Alain Delon asks to undergo assisted suicide and writes a farewell message

[OCClient]

Did he intend for his letter to receive widespread publicity?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, nycman said:

And which I find highly humane. 

Thankfully there is room enough in today’s world for both opinions.

Again, in my opinion…..we treat dogs better.

Well, everyone's entitled to his own opinion. Most physicians agree with mine. A dog cannot take his own life. A person can--and I see no reason to ask another person to do the deed, much less a physician whose life should be dedicated to prolonging and improving life. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with a physician prescribing meds for a person to take to end that person's life. I'm really uncomfortable with the physician being the one to shove those medications into a patient. 

[+ WilliamM]

9 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Well, everyone's entitled to his own opinion. Most physicians agree with mine. A dog cannot take his own life. A person can--and I see no reason to ask another person to do the deed, much less a physician whose life should be dedicated to prolonging and improving life. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with a physician prescribing meds for a person to take to end that person's life. I'm really uncomfortable with the physician being the one to shove those medications into a patient. 

Good to know most physicians agree with you, but it is irrelevant in Mr. Delon's situation. Thankfully

[Walker1]

It is very sad. If you are terminally ill, I am ok. But I shudder to think of 18+ years old being allowed to go that route. At that age very small things appear to be insurmountable odds  -a love failure or not getting the right promotion or other things. I myself have thought of ending it all over what seems laughable issues now. I ended up having kids and a family . It should be reserved to the terminally ill-and that includes the young. But other causes should involve a lot of counselling and allowed in extreme cases. Now people commit suicide all the time-so it is not going to stop them-but ideally we should help them on-not encourage them to commit suicide. Now in cases where they are terminally ill and doing it to end the pain and go out in a dignified manner-that is fine.

[CuriousByNature]

15 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Ugh, yuck! You honestly don't feel it's not only creepy but in extraordinarily bad taste for a charitable organization who's a major beneficiary in a person's will or trust to be "celebrating" that person's upcoming suicide? I find this practice loathsome, and feel this should probably be illegal. When there are laws allowing for physician-assisted suicide, the laws almost always state that anyone who stands to financially benefit from the person's death cannot be involved in the process, and they also specify that the person can bow out at the last minute if the person wishes. A kind of ceremony like this (with a "standing ovation") puts pressure on the soon-to-be decedent to carry through the process, and I find it morally reprehensible. How would you feel if your mother had announced that she intended to commit suicide, and you heard that a beneficiary charitable organization was holding a ceremony for her to applaud her decision? I definitely know how I would feel. 

My mother had advanced dementia in her final years, and there were many buzzards flying around her as her dementia progressed. Even as she didn't know day from night, charitable organizations, who never cared about her previously, were eager to tell her what a wonderful person she was. Had my mother told me she was considering suicide, I'd have a long talk with her, and probably try to see if there were other alternatives to her decision. If she had been dead-set on her decision, I suppose I would have to have accepted it, but I certainly wouldn't be applauding it--I'd be crying and hugging her, telling her how much I'd miss her. 

I agree it would be quite creepy if the organization was celebrating in anticipation of receiving a large inheritance from someone about to commit suicide.  But I think it might be an assumption to think that was the case.  She was an elderly woman who was terminally ill.  Her plans may not have been known, though perhaps given her condition it was thought she wouldn't have that much time before passing.  The organization may have realized there might not be much time to show her the appreciation they wanted to, whether she had a matter of days or weeks left.   While it may be safe to assume she would leave a bequest to the organization, it seems that the organization may have wanted her to feel loved and appreciated for the support she had already given through the years.

[Luv2play]

27 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

I agree it would be quite creepy if the organization was celebrating in anticipation of receiving a large inheritance from someone about to commit suicide.  But I think it might be an assumption to think that was the case.  She was an elderly woman who was terminally ill.  Her plans may not have been known, though perhaps given her condition it was thought she wouldn't have that much time before passing.  The organization may have realized there might not be much time to show her the appreciation they wanted to, whether she had a matter of days or weeks left.   While it may be safe to assume she would leave a bequest to the organization, it seems that the organization may have wanted her to feel loved and appreciated for the support she had already given through the years.

You got it dead right. The guy with the twisted mind got it dead wrong. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.

[+ FrankR]

6 hours ago, Walker1 said:

It is very sad. If you are terminally ill, I am ok. But I shudder to think of 18+ years old being allowed to go that route. At that age very small things appear to be insurmountable odds  -a love failure or not getting the right promotion or other things. I myself have thought of ending it all over what seems laughable issues now. I ended up having kids and a family . It should be reserved to the terminally ill-and that includes the young. But other causes should involve a lot of counselling and allowed in extreme cases. Now people commit suicide all the time-so it is not going to stop them-but ideally we should help them on-not encourage them to commit suicide. Now in cases where they are terminally ill and doing it to end the pain and go out in a dignified manner-that is fine.

I get what you are saying - you clearly have strong opinions on the matter.  The idea of required counseling has a lot of merit. So does the idea that immaturity should be part of the equation. 

It does seem a bit disingenuous to me, for people who value freedom as much as we do here in the USA, to determine what somebody can or cannot do with their life.  Land of the free, home of the brave needs to mean something, and yes, it cuts both ways - freedom in how to live and how to die.  Will there be abuse?  Surely - freedom for the wolves inevitably means death to the sheep. 

 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

You got it dead right. The guy with the twisted mind got it dead wrong. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.

You said "Three nights before her chosen time, she attended a final night of theatre..". Do you mean to tell me that it was just a coincidence, and that the theater had no idea of her plans? I find that a little difficult to believe, and the implication of your post was that this was part of a grand farewell plan. Also, you said "Won't bother responding further." If you lied about that, about what else are you not being upfront?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Unicorn

[Rod Hagen]

They sure chose him for some remarkable movies.  

[Rudynate]

On 4/2/2022 at 12:12 PM, foxy said:

Thinking back to my post about my friend’s dog who was given an injection by her vet I wonder what it was? Her dog just fell asleep and died painlessly in about 5 minutes. If it works for dogs I assume it would work for humans also. I guess in certain cases it could be done without the aid of a physician.

And on another note. Many people might accept euthanasia if a person had an incurable disease and was in terrible physical pain. 
But what about mental anguish? Severe depression, I believe, is in many ways the most terrible disease. One could argue that with therapy and possibly the right combination of antidepressants depression can be alleviated if not cured. Yet I’ve known a number of people who after many years of therapy and various antidepressants are still suffering. 
I suppose one can also argue that a severely depressed person is not capable of making such a serious decision to end their life. 
So who gets to decide? Personally I’d rather it was my decision.

My niece is a veterinarian.  They call the stuff they use to euthanize animals "pink juice." It is always pink, but the formulation is different from manufacturer to manfacturer.  I have had three cats put down and each time, I was with them holding them.  The stuff is almost instantaneous - the animal stops breathing before the vet finishes the injection.  They almost always use a sedative before they give the pink juice.  It breaks my heart every time I have to euthanize a pet. 

Germane to this thread, there are other uses for pink juice.  MY niece's partner, a young man with a wife and young child used pink juice to take his own life.  He was found lying in bed with his open bible in his lap.  Apparently, there is a high rate of suicide among veterinarians.  My niece is probably better off without him.  She is a veterinary radiologist and her specialty is ultrasound diagnosis.  She has a van staffed with several employees and they drive from one practice to another imaging their patients.    She's very successful. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Rudynate
typos

[Rudynate]

On 4/2/2022 at 11:44 AM, Luv2play said:

I've never asked about the details. A dear friend of mine had terminal cancer  at the age of 84 several years ago. She was a very wealthy woman and always did everything with great style. 

Even her departure was classy. Three nights before her chosen time, she attended a final night of theatre, although she was obviously struggling.  When I held her hands to say goodbye, all she said was my name and "its the end of the road".

The director of the theatre presented her with a bouquet of flowers and she received a standing ovation from the audience. She and her family had supported the theatre since its inception. She had always lived her life on her own terms. And that's the way she died.

A friend of a friend actually did something similar.  She was in Oregon and had a terminal cancer.  I thought the whole thing sounded creepy.  The day of her death, she threw a large party.  She apparently loved dancing and make a big deal out of having last dances with many of her friends.  Then, at the appointed time, she swallowed the cocktail and in 15 minutes or so was no more.  She died with her guests present.

Another friend of a friend also committed physician-assisted suicide here in California.  He was in his early 80's, had end-stage kidney disease and was apparently in a lot of pain.  He had a few good friends with him, swallowed the cocktail and within 15-20 minutes was gone.

17 hours ago, WilliamM said:

My mom was honest with me in saying she lived too long as she approached her late 80s. She died at almost 92. So if she considered assisted suicide, I would honor her choice.

My  mom greatly missed her seven older  brothers and sisters. 

Back when people with AIDS frequently took their own lives, they often did it by taking a massive overdose of liquid morphine and putting a plastic bag over their heads.  A friend, who was very ill and may have only had months to live asked me if I would help him.  I told him I couldn't - that I respected his choice but couldn't be involved.   He was furious with me - we didn't speak for months.    Shortly after that, protease inhibitors became available, he started on them and is alive and well today.  I once asked him if he wasn't glad that I had refused to help him.  He wouldn't answer.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Rudynate

[CuriousByNature]

5 hours ago, Unicorn said:

You said "Three nights before her chosen time, she attended a final night of theatre..". Do you mean to tell me that it was just a coincidence, and that the theater had no idea of her plans? I find that a little difficult to believe, and the implication of your post was that this was part of a grand farewell plan. Also, you said "Won't bother responding further." If you lied about that, about what else are you not being upfront?

Someone within her circle may have communicated that she only had days left, or she may have told the theatre organizer that she was going to be euthanized.  It's all assumptions on our part.  Regardless, the response of the theatre doesn't have to be seen as something creepy, but rather, as something to honour a much-appreciated patron while they were still able to.   

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Rudynate said:

...  A friend, who was very ill and may have only had months to live asked me if I would help him.  I told him I couldn't - that I respected his choice but couldn't be involved.. he.. is alive and well today....

It sounds like your friend's request was a cry for help, and thank God you responded with care in your heart. If he'd really wanted to off himself, he didn't need you, but you showed him you cared about him so he's alive today. He may be a bit embarrassed by the episode, but at least he's alive and well. Probably no need to keep bringing it up. I suspect he really admires you and is grateful for your response.

The Oregon friend who offed herself at a party to which she invited her unsuspecting "friends" sounds like the most passive-aggressive person imaginable. I guess she wanted to make an impression at the cost of potentially traumatizing her "friends." 

I most respect the friend with end-stage renal disease, who was in a great deal of pain, and self-administered a lethal cocktail with friends present, who were aware of what was going on. Much more classy and sensitive than that Oregon lady. 

[+ WilliamM]

In 2000, a Friend's dad told him he was about to commit suicide. He asked his son to drive the three hours to his house the next day.

When the son arrived the next day his dad had botched the suicide and was in great pain, but still alive.

A. My friend admitted his dad was a dominant asshole. And thought only of himself.

B. Still if his son had been there, he might have saved his dad's life. 

C.  But ultimately it was his dad's decision and he clearly didn't pick assisted suicide, which would have been the better decision.

[+ WilliamM]

On 4/2/2022 at 8:34 PM, Unicorn said:

Ugh, yuck! You honestly don't feel it's not only creepy but in extraordinarily bad taste for a charitable organization who's a major beneficiary in a person's will or trust to be "celebrating" that person's upcoming suicide? I find this practice loathsome, and feel this should probably be illegal. When there are laws allowing for physician-assisted suicide, the laws almost always state that anyone who stands to financially benefit from the person's death cannot be involved in the process, and they also specify that the person can bow out at the last minute if the person wishes. A kind of ceremony like this (with a "standing ovation") puts pressure on the soon-to-be decedent to carry through the process, and I find it morally reprehensible. How would you feel if your mother had announced that she intended to commit suicide, and you heard that a beneficiary charitable organization was holding a ceremony for her to applaud her decision? I definitely know how I would feel. 

My mother had advanced dementia in her final years, and there were many buzzards flying around her as her dementia progressed. Even as she didn't know day from night, charitable organizations, who never cared about her previously, were eager to tell her what a wonderful person she was. Had my mother told me she was considering suicide, I'd have a long talk with her, and probably try to see if there were other alternatives to her decision. If she had been dead-set on her decision, I suppose I would have to have accepted it, but I certainly wouldn't be applauding it--I'd be crying and hugging her, telling her how much I'd miss her. 

Let's hope you would have respected her decision and leave the crying until she passed away .

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WilliamM said:

Let's hope you would have respected her decision and leave the crying until she passed away .

My main issue was not in her decision, but in the theater group's. An upcoming suicide is not something to celebrate, especially by an organization that stands to benefit substantially from said suicide. If I were related to her, I'd be livid. 

[+ WilliamM]

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

My main issue was not in her decision, but in the theater group's. An upcoming suicide is not something to celebrate, especially by an organization that stands to benefit substantially from said suicide. If I were related to her, I'd be livid. 

There are many other things in life to celebrate besides money.

[+ SundayZip]

It seems to me that, when a physician in a state that has legalized "death with dignity" turns away a terminal patient for asking for help, the physician is acting as though they are morally superior to the patient. The physician is also deciding that it's okay for the patient to die a slow, difficult, and potentially painful death. I don't see how this is in the best interest of the patient or improving life. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by SundayZip

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, SundayZip said:

It seems to me that, when a physician in a state that has legalized "death with dignity" turns away a terminal patient for asking for help, the physician is acting as though they are morally superior to the patient. The physician is also deciding that it's okay for the patient to die a slow, difficult, and potentially painful death. I don't see how this is in the best interest of the patient or improving life. 

It isn't something that the physician signed on for at the beginning of his/her career.  Also, physicians all the time decline to provide treatments requested by patients that the physician believes are not in the patient's best interest.  How is assisted suicide any different.  I have accepted the fact of assisted suicide, but, boy, do I not like it.

[+ WilliamM]

21 hours ago, Unicorn said:

You said "Three nights before her chosen time, she attended a final night of theatre..". Do you mean to tell me that it was just a coincidence, and that the theater had no idea of her plans? I find that a little difficult to believe, and the implication of your post was that this was part of a grand farewell plan. Also, you said "Won't bother responding further." If you lied about that, about what else are you not being upfront?

What an usual response. Many people are kind, without a monetary agenda.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WilliamM said:

What an usual response. Many people are kind, without a monetary agenda.

The theater group was only being "kind" with a specific goal in mind. In general, nothing wrong with a charity showing appreciation (UCLA periodically invites me to meals and other events because I've been generous with them), but doing this to encourage someone to go through with a suicide I find distasteful or morally abhorrent. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, SundayZip said:

It seems to me that, when a physician in a state that has legalized "death with dignity" turns away a terminal patient for asking for help, the physician is acting as though they are morally superior to the patient. The physician is also deciding that it's okay for the patient to die a slow, difficult, and potentially painful death. I don't see how this is in the best interest of the patient or improving life. 

If a patient were to come up to me (and most physicians) requesting medications to end their life, I would spend time exploring their situation, and offering alternatives. If the patient were still dead-set on his plan, I would refer him to another physician or nurse practitioner who'd be willing to assist the patient with suicide. It's outrageous to suggest that a physician can be forced to assist a patient with suicide--let alone the horrid way in which Canada apparently does it: the physician actively kills the patient. Most physicians won't do this, though there are some who will, and the majority can refer the patients to Dr. Death if the patient has been offered alternatives, and refuses them. 

I would add that you're wrong if you think that patients have to suffer through "slow,  difficult, painful" deaths. I have referred many patients to hospice in my day (both of my parents, also), and hospice provides quiet, peaceful deaths for these people. Strangely and unexpectedly, patients enrolled in hospice tend to live longer than patients not so enrolled, though that's obviously not the goal of hospice. 

[+ WilliamM]

@Unicorn

My uncle committed suicide in the 1950s; my mom's sister's husband 

Perhaps he had cancer.

While he left my aunt with very little money: they owned a fish market in Largo, Florida, she still greatly loved homfor the rest of her life  (to around 1984,,) and never remarried.

My mom represented her family at the funeral - she frew from Boston to Tampa, and had to change planes several times. Her many older siblings had never flown in the early 1950s.

[+ WilliamM]

2 hours ago, Unicorn said:

If a patient were to come up to me (and most physicians) requesting medications to end their life, I would spend time exploring their situation, and offering alternatives. If the patient were still dead-set on his plan, I would refer him to another physician or nurse practitioner who'd be willing to assist the patient with suicide. It's outrageous to suggest that a physician can be forced to assist a patient with suicide--let alone the horrid way in which Canada apparently does it: the physician actively kills the patient. Most physicians won't do this, though there are some who will, and the majority can refer the patients to Dr. Death if the patient has been offered alternatives, and refuses them. 

I would add that you're wrong if you think that patients have to suffer through "slow,  difficult, painful" deaths. I have referred many patients to hospice in my day (both of my parents, also), and hospice provides quiet, peaceful deaths for these people. Strangely and unexpectedly, patients enrolled in hospice tend to live longer than patients not so enrolled, though that's obviously not the goal of hospice. 

"and most physicians"

Let's hope younger physiaans have more open minded professors in college and medical school.

I met a pre med student when I audited literature courses at the University of  Pennsylvania. He said to me "image just reading interesting books in a course. So wonderful."

Not a great student, but a star socially.

He is now a wonderful shrink in Chicago.

[Luv2play]

On 4/3/2022 at 12:48 PM, Luv2play said:

You got it dead right. The guy with the twisted mind got it dead wrong. Thanks for putting it so eloquently.

I'm not responding to Mr Twisted Mind's various posts following my post saying you were totally right about the theatre company not being aware at the time of her last public appearance that this lady was going to choose medical assisting dying. We only became aware at her funeral. All we knew at the theatre performance is that she had only a matter of days or weeks to live as she was suffering from inoperable and terminal cancer.

Despite my saying he was totally wrong in his assumptions and that you had it dead right, he has gone on repeatedly to vilify the theatre company, the audience, Canadian legislation surrounding MAID and physicians who support the law.

While assisted dying providions in Canada have onlt been in effect a few years and have already been modified by the government to correct some flaws in the first bill as a result of court challenges, the evidence is that they are gaining increased acceptance over time and more people are resorting to them.