Top=Man & Bottom=Woman?!

[nice guy]

Many straight friends have asked me this over the years. Moreover, many gay men must agree because I regularly hear them joke that bottoming is being "less than a man," or other ways of feminizing the act of bottoming. I saw a chatroom dialogue recently about this and tops were described as "studly, manly, tough, etc." Bottoms had no such positive connotations ascribed to them, with comments such as "a bottom has to do nothing but lie there and moan like a woman, hopefully able to do his nails at the same time."

 

Of course I'm aware that this type of "girlfriend" chatter is said to elicit laughs. But I find it to be so prevalent, even among some of my masculine friends, that I wonder what's going on. I'm not a psychologist or knowledgeable about Freud, but I'm guessing that much of it emanates from the perceived roles of men and women, and how since a woman is the one who "gets fucked" in a heterosexual relationship, then it follows that the gay person who gets fucked is "acting like" the woman. I don't ascribe to this at all, I want to emphasize.

 

I suppose this bothers me because until recently, I've been an exclusive top. I've added bottoming to my repertoire in the last year and am to the point that I can really enjoy bottoming with the right person. Perhaps I held some of these rigid views too of what it means to top or bottom, because I was a tad embarrassed after bottoming the first few times. Now I don't care whatsoever and I'll top or bottom, with my ultimate experience being to flipfuck with my partner. But it still bothers me when I hear comments in our community about how "he's JUST a bottom," as though the top does everything. Bottoming well is not that easy to do, I've come to find, and I feel as though I've become even better and more in-tune as a top, having bottomed myself.

 

Do you agree with me that people seem to devalue the role of the bottom, and perhaps even suggest they are less masculine, etc.? If so, why?

 

Thanks

[AaronScottDC]

This is just one more ridiculous stereotype that has been tossed around for many years, along with:

 

- Jocks are all dumb

- Women can't run a corporation, a business or be President

- Math and computer geeks can't play sports

- White men can't jump

 

Sure you can find examples to support each of these statements. But, they are hardly the norm. And who makes up what the norm is anyway?

 

In one country or culture, it may be normal for two adult, straight men to hold hands, embrace each other and even kiss on the lips. None of which would make them any less masculine in the eyes of their peers. While in another culture, any man who doesn't constantly verbally and physically shun or abuse other men whom he deems feminine in any way, isn't really being "a man" and will get shit from his peers if he doesn't act accordingly.

 

So, yeah, there are a lot of guys out there, both gay and straight, who feel that being a top is masculine and being a bottom is feminine. When ever I meet one of them, I love to throw them down on their backs, rip off their pants, and ride their dicks like I'm a cowboy in a bucking bronco derby! Yee Ha! Giddy up, horsey! After we are all spent and sweaty, I ask them who was REALLY "the top" and just fucking rocked their world? I hardly just lay there and do my nails.... But, to each their own.... :o }( :9

 

 

Aaron Scott DC

http://www.erados.com/AaronScottDC

http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/aaronscottdc.html

[guptasa1]

I think this is completely false even though, yes, it's widely out there. I think it all comes down to the bottom and their personality. But I don't think it's at all immasculine to bottom (unless you want it to be and get off on that idea). I don't think in a gay relationship there has to be a man and a woman. (Though I also think it CAN be structured that way if that's one's preference).

 

For me (who's versatile but tend to bottom more than top), I *do* like the feeling of vulnerability and being held and taken with strong arms, etc., so I suppose in that sense, you could say I take the more passive role. That's just me though.

 

I also think bottoming well is in some ways more challenging than topping (not that both don't require skill). And bottoming, as pointed out, CAN be done aggressively too. When I do top, I certainly don't think the guy I'm with is the "girl". Actually, one of my fantasies is to be "fucked" by the bottom rather forcefully (him bottoming aggressively and holding me down). =oP

 

One other thing I might point out. When you say people might say about someone "they're JUST a bottom", they might just mean that they don't top and is not as derogatively as it comes off. (I myself have always been perplexed by guys who don't top at all - nothing at all against them, but I guess I've just never figured that out, even though I understand people who might prefer not to bottom; guess it's just a preference; I know one friend who refuses to do ANYTHING top, even receive a blow job.).

 

Anyways, just my two cents. All comes down to different strokes for different folks and what everyone prefers I guess.

[Trixie]

RE: Top=Man & Bottom=Woman?!

 

I find it is always in my best interest to make my partners feel that the bottom role is "manly"... even after I untie them.

We are talking about tickling, ne c'est pas?

 

Trix

[SAdler]

Definitely in agreement with the widely understood theory floating about in the gay community here. What it comes down to is sexual vengeance and power....Our patriarchal society attributes that to the aggressor.

 

By that same token one could assume a power bottom is the essential "top" of the relationship. But in reality, because we have grown up in a male dominated society which empowers the penis and the top role, we are conditioned to believe that bottoming is less manly and a secret to hide.

 

FURTHER more it becomes a second closet. I write for my university's gay magazine and we have a recurring article called coming out of the *** closet. In other words, gays come out of one closet but then have other fetishes or secret desires they have to hide as well. My most conroversial so far has been "Coming Out of the Bottom Closet."

 

Lots of fun to research, lots of fun to write So with a psych degree and this research under my belt I have to ask the fun question...

 

"How many guys that are "versatile" are really looking to top someone ?"

[vabballfan]

RE: Top=Man & Bottom=Woman?!

 

I don't know. The best bottoms I've been with have been very masculine and the best tops I have been with have also been masculine.

 

I was a top exclusively until I was 29 years old. I was turned off my a bottom that wasn't masculine. I don't go for effeminate guys - period. They totally turn me off. I'm not effeminate and I don't want my partner to be either.

 

If I wanted to fuck a woman I would. I want to fuck a man (all man). The best bottoms I've ever been with were mostly over 6' tall and were bigger built as apposed to lean and thin. There's something about a guy at 6'2", 200 pounds that loves to get his ass pounded and backs onto my cock. Flipping is even better.

[SAdler]

RE: Top=Man & Bottom=Woman?!

 

Nobody, especially not me, is denying that. By all means a bottom that takes it like a man is even hotter. Flipping, hell the concept thereof gets me hard writing about.

 

I'm just commenting on our social norms and what society has created and the mental images we now retain. What it does come back to which you definitely portrayed in the recent post is the concept of "sexual vengeance."

 

Adam is constantly getting even with Eve for picking the fucking apple off the tree and screwing up EVERYONE's lives. Thus, the male figure is always looking for a way to demean the female. It's a psychological nature of blame. When two men get together, whoever is on the bottom is reverting to that "female" role.

 

In gay culture, we have this strange obsession with seeing frat boys, and straight guys taking it. To the gay culture, there is a serious abhorrance to straight men and their culture because they are our Eve. They fucked up our utopia simply by being there as a threat like in cases of Matthew Shephered and other bashings. So as a result, we like to see a masculine frat boy getting pounded by a bunch of cocks.

 

Anyway, far too early for me to be getting into dialogue about sexually subversive psychology. I need more coffee... ::GROaN::

[ErikMcAlister]

Not Quite

 

"They fucked up our utopia simply by being there as a threat like in cases of Matthew Shephered and other bashings. So as a result, we like to see a masculine frat boy getting pounded by a bunch of cocks."

 

A review of old porn shows plenty of "'masculine' frat boy(s) getting pounded by a bunch of cocks" well before the tragedy involving Matthew.

 

So much for your theory.

[SAdler]

RE: Not Quite

 

Erik --

 

Not to call you pompous, well, I am actually so nevermind that. But your only refute to my theory, which isn't just mine it's widely shared in the accredited sexually psychological community, is that you didn't read my statement completely.

 

The statement was regarding the Matthew Shepherd incident (being cited as one of the most well known and wasn't even BY frat boys) being after the porn industry. I wrote "and other bashings." The straight community has violently suppressed the gays for a long time. You want to go further back in history before frat boys in porn, lets bring up the Holocaust.

 

A bunch of blonde haired, blue eyed buff guys being violent with people strictly because they're gay. Next comment? I wrote the paper, so I don't think you're going to win this one.

 

Furthermore, I may come off as confrontational in this but perhaps you should learn to be respectful when answering posts like this. Next time, try saying something along the lines of. "I see what you're saying but what about ...... Perhaps this can be taken into consideration in your theory?"

 

That way, nobody feels stepped on. Difference between "I" and "You" statements. Have a good day. Where did I put my espresso?

[Athan]

Sorry I'm late! Had I known you all needed the advice of a talented bottom I would have made it here sooner (I was busy getting fucked and doing my nails, hahahahaha just kidding).

 

But for real, the role of the bottom is often viewed as less than masculine because those people who are stereotyping us have no idea what goes into being a bottom (hehehe). It is my experience that though my tops tend to be more "masculine" and "in your face" they are usually pussies when it comes to physical or emotional pain (no offense to anyone who thinks I am referring to you, hehe). Bottoms (or at least people who have the bottom mentality and not just anyone who has taken a dick up their ass and thought it was

"neat") are able to deal with pain better...at least I am. I am of course, not into pain at all...but I know how to deal with it when I feel it.

All too often I have had some butch top give me (what they thought was...) a good pounding and ask me to do the same to them...then what comes out of the big, manly tops mouth? Oooh, hold on, oooo it hurts ;( *whimper whimper, bitch bitch*...and I'm like "Shut up BITCH! take it like a MAN!" (of course I never say that to them, I am just too nice) hehehe.

 

So, I think if guys want to be a strong, tough MAN then they should try taking it up the ass and see how tough they are, hahahaha!

(Biatches!)

[noviceny]

Nice guy,

 

I agree with your statement about where you think these stereotypes come from. One of the first comments that I remember being said about another guy in my office by another gay man was, "Oh he's just a big bottom." It was used to refer to him being a pussy or a baby or whatever you want to call it.

 

All of these script messages that we received from society, our parents, etc. need to be actively challenged by us, on an individual level.

 

Concepts like "Take it like a man" "Stop being such a pussy" etc. have a sexist history behind them. I could write here all night about the gay community and what we should and shouldnt do or say. However, I think my time would be better spent analysing and evaluating what I do and say in my life, towards gays and straights. I do have prejudices and stereotypes about people, but Ill be damned if I wont challenge myself on these issues.

 

Maybe some day, when Im older, Ill be able to accept all persons without having all of my own stuff getting in the way. I think I do a really good job with that, but posts like these always keep me on my toes. I see myself in other people's comments.

[Uncle Bill]

Anthan and Scott have both bottomed for me, and I'd surely never mistake them for women (I have one of those at home, so I know the difference, lol). WOW! is all I can say about their performances (I like the guy on top, and they both know how to work it). I also love how intelligent and well spoken they are (not that they are the only such escorts on this board). Adds a lot to the discussion and to their relationships with their clients.

[+ deej]

Athan said a mouthful. (And he IS a fabulous bottom!)

 

The attitudes described in this thread are deeply ingrained in the porn industry as a whole, as well. Bottoms get paid less than tops. Bottoms RARELY attain superstar status. "Exclusive tops" bottom on screen for the first time when their stardom starts to tarnish. Perhaps since so many gay men were introduced to gay sex through porn, some of that was ingrained in us?

 

But try (just try) making a fuck film without a bottom. Bottoms actually control the whole deal. If they're not taking a dick in there, there ain't nothing going on. The top may as well fuck a bale of hay. Put a great top with a boring bottom, and it's a boring scene. Put a great top with a savvy and voracious bottom and you've got a winner.

 

Bottom IS the power position.

 

The whole notion that bottoms are "less manly" is basically gay men trying not to admit to what the heteros call being pussy-whipped. I LIKE being pussy-whipped. ;-)

[SAdler]

Thus, in closing, we can all raise out glasses and say ...

 

........oh c'mon guys you knew this was cumming....

 

...BOTTOMS UP!

[+ deej]

We'll have to try that some time. }(

[SAdler]

pardon nes mois

[Vincent_Michael]

I love your response Athan!!

 

I totally agree I sometimes get into the fuck me like a silly bitch mood but over all im still pretty assertive after its all said and done. I do think you’re very correct in noting that men who top are more sensitive.

 

I relate emotions however to work and family for the most part...For me I am a top and a bottom and love to have a good cry and share my emotions with anyone who is willing to listen.

[PacNW]

>I relate emotions however to work and family for the most

>part...For me I am a top and a bottom and love to have a good

>cry and share my emotions with anyone who is willing to

>listen.

>

Listen to VM! He cries for the first time in years just a few days ago and suddenly he's on here propagandizing for rampant tear spilling. He's like a first timer who discovers sex with guys and thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread!!

 

JUST giving you a hard time. ( :7 and every other possible smilie not yet invented to convey good will!) I was honestly very happy for you to read about your breakthrough. I know it was important to you. You wear your heart on your sleeve around here way more than others, and although sometimes I fear that kind of emotional honesty is setting you up for a lot of hurt, it's a real pleasure when it allows us to share in your joy.

 

And BTW, I've been having sex with guys for years now, and I DO think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

[+ deej]

>pardon nes mois

 

I speak pasable spanish and that doesn't look like passable spanish.

 

On the other hand, I can be like Gomez Adams and get totally inflamed when you speak French (even tho I have no clue what you're saying).

[Stupid Cupid]

"Though Protest Too Much" !!

 

I can't see the need to insist to be manly...someone once said "Though Protest Too Much" !!

I'm proud to be a great bottom and a busy escort for several years...

I'm also proud to be slightly Effeminate and I love what I do, and my bottom is very popular indeed, and how I use it.

[SAdler]

Pookie, if it were meant to be spanish it would have been Perdon

 

Commence the flaming .... jeez, I'll bet I didn't even need to ask

[Luv2play]

Pardonez-moi?

[JT Brooklyn]

RE: "Though Protest Too Much" !!

 

Some Get great Physical Pleasure from the FRONT..Others get it from the BACK. SOME from both.. After all is said and done, that is all it is. A "Physical Sensation"...Man Woman..Cumming is Cumming... :+ :+ :+

[Guest timgetrum]

RE: "Though Protest Too Much" !!

 

>After all is said and done, that is all it is. A "Physical Sensation"...Man Woman..Cumming is Cumming...<

 

Disagree! This is another thing in life that is "overdetermined!" (i.e. there are multiple reasons) I don't have all the answers, but "feelings" are in there somewhere, all sorts of "feelings!" No easy, pat answer here.

:-)

[SAdler]

Thank you, my only expertise in "transliteration" exists in Hebrew. Oy, what ten years in private school can do to a boychik.