed.

 

The bartender there is without a doubt the sexiest one in Brazil. OM he was hot! I stayed there longer just to buy him and I drinks and chat. Chat? Well, not really, he spoke on English. We were able to write words on napkins and understand each other. He was about 25 and muscular and had the Latin hunk look. I write this now and I can piture him perfectly.

 

Don't just limit yourself to Lagoa if you come to Sao Paulo. Try many of the other places as well. You will not regret it!

[TotallyOz]

Sao Paulo Wrapup

 

I spent 10 days and 9 nights in this great city. I had a great deal of fun but that was in large part due to Christyan http://www.boynextdoor.com . He was my companion for the 8 of the 9 nights I was there. He was charming, engaging and entertaining. He took me to clubs and discos and made sure I enjoyed each meal we ate.

 

Sao Paulo is much better for the saunas on the weekends. Alterosos is great on weekends and I had fun there. Lagoa is nice on most days but it does its peak days and nights. I met many boys from there that I adore and had fun with. I will say I have never been asked by so many boys to buy drinks or food. I always say no unless I am interested in them but that did not stop them asking. Boys Club was a bright suprise in my trip. I heard bad things about it but had great fun there when I went. I guess it all depends on your type and the time of day and year you go.

 

The Intercontinental in Sao Paulo is simply excellent. They are amazing, wonderful, professional, attentative and simply top-notch. I had a few issues trying to get a boy from Rio to Sao Paulo for the weekend but they jumped in and helped me out in many ways.

 

My favorite club there was Danger. I did go to several others and will try to write reviews of them for Tri's Places to go section. But, Danger is my favorite. It was fun and the lively atmosphere kept me entertained!

 

I love Brazilian men. They are fun on the streets and in the bars and coffee shops. I met many outside of the saunas that just wanted to chat and hang out. I think if I were going to live in a city full-time in Brazil, it may be Sao Paulo as it is just a great city with tons of things to do that I enjoy.

 

BTW: The first day I got there I met this great guy at Alterosos. He was so hot and I wanted him so bad. But, he said he was active only and would not bottom ever. When I went back yesterday, he saw I was a regular there and with a boy from Sao Paulo who had been with me for over a week. He said he thought about it and would bottom for me with no problem. I had fun with him and tipped him generously. Can't bottom? Hell, he is better at it that most I have met. I guess it is simply a matter of motivation.

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: Sao Paulo Wrapup

 

Muito Obrigado, Oz, for permitting me/us in living some of your experiences vicariously during your most recent stay in the world's third largest city! :9

 

I know that I have enjoyed myself during my two stays there and yearn to be back to re-experience culturally as well as sexually.

 

Just the other day a friend of mine wrote two reviews of escorts he'd seen while he was in SAMPA; well, while reading the reviews as well as his email -- I sat in my overheated study and seriously wanted to be in that natural relatively warm climate and ambiance that you'd undergone and written.

 

Thanks again, and as I've related previously: continue to get the upmost from all of your wonderful experiences! :-) :9 :-)

[jackhammer91406]

TOz

Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us.

Brings back some pleasant memories.

[TotallyOz]

M4M'ers

 

Have been back in Rio for a few days and having fun as always in Brazil. I got an e-mail from a fellow M4M'er to meet for drinks. It was our first meeting and I throughly enjoyed sitting and chatting about the boys and foreign lands. It is always enjoyable to hear other perspectives. It was also nice that we have opposite tastes and would not be competing for boys.

 

Sitting with my new friend at Corijuna's was relaxing and nice. Since we have been to many of the same places, it was nice to compare notes. Part of the great service this site does is not only to let guys meet up with escorts but it is wonderful for putting together strangers in a foreign land who have common interests.

 

As the night wrapped up, I commented that I did not pick up street guys as I did not know them and did not want them in my hotel. As my friend left, I got up and was greeted by a nice group of guys from Brazil who I see in the saunas often. They are also guys who like the sauna boys and we always have fun chatting. One of them invited a friend over who wanted to meet me and for me to take him home. I said, "Sorry, but I don't take guys I don't know to the hotel." He understood and agreed with me. He said he also knew the guy and it would be no problem. No thanks I said.

 

Less than 20 minutes later, a cute guy walked by that caught my attention. I spend less than one minute holding hands with him and knew I wanted him. It was after 1am and I knew I shouldn't be taking anyone back with me this late but I wanted him. I asked a female friend from USA who speaks the language here to ask the guy what he wanted to go to hotel with me. The guy wanted 50R for an hour or two or 200R for the night. I said, "fine." We jumped into the taxi and headed for my hotel.

 

On the way back I wondered what it must have looked like for me to tell 2 different groups that I was not taking someone I didn't know to my hotel. Well, I guess all rules are meant to be broken.

 

My night with my new found guy was awsome and we are meeting up again tomorrow night. And tomorrow night I won't feel like a hypocrite as I know the guy. My mind certaintly does work in mysterious ways but it is a good way for me to rationalize having him for another overnight.

[Big Daddy]

RE: M4M'ers

 

There are usually a large group of available guys at Corrujinha's each night. Many of them also work at the saunas. You will probably be ok picking one of the guys as long as you know someone who can vouch for them. Who knows, you may find someone very special. The first time I saw Wan Hallen was at Corrujinha's the first night of my first trip to Brasil.

 

I speak with Wan Hallen every day. I had complained earlier in this forum how he is addicted to the telephone. On the upside, it is really nice for meu bebito to call and just say "eu tem muito saldade pra voce, eu te amo muito muito mutio. Most of you know what a void he filled in my heart. Recently, he has been putting down his feeling in e-mail notes. For the first time in my life, I got a love letter. He expressed things to me that I had longed all my life to hear. Before I get nasty notes posted here, telling me how stupid I am, I am fully aware that I am a walking, talking, muito horny ATM machine, and yes I take very good care of him, especially by Brasilian standards.

 

Currently, planning on spending the month of May with him in Rio and also some side trips. Currently, I am putting together a recovery program in Rio for mostly gingos. I will be working with a well established clinic in Baja. Cannot think of a better place to get sober than in magical Rio de Janiero. The interesting selling point for Americans is that the entire cost of the trip can be a write off. Once we get this going, I will be able to head south as frequently as TomCal. If I cannot get Wan Hallen to Arizona, then I will create the circumstances for me to be with him in Brasil.

[imrthr]

RE: M4M'ers

 

>The interesting selling point for Americans is that

>the entire cost of the trip can be a write off.

 

 

 

I hope you are not serious when you advise readers on this board that the entire cost of a Brazilian vacation can be a "write-off" (I assume you mean a "tax" write-off).

 

Among other things, the Internal Revenue Code restricts tax deductions by applying the "primary purpose rule" to the amount claimed on a tax return. It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to convince an auditor that such a tax deduction is bonafide.

 

Even if the tax deduction were to pass the "primary purpose rule" (which it would not) the taxpayer would be required to reduce the "deduction" by the statutory amount of seven and one-half percent of his or her Adjusted Gross Income. This reduction could be substantial and negates your assertion that the "entire cost of the trip" would be a write-off.

 

I assume that your selling point to the gringos is that payments for your services would be a medical expense despite the fact that the treatments are given in and around the saunas in Brazil and that the main reason for chosing Brazil for medical treatments are the saunas and the sauna boys.

 

I would not want to claim such a deduction on my tax return and I hope that others who receive your offer check with their tax advisors before agreeing to your offer.

 

On the other hand, perhaps your posting was meant as a joke. If it was, it was somewhat amusing although some people may not find it so.

[trilingual]

RE: M4M'ers

 

If the recovery program is "inpatient" and the clinic is located in Barra, I doubt many users would be getting to the saunas. Also, Big Daddy didn't say the recovery program was designed for "gays only," although that could be a possibility. I don't think the recovery program he runs in Arizona involves sauna therapy, and he didn't say his program here would, either! My understanding is that substance abuse recovery programs are deductible medical expenses, and travel expenses incident to receiving medical treatment are also deductible. (Please correct me if I'm in error.) An extended stay at a recovery center isn't cheap (even in Brazil) so it could very well reach or exceed the 7.5% of income threshold on medical deductions in U.S. tax law.

 

Big Daddy's own travel to Brazil to establish and supervise the treatment center also may be deductible as a business expense, provided those are the primary reasons for the travel. If Wan Hallen happens to be in Rio at the same time Big Daddy is establishing or supervising his treatment program, and is spending his nights with Big Daddy, that isn't relevant to the I.R.S. (a signed vow of chastity isn't required as part of the documentation on business trips).

 

By establishing a treatment center in Rio, Big Daddy may become eligible for an investor's visa granting permanent residence in Brazil. The requirements have just recently been reduced to an investment of US$50,000 in Brazil and a promise to create 10 jobs for Brazilians within two years of establishing the enterprise. (This second requirement, I'm told by Brazilians, is probably unenforceable in the event such jobs aren't created.)

 

Of course, if you become a permanent resident in Brazil you also become subject to Brazilian tax law, and Brazilian taxes are high (SOMEBODY's got to keep those corrupt politicians in spending money). On the other hand, the first US$70,000 (?) in foreign income earned by an American residing abroad isn't taxable in the U.S. (although that may only kick in after residing abroad for more than a year -- an important point to check). Any Brazilian tax on the Brazilian income can be credited against your U.S. income tax. Some other Brazilian taxes (like the IPTU property tax) can also be deducted (not credited) on your U.S. tax return.

 

As you can see, there can be some interesting tax considerations for those Americans thinking about living and investing in Brazil.

 

Under recent changes in Brazilian immigration law, Wan Hallen could also sponsor Big Daddy for a permanent residence visa as his spousal-equivalent. Before anyone jumps on that bandwagon, though, they MUST consult with a Brazilian lawyer specializing in family law to understand all the legal obligations and responsibilities entailed in such a relationship. As in all "civil law" countries, community property is the norm, and spouses and nearest kin have certain mandatory inheritance rights to 50% of a decedent's estate. Pre-nuptial agreements establishing separate property or some other arrangement are possible (and common) in civil law countries, but some statutory rights, like the inheritance rights, can't be waived through such agreements. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from establishing a permanent relationship with a Brazilian, but there are consequences to consider, as you can see!

[imrthr]

Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

Tri, most of your postings on this board are informative and, for the most part, accurate. However, your response in this instance missed its mark.

 

If anyone follows your interpretation of the rules and deducts such a trip to Brazil and claims travel as a medical expense deduction, that person could face a probable disallowance of the travel deduction plus a penalty and interest (there would be no problem with the fees paid to a bona fide medical facility).

 

An aggressive auditor could add an additional penalty for “wilful disregard of rules and regulations” for taking such a deduction.

 

It is true that an “inpatient” at a bona fide medical facility can deduct the travel to the facility as well as the amounts actually paid to the facility for treatment. BUT, the test does not stop at such a simple statement. The rules are quite complex.

 

The Internal Revenue Code (and case law) makes it clear that such a deduction is not allowable for a number of reasons. The most glaring reasons are as follows:

 

o Primary purpose test - What was the real reason the patient traveled to Brazil to take the treatment? Could the patient not obtain similar treatment in the United States?

 

o If the patient spent more than 25% of his time away from the medical facility, the travel would be disallowed but the fee paid to the facility would be allowed. You must ask yourself, why would a patient travel to Brazil and not spend more than 25% of his time away from the medical facility? What would be the point of traveling to Brazil if you spent most of your time (more than 75%) in a treatment facility?

 

No reasonable IRS agent would believe that the primary purpose for going to Brazil would be for a substance abuse problem, particularly a non Portuguese speaking patient seeking such treatment in a foreign country.

 

In view of the above, I ask, what is the benefit to playing this sort of charade in order to get a tax deductible trip to Brazil. The audit risks are too great.

 

As I have previously written, this board is, for the most part, a wonderful storehouse for sharing ACCURATE information. The type of information that could land you in tax court is not what I would expect to be supported on this board.

 

Tri, your friend sftravelr is a tax attorney. Confirm the above with him. I feel confident that he would not recommend such a scheme to any of this clients.

 

Thus, I repeat, the posting I quoted here “The interesting selling point for Americans is that

the entire cost of the trip can be a write off.” is false.

 

Cheers

[trilingual]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

I gather you're a tax professional, and I certainly defer to your superior knowledge. However, you appear to be responding based on the assumption that patients traveling to a foreign facility for medical treatment in fact have other motives, and I think that's unfounded. Americans seek medical care abroad for any number of legitimate (and therefore deductible) reasons. I'm not aware that there's a requirement that you can only deduct the cheapest care available in your own home town. Many Americans (particularly those without medical insurance) seek care outside the U.S. because it's considerably cheaper, and the cost of that care is deductible if it exceeds the 7.5% threshold.

 

When it comes to substance treatment facilities, it's often considered therapeutic for the abuser to remove himself from his community and social network, which often enable his abuse. A substance abuse program in Brazil for English-speakers (which is what I understand Big Daddy is proposing) would certainly meet that therapeutic purpose. The actual cost of being at such a facility, given the lower labor costs in Brazil, would probably be much cheaper than in the U.S. Cheap enough, in fact, that even factoring in the air fare it would still be significantly more affordable than similar programs in the U.S.

 

As for time spent outside the facility, my general understanding (perhaps Big Daddy can enlighten us on this) is that residential substance abuse programs pretty much confine the patients to the premises, or allow only limited excursions outside (as a reward for progress). If someone checks themselves into a residential program for a month, and goes out once or twice a week for a 3 - 4 hour excursion (whether to sight-see, shop or get laid) that would be far under the 25% threshold you cite in terms of the time spent.

 

I agree with you that persons contemplating such a program and interested in its tax implications should consult their tax advisors to see how it affects their own personal situation. But based on your posting, I don't think there should be a problem for someone enrolled in a bona-fide residential recovery program, whether it's located in Breckenridge or Barra da Tijuca.

[Big Daddy]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

IMRTHR, Besides the fact that you are rude and offensive, please get your facts correct before you start posting garbage. I operate a well respected clinical treatment program. It is state of the art and well known in the treatment community. I do not know how you inferred that potential clients would be there solely for the purpose of going to saunas and other activities normally associated with a vacation.

 

In discussing the possibility of offering treatment in Brasil with my CPA and attorney, both agreed that in general the expenses associated with such treatment are a medical deduction. Americans by the tens of thousands routinely seek medical treatment in foreign locations, for a great many reasons, including for example discretion. I fully realize that we have quite a bit of research to complete, both here and in Brasil. We will be working with a well established, highly regarded Brasilian clinic that will follow our treatment protocols. We will have absolutely no difficulty documenting the validity of the program. Our credentials are beyond reproach. This is a business investment and has nothing to do with saunas or trying to circumvent tax laws. We intend to use the regulations that exist, to the advantage of potential clients.

 

I regrete mentioning our plans in this forum. I really do not mean to stir up a bunch of shit for guys here who have nothing better to do.

[buckguy]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

There actually is a huge market for medical care in relatively low cost countries and even if youinitially market to Americans, you'd be surprised who else comes. Thailand has taken advantage of this and their tourism authority is even highlighting health care as a reason to visit. Plastic surgery, sex re-assignement and certain other procedures can be done there by US or UK board certified physicians for a fraction of the cost "at home". Brazil seems to be trying to attract this, but in a less systematic way. The Thais get a lot of middle easterners. Treatment for a stigmatizing condition like substance abuse could probably tap into markets like that.....people from countries where substance use and abuse is such a taboo that you can't find or wouldn't consider getting treatment close to home. OTOH, there are drawbacks to flying off for substance abuse treatment. The notion that you have to get out of the environment, though, is problematic. Treating someone and then putting them back in their environment is a recipe for relapse...with substance abuse and psychiatric conditions. You'd need to consider some way to provide continuity of care through relationships with outpatient programs in the US or any other "native" country as they may exists (this would be tough with,e.g., Muslim countries).

[sf traveler]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

I just have a couple of points to make here. First, we all seem to agree that medical deductions are only allowed to the extent that they exceed 7.5% of a taxpayer's adjusted gross income. That's income after deduction of so-called "above the line" deductions like charitable and home mortgage interest. Congress has made things so complicated over the last few years, it's impossible to know precisely how to express this without doing a complete calculation of an individual taxpayer's situation. Thus, assuming a taxpayer had an adjusted gross income of $80,000 his medical deduction would be limited to the amount exceeding $6,000. The poster is correct that the primary purpose of the trip would have to be the medical treatment for travel etc to be deductible, but I can well imagine establishing this to the satisfaction of an IRS auditor. First, the overall cost, even including the airfare, may well be less than the cost in the US, given the lower Brazilian cost structure. This alone supplies a perfectly good reason to go overseas. Also, I'm sure Big Daddy's facility will have recognized international certification so that the auditor would be able to verify that it is in fact a bona fide treatment center. Travel which is "primarily for and essential to" medical care is allowed as part of the deduction. Assuming you don't stay materially longer than the treatment program, you shouldn't have any problem. Lodging away from hone is only deductible if there is no significant element of personal pleasure, recreation or vaction in the travel and I don't really know how this relates to in-patient treatment programs, but I'm sure Big Danny's experts have figured that one out.

 

And don't forget the best tax planning of all--get your regular helath insurance to pay for it! SF Traveler

[imrthr]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

>IMRTHR, Besides the fact that you are rude and offensive,

>please get your facts correct before you start posting

>garbage. I operate a well respected clinical treatment

>program. It is state of the art and well known in the

>treatment community. I do not know how you inferred that

>potential clients would be there solely for the purpose of

>going to saunas and other activities normally associated with

>a vacation.

>

>In discussing the possibility of offering treatment in Brasil

>with my CPA and attorney, both agreed that in general the

>expenses associated with such treatment are a medical

>deduction.

 

_______________________________________________________________

 

My posting was not intended to be rude. Rather, my posting was intended to advise other readers of a potential serious tax problem if they were to follow the cavalier statement you made in your initial posting wherein you stated, among other things,

 

"The interesting selling point for Americans is that

the entire cost of the trip can be a write off."

 

I did not state that your clients would be at your clinic solely for the purpose of going to saunas and other activities normally associated with a vacation. You misread my posting.

 

What I attempted to do through my posting was to help other readers understand the problems they could create for themselves if they acted positively on your posting which stated that the "entire cost" would be deductible, when it is not.

 

Based on numerous prior postings you made on this board, you repeatedly boasted about your sexual behavior in the saunas.

 

Because you repeatedly admitted over the last year or so that all your prior trips to Brazil include frequent visits to the saunas and with the sauna boys, what else would any reasonable person who reads this board and your postings, conclude from your statement "The interesting selling point for Americans is that the entire cost of the trip can be a write off?"

 

Given the facts and circumstances, it is reasonable to conclude that your posting was a "selling point" (to use your own words) or a sells gimmick to convince future patients into believing that they can deduct the cost of their Brazilian vacation provided the vacation includes an inpatient stay at your clinic.

 

You also wrote "In discussing the possibility of offering treatment in Brasil with my CPA and attorney, both agreed that [in general] the expenses associated with such treatment are a medical deduction."

 

I do not disagree that "in general" such expenses would be a medical deduction. I did not say that the fees paid for medical care would not be a medical deduction. I said that the TRAVEL would be disallowed because the "facts and circumstances" test and the "primary purpose test" would most likely lead to the conclusion that the trip was really a vacation. This, of course, depends on the length of the trip together with the length of time of the medical care (number of days) compared to the length of time your patients stay in Brazil.

 

Let me say, YES, the amount paid to your clinic would be a medical expense, if facts and circumstances determine that your clinic is bona fide, and that the amounts billed by your clinic were actually paid by the patient. NO, the travel would not pass the muster if the length of the patients’ trip allowed for more than twenty-five percent of the time (days) not an as inpatient at your facility.

 

In an audit, if IRS were to get access to your numerous postings that you made about your activities in the Brazilian saunas together with the posting where you boasted about the "selling point for Amercians," no reasonable auditor would believe that your patients traveled to Brazil for the primary purpose to obtain substance abuse treatments. It is time to get real and stop kidding about this matter.

[trilingual]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

Frankly, I doubt the IRS revenue agency spends its time reading this board, so their association of Big Daddy's postings about his recreational activities in Brazil with his proposed business venture isn't very likely. Unless you're offering to bring it to the IRS's attention yourself? Also, please re-read your original posting. You did say (or clearly implied) that the purpose of Big Daddy's patients in coming to Brazil wouldn't really be for treatment, it would be to write-off their sauna romps, and that would be wrong.

 

However, you seem to keep mixing apples and oranges. What Big Daddy does with his own time, on his own vacations to Brazil (and so far they've involved extensive sauna time), has nothing to do with what substance abuse patients coming to Brazil for treatment would be doing. They're entirely separate things.

 

As you and other posters have noted, if the treatment center Big Daddy establishes in Brazil is a bone fide facility, treatment costs will be deductible as a medical expense, providing the cost exceeds 7.5% of the taxpayer's AGI. So will travel to and from Brazil, provided the taxpayer doesn't spend more than 25% of his total time outside the U.S. in activities other than treatment. However, that means that someone who spends a month in residential treatment could stay in Brazil for another week without exceeding that 25% limitation. That's pretty elementary math, and that's coming from someone like yours truly who has trouble balancing his own checkbook!

 

In one sense imrthr is correct, in that Big Daddy's casual statement on this board about the travel and treatment expenses being completely deductible are an exaggeration, because of the 7.5% threshold. But it doesn't appear that Big Daddy's incorrect that the travel expenses could be deductible, if the threshold is reached, and I'm sure that's what he actually meant. Of course, whether any particular travel costs are deductible depends entirely on the taxpayer's behavior before and/or after receiving treatment, because it's up to the taxpayer to decide whether or not to breach the 25% time limit in non-treatment-related activities.

 

As for lodging costs while in treatment, that's usually included in the price of the program. Hospitals charge room rent separately from the medical services they provide, and that's a deductible cost, so the cost of staying at a treatment center where living at the facility is an integral part of the program would also appear to be deductible, for the same reason. In fact, my understanding is that you could stay in a suite at the Copacabana Palace if you wished, while obtaining deductible medical treatment for which you'd travelled to Brazil, and the hotel bill would be deductible, too, if the primary purpose of the trip was the medical treatment. That's no different than being able to deduct hotel costs in Rochester, MN if you fly to Mayo's for outpatient tests or treatment. The IRS doesn't require you to stay at Motel 6 in these situations!!!

 

As long as a patient at Big Daddy's bona-fide treatment center can show receipts for the cost of his treatment and the length of his stay, and the patient doesn't stay in Brazil beyond the 25% time limitation, his treatment costs and air fare expenses would be deductible, even if he spends the entire remainder of his allowable time in Brazil wallowing in the saunas, trying to beat Tomcal's record! I doubt that this is the example that will appear in the next IRS publication illustrating medical deductions, but it appears to be accurate, based on what imrthr and SF Traveller have posted and my own (admittedly amateur) understanding of tax law.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Re: Subway abuse in Brazil

 

"...and my own (admittedly amateur) understanding of tax law"

 

Aren't some things best left to the experts in the field?

[imrthr]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

>Frankly, I doubt the IRS revenue agency spends its time

>reading this board, so their association of Big Daddy's

>postings about his recreational activities in Brazil with his

>proposed business venture isn't very likely. Unless you're

>offering to bring it to the IRS's attention yourself? Also,

>please re-read your original posting. You did say (or clearly

>implied) that the purpose of Big Daddy's patients in coming to

>Brazil wouldn't really be for treatment, it would be to

>write-off their sauna romps, and that would be wrong.

>

>However, you seem to keep mixing apples and oranges. What Big

>Daddy does with his own time, on his own vacations to Brazil

>(and so far they've involved extensive sauna time), has

>nothing to do with what substance abuse patients coming to

>Brazil for treatment would be doing. They're entirely

>separate things.

_____________________________________________________________

 

There is nothing to be gained by keeping this angry discussion going. I have not changed my mind despite your well intended but misplaced interpretation of tax laws.

 

The only thing more I want to add to what I have written is to say that I have spent many years in the practice of tax law and I have made a very good living at doing such. Moreover I have taught tax and related subjects at a major university for many years.

 

You can tap dance all you want with your misinformation but the fact remains that credibility is a major element when confronted by the IRS. Given the facts and circumstances of the original posters admitted behavior in Brazil coupled with his posted boasting about a tax deduction as a selling point to induce patients to his clinic, tends to belie the credibility of his endeavor.

[noviceny]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

Big Daddy,

 

I would offer two suggestions for your consideration :

 

 

1) Consider starting your own sauna inside the confines of your treatment center. It is important to keep the mind occupied, and perhaps an hour of sauna time could be a substitute for NA or AA meetings :-)

 

2) Im a licensed social worker and would love to be on your staff :-)

Just kidding since chemical dependency is not my specialty...best of luck to you !!!

[trilingual]

RE: Re: Substance abuse facility in Brazil

 

>The only thing more I want to add to what I have written is to

>say that I have spent many years in the practice of tax law

>and I have made a very good living at doing such. Moreover I

>have taught tax and related subjects at a major university for

>many years.

>

>You can tap dance all you want with your misinformation but

>the fact remains that credibility is a major element when

>confronted by the IRS. Given the facts and circumstances of

>the original posters admitted behavior in Brazil coupled with

>his posted boasting about a tax deduction as a selling point

>to induce patients to his clinic, tends to belie the

>credibility of his endeavor.

 

Then please answer this: Is YOUR credibility as a tax lawyer and advisor contradicted by the fact that YOU have engaged in the same behavior Big Daddy has? Frequenting a website dedicated to male prostitution? Having a fling or two in Brazil saunas or hiring escorts back home (a definite violation of law in 49 U.S. states)?

 

I'm sure your answer would be "NO," because what you do in your private life doesn't affect your extensive knowledge of tax law or your professional competence to give tax advice. Similarly, what Big Daddy does in his private life doesn't carry over into his professional endeavors (as far as I know). The two things are separate, just as most of us keep our private lives and our work lives separate.

 

As far as "boasting" about a tax deduction as a selling point for his proposed treatment center, there's nothing improper about informing potential customers that the costs could be tax deductible. That's a fact, as you yourself have admitted upon sober reflection. (OK, bad choice of words!) It's also a common selling point for many products and services, as there is NOTHING illegal or improper about legitimate tax avoidance. In this case, it's also important to the success of the venture that potential customers be informed of that fact, because the "average" U.S. taxpayer is usually NOT aware that the medical deduction applies to medical expenses incurred ANYWHERE, and not just in the U.S.

 

The casual way Big Daddy expressed himself on this board about the deductibility of such treatment expenses is the way people commonly speak about tax issues informally. He has been in the substance abuse treatment and rehabilitation field long enough to know that what is actually communicated to clients must be accurate, and Big Daddy certainly knows about the 7.5% of AGI threshold for deductions. He also knows, I presume, about the 25% time threshold, as he currently operates a recovery center in Arizona, another destination that could raise eyebrows, particularly in the winter. I'm sure he advises out-of-town patients that they can't spend a lot of extra time playing golf or perfecting their tan or shopping in Scottsdale without jeapordizing their ability to deduct their expenses.

 

I guess what bothers me is the contempt you show in your descriptions of Big Daddy's vacation adventures in Brazil (not, I believe, dissimilar to your own), and your leaping to the conclusion that the only possible purpose of his proposed treatment center here would be to provide other guys with a phony way to try to write off their sex vacations when he said nothing of the sort. In fact, a number of the posters on this board visit Brazil frequently, and primarily, for legitimate business purposes (ordering clothing for the retail chain with which they're associated, or doing systems consulting work for Brazilian firms, for example). Are they also contemptible because they combine business with pleasure? Just because they've posted here about their experiences in Brazil can you leap to the assumption that the only real reason they come to Brazil is to wallow in saunas and not to conduct business? Are their business travel and expenses less deductible on their (or their companies) tax returns because they go to the saunas or hire escorts after work?

 

I only ask that you reflect on some of the things you've written; that you not heap scorn on other posters for enjoying activities you yourself have engaged in; and that you not inflate informal, casual statements that people may make into plans for vast, illegal schemes! I'm sure you understand how silly that is, and unbecoming to a person of your experience and standing.

[trilingual]

LOCKING THREAD

 

Guys, I'm locking this thread for two reasons:

 

1) It's grown so long it takes an eternity to download, and

 

2) It's started to go off track.

 

Feel free to start a new thread continuing these discussions, or on a totally new topic!