Too honest?

[Rudynate]

Obviously I don't know what was standard medical practice 50 years ago. It could be that time, orderlies had access to privileged medical information, and that physicians refused to answer patients' questions when queried about their prognosis. If that's the case, I apologize for my confusion. I can only say that this is very contrary to anything approaching my experience of over 30 years. These days (and for the last 30 years), if an orderly tried to access a patient's medical chart, he would probably be fired, or at the very least disciplined. Discussing a patient's prognosis would also probably result in some counseling, although this would not be considered as serious as accessing a chart without authorization. I was thinking that when I go back to work on Monday, I'd ask someone who was working in the 70s, but I don't think there are still people around working now who were working in the 70s, so I'll take your word for it. Inappropriate access to patient records, if it comes to the attention of authorities, results in minimum fines of $10,000 per occurrence. Penalties can be even more severe depending on the circumstances of the violation.

 

 

You have this reflexive tendency to make unwarranted assumptions. I never said that his providers refused to answer questions he asked them about his prognosis. In situations like this, which were commonplace, I assumed that the patient hand't asked and the professonals taking care of him hadn't initiated the conversation. I will say that it was commonplace for patients to wait until very late in the game before they asked any questions, if they did at all. It was also commonplace for patients to figure it out on there own. A lot of guys would tell me that they knew they didn't have long to live. Occasionally, there was rare doctor who initiated an appropriate conversation and didn't bullshit the patient. Occasionally, a patient would tell me,"Well, he was straight with me. Gotta respect him for that," or something like that.

 

 

I probably would have been counseled if the administration had found out about the conversation, but who would tell them? The dead patient?

[Rudynate]

I don't keep tabs of people who've been on my bad side (for the most part), but it is curious. I guess I'll probably remember for the future.

 

 

I don't keep track either, but when unpleasant interactions with a particular person are so frequent, one tends to remember them.

[+ WilliamM]

I haven't quite retired yet, but if your physician graduated from college in 1956, and is still practicing medicine, I think that's very said--no matter how much he enjoys the practice of medicine. In my opinion, anyone working in his 80s is a sad thing. Just my opinion, mind you.

 

Some people make choices that are more understanding in retrospect, or with bit more knowledge of of values and his or her personal relationships.

 

So, @Unicorn, good luck.

[instudiocity]

I haven't quite retired yet, but if your physician graduated from college in 1956, and is still practicing medicine, I think that's very said--no matter how much he enjoys the practice of medicine. In my opinion, anyone working in his 80s is a sad thing. Just my opinion, mind you.

Nothing said or sad about this guy. He's a full professor at UCLA School of Medicine, conducts 2 or 3 clinical trials over years . He's an associate dean and he just returned from 2 weeks in Paris with his wife, 4 children, 4 in-laws, and 12 grandchildren.

 

He has 8 hours of clinic time, 4 hours, two mornings a week, then is professing, consulting and writing the balance of his time.

 

He told me this week he takes 3 months away from the school each year, (I know about the rescheduled appointments to accommodate his vacation/med association and out of town consulting.) I'm pretty proud of him and I have no idea how old he is.

 

He's an encourager and he has forgotten more about my chronic condition than anyone else I've come to know on the faculty.

 

Both of my parents volunteered at non-profits into their 90's. Why should anyone GIVE away their knowledge, skills, expertise when they could earn and grow their wealth. Leaving a Legacy is not just the extra cash, but more lives enriched as well as more wealth to donate at the end of our lives. Seniors associating with people of all ages live longer and more fulfilling lives than those who choose to waste away in retirement.

Edited January 5, 2020 by instudiocity

[instudiocity]

I don't keep track either, but when unpleasant interactions with a particular person are so frequent, one tends to remember them.

After all repetition is the routine of memorization. And memorization builds wisdom.

[instudiocity]

You have this reflexive tendency to make unwarranted assumptions. I never said that his providers refused to answer questions he asked them about his prognosis. In situations like this, which were commonplace, I assumed that the patient hand't asked and the professonals taking care of him hadn't initiated the conversation. I will say that it was commonplace for patients to wait until very late in the game before they asked any questions, if they did at all. It was also commonplace for patients to figure it out on there own. A lot of guys would tell me that they knew they didn't have long to live. Occasionally, there was rare doctor who initiated an appropriate conversation and didn't bullshit the patient. Occasionally, a patient would tell me,"Well, he was straight with me. Gotta respect him for that," or something like that.

 

 

I probably would have been counseled if the administration had found out about the conversation, but who would tell them? The dead patient?

"Reflexive tendency" is that like nausea?

 

My family back three generations at least has had the practice of speaking to our terminally ill kinfolk this way, "We love you and we want you to get better and live with us longer. But we have a future and hope beyond the grave, so if you sense it is your time, please, don't suffer, don't fight, just peacefully go until we see you on the other side." Sounds harsh and stupid, but in every case (and I've buried 4 grandparents, 17 of 18 aunts and uncles, 4 of 17 cousins, and 4 second cousins. In every case, the terminally ill, even unconscious have had something to that effect spoken to them. And nearly everyone of them passed within 24 hours.

[Rudynate]

"Reflexive tendency" is that like nausea?

 

My family back three generations at least has had the practice of speaking to our terminally ill kinfolk this way, "We love you and we want you to get better and live with us longer. But we have a future and hope beyond the grave, so if you sense it is your time, please, don't suffer, don't fight, just peacefully go until we see you on the other side." Sounds harsh and stupid, but in every case (and I've buried 4 grandparents, 17 of 18 aunts and uncles, 4 of 17 cousins, and 4 second cousins. In every case, the terminally ill, even unconscious have had something to that effect spoken to them. And nearly everyone of them passed within 24 hours.

 

Not so long ago, it was seen as a kindness to lie to the terminally ill about their prognosis. Better not to burden them with the truth.

[instudiocity]

Not so long ago, it was seen as a kindness to lie to the terminally ill about their prognosis. Better not to burden them with the truth.

Maybe but my family members have always been pragmatic..

[Rudynate]

You have this reflexive tendency to make unwarranted assumptions. I never said that his providers refused to answer questions he asked them about his prognosis. In situations like this, which were commonplace, I assumed that the patient hand't asked and the professonals taking care of him hadn't initiated the conversation. I will say that it was commonplace for patients to wait until very late in the game before they asked any questions, if they did at all. It was also commonplace for patients to figure it out on there own. A lot of guys would tell me that they knew they didn't have long to live. Occasionally, there was rare doctor who initiated an appropriate conversation and didn't bullshit the patient. Occasionally, a patient would tell me,"Well, he was straight with me. Gotta respect him for that," or something like that.

 

 

I probably would have been counseled if the administration had found out about the conversation, but who would tell them? The dead patient?

 

 

So you're going to double-double check the veracity of my story. I imagine if your colleague's account differs from mine in anyway, I will go back, in your mind, to being a liar.

[loremipsum]

Maybe but my family members have always been pragmatic..

 

He was being ironic by way of referencing another member’s views (with which I do not necessarily disagree)

[+ PapaTony]

I'm a little puzzled. You weren't his doctor, or even his nurse. Wouldn't the correct response be "I would ask your doctor..."? He probably gave up hope that night. Who told you he was about to die? Were you the appropriate person to give him this death sentence?

Really? REALLY!?

There is something very wrong with you.

[Dicknharry1]

I'm now at the Admirals' Lounge in the Phoenix airport. My Colombian honey of the week and I are each going our own ways after a delightful week. He's flying to Ontario (CA) and I'm flying to Oakland. His final words of advice to me were "You can't be so good and so honest all of the time. People will take advantage of you and hurt you." He did appreciate our time together. I don't know. Obviously I've been taken advantage of, but overall so far in my life being good and honest has led to a satisfying life for myself. Do you agree that one shouldn't always try to be honest and nice? I had a great time with him. I daresay some at the resort were probably jealous...

I feel the same . What ever makes you happy

[+ WilliamM]

Really? REALLY!?

There is something very wrong with you.

 

Poor @Unicorn. He seems to never have forgetten the the rules, the procedures.

 

...to the detriment of kindness to patients

Edited January 9, 2020 by WilliamM