Jump to content

History and Young Male Lovers


Karl-G
This topic is 1210 days old and is no longer open for new replies.  Replies are automatically disabled after two years of inactivity.  Please create a new topic instead of posting here.  

Recommended Posts

We all know that the great love of Alexander the Great's life was Antinuous, a youth from Turkey. Hundreds of statues of the young man are in museums all over the world.

 

Today's NYTimes has a review of a very famous memoir, the "Babur Nama." Babur (1483-1530) was a descendant of Genghis Khan and a warlord from Central Asia who invaded India and founded the Mughal dynasty. He kept a record of his life, now known as “The Babur Nama.” Copies of it were illustrated by the greatest artists in illuminated manuscripts over the centuries and are some of the greatest treasures of Indian art.

 

In it Babur admits to falling so heavily in love with a boy that “to look straight at him or to put words together was impossible.” Lost in his swimming emotions, “like the madmen, I used to wander alone over hill and plain.” Babur had wives and other women, but he also had a young man with whom he was deeply in love.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all know that the great love of Alexander the Great's life was Antinuous, a youth from Turkey....

 

I've always been interested in Alexander. Now I'll have to look deeper into Antinuous.

 

Antinous (abt 111-130 AD) I believe is more commonly associated with the Roman Emperor Hadrian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinous

 

Alexander’s great “love” was Hephaistion whom he knew from childhood.

 

Bagoas (the Younger) was the courtier of Darius and, later, Alexander the Great. The historical novel “The Persian Boy” by Mary Renault is an easy fun read. Oliver Stone’s movie “Alexander” has some scenes involving Hephaistion and Bagoas. I would suggest Stone’s third version “Alexander Revisited - The Final Cut” as the best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagoas_(courtier)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Julius Caesar was rumored to have been the lover of King Nicomedes IV in his youth, a rumor that was used against him frequently throughout his life. The scandal for the Romans was more that he was reportedly the receptive partner, sometimes being called the Queen of Bithynia. He was even taunted with it during his Gallic triumph. It would have been less scandalous if he considered the dominant partner, but it would have been unlikely given he was in his 20s and younger than the king.

 

The sexual fluidity of the ancients is fascinating. Unfortunately, these historical relationships where the partners were peers socially were often the exception. The youth was more often at a complete disadvantage due to age and social status, and would suffer greatly if they resisted their patron's interest. It was acceptable according to the mores of the time and place, but it was certainly still exploitation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thomas Mann, "Death in Venice" and " Buddenbrooks."

 

Mann received a Nobel Prize In Literature.

 

And a German author who left when Hitler took over. He lived then in the United States and Switzerland, as a leader against Fascists.

 

Best novel? Probably "The Magic Mountain," although "Buddenbrooks" and his short stories are mentioned in his Nobel citation in Stockholm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would have been less scandalous if he considered the dominant partner, but it would have been unlikely given he was in his 20s and younger than the king.

 

The sexual fluidity of the ancients is fascinating. Unfortunately, these historical relationships where the partners were peers socially were often the exception. The youth was more often at a complete disadvantage due to age and social status, and would suffer greatly if they resisted their patron's interest. It was acceptable according to the mores of the time and place, but it was certainly still exploitation.

 

That's my understanding from what I've read (and I love ancient history, whether it involves sex or not). It was OK in Greece in Rome for a man to be the top in M2M sex, but scandalous to be the bottom, so the bottoms were either slaves or young men. But it was also sex-only. Greece, Rome, Persia, etc. might tolerate gay sex, but not gay marriage. That's 21st century stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

....It was acceptable according to the mores of the time and place, but it was certainly still exploitation.

 

Human nature being what it is it’s quite likely there was exploitation. However, the societal norms of that era were much different than those of today.

 

Same sex relationships were common in the ancient world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology

 

In ancient Greece (and Rome) pederasty and bisexuality involving older (the erastes) and younger (eromenos) males were very much a part of the periods lifestyle. It played a major role in military preparation of male youth. Especially those from the aristocratic class to educate, develop leadership skills and strengthen warrior and military unit cohesiveness. Entire elite military units were formed around the “brotherhood bond” of pederasty relationships. These individuals trained together from mid-childhood into early adulthood. It was the responsibility of the erastes to ensure his eromenos had the skills necessary to win at war. Sexual aspects of the relationship among this warrior class were secondary and likely more intercrural to avoid “revenge” issues on the battlefield. The idea was to teach - not degrade. All bets were off for those who were slaves or non-citizens.

 

Good read on ancient Greek Pederasty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

 

Ancient Rome:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome

 

Getting back to the OP’s initial post about Alexander - check out

Personal relationships of Alexander the Great:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_relationships_of_Alexander_the_Great

 

and intercrural sex. Speculation - but this may have been a more likely “love relationship” between Alexander and Hephaestion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercrural_sex

 

If the 1972 novel by Mary Renault (“The Persian Boy”) has any real basis then Bagoas (a eunuch) was trained from late boyhood (abt 11?) in the court of Darius III in the arts of courtiership. Upon the defeat of Darius, Bagoas became a faithful courtier and servant to Alexander.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Persian_Boy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...