Have I been asking a dumb question?

[Guest drummer]

I think maybe I'm asking the wrong question.

 

I read this site regularly, and have always been impressed by how many of the escorts who post here clearly love their work and realize what a important service it is for their clients.

 

In the last year, I've hired an escort just a couple of times. I have pretty good natural rapport skills and have also had very good training in interacting with people, active listening, establishing rapport, etc. It seems like this may be backfiring on me--or perhaps with my limited experience it has just been the luck of the draw (or something in my karma!).

 

In these last two escort appointments, as I was talking with the escrot at the beginning of our session, it seemed very natural to ask him if he enjoys escorting. To my surprise, both times the guy has told me he doen't really enjoy it that much, needs the money, etc. I've decided to take it as a compliment that these guys were comfortable enough to be honest. But it is certainly not a turn on!

 

I'm finally at a point in my life where I'm making enough money that I can afford to hire an escort more frequently than once a year, and have let go of my inner issues about it being shameful to hire someone, etc. I'm ready to start hiring more often and have certain fantasies of just having good, affectionate sex with a hot young guy who gets into it. I'm pretty good looking, relaxed, clean, have a middle-aged belly but am not grossly overweight, and can be a very good sex partner.

 

So is it just stupid to ask someone if he enjoys his work? You guys who really enjoy this work are out there, right?

 

Thanks. Think I needed to vent more than anything.

[raife]

Hey drummer,

 

I know this is the Ask An Escort area, but as an immensely satisifed client, I just had to jump in with an unqualified yes!

 

I usually ask that same question when I'm getting to know a potential 'scort and I must say the average answer (in the US) if they're not being cagey about things is no or "not really" more than 75% of the time. Two main reasons that I can see:

 

[ul][li]All the derogatory anti-prostitution shit that society (I'm talking US here) heaps upon their head takes its toll. It takes real determination to swim upstream in this nasty current. Guys in other more accepting cultures value their chosen profession to a larger degree[/li]

 

[li]It takes a certian personality type & talent to really groove in this line of work. When you happen upon on one of these gifted guys, magic happens! You'll thank your lucky stars and never look back![/li][/ul]

 

In my own experiences I have had somewhat better luck with part-timers just because they have other sources of income, they can get away from it if they're feeling burned out, and they're doing it because they want to not because they have to (or think so...)

 

Keep up the good search my friend, you'll find all kinds of wonderful guys here on the board and vicinity. The hunt is well worth it.

 

-R src=http://www.radioparadise.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_cheers.gif

[Guest drummer]

>I know this is the Ask An Escort area, but as an

>immensely satisifed client, I just had to jump in with an

>unqualified yes!

>

>I usually ask that same question when I'm getting to know a

>potential 'scort and I must say the average answer (in the US)

>if they're not being cagey about things is no or "not really"

>more than 75% of the time.

 

Drummer here. LOL--about the obviousness of the answer to the question. (My question about my question?} I'm not planning to ask it any more. Unless perhaps the escort really seems to enjoy it, and then only after the session. If I am with, say, Devon in SF, I might ask it at the beginning! Otherwise, I'll let actions speak (or not) for themselves.

 

Thanks.

[Rick Munroe]

>So is it just stupid to ask someone if he enjoys his work?

>You guys who really enjoy this work are out there, right?

 

I've been asked that question before and I don't think it's a stupid question (but then again, I'm just a dumb whore so what do I know?). I can only speak for two escorts (Derek and myself) but yes, we love our work. Mostly because it isn't work at all.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

The Long And Winding Road

 

>[li]It takes a certian personality type

>& talent to really

>groove in this line of work.[/li][/ul]

 

Personally, the best advise I ever got as an escort was from a close friend in San Francisco, a former Falcon model who is no longer with his. When I decided to escort, after my frist client, we were sitting drinking in a South of Market bar doing a typical "post mortem," which we did after after film he was in, every date either of us or anything else going on in each other lives.

 

After listening to me, his only comment was, "so, was it worth the money." I said that I actually enjoyed the experience and found it interesting as well. He then asked me if I would have "done the guy" if he had not been a client of mine. I responded that most likely, I would not have found myself in a situation where I might have met this particular man. After a long conversation about attraction, types and, more importantly, social circles, we ended the conversation with his advice: never do anything, a client or a situation, you are not comfortable with. You will live to regret it, the client, the situation, the money, and you will not be happy about it.

 

Unfortunately, there are some escorts who feel "stuck" or who for one reason or another find themselves in unhappy circumstances. Sometimes, these are long lasting and other times these are temporary. I think the prior client pointed out a crucial aspect, which is true of this profession as any other: some guys really enjoy it and that shows in how their performance comes across and how you experience them. Some other guys treat this like what it is to them, pure and simple: a way to make money.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

What's dumb is that I'm replying to this when I need to be packing for Boston but -- surprise! -- I just can't help myself. Your question is not dumb at all, though it may not always be appropriate to voice it every time. You are not always faced with the choice between suppressing a thought and expressing it -- sometimes you can do neither (memo to myself: make a note of that). But frankly, you are right to wonder, and that needn't, and almost certainly shouldn't, cross over into paternalistic behavior, which could, in fact, include making the "principled" decision to stop seeing him because you don't want to "enable" his escorting, and which could do more harm than good (the same could be said for continuing with seeing someone you'd actually prefer not to see because you feel sorry for him).

 

You should stop hiring escorts if it's bad for YOU. You'll know it's getting bad from you if you decide you prefer not to care about other people. I happen to know some escorts who don't like escorting but feel trapped in it. The last thing they need is for the good guys to "wash their hands" of hiring because they find some of the harsher truths about the sex industry "unseemly," or to shut off the qualities that make them good people. Then there's just a higher concentration of vultures and users. It's also the last thing those of us who DO like escorting need -- and I include myself in the latter category.

 

The sex industry a) is not going away no matter how much you rightly disapprove of parts of it, and b) is, like it or not, EXTREMELY important to the overwhelming majority of gay men, and yes, I do feel comfortable stating that categorically, and I would remind anyone who thinks he's in a courtroom that he's not. I have never met a gay man -- including long before I ever thought about escorting -- whose sexuality wasn't influenced by the sex industry in some way, shape or form. You could argue, I guess, that straight people don't need sex workers (I'm not here to debate that proposition), but whatever the merits of that position, gay people DO need porn stars and strippers and escorts and I suspect will continue to do long after whatever golden age of across-the-board acceptance, knock wood, is ushered in. It doesn't make sense to treat something as important and influential as the sex industry like trash, or like a dirty little secret. All you're doing is replicating the dynamic of the closet. It makes a lot more sense to bring the sex industry into the daylight so we can acknowledge the validity of the purposes it serves and also acknowledge, so that we may improve upon, the things that don't work, are dehumanizing and are doing harm. (That's a big part of what I've been ranting about lately.)

 

No, you are NOT asking a dumb question. You are asking a vital question, and I hope you continue asking it, in your heart if not always with your voice. There aren't many other lines of work where you'd worry that it was dumb to ask someone if they liked what they do. It's normal to hope that people like their jobs and express an interest to that effect. Don't confuse decency with being dumb. There are enough people who do that already.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

If I am with, say,

>Devon in SF, I might ask it at the beginning!

 

LOL -- I just saw this. Thank you for your concern, but I'm not the one you need to be worrying about. I love my job, and that shows where it counts. I can tell a message board from a bedroom, and I trust the same is true of you. Hopefully you get my point: heated debate is appropriate in message boards, but not in the sack. I haven't confused the two circumstances once. I love working in the sex industry and for exactly that reason am speaking up so that my colleagues and I can have a sex industry that I can be proud to be a part of.) Stay tuned.

[Guest RandyRon]

I usually don't ask "the question" of an escort when we first meet. Maybe I don't really want to know up front. However, you can certainly tell those who truly enjoy what they're doing. Either that or they should be in film with those acting abilities.

 

One escort I've been with several times amazes me. He always goes at the sex at a fever pitch so that I feel desired. At my age I know I'm not a sex god so I don't get carried away. I've asked this escort if he enjoys it and he says that if he doesn't like a client he doesn't see them again. He's not the best built escort I've hired, the best looking, the best "hung," or has the best ass. However, he gives me the best feeling about both myself and him. He doesn't make me feel like I've just paid to molest the guy. That's why I keep going back again and again.

[Guest drummer]

>If I am with, say,

>>Devon in SF, I might ask it at the beginning!

>

>LOL -- I just saw this. Thank you for your concern, but I'm

>not the one you need to be worrying about. I love my job, and

>that shows where it counts.

 

Actually, Devon, what I meant was that it's self-evident that you love your work. If I have the opportunity to have a session with you (which seems unlikely in the near future since I don't have plans to go to SF and you don't seem to be planning a trip to Indianapolis), I wouldn't hesitate in a breaking-the-ice conversation to ask you "the question," since I know you'd say you enjoy being an escort.

 

I think you were perhaps combining your answer to my specific question with thoughts on another issue about exploiting escorts, which is not something I'm worrying about. I'm just starting my life as a client, not contemplating ending it! You're just so fucking smart you connected the paternalistic aspect (which I didn't realize until now but I think is there) of my asking escorts if they like escorting with the paternalism of not hiring escorts or buying porn or whatever if one considers it to be exploiting the escort, porn actor, etc.

 

I'm an avid reader of Devon's Diary, and it's out of that experience, as well as reading posts from guys like Rick and Franco that I asked the question to my two part-time escorts, who turn out not to be too crazy about it.

 

Since the guy I was with most recently seemed not to think highly of escorting, I (always the teacher) actually gave him a bit of a pep talk. He's studying to be a nurse, and I shared with him what I consider to be the positive and I think often healing (in my case and obviously for many others) aspects of sexwork (plus referred him to Devon's Diary as suggested reading). He thought it was just bullshit (at first) when I suggested he could think of himself as a healer and his work with massage/escort clients as a different mode for expressing the same healing impulses which are drawing him into nursing.

 

I explained to him that for me, even though I'm out and have given up trying to be straight, I'm still healing wounds from all those years of shame at being gay. I didn't go into all these details, but 20 years ago, when I was 25, like my escort, I did have sex with plenty of good looking guys in their twenties, but (pre-therapy) I could never fully enjoy something as basic as sucking a guy's dick. I kept imagining the face of my horrified, homophobic father floating overhead, and often felt that I was attracted to other guys just because I wasn't enough of a man. Lots of emotional garbage. So having the opportunity to be with a beautiful guy in his early or mid twenties is a very healing thing for my sexual self or inner 23-year-old or whatever.

 

I teach at an undergraduate college that is in a small, fairly rural city (where I live) some distance from Indianapolis. Being with an escort is a great way for me to release the sexual tension of being attracted to hot college-age guys; there is no appropriate release for that tension here (other than jerking off)--the only gay guys I meet here are students at the college. Otherwise I just have to repress that strong secual energy which, bottled up, can unconsicously color or affect my interactions with some students.

 

Even though my recent experience with this particular escort wasn't all I had hoped for (no kissing or physical affection from him), I still really enjoyed touching his body, sucking his dick guilt-free and finding that tremendously arousing, and watching him jerk himself off (which I find incredibly hot), so I still got a lot out of the experience.

 

Actually, having a couple of experiences with college-age (or close to it) escorts who haven't been 100% into having sex with me has been helpful in a good way. When I find a student attractive and start fantasizing about having sex with him, I remember the unsatisfying aspects of the sex with the escorts who had hot bodies but were not digging me, and that bursts a bubble that might otherwise leave me fighting the temptation to flirt with or hit on the student.

 

I know that talking with my most recent escort about what a beautiful and healing thing erotic work can be was as much for me (just getting over my shame about "having to hire someone") as it was for him, if not more so. He got my point about escorting, even if he wasn't quite sure he agreed with it.

 

It seemed an unlikely dissonance to me that he was very effective giving a massage--genuinely identifying and working on muscular tensions, seeming to enjoy that, and not just going through the emotions--and yet still having so many negative feelings about the erotic/sexual aspect of the work, and being surprised at my suggestion that it can be considered healing, too. Well, it's probably appropriate that he's going to be a nurse, not a full-time escort.

 

--Drummer

[Rick Munroe]

>You are asking a

>vital question, and I hope you continue asking it, in your

>heart if not always with your voice.

 

What should he do if his heart answers? Personally, that would freak me out.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>Actually, Devon, what I meant was that it's self-evident that

>you love your work.

 

Thank you. Due to the late hour and hurried conditions when I made my post I misinterpreted your remark in light of what some other posters here lately have claimed is "self-evident" about who I am and what I'm like as an escort.

 

If I have the opportunity to have a

>session with you (which seems unlikely in the near future

>since I don't have plans to go to SF and you don't seem to be

>planning a trip to Indianapolis), I wouldn't hesitate in a

>breaking-the-ice conversation to ask you "the question," since

>I know you'd say you enjoy being an escort.

 

>I think you were perhaps combining your answer to my specific

>question with thoughts on another issue about exploiting

>escorts, which is not something I'm worrying about. I'm just

>starting my life as a client, not contemplating ending it!

 

Yes -- I realized after I posted that I was piggybacking a lot of ideas onto thoughts raised by your post. Glad to hear you're in the early stages, rather than the later. As I said we need the good guys!

 

>You're just so fucking smart you connected the paternalistic

>aspect (which I didn't realize until now but I think is there)

>of my asking escorts if they like escorting with the

>paternalism of not hiring escorts or buying porn or whatever

>if one considers it to be exploiting the escort, porn actor,

>etc.

 

Just to clarify -- I DON'T think it's paternalistic to ask escorts if they like what they do. I think it's human. What I meant would be paternalistic would be to carry that over into assuming one knew what was best for the escort.

 

>So having the opportunity to be with a beautiful guy in his early

>or mid twenties is a very healing thing for my sexual self or

>inner 23-year-old or whatever.

 

VERY true. In Buddhism (and I'm not proseletysing here but just expressing a concept that has influenced my thinking) there's a ceremony called (in Japanese) Segaki -- "feeding the hungry ghosts" -- which refers to unsatisfied parts of ourselves. My experiences both as escort and client have, in many cases, performed a kind Segaki for me. And one of the nicest potential effects is that once your inner 23-year-old has had a few chances to be fed, he starts to relax a little, and to spend less time haunting you (by "you" I don't necessarily mean "you in particular," since I don't know much about you, but "one"). (The flip side is that one can also go in the opposite direction and turn one's hungry ghost into a dictatorial glutton, lol.)

 

>I teach at an undergraduate college that is in a small, fairly

>rural city (where I live) some distance from Indianapolis.

 

Ooo, I bet I know which city! I've heard the boys are FINE there! I'll send you a private message and see if I'm right.

 

>I know that talking with my most recent escort about what a

>beautiful and healing thing erotic work can be was as much for

>me (just getting over my shame about "having to hire someone")

>as it was for him, if not more so. He got my point about

>escorting, even if he wasn't quite sure he agreed with it.

 

Good for you. Escorting is one of those subjects in which the actual ways of looking at it vary so widely across the board that hearing how others look at it can be salutary. It sounds like the idea of erotic work you described to this escort represented a new way of looking at it, and that, to my mind can only be a good thing. Whether he's ready to accept or buy into the argument right now or not is immaterial -- what's great is that you've opened up a little more space in what may have been a previously constricted outlook.

 

>It seemed an unlikely dissonance to me that he was very

>effective giving a massage--genuinely identifying and working

>on muscular tensions, seeming to enjoy that, and not just

>going through the emotions--and yet still having so many

>negative feelings about the erotic/sexual aspect of the work,

>and being surprised at my suggestion that it can be considered

>healing, too.

 

Sounds like he carries a lot of the ideas of the culture he grew up in with him, which is understandable. It's encouraging that he's still capable of being surprised.

 

Funny, I've been having conversations recently with a colleague who takes a very dim view of our profession. He is clearly damaging himself by continuing as he is. When I explained to him what my relationships with my clients are like, unfortunately, instead of encouraging him to see other possibilities, he just took my experience as the exception that proves the rule. It doesn't help, and it's highly relevant, that he has a rather low opinion of people in general, not just clients in particular. Once I realized this I encouraged him to set up a timetable for exiting the profession and to take tangible steps to make that happen.

 

If you find yourself with an escort who, it's clear, doesn't like his profession, if you can feel comfortable doing so, I'd encourage you to draw him out for a few minutes and find out what he hates most about it, what types of clients/situation are the worst, and then, if you can do so without neglecting your needs as a client, to be as much the opposite of that as you can. If he can pick up on that genuine human warmth, your brief exchange with him may have positive ripple effects that you may never know about. If he's used to feeling like trash, for example, it's important that he get to be around someone who doesn't think he's trash. The same goes for clients: being with an escort who can show he cares can help them learn to let other people care about them. (It still surprises and saddens me to meet gay men who have a hard time accepting love and affection from others. It is simply too foreign for them to assimilate.)

[+ Oliver]

RR -

 

>One escort I've been with several times amazes me. He always

goes at the sex at a fever pitch so that I feel desired. At

my age I know I'm not a sex god so I don't get carried away. He's not the best built escort I've hired, the best looking, the best "hung," or has the best ass. However, he gives me the best

feeling about both myself and him....That's why I keep

going back again and again.<

 

These are the best reasons for being with the best escorts

 

Oliver

[SmallTownJohn]

I have a fantastic time meeting people. But I have heard many escorts just dog out clients & tell me how little effort they put forth during a session because they just want to "get through it" to make party money.

 

Those are the guys who give us a bad rep.

 

John

http://www.SmallTownJohn1.com

"Put Some South in Your Mouth"

[Bilbo]

Devon - The idea of sexual healing might have been new to that escort, which is what I hope you meant, but it's not a new idea per se. Here I go again, pushing an organization/school which is very important to me, but some of our readers might want to check out bodyelectric.org

And one of the first things that Body Electric teaches is the ability to accept pleasure without having to immediately shift your focus to pleasuring the other person. Just to be able to lie there and accept it and enjoy it for what, 45 minutes or so. Which actually isn't selfish, because then you get up, take a short break and then do the same thing for your partner. Unless, perhaps, your partner is one of BE's highly trained erotic masseurs (And the massage is not the only thing they do.) who are referred to as a group as Sacred Intimates.

[Juan Vancouver]

Man, there ARE happy escorts, of course!

 

This is a very delicate profession, because for many it entices guilt, shame and all the moral hang over that religion can create. Lots of escorts do it just because of the money, or as a desperate situation, and hate it. Some other kind of like it, but tell clients that they hate it to add a dramatic flavour to make the client feel guilty and tip more out of pitty.... And of course, there is the third kind: Escorts who love their work, enjoy it fully, choose it as a profession willingly, and see the marvelous service that it is.

I am one of the latter. I believe that lots of wars, crime and most of our society's problems are created by people's lack of fulfillment. We all need human touch, affection, feeling loved and wanted. We need to be able to express our sexual desires and fantasies in a safe healthy way, and professional escorts joyfully provide this service.

I am an idealist, and to me, the joyfull pleasurable service of going with you to have dinner and talk about your family, or going to your hotel room and fulfilling your darkest deepest desires IS like a sacred duty.

My only advise is: Find an escort who loves his job. Dont feel guilty, because guilt takes away pleasure. And the next time that you are ready to hire an escort, do ask him directly. A real professional proud escort will never mind you asking and will tell you inmediately that he does love it. You will be sure then that you will have what you are looking for.

Happy hiring and lots of pleasure to you!!:7

[Guest drummer]

Thanks for all the answers. The affection, support, and intelligent comments have been a joy. And it is great to confirm that there are guys out there who have chosen escorting and enjoy and believe in it.

 

I'll make my next appointment with someone with good reviews on this site and with whom I can communicate directly before the appointment. Since I really want to have my next session be with someone who LIKES escorting, realizes the positive and beneficial aspects of it, and respects himself and his work and me, I'll make sure I establish that first.

 

My most recent appointment was made in late afternoon the same day I wanted the appointment (sort of an impulse thing). Planning and more careful selection will help with this as much as with anything else, I'm sure.

 

I may make a trip up to Chicago--there are certainly more guys up there with great reviews than here in Indy. Sorry I wasn't able to go up for Sunday's Hooville meeting!

 

--Drummer

[Michael]

>I think maybe I'm asking the wrong question.

>

[ ... ]

>

>So is it just stupid to ask someone if he enjoys his work?

>You guys who really enjoy this work are out there, right?

>

 

No, it isn't stupid to ask the question ...

 

... but, before asking *any* question, you should think carefully about *why* you are asking it, and whether you *really* want to know the answer.

[guptasa1]

One of the most important factors in hiring an escort for me is whether or not he enjoys it, so it's not a dumb question at all IMHO. I know for a fact there are some guys out there who do enjoy it and probably more of those who don't. For me, if I ask that question and the guy doesn't like what he's doing or is ONLY doing it for the money (happened a few times...mostly with agencies where the representative I spoke with either misrepresented or flat-out lied about the escort, which is why I generally like setting things up one on one instead), it REALLY makes me uncomfortable. I mean, yeah I'm paying, but I really don't want to spend time with someone who hates being there and doesn't want to have a good time too.

 

But to answer your questions, I've been with a few escorts who I really sincerely believe like escorting. One person I see fairly regularly in particular is very honest about it (good and bad - he's had bad experiences too), but enjoys it overall and has no problem discussing that pretty openly. And it's great to spend time with a guy who wants to make the most out of their time with his client, bond with them a little, and have some fun too!

 

Like any other occupation, I think people should do what they enjoy doing. If they don't, not only will they not be as good at it (people are much better at what they enjoy), but it could harm them later. Yes, escorting pays well, but if someone hates it, the regrets later IMO would far outweigh the benefits. Money can be nice, but it certainly isn't everything.

 

Sometimes I think instead of advertising "no attitude", escorts who enjoy what they do should start advertising "good attitude" instead! LOL.

 

Just my two cents and my own observations.

[Guest drummer]

Starting this thread has had an unintended side effect for me. I teach one-on-one instrumental music at a college and privately. Thinking about escorts and whether or not they enjoy what they are doing or are going through the motions for just for money. . . another way of looking at it is whether or not the escort is genuinely focused on the client and serving his needs, as with any "service" professional.

 

This got me to thinking that teaching is very similar. Is one really there for the student, really focused on him or her; or just going through the motions; or, perhaps, somewhere in between? I realized, to my chagrin, that lately I have been doing a lot more of going through the motions than really being there and fully engaged with them, not really focusing on my students, not giving anywhere near 100%.

 

It snapped me out of it--asking myself if the experience my students are having with me is similar to my most recent, only partially satisfying, escort encounter. I started teaching a LOT better, I think (at least more enthusiastically). I just wonder what my students would think if they knew that during their lessons I am asking myself if I was an escort and they were a client, would they feel they were really having a worthwhile experience? (LOL)

 

I just KNEW there was some sort of karma (using the term loosely) going on here. Actually, if the $$ I spent on that escort was all it took to wake me up, it was worth it!

 

--Drummer

[Alex Berlanti]

Hi Drummer,

 

As for myself I really enjoy what I do so I don't have to lie when someone asks me that question. But I have found that a lot of boys don't like this line of work and they are either and or new to this or trying to make ends meet for school and only do it part time etc. But if I was to hire an escort I wouldn't ask the question do you enjoy what you do. But it's not that difficult to tell when one does enjoy their work. Thank God for this site.

 

PS. The only dumb question was the one that never got asked.

 

Best Wishes.

 

Alex Berlanti

 

alexberlantixxx@cox.net

 

http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/alexberlantiwichita.html