RED WHITE and ROYAL BLUE

[Becket]

Anyone else looking forward to seeing this new movie from Amazon Prime? I was really looking forward to it.  The two main characters are both great looking and I was hoping for at least a butt shot or two. Alas, very little nudity. The chemistry between the two guys is great though. But most of the movie was tiresome, IMHO. O well. 

[JourneysEnd]

Pity, although I'll probably end up watching it when it gets to the UK. The book was fun.

[Ali Gator]

I just watched this today - it was 'cute', but filled with cliches (starting with the supporting cast of characters and their dialogue). Lead actor Taylor Zakhar Perez is absolutely gorgeous. He appeared in one of the storylines in the first season of "MINX", posing as a centerfold (if I remember correctly, he played the fireman who posed nude for the centerfold and showed full frontal in the episodes - he had a nice penis from what I recall). 

[+ EVdude]

Agree across the thread… cute, cliches, tad tiresome and unsurprisingly predictable. But couldn’t stop watching and didn’t regret it 2 hours later. Just wish there was some below the belt skin!

[+ StLouisOct]

[TonyDown]

I wish Stephen Fry had a bigger part.  The film would have been more balanced if the Royal side was developed.  Fry and Nicholas Galatzine had one scene together.  

I like Galitzine.  I'd like to see him in more content.  He was great in Handsome Devil and Cinderella. 

IMO RW&RB was like a Hallmark movie with a bigger budget.  That's OK.   3 of 5 stars.

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by TonyDown

[uclablueyes]

The scene is just so hot: https://youtu.be/Cc8pbipSuX8

[uclablueyes]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:55 AM, EVdude said:

Agree across the thread… cute, cliches, tad tiresome and unsurprisingly predictable. But couldn’t stop watching and didn’t regret it 2 hours later. Just wish there was some below the belt skin!

There are great pics of Alex fully naked online. 😱

[leeper]

Finally saw this movie; interviews with the director indicated he was looking to make a rom-com, and I think he succeeded.   I enjoyed it for what it was, a romantic story with two very attractive leads.

Taylor Zakhar Perez was widely reported at the time to be wearing a prosthetic penis in his Minx Season 1 role.

[+ stevenkesslar]

My buddy Dane Scott had the perfect two reactions when we watched it together:  1)  Applause, 2) "Finally, somebody wrote a good Gay rom-com."  

I haven't seen The Inheritance.  But kudos to Matthew Lopez for being able to go from a six hour Tony-winning AIDS drama to a light and sexy fantasy in which Gay woke always wins. I'm all for being versatile.  😉

When I like a movie I tend to read lots of reviews.  This ending to the LA Times review summed up what I thought was so fun about the movie, from the perspective of a Gay man:

Quote

A Trojan horse — well, a Magnum one, if its thirstiest line is to be believed — at the doorstep of the White House, Buckingham Palace and studio C-suites, López’s film smuggles queer ideas and images into spaces traditionally populated by straight people and shaped by straight tastes. Which is, to be clear, no more the “right” way of updating the genre for the 21st century than any other.

It’s just nice, for a change, to come in through the front door.

And Galitzine:

On 8/12/2023 at 3:51 PM, TonyDown said:

I like Galitzine.  I'd like to see him in more content.  He was great in Handsome Devil and Cinderella. 

He's always fun to watch.  Can't wait for Mary and George. 

I think this probably proves that it is less important whether the actor is Straight or Gay, and more important that he is just sexy and hot.  Galitzine as a Straight actor who actually played rugby playing a Gay rugby player in Handsome Devil was very hot and sexy to watch.  Galitzine as a campy Gayish Prince Charming in Cinderella, much less so.  But whatever went wrong with that Prince Charming, Prince Henry has now redeemed it.

There's been a lot of speculation about Galitzine's sexuality.  I like the way this podcast interview with Gay critic Marc Malkin handled it.  Just matter of factly talked about what it's like to be a Straight actor trying to do a faithful job playing Gay roles.   It's nice if we are now at a point where we can have talented Gay writers doing rom coms, hot Straight men playing Gay Princes with "voracious and animalistic" sexual desires, and hot Gay men in real life swooning women in movies off their feet.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by stevenkesslar

[pubic_assistance]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:15 PM, Becket said:

The chemistry between the two guys is great

Is it?

I had the exact opposite reaction.

I found the whole thing cheesy in a typical "HALLMARK CHANNEL" way.

I also find it remarkable that anyone found their sex scene to be "hot". To me it was embarrassingly uncomfortable. Outside of Perez looking sexy the dynamic between these two actors was consistently clumsy and never convincing.

[+ stevenkesslar]

On 8/11/2023 at 3:15 PM, Becket said:

The chemistry between the two guys is great

 

12 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I also find it remarkable that anyone found their sex scene to be "hot". To me it was embarrassingly uncomfortable. Outside of Perez looking sexy the dynamic between these two actors was consistently clumsy and never convincing.

Great.  I'll fuck him then.   As long as I can get TZP out of the way, I'll have no competition. 

Besides, Taylor has a BF.  Nick just doesn't realize he needs one yet.  😉

This is what the Steven Kesslar School Of Sexual Finishing is for.  

Serious comment.  I think this helps answer the question of whether this is a community.  Or what kind of community this is.

My buddy Dane Scott already texted me the GIF of TZP in Minx with the incredible cock.  I texted back, "I think it was a prosthetic.  But one can always hope."  So having been the best little whore I could be, it doesn't surprise me in the least that this is a community that mostly wants TZP to be a stripper.  And we want the cock to be real, and available to grab.  That's who we are.  That's what we do.  What more could one possibly need?

Matthew Lopez said his intention was to film a Gay fairy tale about hope and love.  The thing I am proudest of as a Gay man is that I was one of a million little ants with no fucking power that was supposed to be crushed.  Just like we always were.  And instead, to quote someone famous who is NOT a prince:  "It’s thousands of years of culture and history is just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way."  I dunno!  But I know my friends and I helped do it.

So we are now seeing the fruits of cultural change.  In about a decade, we went from a princess ad that fucked up same sex marriage for a while to a charming prince who likes to bottom and wants a hubby.  I can't think of a Gay fairy tale about love and empowerment that could be sexier, or sweeter.   It wasn't as complex as it could have been.  But fairy tales never are.

To quote both Alex and Henry at the end of the movie, "We won."  That's who we are.  That's what we did.  That's what I love about the LGBTQ community.   😍  And if Straight guys like Nick want to be our ally, that's another win I'll take.

 

[uclablueyes]

11 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

 

Great.  I'll fuck him then.   As long as I can get TZP out of the way, I'll have no competition. 

Besides, Taylor has a BF.  Nick just doesn't realize he needs one yet.  😉

This is what the Steven Kesslar School Of Sexual Finishing is for.  

Serious comment.  I think this helps answer the question of whether this is a community.  Or what kind of community this is.

My buddy Dane Scott already texted me the GIF of TZP in Minx with the incredible cock.  I texted back, "I think it was a prosthetic.  But one can always hope."  So having been the best little whore I could be, it doesn't surprise me in the least that this is a community that mostly wants TZP to be a stripper.  And we want the cock to be real, and available to grab.  That's who we are.  That's what we do.  What more could one possibly need?

Matthew Lopez said his intention was to film a Gay fairy tale about hope and love.  The thing I am proudest of as a Gay man is that I was one of a million little ants with no fucking power that was supposed to be crushed.  Just like we always were.  And instead, to quote someone famous who is NOT a prince:  "It’s thousands of years of culture and history is just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way."  I dunno!  But I know my friends and I helped do it.

So we are now seeing the fruits of cultural change.  In about a decade, we went from a princess ad that fucked up same sex marriage for a while to a charming prince who likes to bottom and wants a hubby.  I can't think of a Gay fairy tale about love and empowerment that could be sexier, or sweeter.   It wasn't as complex as it could have been.  But fairy tales never are.

To quote both Alex and Henry at the end of the movie, "We won."  That's who we are.  That's what we did.  That's what I love about the LGBTQ community.   😍  And if Straight guys like Nick want to be our ally, that's another win I'll take.

 

🧡

[dutchal]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:29 PM, stevenkesslar said:

 

 

Besides, Taylor has a BF.  Nick just doesn't realize he needs one yet.  😉

 

 

 

Are you talking about the movie or IRL?  From everything I've ever read TZP has been very successful at avoiding questions about, and keeping his love life out of the media.  There's no info there about whether he's gay or straight or whatever much less anyone with whom he's romantically linked.

[+ stevenkesslar]

10 hours ago, dutchal said:

Are you talking about the movie or IRL?  From everything I've ever read TZP has been very successful at avoiding questions about, and keeping his love life out of the media.  There's no info there about whether he's gay or straight or whatever much less anyone with whom he's romantically linked.

I'll give you a complicated answer.  Because, as many have commented, real life is more complicated than a two hour fairy tale.  I'm talking about IRL, based on my perceptions on social media.  Which also means, "Who the fuck knows?"

Nick did something I thought was classy.  I'm guessing his agent called a Gay reporter at Variety who is married to a guy, and they had an interview about what it's like to be a Straight actor empathetically portraying Gay men, often coming out.  I posted it above.  If I go by many comments on social media, there are Gay men who don't want to believe this truth.  Which is fine.  Who cares if lots of Gay men would rather think Nick is Gay, as long as they buy tickets to his movies?  As much as some people think the movie was Hallmark trashy, there was that whole thing about privacy and being able to come out on our own terms. Which totally resonated for me.  So I like the way Nick essentially came out as Straight to his fans.

With Taylor I'm basing it on what is being said on Gay social media.  Here's 105 pages of it.  And people say I'm verbose!  I think the right way to say it, if I assume the movie is actually correct, is that if Taylor were Gay, and if he loved someone IRL, why would that be an issue?  Why wouldn't a Gay talented actor have the same opportunities to swoon teen girls as Nick has to swoon Gay guys?  I read some comment on some user review, maybe on Rotten Tomatoes, where some teen girl literally wrote something like, "I refuse to believe he is Gay."  And therein lies the problem.  I'm the least Hollywood person in the world.  I'm an organizer and social justice guy.  It would be ironic if all the swooning teen girls who want to be inclusive aren't 100 % inclusive when they write shit like that.  Which is why I am delighted that, once again, the LGBTQ community is setting an inclusive and supportive standard.  And saying, in effect, we love Nick just the way he is. Some people are just born Straight.  What are you gonna do?   😄

Now I'll blab about a few other related things.  Whether this movie deserves to be a rom com classic or not, it's already clear that it's going to be at least a little bit of a cultural inflection point.  In a way that thrills me.  So these comments deal not with any criticism of the film, but with LGBTQ cinema.

The thing we know for sure is that Lopez is Gay, and quite open about it.  Thank God!  

I have no reason to criticize a film I loved.  But, for the sake of argument, it could have been better by being either a brain-disengaged rom com (as The Guardian argued), or a serious Tony-level Gay love story with cultural conflict and coming out drama built in.  That said, I think it's a good bet that the success of this film guarantees we'll have more of all of the above.  This is now the #1 or #2 or #3 movie on Amazon Prime in (name most any country in the world, except homophobic ones like Russia or Iran.)  Even if I didn't love the movie, I'd love that.

I can't find anything detailed about who is actually watching the movie.  But I'm guessing that the target audience, like for most rom coms, tends to be younger.  As many might guess, I'm not really a fan of texting.  Lopez made texting look fun.  I'm guessing that was intentional.  Even if it didn't work as well for Gay men of a certain age.  I'm guessing Lopez made lots of directorial choices with that audience (teen love) in mind.  It's no surprise that organizations like GLAAD are pushing it as a "groundbreaking LGBTQ film."  It also happens to be selling lots of Prime memberships.  I think Lopez deserves a Tony for being Best Pragmatist.  

Another part of the reason it worked so well for me is that, right or wrong, the book and film are propaganda and inspiration for same sex marriage.  I think intentionally.  I had a wonderful long walk last year with a friend who worked for Freedom To Marry where we did a deep dive into what precisely about THE MESSAGE worked.  And how she then helped export it to Ireland in a campaign to win same sex marriage there.  Based on my understanding of what worked, whether in slick ads or local door knocking teams I helped train as a volunteer, the scene I would single out is Henry telling the King and his brother that we are "deeply in love" and "deeply committed."  On the level of bumper sticker, that's what won it.  

I thought that scene with the King was brilliant, on multiple levels.  First, since the gossip is that no Grade A actor wanted to play a homophobic Queen - especially right after a beloved Queen died IRL - they cast one of the UK's best Drama Queens as a homophobic King instead.  I read Stephen Fry asked to play any small part in the film he could.  So now I know I like Gay Queens playing homophobic kings.  And while I was watching it, I was thinking, So the guy who I think is probably Straight IRL is making the case for same sex marriage, and deeply committed queer love.  And the guy who I think is probably Gay IRL is keeping his mouth shut.  Other than when Fry, the Drama Queen, bitch slaps him.  This is ironic.  And maybe brilliant.

Speaking about the way the world should be, the movie is of course an easy target for the criticism that nothing, nothing, nothing in it could possibly be real.  It's just a fairy tale.  But if you believe that, here's a few questions.  Is same sex marriage legal in Ireland?  And what kind of delicate leadership decisions did THAT involve?   Granted, Ireland does not have a Gay prince.  But they do have a Gay PM.

Quote

In a 2010 interview, Varadkar stated that while he did not consider homosexuality morally wrong, he opposed same-sex marriage, although supported civil partnerships.[98] However, following his public acknowledgement in January 2015 that he was a gay man, Varadkar began advocating for same-sex marriage during the national debate in the prelude to the 2015 referendum on same-sex marriage

History, huh?  😍   I'm pretty sure from what my friends tell me that his process wasn't particularly easy, though.

I think we are neither at the beginning nor the end of this whole coming out thing.  Maybe TZP is Gay, maybe not.  I think the movie is correct.  We should let him figure out what he wants to tell us.  And more broadly support any LGBTQ actors who do want to come out.  Just like we should support Straight actors and "allies"  (Nick's choice of words to describe himself) who want to come out in Variety.

Edited August 25, 2023 by stevenkesslar

[+ stevenkesslar]

Take this as a less verbose addendum.  I just read the new posts today on that other site I hyperlinked above.  Somebody posted this interview today.  It's hilarious.  And kinda sorta makes the same points with a funny story.  If it's hard to come out about having hair on your ass, I'm guessing coming out as Gay or Straight might be a lot harder.  Nick mentioned in his Variety interview that it's a very sensitive topic.  Ya think? 

But this part of what Lopez believes shines through in the film.  And is I'm sure why so many people - especially I'm guessing young people - are falling in love with it.  Let's just let people be beautiful for the way we are, naturally.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by stevenkesslar

[+ sync]

I've seen only the the trailers, and I really like what I've seen.

It appears to me that the panning of the movie comes from those wanting a raunchy skin-flick rather than a charming love story.

I'm holding out until the movie is available without being sucked into an Amazon Prime subscription.  It's probably going to be awhile.

[+ stevenkesslar]

6 minutes ago, sync said:

It appears to me that the panning of the movie comes from those wanting a raunchy skin-flick rather than a charming love story.

If anyone does have the porno version of the film, how does one get it?  Just asking for a friend.  😁

[pubic_assistance]

15 hours ago, sync said:

It appears to me that the panning of the movie comes from those wanting a raunchy skin-flick rather than a charming love story.

Is it ?

The reviews seem to be more focused on the lack of production value and cheesy writing. Yes. There were some comments about the lack of j/o material but honestly I didn't find the pairing between these two actors believable so even the boring make out sessions never made it past the high school musical production value for me.

[+ sync]

5 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Is it ?

The reviews seem to be more focused on the lack of production value and cheesy writing. Yes. There were some comments about the lack of j/o material but honestly I didn't find the pairing between these two actors believable so even the boring make out sessions never made it past the high school musical production value for me.

"There is no accounting for taste."

[+ stevenkesslar]

7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Is it ?

The reviews seem to be more focused on the lack of production value and cheesy writing. Yes. There were some comments about the lack of j/o material but honestly I didn't find the pairing between these two actors believable so even the boring make out sessions never made it past the high school musical production value for me.

I loved the film, obviously.  But I'll compare it to a few other LGBTQ films I loved.  And there's a few spoiler alerts in here.  So if you don't want to know anything about the films I mention, don't read this post.  Or just don't read it because it's verbose.  😉

I'm going to post in another thread about how RWRB is part of our Summer Of Queer Love.  So in a different post I'll suggest maybe we all deserve a Golden Era of LGBTQ rom coms that hasn't even begun yet.  I'm really looking forward to Bottoms.  If the reviews are right, it's an anti-RWRB.  The book and film of RWRB had to be ultra-politically correct in order to work.  Bottoms sounds like the exact opposite: irreverent satire about everything.  Including political correctness.  Why not have every kind of LGBTQ comedy in the world?

But in this post I'll go down the other road:  serious drama.  I loved Call Me By Your Name.  I loved God's Own Country even more.  If I had to pick one LGBTQ film that just blew me away for it's subtlety and script and fine acting in the last decade or so, it would be God's Own Country.

Would RWRB have been better if it ended with TZP staring into the camera and crying over his lost love? Or if there'd been even less foreplay, and more emphasis on Galitzine's prince being more or less emotionally autistic?  Those movies did wonders for the careers of Timothee Chalamet and Josh O'Connor.  Who are both outstanding actors.  They won, or were nominated for, lots of awards.  Good for them.  I love it that we've established that outstanding Straight actors can advance their careers with empathetic portrayals of Gay men. 

But, for me at least, Red White And Royal Blue was the most emotionally satisfying of these three films.  I mean that in the sense that, in some basic way, a fairy tale is more emotionally satisfying than Shakespeare.   Especially when it is a fairy tale you want to believe in.  And that may be part of the difference.  I'd argue all three of these films had happy endings.  In the sense that the Gay men they portrayed came out and had a deeper sense of self-worth, power, and love.  But is there something wrong about just being sexy, and winning?

Another very apt comparison right now is with the movie Blue Jean.  Have any of you seen it?  Probably not.  I haven't.  It made a whopping $110,772 in the US box office.  I read reviews by a Gay film critic who trashed RWRB and lavished praised on Blue Jean for "challenging homophobia and exclusion."  Oh.  Like RWRB didn't?

 The only thing I could think is this is why I've never met a film critic who actually has experience volunteering on an LGBTQ campaign.  Let alone winning one. Blue Jean got a "must see" 87 on Metacritic.  RWRB got a so-so 62.  They make good comparisons, because both are set in England.  One sounds like it movingly portrays the reality that in 1980's England, for a lesbian in love, it was a victory to simply survive.  The other accurately portrays a world in which a closeted Gay leader is fighting for, to quote, "an infinitesimal shred of self preservation."   And then with the help of his lover he decides, in effect, Fuck it.  Let's just flip the whole order upside down.  

Is that somehow supposed to make Blue Jean emotionally deeper or better?  I don't think so.  This is a slightly cruel thing to say.  But it feels more like some Gay film critic who has been around a long time and likes to pontificate about how oppressed we are.  And who doesn't know how to deal with us creating our own fairy tales in which we define our lives, fall in love, and live happily ever after.  It's 1000 % clear on social media why young queers in particular love this movie.  They want to be able to define their lives, fall in love, and live happily ever after.  And anybody who was around for the massive fight against homophobia should feel very good inside about the better world we created.  What's cheesy about that?  

Brett Marchant, the Gay critic I mentioned above, sets out three criteria that he thinks RWRB fails to deliver on.  It does not have a "recognizable Gay relationship," it does not have an "undeniable sense of romance."  And it is not funny.  So judge for yourself.  I love both the videos below, which summarize the plots of two movies I love. So don't watch them if you haven't seen the films, and don't want any spoilers.  I also love the songs.  It's cool that young queers with basic film editing skills can now take what some Gay director did and create their own magical little worlds.  I wish I had that when I was a Gay kid. 

Again, I absolutely fell in love with both of these films.  But do Alex and Henry not have a recognizable Gay relationship?  Are they not undeniably romantic?  And are they not adorable, charming, and funny?  And with all due respect to Josh O'Connor, is he the Gay romantic we all want to get dicked down by?  (Rachel's Hilson's line in RWRB, who was another one of the great supporting cast.)  Give me a fucking break!

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by stevenkesslar

[+ stevenkesslar]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:07 AM, pubic_assistance said:

The reviews seem to be more focused on the lack of production value and cheesy writing.

The rant continues.

Red, White & Royal Blue director explains the biggest changes between the movie and the book

I'm fine with the idea that some people may feel this is how you take a piece of shit (shallow hollow internet trash) off Wattpad and turn it into a fart (film about real trash).  Cheese is actually a good catalyst to make that happen.  😉

But it's interesting hearing why Lopez made the choices he made.  (The article is full of spoilers.)  Whether you agree with them or not, they were clearly intentional.  I like most of the choices he made. 

Some comments on his choices, which I don't think involve any big spoilers.

I particularly like his decision to keep Alex's family together so he could have a father and a mother who were in sync about supporting their son and his boyfriend.  Period.  I'm guessing most of us did not get the film version growing up.  Arguably, this is LGBTQ or Hispanic cultural propaganda.  Not art.  I don't care.  I love it, anyway.

If I wanted to go after Lopez, I'd do it over Alex's sexuality.  I'm guessing most of us can relate immediately to Henry's torment about being a closeted Gay man - whether we are famous or not.  I can't relate to someone in his 20's nonchalantly discovering he's Bisexual.  And efficiently deciding that's just swell.  I know just enough about Broadway and Hollywood to argue that in a live theater you can't see people's faces well.  But in films you can.  So Lopez saying "I needed something that was act-able" may reveal his rookie Hollywood status.  God's Own Country is an exquisite example of how much good actors can communicate without saying a word on film.  But Francis Lee was not trying to make a rom com that would sell more LGBTQ films through Amazon.

That said, there's a vibe out there (like from the moron at the Daily Beast) about how Galitzine is a real actor, and TZP was in over his head.  I disagree.  In the key scene where they had it out, I felt TZP's face in close up said, "I'm a queer man who is hurt and I'm trying to save my relationship with the man I love."  Galitzine, arguably, was trying a little too hard to channel Laurence Olivier.  That said, watch Handsome Devil or The Beat Beneath My Feet (his first film, in which he is naturally charming) and compare his facial expressions.  In addition to having a very pretty face, he has grown a lot as an actor.  I'd bet he's going for an Oscar.  And he's probably going to get it, someday.

Now for a somewhat unrelated rant about another great film.  Last night I read that whole 15 page thread on favorite LGBTQ films.  It's an awesome thread, which I won't pollute with a rant.  Almost all my favorites were mentioned at least once.  At some point I will add a list of LGBTQ films I loved that weren't mentioned and aren't the best.  But that I still really enjoyed and found moving.  God's Own Country was mentioned a lot.  But I think the one that was mentioned more than any other was Latter Days.  Which makes sense.  Because it was equally heartfelt.  And the most heartfelt and beautiful thing about it was Steve (or Max) Sandvoss, who was also mentioned repeatedly in the thread.

So here's a compare and contrast which I think is revealing.  Latter Days got a 48 % critic score on Rotten Tomatoes, but a 78 % audience score.  I was surprised the critics score was that low.  That said, it could easily be attacked for poor production values (really?  this is supposed to be an airport?), some cheesy lines and contrivances, and I think some wooden acting (but not by Sandvoss, who was the heart of the movie).  Wikipedia says it cost almost $1 million to make, and it made about that much at the box office.   But it is the top-grossing film from its distributor TLA Releasing.   Every Gay man I have met who has seen the film loves it.  As do I.

RWRB got a 75 % critic's score, and a 93 % audience score.  God's Own Country got an almost perfect critics score, 98 %. But a somewhat lower (though still excellent) audience score of 87 %.  Makes perfect sense to me.  If you ask me to name one of these movies that's a masterpiece, that's a no brainer.  God's Own Country.  That said, I have a friend who loves musicals and rom coms, and will gladly watch his favorites half a dozen times.  I once asked him if he'd seen God's Own Country.  He told me he managed to get through it, and quickly forgot what it was about. 

There's a reason good Hallmark movies and musicals can do so well.   Speaking of which, for those of us who loved Latter Days, its writer C. Jay Cox has an entry in Hallmark Hall of Fame.  Hope I didn't spoil the movie for you.  😉

By the way, Bottoms as of right now has a 95 % critic score and a 100 % audience store.  I like it when it just keeps getting better.

Latter Days, and Sandvoss, have aged well.  I think these other LGBTQ films will, too.  While I was going down internet rabbit holes, I found this "Latter Days 20 years later" video on YouTube.  It's in Portugese, but with English subtitles.  In a way that's good.  Because it demonstrates how queer-affirming movies like this have had a personal impact all over the world.  It breaks my heart, actually.  I would love to give Lopez the award for Cheesiest Gay Love Story Ever.  But I feel like we have to give it to Sandvoss.  After all, he really does make cheese for a living now.  😉

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by stevenkesslar

[+ stevenkesslar]

‘Red, White & Royal Blue’: Wattpad is Taking Over Hollywood

I realize the last three posts are mine.  In part I'm assuming that, with an audience score of 93 %, most people are like the Gay friend I watched the movie with:  we enjoyed it, so why bother picking it apart?  I realize no one here is attacking the idea of a wildly successful LGBTQ film.  But I'm posting thoughtful articles that are relevant to why some people are picking it apart.

One way to start and end any discussion about RWRB is what the author says in the last paragraph:

Quote

It feels almost petty to critique a film so obviously for adolescents.

Although I'd add, based on what the book's author and film's director say, that it's also obviously for queers.  And most queers love it.

Since I'm having a fun debate with myself (I like to think of it as intellectual masturbation, which is almost as good as the real thing), I'll offer two rebuttals about Wattpad.

The author says that if this is how we get our films moving forward, it will lead to films chock full of Marvel language.  Fair enough.  I'm a whore, not a prince.  But I could relate to Henry saying "no more shame or secrets."  The really nice thing about Wattpad is that it is NOT Marvel. If we were talking about which Marvel character we'd like to be dicked down by, that's a different thing.  But other than some homoerotic fantasy about Thor, I have no interest in the Marvel Universe whatsoever.  Yet most years those films (or Disney, or some sequel) fill out the Top 10 highest grossing list.  This year, shockingly, Oppenheimer somehow broke through and is now #4.   The nice thing about Wattpad is that, even if what we get is The Kissing Booth and RWRB, it is about actual human beings with actual human problems.  Even if you feel Prince Henry expresses himself using Marvel language.  

(Arguably, Barbie - which is #2 for the year - is also about real human beings experiencing real human challenges.  I consulted with @Kenny, who informed me that the movie does address very important themes.  About Ken.)  😉

My second argument defending Wattpad is that if you believe in a free market of ideas, it's actually a good way for good ideas to rise to the top.  Even if they are cheesy ones.  I learned a lot of things about Latter Days I didn't know reading the Wikipedia post.  That movie clearly depended on one Gay guy who made enough money writing a Straight script to cobble together funding for a low budget LGBTQ story to be filmed.  RWRB delivers kind of the same thing.  But in a way that opens up a much bigger and somewhat easier pipeline. 

I deeply appreciate the fact that several decades ago some errant queer Mormon was dedicated enough to single-handedly fight to make a Gay Mormon film that many Mormons would still condemn.  But there is something very cool about the fact that RWRB ended up getting filmed precisely because so many young queers and Straights simply liked the ideas in it.  Even if what we get is The Kissing Booth for girls and RWRB for young queers, that's cool.  If their success opens up funding for Francis Lee to make more films, or for Matthew Lopez to write a script free of cheese or camp that will win an Oscar, even better. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by stevenkesslar

[dutchal]

‘Did Kit Connor’s Experience Also Teach People Nothing’: Scrutiny Over 'Red, White and Royal Blue's Taylor Zakhar Perez’s Sexuality Is History Repeating Itself

WEGOTTHISCOVERED.COM

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The 'Red, White & Royal Blue' star remains vigilant with his privacy, but how long can he hold out?

 

[+ stevenkesslar]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:57 AM, dutchal said:

‘Did Kit Connor’s Experience Also Teach People Nothing’: Scrutiny Over 'Red, White and Royal Blue's Taylor Zakhar Perez’s Sexuality Is History Repeating Itself

WEGOTTHISCOVERED.COM

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The 'Red, White & Royal Blue' star remains vigilant with his privacy, but how long can he hold out?

 

So I waited five days to comment on this.  Partly to see if anyone else would.  Meanwhile, the TZP narrative is advancing on TikTok and God knows how many other websites across the planet.

The main purpose of all my rants is to heap praise on the book, the movie, and the actors.  Both in terms of how they portray Gay and Bi men in the movies.  And what they are doing in real life.

I get why some people see this as a Hallmark movie with a Marvel-level script.  But I think the book and film are wildly successful because McQuiston and Lopez did an amazing job of taking decades of hard fought and hard won LGBTQ wisdom, summarizing it, and dramatizing it.  They are not only ahead of the curve.  I think they moved the curve forward.  Certainly in terms of LGBTQ representation in movies.  But also, as it is turning out by the day, in real life.  Heartstoppers, which I love, kind of did the same, in terms of representing Gay and Bi boy love.  The difference is that Heartstoppers didn't really have a cultural agenda.  Other than to say it is perfectly okay and sweet to be young, in love, and Gay or Bi.  RWRB is helping move an entire way of thinking about being queer forward.

That WGTC article is funny.  The part I agree with is that it was cruel to bully Kit O'Connor on Twitter.  To the point that he felt like he had to make a statement he did not want to make.  And this concept of "queerbaiting," which led to the cruelty, needs to be flushed down the toilet immediately.  The part of what WGTC is saying that I disagree with is their totally unrealistic fan-bashing.  I'll put the verbatim quote below.  But they are saying all of Harry style's fanbase are like vampires, lurking in the darkness. It's just stupid. 

What's even more stupid is WGTC is spreading the speculation, even as it disavows it.  The WGTC article posted above decries speculation.  It links to what I guess is supposed to be an example of this horrible speculation.  Which is a different article in WGTC, written five days earlier, literally titled, "What Is Taylor Zakhar Perez's sexuality?"  If WGTC thinks speculation is bad, why are they running headlines speculating about his sexuality?  It's silly.

I don't think it's realistic to believe fans, or non-fans, won't be curious and won't speculate.  I've been wondering whether Galitzine is Gay since I watched Handsome Devil.  I don't think that is evil.  I know that as an escort, I had almost 100 reviews where people speculated about my cock, my balls, my kissing, my fucking, and many other things.  Personally, I rather enjoyed it. 

But let's talk about real celebrities.  Here are five things we all know about Brad Pitt.  1)  He is Straight.  2)  He dated lots of gorgeous women.  3)  He married and divorced two of them.  4)  He was an alcoholic.  5)  He abused his wife.  At least he didn't have people speculating about his cock.  Oh, wait!  Google "Brad Pitt small penis" and see how many articles you find.  None of that has anything to do with his acting.  Or whether he deserved to win an Oscar.  Maybe it is all evil.  But I don't think queer actors will, or even should, be treated differently.  So let's be realistic, okay?  Hollywood is Hollywood.

For a better model, let's ask Taylor.  Or the character he played.  To summarize Alex's nice speech:  1)  We don't like the forced conformity of having to be closeted.  2)  Neither do we want to be outed.  3)  We may not want to come out at all.  4)  The principles we care most about are self-determination and privacy.  If you stop there, and especially in the context of the movie, you could decide that means, "I'm queer.  And it's none of your fucking business."  But that's actually not what Taylor said.  Arguably the most important line, both in the context of the movie and in Taylor's real life, was this:  "I hope one day we'll have the opportunity to be public about our relationship on our own terms."

Sounds great.  But what does that really mean?  How about we ask Luke Macfarlane?

‘Bros’ star Luke Macfarlane on coming out: Honesty is more important than Hollywood

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“Bros” actor Luke Macfarlane was more scared of lying about his sexuality than coming out.

“I think so many of the people I saw were tortured and ruined by the lies that they had to tell,” Macfarlane — who came out in 2008 — tells us. “Hollywood is very important, work is very important but I think being honest is much more important.”

I think that speaks for itself, and makes Macfarlane even more lovable.  But let me draw out a piece of subtext.  You could take this to the other extreme, and read it as Luke saying he owed it to his fans to tell them he is Gay.  I don't read it that way.  The way I read it is that he is a pragmatist.  He knows people are going to be speculate.  So what he wanted to communicate is that I appreciate you being my fans, I respect you, and I want to be honest with you.  Beyond that, leave me and my family in peace.  The last part of course didn't need to be said.

Let me also draw out one other important assumption kind of made there.  Are many Gays, Bi's, and Lesbians "tortured and ruined by the lies they had to tell."  That's kind of the entire history of Hollywood, one could argue.  But do we have to worry about Taylor being tortured or ruined?  I really doubt it.  I think he'll be fine.  This is not a one-size-fits-all process.

I think this quote from Macfarlane is a great one, too:

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“People watch Hallmark and Hallmark is successful because there is a lack of romance in our culture, there’s a lack of love, we’ve become a little bit cynical,” he shared. “People watch Hallmark on repeat because they want to watch people fall in love and I think we’ve kind of forgotten that.”

I think that is true.  It obviously helps explains RWRB's success.  To again draw out subtext, I think Macfarlane meant both the characters he plays, and him in real life.  It would also explain why he came out.  People like seeing the actors they love fall in love.  Maybe that's not fair.  But whether it is fair or not, it is going to happen, anyway.  Ask Brad Pitt.  Macfarlane simply got ahead of it, and made himself even more adorable.  And the problem with that is?  

The funny thing about those WGTC articles is one says this:  "it seems impossible for people online to enjoy LGBTQ+ content without pondering the sexualities of people involved in said projects."  The other said this about Harry Styles:  "he is constantly followed by a hailstorm of speculation."  I think both statements are true.  WGTC confirms them by publishing two stories speculating on TZP's sexuality.  So why are they bashing fans for acting like fans?  Or like human beings?

Here's what WGTC says about Harry Styles fans:

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His fandom lurks in the shadows, waiting with bated breath for confirmation to slip through the cracks, ready to pounce at a moment’s notice. 

Here's what Olivia Wilde, who Styles is dating, says about his fans:

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“I don’t personally believe the hateful energy defines his fan base at all. The majority of them are true champions of kindness,” she continued.

Please.  Give her and Harry the Luke McFarlane award for spreading pragmatism and good energy.  But what I really love is what Harry had to say about Twitter: "it's a s---storm of people trying to be awful to people."  

Thank you!

Which leads us to Kit O'Connor.  Mostly that just seems like some asshole being an asshole.  Even if you buy the logic of queerbaiting, what is the problem with a male who is portraying a character who is Bisexual holding hands in public with a woman?  What does Bisexual mean?  It makes no fucking sense.  Other than that assholes are assholes.

"Queerbaiting" makes no sense to me.  One reason is that some asshole will then decide Luke Macfarlane was straight-baiting in Hallmark movies where he played Straight men, and attack him for that. Stupid.  I ranted about this in a post already, but I will repeat it here.  Lopez kind of baked a smart response into the cake (pun intended) by casting a charming Straight actor as a Gay prince.  Who then sat down with a Gay Variety reporter and came out as Straight.  No one is attacking Nick.  The whole world is loving him.  No more queerbaiting, hopefully.  Thanks, guys.  We needed that.

I love what someone posted on Tik Tok today, responding to the raging debate about whether TZP is Gay:  "Why are you hurt?? We finally have a queer actor play queer character, this is huge 🎉❤️❤️❤️

If it turns out Taylor is Gay, I could not agree more.  Honestly, Lopez is turning out to be such a master of message that I wouldn't be surprised if he intended life to imitate art on this.  Everything being said about Taylor maybe being a loving, kind and committed Gay man only makes him seem even more adorable.

I  have to assume there were some conservative Christian women who watched Hallmark movies who had a real moral problem with Macfarlane being Gay.  Which is why he did the LGBTQ movement an awesome kindness.  Maybe he got some of them to open their heart.  The interesting thing about RWRB is it is hard to imagine anyone who likes it having a problem with Taylor being Gay (if he is, of course).  Luke Macfarlane said in that article above that coming out helped his career.  I think that's probably bullshit.  But a very smart thing to say.  That was 2008.  In 2023, in the context of what RWRB is all about, what's happening around the movie may actually help advance Taylor's career.  Too early to tell.  But I sure hope so.

I'll close with a few more paragraphs talking about Taylor and Momma Uma, as scripted by McQuiston and Lopez.  I don't think comparing TZP to Kit O'Connor is very helpful.  TZP is 31.  I think he has two very good choices.  I think what we are going to learn is that Taylor is living a real life fairy tale.  Right down to the kind of fairy tale setting where me and millions of others like me are hoping Alex and Prince Henry get married in the sequel.  Taylor and whoever he loves can say or do whatever they want.  But if they don't make a sequel, I will super pissed!   😉

Momma Uma laid out one good choice for Taylor in the movie:  You better think about this, and be sure.  Because this will define you for the rest of your life.  I think it's a safe bet that Luke Macfarlane thought that through in 2008.  And that seems to be where TZP is at, as lots of his fans have noticed.  He's not hiding anything, he's not denying anything, and he's not calling any press conferences.  It's the Harry Styles approach, as Harry articulated in the article above:

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“There’s always going to be a version of a narrative, and I think I just decided I wasn’t going to spend the time trying to correct it or redirect it in some way,” he explained.

Taylor's other choice is to take the path of Alex, as portrayed by Taylor.  I'll repeat the line, since it's a good one:  ""I hope one day we'll have the opportunity to be public about our relationship on our own terms."  If Taylor were Gay, why might he do that?  Ask Luke McFarlane.  He might feel it is more honest, and easier.  Like Macfarlane, he would immediately be a role model.  Like Macfarlane, he would be doing the LGBTQ community, and other queer actors, a kindness.  Not in an "I'm a queer activist" kind of way.  In a "I'm just a normal guy who fell in love with a guy" kind of way. 

Then again, maybe TZP values privacy above all else.  It's his, or their, choice.  Wait.  Didn't we already go through all this stuff in the movie?  I just fucking hate it when these trashy Hallmark movies are so much like real life!  😉

I think I am like most fans of RWRB, in terms of how I feel about the writer and director and actors who brought it to life.  I admire them, and wish them the best.  What I think Macfarlane captured, that WGTC doesn't get, is that this is a two way street.  Lopez and Galitzine and TZP can be honest because we are going to admire them for who they are.  Speaking for myself, I have very deep respect for McQuiston and Lopez.  I'll respect TZP regardless of what he does, and just hope for a sequel.  But if he does pull a Macfarlane, on his own terms, I will respect him even more.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by stevenkesslar