Another bad review.

[Guest dandday]

Another bad review today, another client bashing, AND WE ALL WONDER WHY CLIENTS ARE HESITANT TO WRITE A BAD REVIEW?

 

There has to be a better way. First we have Lyle in Tampa and now Casey in Chicago. A client writes a bad review of an escort with good reviews only to be bashed and made to look like a fool not only by the escort, but here on this board.

 

The escort is providing a service to a customer. In my business, the CUSTOMER is always right, even if he is an asshole, OR I WOULD NOT BE IN BUSINESS VERY LONG! What has happened to customer service here? WHY SHOULD THE ESCORT GET THE LAST WORD ON THE SUBJECT? The client should get to respond to how the escorts reply to the charges. It might suprise you and the client may understand what caused the problem and retract the bad review.

 

It would seem an escort may provide any reason or explanition he feels will make the client at fault for the bad experience, and since he gets the last word on the subject, the client is left looking like a fool that is unable to follow directions, or knocks on the wrong door, etc.

 

If the escort knew he did not get the last word, we may get closer to the truth on a bad experience. In return all who have had a bad experience with an escort, myself included, would feel more comfortable writting a bad review.

[Guest gardener]

biguyinbaltimore, are you a reader of these Message Boards? If so, let us hear from you.

[MiamiLooker]

It's interesting that in Kyle's response he doesn't dispute the allegations about the cell phone nor the laptop computer. In Casey's response he doesn't dispute the allegation that he hasn't answered biguy's emails....

[Guest N]

Excellent topic!

 

I have hesitated to write bad reviews for just this reason.

 

After initiating another subject last week, I decided to turn in a less than flattering review of a very unenjoyable visit with one of the more popular escorts on this site.

 

It's going to be interesting to see just how badly I will be "bashed" when it is run.

 

The only thing to remember is that this forum IS available for responding.

 

N

[Guest Nice Guy]

OK, I understand the thing about not being able to respond to the escorts response. However, I did respond to Hooboy, and he edited the escorts comments. Things not relevent to the review. BUT I do agree, if we had a chance to elaborate on the response,,, that would be nice. Actually that would be great. But how many people who read the reviews actually read the message boards? Let let the escorts review US. It might boost our egos too, or cut us down a peg. All sides could use a little fresh air and day light.

NG

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

dandday,

 

I appreciate where you are coming from but...

 

As one who has written a bad review, I had some trepidation about doing it realizing that I was setting myself up for a 'trashing' by the escort response -- a concern not unfounded as it turned out. But this site only works if we send in reviews -- the bad as well as the good. So I sent it in. Knowing the score -- that he would have the final shot, I took pains to write an accurate, complete account trying to anticipate the probable response. For the most part I did OK I think, only one point I would have elaborated on in hindsight.

 

But even if I hadn't fared as well, credibility (or lack of) for any of us is not established by a single measurement. We establish that after some track record -- the same with escorts. In my case I would have liked a second shot to answer the rebuttal, but where is this to end (see next para.). If I had appreciated the boards at that time I would have posted a comment on the rebuttal there. (NG, I think many people read the boards but even more would if they knew the content scope. I certainly didn't unitl I stumbled into them one day. Maybe even took more than one stumble. It might be helpful to have a little orientation page to this site for newbies.)

 

I am OK with the escort having the last word because some one has to have it and because they have more on the line than we clients do. At worst we get bruised egos while escorts get forced retirement or at least a drop off in business and income -- that's a real penalty. And because of this disparity in penalty andthe ease with which a disgruntled client (or just a sick mind) could 'do a job on the escort' we should IMHO weigh in on this in favor of the escort. If he is truly a bad package it will become known (if we write the reviews!!). We have several examples of this (e.g. Nick/Atlanta now of Orlando). Whereas, to confirm a bad client (reviewer) would require several escort rebuttals (an unlikely eventuality) andthen what is his loss -- credibility? That is easily erased by a simple change of identity, because in the end the client has his anonymity.

 

Your concern that clients may not submit reviews for fear of being trashed is valid, but some also fear submitting any review because of potential visibility even though we are anonymous (I certainly did for a while). We have to learn to over come both of these concerns if this site is to work. And we have to make sure that we don't provide too comfortable a platform for disgruntled clents to carry out vendettas that result in serious repercussions for escorts. After all, we clients and escorts are in this together, aren't we?

[Guest Nice Guy]

Tampa... your points are well taken. And while an escort can have a name and location change, they can't just dissapear. I don't know the other client's general circumstances, but I am lucky. I don't care who knows who I am in "Real Life" I own my Company, I am NOT at the mercy of circumstance. But I will tell you I see a lot of different guys from around the country. And,Doll they talk! I don't tell, however. But I will tell you this, They know us(clients) better than you think. The bottom line is WE have a direct impact on their earning ability. They are Very aware of that. So, like you say. Review and review fairly. If they can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. They know who the good clients are and want to keep them happy. They also know a bad egg can hurt them all. But some of us guys just won't learn. We have a huge varity of choices. So keep hunting, because when you find the right ones... it's heaven and fun.

THe competition for our Buck is really stiff and we should submit reviews truthfully. The escorts know which clients have an ax to grind and who are fair and even FUN. And I have found out, that even though they are guarded in keeping their regulars... they don't mind giving you a "tip" on who's hot and who's not. Because they know and they are confident in who they are. I feel sorry for the first timers. It is hit and miss unless they use the reviews and good judgement. But it is kind of a "wright of passage", so to speak. And we ALL learn from our experiences... that is just life.

NG

[Guest continental]

Last Word

 

If two people tell stories that contradict each other and one has something to gain financially by his actions but the other doesn't, who is more likely to be lying? Why should the one more likely to be lying get the "last word." That doesn't make sense.

 

I've tried a couple of escorts who have received positive reviews here and haven't found them to be all that great, so for me the usefulness of this site is in knowing whom to avoid. The negative reviews are more important to me than the positive ones.

[+ Charlie]

RE: Last Word

 

I agree that I am much more interested in negative reviews, since they are more likely to reveal a pattern of behavior than the positive reviews, which often only let me know that the reviewer enjoyed himself on that particular occasion. However, part of the interest in the negative reviews is that they tend to be much more specific than the the positive ones; a positive review that tells me details about an escort and his activities is more useful than one that simply gushes about how goodlooking, charming, sensitive, etc., he was.

 

As for who gets the last word, I would hate to see the reviews get to be like some of these threads, with endless exchanges between two people that resolve nothing. If a client thinks an escort's response is grossly inaccurate or unfair, he should email Hooboy and let him decide whether a rebuttal is justified.

[Bilbo]

RE: Last Word

 

I used to write theatrical and other arts criticism for a small gay newspaper, years ago, and I can tell you that a negative review if it is done fairly and in some detail will also sell an experience as well as warn some people off. And vice versa for good reviews. We're not all looking for the same things and something you mention one way or another might be a flag in the other direction for me.

[Guest paulnyc]

RE: Last Word

 

I wrote a negative review of one of the top ten escorts of last year and it was completely truthful. He wrote a rebuttal that was full of lies and which turned into a personal attack on me. I decided that I didn't need that kind of abuse again; so I decided to keep my negative as well as positive experiences to myself. I do, however, enjoy reading the message board.

[Guest Tex]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-00 AT 09:25PM (EST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-00 AT 09:24 PM (EST)

 

LAST EDITED ON Sep-02-00 AT 09:24 PM (EST)

 

I'm surprised there has not been discussion about writing a bad review and it possibly getting you on Matt Adams' client black-list. I only suspect it might happen - wonder if anyone else has comments or input?

 

For the record, I think the list is necessary and well intended, but easily subject to error. I have nothing against Mr. Adams, but just as some of us can't accept that they aren't all perfect escorts, he needs to realize that not all clients can be perfect. Hooboy has gone beyond the call of duty with his extra attempts at making things fair on this board. Show your appreciation by sending him a donation. (No, I don't know Hoo personally, but he's obviously more patient than I could ever be.)

[Guest cleverock]

Sometimes it's the other clients that are a problem

 

Sometimes it's the other clients that are a problem. I once was chided for not having had a "wonderful" time with a popular escort here. Sorry, I wan't motivated to kiss the escort's ass (figuratively or otherwise). In some ways, I am surprised when an escort has 10-15 reviews and not one of them is lukewarm or negative. An escort can't click with everyone andlike the rest of us, they can have problems in their lives which can get in the way of giving even a reasonable client a good time. I agree with Bilbo that detail adds credibility regardless of whether the review is positive or negative. Also when the escort answers with a character- questionning screed, his credibility is at least as questionable as the reviewer's.

[Matt_Vancouver]

RE: Sometimes it's the other clients that are a problem

 

I tend to agree with the last post here, people are afraid to say something bad for fear of either being ridiculed by the escort, or other posters.

If someone had a bad time, why shouldn't he have the right to express his opinion, without being bashed or made fun of, IE pompadour comment from way back when.

The whole purpose of this board, as I understand it, is to let people know where the good escorts are, but it is also to let you know where the bad ones are.

And sometimes it's just an outlet for guys to share their stories of sex and debauchery with other like minded individuals.

what the hell am I going on about.

matt

http://go.to/mattsplace

matt_escort@yahoo.com

[Guest dandday]

How refreshing it would be..........

 

How refreshing it would be to hear an escort take the blame for a bad experience. How hard would it be to admit they were having a bad day, had personal problems on their mind, has already gotten off 8 times that day(!) or they were not able to get into the client for whatever reason. Why must it always be the client at fault?

 

Any escort that would admit the TRUTH would at least in my eyes be someone I would respect for his candor and would still consider a possible choice. On the other hand, any escort that trashes the client after a bad review would be a definate no no with me.

[HooBoy]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

I cannot believe it when I see some escorts responding with vitriolic, hateful comments about the person who hired them.

 

Personally, it tells me a lot about the escort.

 

Others apologize and try to make amends.

 

That's one of the reason’s why they have the last word.

 

As I have said a zillion times, its ultimately up to you who you are going to spend your money for time. You cannot blame this site or the reviews here. If you don't have your act together enough to assimilate a set of questions or requirements - or you foolishly hire someone who has never been reviewed here, or recklessly employ someone who has nothing but negative reviews - then you get the spoils.

 

I am the first to admit there is a lot of fiction here, but if you're smart and lucky, you'll land a good catch and you can share it with us. And soon you'll have a reputation for being a credible person and help to flush the bad apples out of the barrell.

 

The M4M Review is a work in progress. It takes time to establish credibility, but it's already happening. And for the nay Sayers, oh well, they're always going to be unhappy about any facet of their lives. Just my humble opinion.

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

[Guest allansmith63]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

I think, dandday, IMHO, that if an escort took the blame for a less than successful time with me, and spoke about it to me or apologized, I would not post a negative review, because, hey, as great a guy as I am (:-)), even I have bad days. A negative review is out there for everyone to see, and I think that people in general tend to give more weight to the negative reviews than to the positive ones. (Particularly if the escort hasn't acknowledged the issue.) By all means, negative reviews need to be posted, but if a guy has 7 great reviews and 1 negative, I think it's fairly evident it was a bad day, so why post it? The reviews, to my way of thinking, should identify the duds, but not be character assassinations of the guys.

 

My TFTD (thought for the day)

 

A.

[Guest torjon]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

Allan, I recall expressing pretty much the same sentiment awhile back, and then got really attacked for it. When I have a really bad experience, sure I'll review it (haven't had it in my M4M days...I'm a fortunate man)....but an off-day for a decent guy is not the same thing, and I think we M4M regulars can tell the difference. Even being disappointed by a regular escort now and then is not a cause for nailing the guy. The best of them will make sure they compensate next time, assuming they care, and I did say the "best" of them. And you know, sometimes, with an escort that is a regular and also special, it's not so bad to just cuddle and kiss the hour(or so) away.

F-----G comes easy, a good cuddler (!) doesn't.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-00 AT 01:31PM (EST)[p]dandd

 

>How refreshing it would be to

>hear an escort take the

>blame for a bad experience.

>How hard would it be

>to admit they were having

>a bad day, had personal

>problems on their mind, has

>already gotten off 8 times

>that day(!) or they were

>not able to get into

>the client for whatever reason.

 

I have actually seen this happen here, although it is the exception I grant you. Don't recall the particular escort at the moment (my memory has been fading ever since I was referred to as an elder gentlemen by con69).

 

Another more recent example, although it wasn't a negative review, is Marco/Boston. He took the time to write a thoughtful response to a review by a troubled client -- Marco's response, in my view, exuded credibility as did the original review. After the review I had an opportunity to talk with Marco about the situation (although he divluged no confidences). The conversation and my experience with him confirmed my initial assessment. Even though a young man, Marco knows that, in the long run, good character repays one ten times what expediency will repay. Too bad more people, in general, have'nt stumbled across this fact of life.

 

>Any escort that would admit the

>TRUTH would at least in

>my eyes be someone I

>would respect for his candor

>and would still consider a

>possible choice.

 

Agree 100%. Their credibiity remains intact as does their worthiness for consideration.

 

 

>On the other

>hand, any escort that trashes

>the client after a bad

>review would be a definate

>no no with me.

 

I don't know what 'trashed' means here -- if it refers to one being made out a lier by an escort telling his side using a fabrication of lies and half-truths, (as happened to me and apparently paulnyc and many others I'm sure) then I agree.

Even a caustic response (even though true) raking the client over the coals says to me 'why get involved with this guy', he potentially might be trouble and there are some many others available.

 

On the other hand, Marco provides a credible counter example here too... Prior to the incident mentioned above, he was 'trashed' by a reviewer and provided a serious frank response to the incident which I found credible enough to warrant not jumping to conclusions. In light of all of his other positive reviews and his own reasoned response I saw no reason to brand him with NOT ACCEPTABLE. (This opinion was reinforced after the second response mentioned above and then again after meeting him.) (Disclaimer: I don't mean to hold Marco out as the perfect example, he just comes to my mind as an example -- we all have to make our own judgments. I have seen him once and have no plans to see him again so I have no special interest here.)

 

I have seen other examples of reasoned responses -- some which I find very credible, some of which have enough credibility for me to leave the door open on them pending additional info. (One of the responses that I found very credible was Talvin DeMachio's which had to do with client hygiene.)

 

It is amazing that many escorts feel they can just trash the client with lies and sail right along unscathed -- I know the one I reviewed did because he emailed me later to tell me this in so many words. (To his potential credit he may have gotten his act together, because he has since recieved one or two positives reviews -- if they are legit that is.) But most often the escort just does more damage to himself. In negative situations the most accurate review we clients can hope for is from the escort's own mouth. We need to read carefully and look at not only his words but his demeanor, as well.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-00 AT 12:38PM (EST)[p]Duplicate post.

[Bilbo]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

I appreciate the stickers Hoo has been putting on reviews to point out reviewers who have slowly built up a creditability with prior reviews!

[Guest Steelydan]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

I'm not sure how necessary negative reviews are. Perception, taste (or lack thereof), personal preferance, mood, and a host of other issues color our experiences with escorts. I read many favorable reviews of guys I wouldn't consider hiring. It is the accuracy and detail of reviews that help me to determine who is Mr. Right. A case in point is a controversy which has shown up in this forum several times. Columbus based escorts Michael vs. Jeff. Their styles are vastly different but both are reviewed very highly. Pick the right guy for you. We all have different expectations. If one reads reviews carefully and communicates tastes and preferances to an escort in advance of a visit, the chance of having a memorable experience is greatly enhanced.

 

While I have been tempted to write negative reviews about escorts with whom I have had a less than fullfilling experience, I have decided against it. First, for me it is almost always a case of incompatability due to my focusing too much on one detail and missing another. Obviously if a guy is a scam artist then we have an obligation to send him packing and warn others. These type of issues invariably find their way onto the Message Center forums. Here we have far more opportunity to debate issues which effect us all. An excellent example is the recent mass e-mail regarding Bryan from San Antonio. The forum has offered enough input to allow us to make an educated decision (thank you HooBoy). And I have no interest in generating the personal attacks which frequently follow negative reviews. I have plenty of stress in my life and isn't relieving stress one of the main reasons we hire escorts?

 

As far as the last word, this forum offers the final word for whoever has the most stamina (or time to waste!) And for those who haven't found the Message Center then ignorance is bliss. So I say let the escort have the last word on the review page. They often provide humor (something we can always use more of) and even occasionally reveal a sincere sensative guy in a profession which can often be grueling and even dangerous.

 

I choose to view the review page process from a "glass half full" perspective. We queers have enough adversity in our lives. Let us use the tool our esteemed HooMeister generously provides in a most positive way.

 

Steelydan

[Guest Nice Guy]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

As I have stated here before, even regulars have off days. They know it and so do we. It took a lot of guts for Matt to express his opinion in this forem. And basically side with US. Mister, that is confidence!!. But on a serious note, I have to say it is partically the client and his expectations of the "event" that can make or break the experience. I admit this,I have done it on more then one occasion. The guy did his job and there was no way he could have possibly received a positive review, if I had reviewed him.

That is my fault. Given half a chance, unless the guy is a complete jerk, he will do his job. And that brings up another point. Why do escorts with bad reviews keep getting hired and then the client submits another bad review? The client has read the reviews and still hires the jerk. For christ sake, they get what they deserve in spades. The reviews for the most part seem to be based on 1 hour sessions. How can anyone get a clear feeling for a guy? It is based solely on one quickie act with little time to relate to each other etc. Even overnights are getting hard for me. Maybe I am just getting older, but I need the time!!! Just spoiled I guess.

But I must admit, 2 of my regular sweethearts started with quickies... go figure!

NG

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: How refreshing it would be..........

 

steelydan,

 

I think your point of view is right on point!

 

IMHO...

 

Negative reviews should be limited to the 'scam artist' defined as those escorts unprepared, uable, or unwilling to live up to their obligation in the bargain. The obligation -- to perform the agreed upon activites in the agreed upon time interval for the agreed upon compensation in a professional and hopefully enthusiastic manner.

 

Reviews should not be used as punishment or retribution for a less than satisifactory experience if the escort made a reasonable attempt to hold up his part. Sometimes things just don't work out -- lack of chemistry. Nobody's fault really.

 

As has been said in this fourm countless times before -- it is encumbant on us clients to inform the escort what we expect prior to the meeting. If we don't then we have no one but ourselves to blame for resulting disappointments.

[HooBoy]

RE: Negative Reviews and how site works

 

LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-00 AT 10:25AM (EST)[p]The reason for the last word from the escorts is because so many of them have stalkers and men who prey on their lives and want to do everything they can to destroy them because they think the escort did not reciprocate love or because in their twisted minds they have decided that the life of an escort is beneath the individual they are trying to destroy.

 

I get this all the time, so I am very careful with the negative reviews. I do not want to mention names because it will only make the situation worse for some of the guys, but there are horror stories on what transpires in some of their lives--especially the escorts who have a high profile or are very popular or are porn stars.

 

On the other hand, if there is a scumbag escort like the guy in Houston that uses many names or the guy in Atlanta who moves about, or Kirk's brother in New York, whom I spoke to personally and he said that people on the internet were losers and he didn't give a shit what we wrote about him -- these are the people I have no qualms about exposing as rip-offs.

 

And then when a negative review comes in on an escort I deem well respected, I ask him what the deal is and yes, I post the review, but with sad heart, because in almost every case it was a matter of chemistry or in some cases a really awful patron.

 

Once I got a negative review about a very well known escort who had not returned an email message. Turns out his brother had just committed suicide and he was so distraught he failed to respond to any email. Fortunately, the reviewer, once I explained to him the circumstances, was kind enough to let me not post his review.

 

I am appalled when I read that some people take more pleasure in reading the negative reviews than the positive. When I hire an escort, I look for the guys with the positive reviews. I really could care less about the negative ones. Why would I go to a movie or play that has nothing but negative reviews? The same goes with escorts.

 

The one's I'm after are the guys that come into my hotel room, take my money and run.

 

It's amazing the amount of email I get from bitter, vicious, unhappy people. I just don't know how some of these escorts put up with the crap that I get, much less what they must get. And they have to take off their clothes. Fortunately, I just hit DELETE and don’t even bother.

 

I hope this helps in clearing up some of the questions about this site

 

Happy Labor Day if you're in America. :-)

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com