Response to PickWick

[Rod Hagen]

__________________________________________________

Pickwick wrote in the Deli: I don't usually take what escorts say about themselves at face value, but assuming that what you've said about your educational and professional background is true you are also one of the few escorts I've heard of who could have a real career (I don't count folding shirts at Structure, giving massages or tending bar as careers). So why don't you? Didn't you once post that you started escorting part time while you were in a relationship, that you lied to your partner about it and almost lost him, and that you ultimately gave up your engineering work to be a prostitute full time? What is it about being a prostitute that you find so attractive that you would give up a real career and risk losing a relationship in order to do it?

__________________________________________________

 

Hey Pick,

I decided to answer your question in plain view. I'm familiar enough with your postings to spare you the usual "I am an escort solely to give joy to others" story; you wouldn't buy it anyway. I don't need to justify why I do it, but your question is genuine and sincere, so here it goes.

 

Actually, the reasons are simple and I've voiced them here before: I'm lazy, and escorting gives me lots of free time. I really enjoy working out, escorting allows me to spend LOTS of time in the gym. I am most likely a sex addict, and escorting gives me an outlet and an excuse. I LIVE for my sports, and escorting gives me time to Ski, and Bike, and Climb, and run and jump, and skip all day. I have an ego and escorting feeds into it-it does for escorts, theater performers, artists, anybody whose work is admired, artist or not, and I don’t really see what’s so surprising about that. I refuse to earn lots of money for someone else anymore, escorting allows me to be a free agent (and before you say it, so would have using my education to start my own company as so many with similar frustrations have done).

 

At first the traveling was gratifying (my engineering company was ridiculously cheap when it came to traveling) but that has gotten a bit old and I do not do that anymore. And many of you will remember how pissy I got when I wasn’t seen as “the best”, kind of like a John Ramsey before the Internet truly leveled the playing field. Well, the competition aspect of escorting was appealing to me, but I did realize that I could not be seen as the best and still maintain my confrontational, no ass-kissing, tell it like it is personality, and so I decided that never backing down was preferable to trying to be the best (which really means nothing given that there are no industry standards—oh who am I kidding? VOTE FOR ME!) I never set out to specialize in deflowering virgins and turning tops into bottoms, but along the way I found that tops were much more interested in attempting to bottom if they were “faced” with a smaller dick on a man who was patient, gentle, and understanding (bottoming is a total pain in the ass for me). I didn’t plan that I’d be the one young (I started giving discounts to those between 18 and 25 about a year ago) and older virgins would trust to experiment with. These “didn’t know where to turn” scenarios were extremely gratifying to my own arrogant nature, and to that bit of me that likes tight butts, and to that part of me that genuinely likes to be helpful when I can (I am a farmer from Minnesota after all ).

 

And yes the stock response "I get to meet lots of interesting people" is actually true; plant operation managers are bores.

 

Am I utilizing my hard earned and expensive degrees? No, I'm not at all. As complicated as some like to make Escorting sound, it's really quite simple I think. I've ALWAYS said that. Am I risking losing the love of my life, my monkey? No. Am I REALLY hurting him? oh yeah (BTW I did not almost lose him when I 'fessed up, it was actually a very liberating experience for both of us as he already knew I was fucking around). So why continue to hurt my lover's feelings and throw away 7 years of education for something that could get me killed? Well-and pay close attention because this is where you bitter and obviously self-loathing men, Blink, Sports, Jackboy, Donnie, et al, who will most certainly die alone (though not soon enough for me) can insert something REALLY clever-Well, I never claimed I would do this forever.

[Guest alanm]

Very good response. Few escorts have been so blunt and direct about why they do what they do. I know that the posting took a lot of thought, I appreciate your decision to just "tell it like it is."

[+ Lucky]

It is a good response, you seem to know yourself well, bad points in particular.

The "never back down" approach sometimes misses, as it did recently in your exchange with me. I did think you handled it well though.

So, enjoy what you are doing. It is nice to know that a man can be happy in his profession, make different choices than others, go against the grain, and still please some people along the way.

[Will]

I also truly enjoyed reading that post and am grateful to you for your straightforward, unalloyed honesty. Like others, I too have wondered why you gave up the security of a professional job for the unpredictable fortunes of an escort's life. To me, however, being an engineer who works with plant managers sounds like the quickest route to brain-death from boredom. Insecure it may be, but surely an escort's career isn't dull. (Is it????) Many thanks again.

[Guest pickwick]

>Hey Pick,

>I decided to answer your question in plain view. I'm

>familiar enough with your postings to spare you the usual "I

>am an escort solely to give joy to others" story; you

>wouldn't buy it anyway. I don't need to justify why I do

>it, but your question is genuine and sincere, so here it

>goes.

 

Thanks for responding. I asked you for two reasons. One is, as I said, that you are just about the only escort I've encountered who seems capable of doing something real with his life. The other is that I think you are the only escort to post here regularly who would be likely to provide a straight answer to such a question.

 

 

>Am I utilizing my hard earned and expensive degrees? No, I'm

>not at all. As complicated as some like to make Escorting

>sound, it's really quite simple I think. I've ALWAYS said

>that.

 

I've always suspected that people who try to make being a prostitute sound like an intellectual challenge are just bullshitting. Thanks for confirming that.

 

 

>Am I risking losing the love of my life, my monkey?

>No. Am I REALLY hurting him? oh yeah (BTW I did not almost

>lose him when I 'fessed up, it was actually a very

>liberating experience for both of us as he already knew I

>was fucking around).

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I recall you saying that he confronted you with the accusation that you were cheating on him and that you lied at first but ultimately told the truth. It sounded to me as though there was some sort of scene that almost led to a breakup. That is why I said you "almost lost" him.

 

>So why continue to hurt my lover's

>feelings and throw away 7 years of education for something

>that could get me killed?

 

 

If I may summarize your answer to the last question, you are doing it simply to gratify various personal appetites and desires. Right?

 

Well, to each his own. To me, your description on the Muscle Service message board of what you do as an escort sounds incredibly boring as well as trivial. Being a civil engineer who focuses on environmental problems, on the other hand, sounds interesting and important. Do you plan to return to it when your age makes it impossible to continue escorting?

[Guest JT]

Thank you for such an honest and direct response. It's good to hear and understand why someone would choose to escort (despite other potentially "promising" career opportunities) and that they're truly at ease and happy with their decision.

 

 

JT

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>Insecure it may be, but surely an

>escort's career isn't dull.

 

I think it takes guts to walk away from a career and take on escorting as Rod and others have done. The indpendence and adventure are alluring. I see it as a bed of roses -- thorns and all. I also think it will takes guts to do the reverse when the time comes.

[Guest jeffOH]

Bravo Rod!

 

Escorting has been a great experience for me over the past decade. It is not the most intellectually stimulating job I have ever had, but it has been the most interesting. It has also allowed me the luxury of "getting to know myself" in a spiritual context. I simply have more time to ponder my existence in this universe. There is something quite liberating about not playing the game as it is set up.

 

I was bored to death working retail management, but I chose to do something that wasn't socially acceptable. One of my favorite writers,

Joseph Campbell, said, "Follow your Bliss". That is what I have been doing and next I believe my bliss will lead me to some sort of job where I am able to counsel others.

 

JEFF

jeff4hire@aol.com

[Rod Hagen]

This has gone SO much better than I predicted. I thought this post would be the end of me (if only). But it seems I have more folks in my camp than I thought. I guess they've all been fooled, eh Sports, JackoffBoy, Donnie, Blink?

 

> Do you plan to return to it when your age makes it impossible >to continue escorting?

 

Jesus, no way do I plan to do this until age becomes a factor. I advertise as 28 going on 29, so assume the real age is somewhere very near that (those here who know me well will attest to that). Given the longevity of some escorts (look at Mickey squires, that stud is like 52) it's something that I could physically do for another 25 years. Oh god please no, I can hear some of you saying. Well rest assured, I've always approached escorting from a John-Preston perspective, for me it's something REALLY fun to do in the interim. I have no idea what's next, I certainly won't be another cog in a large machine that makes millions for the few men at the top. But I've never been interested in escorting for the long haul, it's a blast, but it's just not challenging enough for me. It takes somebody more special than I am to stick with it indefinitely. And like Shamus I am sure I will pine for it when it's gone.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>I think it takes guts to walk away from a career and take on

>escorting as Rod and others have done. The indpendence and

>adventure are alluring. I see it as a bed of roses -- thorns

>and all. I also think it will takes guts to do the reverse

>when the time comes.

 

I would think that "when the time comes" to stop escorting, there is a good possability that one could retire.

 

If you are good at what you do and have enough smarts not to spend every dime you make on a high flying lifestyle, you can rack up a fair amount of $$ over a ten year period. Properly invested it can be turned into a very considerable sum. And if you happen to be hired by

executives who are in the know, I'm sure some very lucrative investment tips would come your way. Not exactly insider trading but

damn good advice. (Having a good broker too is esseential)

 

And let's call a spade a spade. Although most escorts claim that they do file income tax returns, I find it impossible to believe that the opportunity to hide a large amount of your income is not taken advantage of.

 

It should be very possible that by age 35 - 40, you could retire and never have to work again - unless you wanted to. Certainly an enviable position to be in!

 

Thunderbuns

[Will]

>It should be very possible that by age 35 - 40, you could

>retire and never have to work again - unless you wanted to.

>Certainly an enviable position to be in!

>

Damn!!! I missed my calling. Here I am working my butt off (well, some escorts work their butts off, too) for a profession that I wasn't even qualified to practice until I was thirty-four!

 

Why don't one of you stock-broker types on the board start a little mutual fund or whatever for working boys? Maybe they'd trade in barter. Tit for tat, as it were.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

T Buns

 

>It should be very possible that by age 35 - 40, you could

>retire and never have to work again - unless you wanted to.

>Certainly an enviable position to be in!

>

How much do you consider necessary to retire comfortably, not lavishly?? My estmiate US$1,000,000 ... twice that would be nice. We are talking either Hillary R. C. type investments here or long term building, way after 35-40. If I'm missing something please clue me in.

 

:-)

[Rod Hagen]

>It should be very possible that by age 35 - 40, you could

>retire and never have to work again - unless you wanted to.

>Certainly an enviable position to be in!

 

You'd think so wouldn't you? Mathmatically and logically it's possible. But it doesn't normally happen, I've pissed away all my money and it was never more than $9k/month, which nevertheless is a lot more than most people in this country make, but most months I see anywhere between 3 and 6k. Keep in mind that I'm a lazy bastard and am severly limited by having a boyfriend. If I had more initiative and less respect for my Monkey, or no Monkey, I could do better.

 

I've run through the math here before, but basically any escorts that claim to make more than $150k/year failed arithmetic. That said, let's say 90k/year minus's expenses and fake-taxes is a big chunk. But a lot us piss it away. Sucks, but it's true. There are exceptions, Ted Mathews makes Sean look like a popper :-) That hot top's got more condos than everyone on this board combined, I swear.

 

But as for me even before I was an escort I always subscribed to a self-made philosophy in which if when I die I have NO MONEY then I won. Money is for spending and enjoying, what are they going to do, bury it with you? We're gay we have no kids: take care of Rent, health insurance, rent insurance, car, car insurance, then travel the world, drink decent wine, eat at Lutece', stay in nice hotels, snowboard whenever you can, for tomorrow we die.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Response

 

Lutece? Not Daniel?

[Guest neverbeenhad]

The guys I know that have been in the trade (3) that were not just assholes/addicts incapable to setting an alarm--and they don't last too long anyway--were in it for very logical business reasons. If you're hot, intelligent and want to be on the fast track for cash, it makes total sense. No overhead, no taxes, no employees, no boss, no start-up loans, no layoffs, no nothing. Your bed is your office and your cock is your inventory--so easy!

I know a couple of guys who bought property, or were given property, socked away their money and are doing very nicely t'anks. OK, I also know one or two who got all fucked up, but they were fucked as bank tellers and waiters before that.

The smart entrepreneurs may be a minority of the escorts out there at any given time, but they're the ones everybody is interested in and satisfied with. Unless somebody is musing the career path of Anthony Holloway; in that case sorry, my bad.

[Rod Hagen]

RE: Response

 

>Lutece? Not Daniel?

 

Actually, if I have my choice of anywhere (and I've been everywhere) I choose Danube. There's nothing in NYC that compares to those beef cheeks. Fuckin' A

 

I prefer the David Bouley restautants to the Daniel Boulud's (though when I walked by in December Bouley Bakery was closed for renovations). And Jean George can go right to hell. I hope he chokes on one of his own undercooked dishes right beforehand. But I've already run through my much longer list of NYC restaurant likes and dislikes.

[Guest Thunderbuns]

>How much do you consider necessary to retire comfortably,

>not lavishly?? My estmiate US$1,000,000 ... twice that

>would be nice. We are talking either Hillary R. C. type

>investments here or long term building, way after 35-40. If

>I'm missing something please clue me in.

 

Well now TY - this is a subject that could go on and on - but, here are my thoughts on it. By the way, Rod H. more or less admitted in a a subsequent post that it was possible and used Ted Mathews as an example.

 

I'm taking, of course, about an escort that is totally professional, works diligently at self-promotion and is realistic in his goals and objectives. Note that I said in my original post that one would not be able to live high off the hog (or words to that effect)in order to achieve this and it is essential that one invests their discretionary income wisely. Get a good broker, you don't have to invest only in stocks favoured by widow's and orphan's funds. You can afford to take a little risk in your portfolio - if some investments don't pan out, others will and your escorting income will be sufficient to carry you over any rough spots.

 

You are in an entirely different position than a family man with the

same income. He has responsabilities re raising & educating 2 or 3 kids, needing to cope with the expense of two cars, paying for daughter's weddings etc., expense that most escorts will never incure.

 

Never pay rent - why put money in a landlord pocket? And as one of your investmets, consider picking up some rental properties. What could be better in your early retirement than collecting rent on your clear title properties?

 

I'm not saying you should live like you're on welfare. You're making good money, you're working hard and should treat yourself when you feel the need. Take 2 holidays a year, if that's what you want. But nix to the idea of jetting off on a whim to London for the weekend. Drive a decent car, if that's your thing, but don't feel you have to trade it in every year for the next sexy SUV that comes along.

 

And don't help to ake your neighborhood drug dealer richer than you are.

 

It's more than possible. All it takes is a little planning, a little restraint, and a lot of prioritising!

 

Thunderbuns

[Justice]

Rod thank you for a very enlightening and candid post. I assume that you had a 401k when you worked for an engineering firm. Now that you're self employed, I hope that you're putting something away for the future. After all, you going to want to continue to live in the lifestyle that you've become accustomed to long after you've decided to move on to the next next phase of your life. Thanks again.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

T Buns.

 

Thanks for the thoughful reply. You make some good points with which I do not differ. I concede your point with the caveat that it presupposes an outlook and set of circumstances that line up as 'the optimal case'.

 

For exqample, it seems to me implicit that your scenario hypothesizes 1) dedicated purusit of the long term interest as THE single goal, everything else being subjugated to that, 2) that the escort is in a VERY lucrative market (NY, LA, possibly Miami, London...) or willing to travel to those markets and elsewhere continually and he can market himself successfully enough to be continually in travel demand in those markets. Many escorts don't fall into these circumstances.

 

As for point #1, I'm not sure that being driven by that single goal is much better (on a day-to-day basis) than 'working for the man' given the single minded dedication and austerity in lifestyle seemingly required. It is a fact that there is light at the end of the tunnel and the tunnel is not as long for other career choices -- which was your original point. So while it doesn't detract from your argument it quite likely does detract from the plus column of the daily benefits of the job -- just an observation.

 

Thanks again, TY.

[Rick Munroe]

>concede

>caveat

>presupposes

>implicit

>hypothesizes

>subjugated

>austerity

 

Whatever happened to little old words like "cock" "cum" "thrust" "juicy" "shoot" "spread" and "swallow"?

[buckguy]

Interesting reply to Pickwick & follow-up. This is a question that interests me, too. Of all the ways to cope with an unhappy job or a need for money, I doubt that excorting occurs to most men. OTOH, it isn't grounds for pathos. If clients want to look down on escorting, then they have to recognize that they are part of the equation and their opinion of the escorts has to reflect something about themselves.

 

Travel can get boring in any job, so i was only a little surprised that this got old, but how do the clients stay interesting? It sounds like you've found a niche, plus I'd guess that you wind up with some of those operations managers you left engineering to avoid.

 

BTW---lots of jobs sound "fulfilling" unless you have them and hate them. More to the point of Rod's previous career, I've known quite a few engineers who've left that field for very different occupations ranging from clinical psychology to glass art.

[Guest neverbeenhad]

Spend, that's true. Why would I have said 'everybody'? I hate people that universalize, and there I go doing it.

I guess I meant to say that the guys I describe are the most attractive to a normally well-adjusted person. Not that I wouldn't wanna get nasty with a hot but fucked-up guy, I'm sure I would, and that itself has certain attractions. But in general, I think a guy who knows what he's in it for, and is comfortable with it and good at it, is going to have the long-term client attraction.

You don't need to want to be in a certain profession to say it has advantages or good points. i myself would not want to be, say, a cop, a fireman, a CEO of Enron, a clergyman. But each one has its plusses, and most people who are in those professions know why they're there. And the word 'prostitute' is now so loaded that it's hard to look past it, and so I think it's a bad idea to use it here-- yeah, 'sex worker' pussies out on the whole dynamic of its meaning, but still,'escort' kind of denotes some control, some ability to call the shots. I think these guys are in charge of their destiny, and no guy in shades and a leopard-skin coat is gonna fuck 'em up if they don't bring in enough cash on Saturday night.

My point is if you're reasonably intelligent and not an addict, escorting can work for you on a short-term basis. And who cares what your mother wants you to do, or what you'd tell your nephew to do? Nobody wants to live his life that way--I'd be a father of five by now!

[Donnie]

>like Shamus I am sure I will pine for it when it's gone.

 

Will you pine to get your hair highlighted too? That's what Shamus mostly pines for now.

[Traveller]

RE: Response

 

>>Lutece? Not Daniel?

>

>Actually, if I have my choice of anywhere (and I've been

>everywhere) I choose Danube. There's nothing in NYC that

>compares to those beef cheeks. Fuckin' A

>

>I prefer the David Bouley restautants to the Daniel Boulud's

>(though when I walked by in December Bouley Bakery was

>closed for renovations). And Jean George can go right to

>hell. I hope he chokes on one of his own undercooked dishes

>right beforehand. But I've already run through my much

>longer list of NYC restaurant likes and dislikes.

 

Yeah. A part of this thread a hedonist can enjoy. Danube is great, there for Thanksgiving. Also love Grammercy Tavern; and Gotham Bar (Gael and me). JoJo is big fun too. Le Bernardin sucks.

 

Later.

 

PS. Lutece is for people who abhor baseball caps. Wonder if Nice Guy's tried it.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Response

 

There is a book reviewed in Newsweek this week about a recovering addict. She rates Gramercy Tavern as one of the best bathrooms in New York to do lines, whatever that means. Apparently the floor to ceiling doors allow privacy.

Gotham Bar and Grill is always good. For food, that is. I can't remember anything about the bathroom.

Lutece was my worst "fine dining" experience in new York, but that was a few years ago.

Right now, I like Wendy's.