so was I out of line?

[Guest PWIT]

Below is an email dialog from a recent conversation with an escort. Please read and critique my responses and let me know where I could have communicated better. As far as the rate in the area, it tends to be 200-250. Thanks for your feedback.

 

Oh, I did let the escort know I would be posting this email thread, so not trying to do anything w/o his knowledge. He does have an account on this site and I welcome his critique here (or private if he prefers).

 

Maybe it is because I see money discussions in a matter-of-fact manor w/o the sensitivity that some seem to place on the transaction portion of the deal. I made this mistake w/ one other escort after a session was over once. I said something like 'now for the business part'. I ended having to explain that situation away (oh and it was one of the top best escort experiences yet up to that point). And one last tidbit of info before reading the email....as several of you can attest ;-) , I have never bargained. I always pay the posted or quoted rate.

 

 

 

starts with initial response after responding to M4RN ad:

--------

Hey bud,

Thanks for responding to my ad. What caught your eye about it. Let me know when you would like to get together, where (in/out), where you are (I am in <city removed>), and what you want to get into and we can go from there.

 

Thanks,

<escort name removed>

--------

Hey <escort name removed>,

what caught my eye? Could be that cute bubble butt, of course front of jock is looking good too, ad would lead me to believe you are discrete, or maybe that you are also bi. As for myself, I'm a fairly vanilla kind of guy and like to make out and take advantage of a partner's forte.

I was hoping to meet the other night, but may be able arrange something one evening this week if before Friday. Otherwise would have to be after Thanksgiving (leaving Friday and will be out of town through weekend after Thanksgiving).

 

Some general questions:

Are there better times of the week that work for you?

Are you a non-smoker?

I live in <location removed>, but would be looking to come to you for an in-call. Are you located someplace easy to get too with parking available?

What do you look like - facial features, etc?

Have you been reviewed on any sites?

And of course, the rate question.

 

<my name removed>

--------

<my name removed>,

Thanks for your note my friend. Yes, i am bi. I am also out of town beginning Saturday morning until the following Friday. The only night I can hang out this week is Wednesday. Tomorrow night after 7PM would be great.

 

I Do Not smoke...I live in <location removed> and have guest parking, I have a handsome face, square jaw. There is a review out there of me from a recent client...and there are some reviews on the site where you found me... My rate is $300 for first hour, $250 for additional hours.

 

<escort name removed>

--------

<escort name removed>,

thanks for the reply. Sounds like timing may not be working for us this week. Maybe after Thanksgiving we can work something out.

 

your rate does seem to be a little high for the area (I'm not trying to bargain - that's just not my style). I was trying to find a little more info of others experience on some of the review sites. I noticed you have responded to some of the threads on what is now daddysreviews. But you never answered one of the outstanding questions about you (reference link below).

 

<link removed>

<my name removed>

--------

Well, I think the rate comment means this is a none starter anyway. "For the area?" I'm first rate whether I'm in DC NYC or Guam. Just not my type of client to say something like that....I'm just as picky with clients as they are with me...

 

The answer to the "outstanding" question is that it depends on the guy.

 

Good luck.

[D.A.C.]

What an upside down world ,He's the one peddling his ass,And YOU are worried what he might think of you.

 

Jesus Christ fella get a grip.

[Guest PWIT]

>What an upside down world ,He's the one peddling his ass,And

>YOU are worried what he might think of you.

 

actually, I am not worried. Just trying to improve my communication skills.

[+ purplekow]

>>Maybe it is because I see money discussions in a

>matter-of-fact manor w/o the sensitivity that some seem to

>place on the transaction portion of the deal.

>> your rate does seem to be a little high for the area (I'm

>not trying to bargain - that's just not my style).

 

 

You were not matter of fact about the money discussion at all. Either the rate is unacceptably high for you and you ask for a lower price or, you accept the fee as stated and do not mention it any further.

 

Rather than denying bargaining, when you clearly are doing just that, perhaps you should have approached this politely but directly and the matter might have ended differently. Something along the line of:

"$300 is a bit more than I am used to paying and while I would like to spend some time with you, I don't think I can afford any more than the more usual local rate of $250. Maybe a weekday rather than a weekend appointment might make that more attractive for you. Or perhaps there is another compromise you might consider so that we can get together. Let me know."

 

In the end, he decides upon his rates and you decide upon what you will pay.

[Guest zipperzone]

I agree with purplekow.

 

You may not have thought that you were barganing but I'm sure he did. You claim that you always pay the requested rate and that you also told him that (more or less as an afterthought). So if you were willing to pay his rate, why bring it up at all?

[Guest PWIT]

Thanks purple @ zip. But I wasn't looking for a reduced rate. I guess I wanted to ensure it would be an experience that warrented the rate. Usually, to get that rate in this area I would look for a few outstanding reviews posted here or a reference from one of the trusted posters on this forum.

[alanalt]

Something like 95% of communication is conveyed through body language, tone of voice and other things that just don't translate through e-mail. Add to that, you're dealing with a total stranger on intimate subjects (money, sex) So I don't know about 'improving' your communications skills, because there's always going to be a chance that your e-mail 'foreplay' is just going to muck things up anyway...

 

Now, I happen to think that the escort's brush-off was a bit curt but then he obviously thinks highly of himself and if he's succeeding with $300/1st hr, then maybe he has a right to think so...

 

I agree with the other posters that you handled the money issue poorly. If you don't get into bartering, why bring it up? From an escort's perspective, you either are trying to barter, or you're implying he's not worth it... Neither option is going to bring you a warm and fuzzy response.

 

Two other things. You also offered to get together on an evening this week (without stating a preference), he offered you Wednesday after 7, and you declined. That, in combo with the rate issue, is going to set some warning bells off in any escort's mind when dealing with a first-time customer.

 

The second point is the 'question'. Now, of course, I have no idea what thread you're referring to, but a lot of them tend to get a bit over-heated. And the fact that he didn't respond indicates either the subject is delicate or that he didn't want to start/expand a flame-war. So rather than refer him to the thread, it probably would have been better just to simply ask the question yourself, privately, through the e-mail.

 

Hope these thoughts help,

 

Alan

[Guest Merlin]

Once you told him his rate was high, he concluded it was a non-starter, that is, that you were going to waste his time with questions etc, and in the end, not hire him. He may also have concluded that you are going to be hard to get along with. The guys who are most concerned with the fee are often the most demanding and difficult to satisfy. I assume the "ourstanding question" was one seeking a detail of the sex he was promising. That, in connnection with the difficulty over the fee, may have suggested to him that you might be a cop.

[Guest Havan_IronOak]

We don't really know all of the details so its a bit innacurate for us to judge your exchange after the fact. Also hindsight is 20/20, but given that...

 

It did sound like he offered a date that was within your original list and yet you said timing might be a probelm? That does sound a bit hinky.

 

You could have softened your critique of his rate by adding a compliment to it. Something along the lines of "but from your pictures I'm sure you're worth it". If your really were not trying to bargain but instead trying to pass along some information you probably should have waited until you met him.

 

Since your main concern here is about improving your communications skills, my question is... Why didn't you get ask for a phone number in your initial exchange and THEN discuss the details over the phone? I can usually tell a lot more about somebody and how they're interpreting what I'm saying in a phone conversation than I can in an e-mail. Plus you get the added clues as to someone's personality and attitudes that helps you decide if you and the guy are gonna be a good combination.

[SAdler]

Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

Hee hee. Having gotten to know PWIT I know your style and know how you meant those messages to come across -- so all I can personally reply with is ...

 

Aww muffin, ::shakes head in cute amusement::

 

Otherwise everyone pretty much knows where I stand on that issue. Bargaining is the 8th deadly sin. Purplekow is my new best friend with the "ultimately" comment. The escort sets the rate and you decide if you're going to pay it. End of story.

 

What you'll find most often without having either party insulted is that if you say a rate is beyond your range (and leave it at that DO NOT OFFER OR COMPARE) then an escort who really wants/needs the appointment will come down to try to meet you.

 

It's definitely like creating an incentive plan to see someone more often or again in a short period of time, same concept. Figured THAT might make the most sense babe MUAH ... miss ya

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>Purplekow is my new

>best friend

 

Back off; I saw him first.

[SAdler]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>Back off; I saw him first.

 

But I saw him BEST Muah ha aha ahahahhah .... hmm ok.

 

Ego-maniacal laughing isn't working at the moment but you get the idea.

 

::muah::

[Guest PWIT]

>Now, I happen to think that the escort's brush-off was a bit

>curt but then he obviously thinks highly of himself and if

>he's succeeding with $300/1st hr, then maybe he has a right to

>think so...

 

Have had a couple email exchanges with him since...he seems like a good guy, but am sure I just wasn't clear and touched a sensitive spot.

 

>I agree with the other posters that you handled the money

>issue poorly. If you don't get into bartering, why bring it

>up? From an escort's perspective, you either are trying to

>barter, or you're implying he's not worth it... Neither

>option is going to bring you a warm and fuzzy response.

 

Chalk that one up to lesson learned. I'm a stubborn cuss, but I do try to learn from my mistakes.

 

>Two other things. You also offered to get together on an

>evening this week (without stating a preference), he offered

>you Wednesday after 7, and you declined. That, in combo with

>the rate issue, is going to set some warning bells off in any

>escort's mind when dealing with a first-time customer.

 

My fault in displaying the data...the email messages were spread over time, not all in one day. By time the Wednesday offer came around I had made other plans.

 

>The second point is the 'question'. Now, of course, I have no

>idea what thread you're referring to, but a lot of them tend

>to get a bit over-heated. And the fact that he didn't

>respond indicates either the subject is delicate or that he

>didn't want to start/expand a flame-war. So rather than refer

>him to the thread, it probably would have been better just to

>simply ask the question yourself, privately, through the

>e-mail.

 

The thread reference was to a place in the message center where the escort was asked a question about what he does/doesn't do. I removed it because it would have identified the escort and the purpose of the post was for a critique of the way I handled the situation and what I could do to communicate better in the future.

 

>Hope these thoughts help,

 

Thanks Alan, it does. :-)

[+ purplekow]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>>Purplekow is my new

>>best friend

>

>Back off; I saw him first.

 

 

What better way to come home from a rotten day than to find two

(three really Hiya Derek) fighting over you. I may need to call 911 my heart is so aflutter.

[Guest PWIT]

Interesting perspective and good to know. I am usually not very demanding or difficult to satisfy and do not want to give that perception, so will take that to heart.

 

and thanks for not dinging me too hard on my spelling! :-)

[Guest PWIT]

>It did sound like he offered a date that was within your

>original list and yet you said timing might be a probelm? That

>does sound a bit hinky.

 

see my response to another poster's comments....I failed to provide a timeline of the messages, so by time I got the notice of the Wednesday availability I had already made other plans.

 

>You could have softened your critique of his rate by adding a

>compliment to it. Something along the lines of "but from your

>pictures I'm sure you're worth it". If your really were not

>trying to bargain but instead trying to pass along some

>information you probably should have waited until you met him.

 

Point taken. I usually make such comments when talking verbally, but find I often do not when discussing in the written word. I tend to edit those comments out...afraid of sounding corny. All my emails tend to be dry and matter-of-fact. I need to work on that for sure.

 

>Since your main concern here is about improving your

>communications skills, my question is... Why didn't you get

>ask for a phone number in your initial exchange and THEN

>discuss the details over the phone? I can usually tell a lot

>more about somebody and how they're interpreting what I'm

>saying in a phone conversation than I can in an e-mail. Plus

>you get the added clues as to someone's personality and

>attitudes that helps you decide if you and the guy are gonna

>be a good combination.

 

Good point. Thanks for feedback.

[Guest PWIT]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>Hee hee. Having gotten to know PWIT I know your style and

>know how you meant those messages to come across -- so all I

>can personally reply with is ...

>

>Aww muffin, ::shakes head in cute amusement::

 

whew!....thought you were going to tell them about my dungeon. Which head you shaking? :9

 

>MUAH ... miss ya

 

miss ya too. I'm going to let the cat of the bag...Scott's bark (on the message center) is worse than his bite. What a schweetie. Hope you have a great time on the upcoming cruise. Don't forget to check the ice bucket ;-)

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>What better way to come home from a rotten day than to find

>two

>(three really Hiya Derek) fighting over you.

 

Derek says, "Hey, how ya doin'?" and I'm really impressed that he was able to string four intelligible words together. As for your bad day...we'll have to do something about that very soon, Maryanne Faithful. ;-)

[augustman]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

Dear PWIT:

You did not do too badly and thanks for allowing us to comment on your approach. We have all made mistakes in communication and your willingness to ask says a lot about you.

 

I thought the best response was in Fact Scott's. A similar conversation on this front a year ago led to similar results regarding the use of the term negotiation. I have used his approach and it has worked fine. I have used it mainly when discussing overnights. I prefer the escort to give me a price first; I do not like it when escort asks my offer first. When that occurs I am honest and say here is the average price I have paid in the past. On hourly appointments I found guys less likely to adjust rates even when you say thanks not in my range. Now multi hour and overnights I have found most, if you have done your homework and the guy has a good feeling about the meeting he will probably give you an adjusted rate.

 

Just one last thought. I may have people disagree with me on this on rates, specifically to the gentleman who suggested that the guy is pedaling his ass do not feel sensitive regarding asking about rates, and I do disagree with you. I do not do hourly appointments. Always 2 hours or more. My location and lack travel dictate that. I am not sure even accepting an adjusted rate from a guy is to the client’s advantage. I would say I have had 50% luck regarding this subject. I can think of twice out of four times when this has occurred the meeting has been less than expected. Not worth a negative review, just not worth a recommended review.

 

To ask question which PWIT alluded to which was the crux of the problem in the first place, "What makes the experience with you worth $300 per hour?" Now I think I have learned through experience that I can address this by being clear in my email what my expectations are and then leave it up to the guy to decide whether he is comfortable performing with that. That said do I turn guys off being blunt or do I come off being hard to work with?

[JT Brooklyn]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

augustman I do agree that, on Appointments of 2 Hours or more, there is Definitely No Reason not to ask about a Rate Decrease after the First Hour!

 

Most Biz is "1 Hr Slam- Bam Top Biz". Which is fine for the Client's looking to Bend Over and then bye bye! Doing them, is real easy for most Working Guy's! LOL

 

BUT For those of us who enjoy Foreplay etc, 2 hours is more enjoyable and in Most Cases, also for the Working Guy! IF he does only 2 Clients a day, it can work for him as well $$.

 

And you never know, a "Negotiation" can lead to a long time Working Guy-Client Relationship! That's a Win-Win Situation! :P

[SAdler]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>whew!....thought you were going to tell them about my dungeon.

> Which head you shaking? :9

 

I would never mention the dungeon and risk not getting a chance to break out the riding crop and flog on an unsuspecting bottom again ... Come get a closer look to see which head

 

>miss ya too. I'm going to let the cat of the bag...Scott's

>bark (on the message center) is worse than his bite. What a

>schweetie.

 

Curses, foiled again. Now the secret is out

 

>Hope you have a great time on the upcoming

>cruise. Don't forget to check the ice bucket ;-)

 

BAAAAAAAAAAH. UGH. No ... the safe. LOL. Hmmm. Wait. Roommate. CRAP. I don't think I will EVER enjoy an inside joke as much as that one Thanks for the reminder babe, try twisting that knife 15 degrees clockwise now

[Guest PWIT]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>I would never mention the dungeon and risk not getting a

>chance to break out the riding crop and flog on an

>unsuspecting bottom again

 

I almost choked on that one! Now people will think you succeeded where others have failed. But rest assured, I still hold that impenetrable title. Some day, some day...

 

>I don't think I will EVER enjoy an inside

>joke as much as that one Thanks for the reminder babe, try

>twisting that knife 15 degrees clockwise now

 

LOL....was thinking how interesting that inside joke would have made as a message center topic! <pulls the knife slowly out>

[Guest PWIT]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

August & JT,

I too enjoy the multi hour experience...have to admit I am quit fond of the foreplay...don't know how many times I have slowed people down in thier disrobing. Of course I enjoy the underwear time too! :9

 

Regarding your last point August, I have always felt uncomfortable discussing my expectations or any sexual preferences other than in a most general way with an escort I have not met. Now, for a second date/experience, I am more able to open up and discuss likes/dislikes. Maybe it is that undercover fear that always seems to be present in the back of my mind. Would be interested in hearing more on how you discuss your expectations on a first visit.

 

Thanks guys.

[JT Brooklyn]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

PWIT..Trust Me. IF you cannot be Upfront with the "Type of Experience" you are looking for, Hooking up The First Time..BEFORE the meeting....

Don't expect to meet a guy, you will be Repeating with!

 

The Working Guy's are not mind reader's. Taking the Time to figure out just where your Buttons are, Definitely is going to Suck Up your Clock Time! "Much Less Bang for the Buck"

 

You'll end up spending more TIME on Conversation, (which is what SOME guys do look for also) less time on Fun!

IMHO of course. LOL :P

[Guest PWIT]

RE: Did we expect me not to weigh in on this one?

 

>PWIT..Trust Me. IF you cannot be Upfront with the "Type of

>Experience" you are looking for, Hooking up The First

>Time..BEFORE the meeting....

>Don't expect to meet a guy, you will be Repeating with!

 

I guess I have been very lucky in finding guys that are good repeat experiences. I will discuss my likes in a very general way....but not in an email as a direct expectation for the first visit. Sort of a wink wink nod nod kind of understanding.